Lookout Landing: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:



Sports blogs for fans, by fans.
Around SBN: June USA Today / SB Nation Consensus MMA Rankings Released


So Much Fun With Numbers

When your lab isn't set up yet at your new job, you end up with a lot of free time to spend messing around with Fangraphs and spreadsheets. (And what better way to look busy in the workplace than by messing around with spreadsheets?)

I've been giving most of my attention to the new pitch frequency information on Fangraphs, so for a change today I decided to dive headfirst into the velocity data. Specifically, the fastball velocity data. I'm going to go ahead and skip the long intro and get right to the numbers, since they're easy to understand and they're all you care about anyway.

note: minimum of 60 IP

Biggest MPH Increases Since 2005:

  1. Greinke, +4.7%
  2. Chacon, +4.3%
  3. Kim, +3.0%
  4. Heilman, +2.6%
  5. Hennessey, +2.1%
  6. Guerrier, +2.0%
  7. Tejeda, +2.0%
  8. Glover, +1.9%
  9. Pineiro, +1.5%
  10. Franklin, +1.4%

Biggest MPH Decreases Since 2005:

  1. Jennings, -4.0%
  2. Davis, -3.7%
  3. Zito, -3.2%
  4. Contreras, -3.0%
  5. L Hernandez, -2.8%
  6. D Wells, -2.7%
  7. Maroth, -2.6%
  8. Wakefield, -2.5%
  9. Fossum, -2.5%
  10. Wagner, -2.4%

We can learn a few things from this. For one, it's much easier to lose velocity than to gain it. Of the ten biggest increases, seven are the result of a move to the bullpen (which, as we've known for a while, allows you to throw harder). I don't know what changes Byung-Hyun Kim, Matt Guerrier, and Robinson Tejeda have made, but they stand as the exceptions. Generally speaking, you arrive in the big leagues throwing about as hard as you ever will in your life, and spend the rest of your career gradually losing speed. In this way, it's a lot like defense. You might take a step forward or two in the Majors, but it'll almost always be small.

For two, losing velocity is bad. Look at that list of the ten biggest decreases. That's not a list on which you want to find yourself. In 2005 those ten pitchers averaged an RA of 4.39. In 2007, it was up to 5.74. Every single one of them allowed more runs.

It's not just the top ten, either. In all, there were 15 pitchers with at least 60 innings in both 2005 and 2007 who had their fastball velocities drop by 2% or more. 14 of them saw their RA's balloon (Matt Morris, Jon Garland, Daniel Cabrera, and Roger Clemens are the other four, while Jeff Francis stands as the anomaly). That's pretty convincing. This isn't an exhaustive study by any means, but there would appear to be a strong correlation between losing velocity and getting hit around. Not that this is particularly shocking, but it's still nice to see.

Curious about what lost velocity might mean for the future, I isolated the 25 guys who had the biggest percent decreases between 2005 and 2006. I then took out the pitchers who moved from the bullpen into the rotation (Loe, Madson), which left me with a group of 23. These 23 pitchers lost an average of 2.0% of their fastball speed.

2005, Average:

IP: 178
Weighted RA: 4.49
Velocity: 89.6

2006, Average:

IP: 151
Weighted RA: 5.13
Velocity: 87.8 (down 2.0%)

2007, Average:

IP: 113.2
Weighted RA: 5.41
Velocity: 87.4 (down another 0.5%)

There wasn't a post-decline rebound. I don't know what I expected to find, but there you go. On average, the 23 pitchers continued to lose velocity, and where 20 of them were able to surpass 100 Major League innings in 2005, only 12 were able to do it in 2007. I'm not going to bother researching all 23 pitchers individually, but suffice to say that a drop in velocity one year bodes poorly for future effectiveness and playing time. A lot of this presumably has to do with injuries (injuries with velocity loss as an early symptom), but that's still useful information.

Bottom line: if you're a pitcher, you don't want the zip on your fastball to go away. While some people are able to survive, for most others it means you're probably either (A) already hurt, (B) going to get hurt, or (C) caught in a decline from which escape is nigh impossible. That's bad. You think the Giants are beginning to regret handing a blank check to Barry Zito? I don't know if I should curse Bill Bavasi for having tried so hard, or kiss him for giving up.

With all that in mind, I'll leave you with this.

Biggest MPH Decreases Between 2006 and 2007:

  1. Looper, -3.7% (moved to rotation)
  2. Sowers, -3.5%
  3. Schilling, -2.9% (already hurt)
  4. Wainwright, -2.2% (moved to rotation)
  5. Wright, -2.2%
  6. McCarthy, -2.1% (already hurt)
  7. Jenks, -2.0%
  8. Gorzelanny, -2.0%
  9. Contreras, -2.0%
  10. O Hernandez, -1.9%

Felix's fastball, by the way, got faster.

0 recs | Comment 6 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

We have numbers, yes we do!
We have numbers, how about you!!

<does wave>

Sorry, got swept up in the momentum. Neat stuff.

by Matthew on Mar 18, 2008 7:33 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

O Hernandez
Has defiantly lost a step.  I'm in Florida for college ball, just went to the Mets ST  complex this morning.  He threw a simulated game against Mike Pelfrey.  Pelfrey was throwing twice the speed, Hernandez was throwing slow, wild, and was getting hit around (3 HR!) by a bunch of minor league guys

by mariners124m on Mar 18, 2008 7:52 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

he is 46 years old or whatever...
"You know, as that was coming out of my mouth, I knew that it was wrong."

by JI on Mar 18, 2008 7:56 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What about...
I'm curious what the numbers would say about someone like Moyer or a pitcher who gains a pitch to replace a sagging fastball or the new bullet in our arsenal - the knuckler.

by riscottt on Mar 18, 2008 7:59 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Moyer hasn't changed in years
and as for the latter, I imagine it would depend on the quality of the new pitch, but most people won't be able to survive if too much of their fastball goes away. That's the bread-and-butter for every non-Wakefield pitcher in baseball.

Pitchers get comfortable and figure out a way to succeed with whatever fastball they develop. When it starts to slow down, a lot of guys aren't able to adjust (or they're hurt). That's a guess of mine, anyway.

by Jeff on Mar 18, 2008 8:09 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The gift that keeps on giving
fun indeed. Couple of comments, though. I wonder if any pof the velo differences can be accounted for by moving to a new team. Different guns can give different readings, no? This would be a minority of both the plus and minus category, of course.

Also, it should be noted that the declining group of pitchers in the last part of the post was already sub par, as the average big league FB is around 91-92 I think (certainly if you count relievers). Of the pitchers who lost 2% or more from 06 to 07 I can see Jenks and Contreras as the two who could lose some and still be above average, so I'm curious to see what will happen to them. My guess is Jenks gets hit hard, unless his slider is something special, while Contreras performs like a decent 3-4.

by Mere Tantalisers on Mar 19, 2008 6:19 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

By reading a game thread of your own volition you agree to accept all liability for any and all damage done to your delicate sensibilities.
Start posting about the Mariners »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Small
Strip Club Cleared to Open Near Safeco Field
Hms_surprise_small
SBN Suggestions Thread

Recent FanPosts

Small
Want to go to tonights game in Boston?  Please?
Small
Top 5 IFA Guillermo Pimentel signs with the Mariners?
Clemente_small
OT 7/2/05-- Flag Waving, Long Weekend, 4th of July Holiday edition
Small
Open Sounders vs. Timbers gamethread
Small
Happy Canada Day
Durer2_small
Who will be heir to the King?
Eyebrows_small
OFFTOP 6/29/09 - Avoiding Work Edition
Dscn1856_small
USA vs. Brazil Game Thread
Small
Anyone meeting up in NYC?
Small
NHL Draft Open Thread

Post_icon New FanPost All FanPosts Carrot-mini


Sexy People

Hms_surprise_small Graham

Small Matthew

Small Jeff

Official Partner of Yahoo! Sports