A Reconciliation
It occurred to me earlier today that my stance on the Bedard rumor might be causing a little confusion. It's one thing to say that you don't want to give up Adam Jones as part of a package, but then to turn around and agree with Dave that you'd give up any number of other young players to land the same guy? Those two positions seem more than a little contradictory. Either a pitcher is worth a lot, or he isn't, right?
My rationalization is two-fold. For one thing, Jones has - by a fair margin - the best odds of any of our young players of turning into a solid, long-term regular. He's proven the most. Morrow has a great fastball but limited offspeed stuff and zero experience starting games professionally. Balentien still has things to work on in AAA, and will never be Jones' equal in the field. Triunfel has all the potential in the world, but he's miles away. Tillman's 19 and hasn't touched AA. Clement has to get a little better at the plate (albeit not much) while proving that he can stick behind it. Tui's still waiting on his power. And so on and so forth. There are a lot of guys with a lot of promise in this system - seriously, we're in pretty good shape - but Jones is the only one who's ready to be a good regular right now. The further away a prospect is from that point, the lower his odds of making it, and therefore the easier it is to trade him. It doesn't mean you won't go on to regret it, but your chances of wishing you never gave up that great player are lower with a package excluding Jones than they would be with a package including him.
My second reason - and I still can't decide which of these is more important - is that there comes a point at which a team is justified in overpaying for an impact player in order to better its chances of winning in the short-term. A point at which the benefit (greatly improving your immediate playoff odds) begins to outweigh the cost (all the talent you're giving up). Detroit's not a bad example. I believe that, in a situation in which they're able to keep Adam Jones, the Mariners are at or around that point. If you add Bedard to this team and keep Jones in right, they're neck and neck with the Angels in true talent, which puts them in good position. However, if you take Jones away, then you're back to being a few wins worse, because the replacements aren't as good. And in that situation I don't think you've improved your odds enough to justify the expense.
Where you stand on this trade depends primarily (but not exclusively) on (A) how highly you think of Adam Jones, and (B) where you place the threshold described in the last paragraph. That is, the location of the point at which the short-term benefit outweighs the cost. If you think a 10% chance of going to the playoffs is good enough to go all out, you've probably been bullish on this deal from the start. If your level is 50%, you're less in favor. And if you only support making a trade like this on the condition that the player you bring back makes you the Series favorite, you've presumably convinced yourself that this is completely retarded. You already know what I think.
Despite all the heated debates in so many different places, though, I know for a fact that there's one thing on which we can all agree -
This just needs to be over.
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30 comments
Comments
I am with Dave
But... I also want to keep Wlad, mainly because he is Felix' best friend and I want to keep him very happy.
I nearly said 'satisfied' but that was a little too homoerotic for me. Although given the choice, El Rey would be on the short list of men I'd go gay for.
Stop. Drinking. Now.
by hcoguy on Jan 17, 2008 10:10 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Item C
It also depends on (C) how you regard Balentien as a replacement for Jones. There is a substantial community in the Ms blogosphere that believes there the difference in value between having Balentien is RF vs Jones in RF is sufficiently small that there is little net loss in RF from dealing Jones.
Not saying I concur - just saying there are Mariners mavens who have that opinion.
by Steve Nelson on Jan 17, 2008 10:19 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I wish that were true.
by CapSea on Jan 17, 2008 10:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
To borrow a 'phrase'
Spot on, Steve! That's a very important addition...
by PositivePaul on Jan 17, 2008 10:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
After watching Jones sit in Triple A for two strai
We'd have Balentien and Bedard together for one year (2009).
by Slica on Jan 17, 2008 10:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
DOV thinks he will.
by CapSea on Jan 17, 2008 10:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
To make matters worse
Odds? Gotta be 95%.
by Slica on Jan 17, 2008 10:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Also true
However, if you're a big Balentien fan, then that would take a lot of the sting out of losing AJ long-term (although there's nothing wrong with having two cheap young outfielders instead of one).
by Jeff Sullivan on Jan 17, 2008 10:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well
I really think Bloomquist has a better chance of being our starting 3rd OFer than Balentien does next year.
On a side note, id love to keep both Wlad and Adam. Sadly, Triunfel is my main concern. Ive been watching him since he debuted. Losing him would crush me and ruin the excitement I have watching him grow. Adam Jones would crush me because he would automatically be my favorite Mariner. They LOVE trading my favorite players.
Except Jose Lopez. Figures, they keep the disappointing one.
by Slica on Jan 17, 2008 11:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I can't see the M's starting Willie, ever.
I can see Wlad starting if the FO fails to find a replacement but if they find one during the season (depending on Wlad's performance) they will use him the first chance they get.
by ThundaPC on Jan 18, 2008 8:41 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Organizational love for Willie B
Last year, despite playing for managers who value grit, hustle, and veteran presence, Wille had the fewest number of plater appearances since he went on the 25-man roster full time. It's not as if there weren't opportunities to use him - but first Hargrove and then MacLaren decided not to give him starts to rest regulars. His number of game appearances held up - so they were simply deploying him much more as an in game substitute.
I think it's also significant that in signing Miguel Cairo the Mariners said they were doing so to push Lopez. Isn't second base Willie's "natural" position? Isn't Willie more firmly entrenched and valued by the club? Wouldn't it be scarier for Lopez if he were getting pushed by a guy who is as beloved and valued by the team as Bloomquist??
IMHO - the team has looked at Willie and concluded he's a gritty utility player who can cover every position on the field except pitcher. (IIRC - Willie has been the emergency third catcher in recent seasons.) They think he's valuable in that role, but it looks to me that's the only role they see for him.
by Steve Nelson on Jan 18, 2008 12:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Good point
by Jeff Sullivan on Jan 17, 2008 10:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It would be great if it was over.
In this case, it is the cost that makes this a terrible deal, as well as the likelihood we reach the playoffs. But as far as entertainment value of those two players, 2008 will be entertaining, if nothing else.
by CapSea on Jan 17, 2008 10:20 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
hypothetically speaking
by seattlebruin on Jan 17, 2008 10:33 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Don't torment yourself
by Rollo Tomasi on Jan 17, 2008 10:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This has got to be the most analyised
by Goose on Jan 17, 2008 10:42 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I can think of a few choice words.
by CapSea on Jan 17, 2008 10:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
by Jeff Sullivan on Jan 17, 2008 10:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Just you watch the trade turn out to be
by Matthew on Jan 17, 2008 11:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I am sure
by KC on Jan 17, 2008 11:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I watched Balentien in LF
Unfortunately, I also saw Horrible Ramirez on the mound.
Anyway, Jones had an aura about him. Good vibes. He was ready for The Show. Like watching a cool combination of Clyde Drexler's body and all-star baseball skills.
Balentien looked okay in the field. Not great, but okay. He is a strong kid, a little like Jose Guillen in the field (I didn't see his arm strength, though). He flailed at a few sliders, ala Hendu, but he did hit one rocket to the deepest part of CF. That ball was crushed!
Not sure if this means anything to you guys but, for me, emotionally, Jones was mesmerizing. Vlad was just another player.
I don't want to miss out on AT LEAST six years of Jones.
by KC on Jan 17, 2008 11:32 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I think
by pdb on Jan 18, 2008 9:36 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The Mariner Factor
I think in thinking things over the one thing that kept coming to mind wasn't the value of Jones or the value of Bedard and how it went along with improving the team, but rather that the Mariners seem to have a knack of not trusting their everyday rookies, and in doing so tinkering with either their approach to mold them into Major league hitters, or giving them a short leash to be productive.
I can easily see the Mariners giving Jones the Lopez treatment, trying to get him to focus on using all the field cutting down his strength of hitting homeruns, having him drop down bunts, concentrating on "putting the ball in play" instead of striking out. I also see him being pinch hit for and getting one to two days off a week especially if he struggles early, as well as having a short leash.
I think those are the reasons why I'm ok with the trade if it happens, while Jones would have alot more value and bet better for the club in the long run, short term because of the Mariners handling of their prospects I can see Jones value for the first year or two being greatly diminished by his usage.
by MfaninAlaska on Jan 18, 2008 9:34 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I know
by Edgar for Pres on Jan 21, 2008 10:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Raul Ibanez is a bad fielder.
by CapSea on Jan 21, 2008 11:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

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