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Around SBN: Holy War Week Brings out the Worst in Fans

81-71

So in conclusion, no, the Tacoma Rainiers can't seem to pitch well against Los Angeles either.

It seems fitting that a game like this should transpire just days after my whole "beanball arguments" post. Since I made a vow not to get too involved in these things, I'll just say this - pitchers retaliating by throwing at heads is probably the most disgusting thing you'll ever see in this sport. Granted, getting drilled in the temple by a Jorge Campillo fastball would be more of a mild nuisance than anything else, like having a puppy wake you up by licking your face, and yeah, he probably didn't so much mean to hit them as he meant to give them a scare and send a message, but that kind of behavior reflects poorly on the entire team, and there's no place for it in the game. If you have to throw at a guy, throw at his back. He'll get the point without also getting a concussion.

(For the record, no, I don't think the first brushback to Vlad was intentional - it was just an inside fastball at the letters. Had it been done on purpose, then Campillo wouldn't have responded the way he did later on. I do not, however, blame Vlad for getting upset. Warnings had just been given out to both dugouts, and in the heat of the moment any inside pitch can seem like a threat. Moral of the story: if your gameplan is to pitch Vlad inside, don't follow it up with a meatball at the knees.)

Biggest Contribution: Jose Guillen, +13.9%
Biggest Suckfest: Ryan Feierabend, -38.2%
Most Important AB: Guillen double, +17.8%
Most Important Pitch: Anderson double, -20.5%
Total Contribution by Pitcher(s): -48.8%
Total Contribution by Hitters: -7.2%
Total Contribution by Opposition: +6.0%

(What is this chart?)

A lot of announcing teams out there get on my nerves. Chicago, Texas, Baltimore, Detroit, Houston, Cleveland, ESPN - for reasons spanning from blatant homerism to a complete and utter lack of attention being paid to the game on the field, I can't really stand any of these broadcasts. In my book, though, none of them can hold a candle to Physioc and Hudler's special brand of verbal pestilence. With them, it isn't about being cheerleaders, ignoring the game, or telling pointless anecdotes. No, it's about the way they seemingly take every opportunity to spread a staggering amount of misinformation. I make fun of the Angels all the time for having the least intellectual fan base on the planet, but if these are the guys from whom they're learning, is it really their fault?

Rex Hudler complimenting Raul Ibanez for playing through injuries like a professional. Steve Physioc lauding Jeff Mathis for keeping the team afloat after Napoli went down. Both of them heaping praise on Garret Anderson for being so clutch after a weak groundball double and a pop-up single in front of a deep outfield. Physioc saying that if Jered Weaver keeps hitting the same low spot with his fastball, it should be called a strike. Physioc denying that the Angels play in a pitcher's park. Hudler claiming that Lackey jumping into the mess on the field would "definitely" make the Mariner hitters afraid of him on Sunday. Both of them talking about how Maicer Izturis is a dangerous hitter, because he was fifth in the lineup, and the fifth hitter in a lineup is usually dangerous. Physioc claiming that Campillo's curveball is his best pitch. And so on and so forth. These are just the ones I can remember off the top of my head. The entire broadcast was a constant, steady stream of statements that were just factually incorrect, and it's like this every single time.

Everybody jokes about how when a bad announcer starts talking they "put the game on mute," but Physioc/Hudler really and truly make me consider watching without sound. It's the only escape. I'm generally able to look past my hatred and admire a lot of things about the Angels organization, but their announcers are a huge problem, and the more they talk, the more blown opportunities there are for the next young fan to grow up with something resembling legitimate knowledge.

Potential clinching game tomorrow. Also a potential rainout tomorrow. I've got tickets, but considering how things went down tonight, I'm not sure if I actually want them to be able to play.

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Add St. Louid to that list
just horrible- I actually do mute the games when the M's come on.

The Rockies guys too, they are the worst in the NL.

by JI on Sep 21, 2007 12:03 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

One of the St. Louis guys
sounds like he's constantly gargling water.

Marty Brennamen's constant bashing of Adam Dunn gets old, but I wish Dave would do the same thing for Richie Sexson.

Yu Bet! Cuba, si! Yanqi, NO!

by Patrick517 on Sep 21, 2007 7:33 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Rockies guys don't suck
After 7-10 beers.  You just have to be able to make fun of their A)lack of knowledge B)horribly annoying voices.

by anky on Sep 21, 2007 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Um
When the Mariners are playing the Orioles, I actually mute the announcers.

I also mute the TNA announcers. (though I still question I even watch wrestling anymore...guess I shouldnt of grown up with it...)

I mute almost all broadcasts for the Seahawks, and most with the Sonics.

I see JI does the same.

by Slica on Sep 21, 2007 12:17 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I missed an Angels/Mariners scuffle?
Damn.
These pretzels....are making me thirsty!

by Goose on Sep 21, 2007 12:53 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Listening to the Angels broadcasters tonight,
I was legitimately furious. I figured it was just me being a dick and wanting a reason to hate the Angels because they so clearly outplayed and outclassed the Mariners in this game and I was just reaching, so I'm glad to hear it wasn't just me who was throwing things at the laptop screen because of these dolts behind the microphones.

I knew we were in trouble when they said in the first inning: "The Mariners are an outstanding defensive ballclub."

I think a good chunk of fans believe their hometown announcers are pretty solid and most everyone else is the worst of all time, so I try to be pretty forgiving when MLB.tv forces me to listen to the opposing team's broadcast. Aside from the White Sox booth, no one has been more miserable to listen to this year than the Angels guys.

This was a bad week to try to go without cigarettes.

by Teej on Sep 21, 2007 2:01 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Detroit
There color guy finds ANY way he can to make the team seem like it is god. No matter what the situation is, unless they are being blown out, then he stuggles on what to say because he NEVER admits that maybe the opponents are actually a good team. He makes all their players seem like they are over powering and clutch. I hate that broadcast SO much.

Best broadcast, i hate to say it, is the Yankees on YES. That guy is just classy. He is a Homer when he needs to be but yet he points out the Yankee mistakes. And he treats the other team well, giving them credit when earned.

And my favorite part about the "fight" last night, is the camera zooming in a Guillen sprinting in. And fuck Lackey with his large mole and head.

Everytime Richie gets a hit, a small child is murdered....good thing he never gets a hit.

by shunter160 on Sep 21, 2007 5:36 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Halo's Heaven is an extention of that
This isn't news to all of you, but it is to me. I just thumbed through there for the first time and ... yeah. What's with the Panther thing?

As far as the announcers, Physioc doesn't bother me as much because he's not as loud as Hudler and kind of gets drown out because I'm so focused on how retarded Hudler sounds.

We may be in second place and out of the race, but at least we're not Angels' fans.

by jerryreeder on Sep 21, 2007 7:56 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Will Jeff get to see two hated Anaheim clubs
clinch titles before his eyes this year?  TUNE IN AND FIND OUT.

by Gomez on Sep 21, 2007 8:22 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

My favorite from Hudler
was when he pulled a McLaren and said that it wasn't Weavers fault that his pitch count was high, it was because the M's were fouling off so many pitches.  The Izturis is dangerous and the M's hitters would be afraid of Lackey were right up there as well.  

by derban on Sep 21, 2007 9:19 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Did you see Johjima on the ball at Vlads head
I think he makes one of the greatest stops in the history of catching but I don't think anyone noticed because Vlad was thinking about what to use to hurt Campillo.

If you haven't seen it watch it again.

by Fan since Rupert Jones on Sep 21, 2007 9:54 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

If we're talking about Kenji
I much prefer thinking about the face he made after the pitch that almost hit Mathis.

by Jeff on Sep 21, 2007 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jeff, I have to disagree somewhat...
to me, pointless trivia...is pointless trivia.  It doesn't matter whether there is full truth to it or not.  I think Hudler and Phsyioc are pretty good.  They are pretty fair in the game they call, giving kudos to both sides.  Sure they are homers, but no more than anyone else.

I don't think anyone would say this up there, but Seattle's crew is no better.  They are better this year, due to not having Neihaus on very much -- just a few innings for the most part.  I don't care how good he was 10 yrs ago or 20 yrs ago.  He has sucked for the past three years that I have been watching M's baseball.

To me pointless or useless info is better than someone that can't even call a game while watching it on closed circuit t.v.

by ppl4life on Sep 21, 2007 10:31 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Well
" They are better this year, due to not having Neihaus on very much -- just a few innings for the most part.  I don't care how good he was 10 yrs ago or 20 yrs ago.  He has sucked for the past three years that I have been watching M's baseball.:

I disagree.

by JI on Sep 21, 2007 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

they are better this year....
w/out rizzs appearing so much.

i don't know why ppl dislikes Niehaus so much, but he is certainly preferable to Rizzs or Sims.

Yu Bet! Cuba, si! Yanqi, NO!

by Patrick517 on Sep 21, 2007 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't like Niehaus much either
and I've been watching and listening to him forever.  Actually, I guess "don't like" is a bit harsh, but his best days are definitely behind him, and my mind boggles at the fact that he still draws a paycheck.

People routinely yowl about how stupid the team is for keeping players on past their sell-by date; I do the same thing with Niehaus.  Beloved local icon he may be, but I don't want to listen to him descend further into becoming Beloved Local Embarrassment.

Sims may not be a baseball genius, but at least he's somewhat entertaining to listen to.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Sep 21, 2007 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I hope Sims doesn't lose his youthful exuberance
going forward as he becomes more familiar with the job and the team.

Dave's days as a good play-by-play guy are clearly long gone, but the team's in the awkward position where they have to wait for him to say goodbye, since there's no way to give him the boot without sparking a PR disaster. And I imagine he wants to see the playoffs at least one more time before calling it quits. Enough awful meltdowns or throwaway seasons might be sufficient to convince him otherwise, though - you can hear in his voice that this collapse just took the wind right out of his sails.

by Jeff on Sep 21, 2007 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

This city sucks as doing it
but Dave is def. one of the top 5 Seattle people who deserve(d) to get a ring here.

by Matthew on Sep 21, 2007 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's a financial concern, not just PR
Next to the games themselves, Niehaus is the biggest asset for the M's regarding broadcasting rights.  Niehaus wanted to stop doing TV awhile ago, but FSN has insisted on having him on the TV broadcasts, hence, the new three innings only arrangement.  The M's will lose money once they lose Niehaus.  

I would not be surprised if, like many older broadcasters have done, Niehaus cuts back his number of games -- home games or west coast games only.  

by G_ on Sep 21, 2007 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have a feeling
Death is going to take Niehaus from the job, rather than Niehaus quitting.

by Gomez on Sep 21, 2007 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd still rater listen to a senile Dave
than anyone on the M's team, and nearly everyone else in baseball.

by JI on Sep 21, 2007 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It isn't pointless or useless trivia.
They're statements that are blatantly, 100% incorrect. I wouldn't have a problem if they told us things like "the Angels have used 119 different lineups this year" or "Orlando Cabrera's batting .400 with a man on first." But they don't. They tell us lies.

by Jeff on Sep 21, 2007 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

good point
and I think, to tie it into the Niehaus thing above, that's why I don't want Dave leaving anytime soon.

I watch baseball, I don't really listen to it. If I had to rely on the radio than yeah, Niehaus at this point would be annoying (but dramatic!) because of the bad eyesight. But I don't, I watch, and since pretty much no broadcaster for any team is going to tell me anything I don't already know or care to know, I'm not relying on them for information. I'd much rather just have stadium mics on TV broadcasts, but since I cannot get that, I'll settle for unobtrusive playcallers and Dave doesn't get in the way of the game.

Furthermore, Dave Niehaus is Ms baseball. That's the sort of thing you should be sentimental about instead of the Raul Ibanez/Bloomquist/aging veteran player thing (not that anyone here is).

I'm sorry, I know he irritates a lot of people, a higher percentage of them newcomers to Ms baseball, but Niehaus is invariably tied to every happy memory I've ever had with the Ms. I hope he never leaves and I hope he has the wherewithal to realize his shortcomings and stick to what he can still competently do.

by Matthew on Sep 21, 2007 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Every time this comes up, I say the same thing
Dave can read me the back of a cereal box during the game for all I care. To me, he IS the sound of baseball in Seattle.

Would the Cubs have ditched Harry Carry, even if/when his play-by-play slipped? Rizutto in NY? Vin Scully for the Dodgers? Ernie Halwell in Detroit?

One of the wonderful things about baseball IMO (or any sport) is the tradition and sounds of the voices that broadcast it. Like Bob Blackburn / Kevin Callabaro for the Sonics, Pete Gross (or now even Steve Raibel) for the Seahawks.

"Send lawyers, guns and money. The s**t has hit the fan"

by Thingray on Sep 21, 2007 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Cubs...
...should have ditched Harry Caray years before he passed away.  Detroit actually DID ditch Ernie Harwell, and it caused a shitstorm for about a season, and then life went on.

Vin Scully, on the other hand, will probably broadcast until the day he dies - why?  because his stories are still relevant, they still make sense, and he doesn't make stupid mistakes.  He hasn't skipped a beat since he started the job, and that to me is the big difference between Scully and Niehaus (or Caray, for that matter).

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Sep 21, 2007 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was under the impression
that Cubs fans loved Carry, and that Harwell retired by his own choice (doesn't mean there wasn't some pressure from the club though).

I guess I like the sound of the voices more than I care about the quality of the play-by-play itself. Accurate but boring is no way to go through life. It can be funny/frustrating listening on the radio and hearing Dave go "swung on and BELTED" and then have the ball be caught easily, but so what?

My Grandpa asked me at his 83rd birthday last week if I still liked working for the state...  I've never worked for the state, but I'm glad he wanted to ask me how my job was going! I guess I'm a sucker for history and nostalgia.

"Send lawyers, guns and money. The s**t has hit the fan"

by Thingray on Sep 21, 2007 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Cubs were happy they kept Harry
Harry was a major draw for the Cubs, not unlike the ivy or the neighborhood.  People would turn into a meaningless game (which was the rule in Chicago) just for the entertainment value of listening to Harry's stories about everything except the game.  He was everybody's favorite drunk uncle.  

The Cubs were smart enough to pair him with Steve Stone, who would politely correct Harry's errors, gently steer Harry's ramblings back to the game, and fill in the play-by-play that Harry missed.  The oblivious Caray and the exasperated Stone had a great chemistry, not unlike Howard Cosell and Don Meredith on the old Monday Night Football.  

[Camera shows attractive female fan in crowd]
Caray:  Yowza! Look at here.
Stone:  Yes, Harry, she's very attractive, but in this spot, Maddux will be looking to make Van Slyke chase one . . .  

by G_ on Sep 21, 2007 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cubs fans did/do love him
But this is a fan base that sells out a ballpark every single day, even when the team is crap - the lack of Harry wouldn't have killed him.

I was a bit wrong, about Harwell - he was indeed forced out, in 1991 (I think that's when Ilitch bought the team), but he sat '92 out and came back for the '93 season and retired on his own terms in 2002

And I'm not sharpening the knives for Niehaus or anything, I'm not about to lead a revolt to throw him out - I just wish the M's would listen to him talk sometime, and realize that he's really just sorta starting to embarrass himself, and maybe suggest that it's time for him to move on before nobody remembers Good Dave.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Sep 21, 2007 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wouldn't have killed *them*
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Sep 21, 2007 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I didn't know about the Harwell '91, '92 episode,
I just remembered him retiring a few years back.

As for Dave, he is already starting to take more and more time off. Maybe the team could just make him the "storyteller", and bring in somebody to fill in the play-by-play, like the Cubs did with Carry.

Like I said, I don't care what he actually says, I just love the sound of his voice because it makes me think of summer and baseball...  

"Send lawyers, guns and money. The s**t has hit the fan"

by Thingray on Sep 21, 2007 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Didn't Rick Rizz leave the M'S
about 10 years ago or so to take over for Ernie Harwell in Detroit?  That lasted about 1 year, I think.

by LBDave on Sep 21, 2007 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He was probably like
HOLY SMOKE these people are angry!

by Gomez on Sep 21, 2007 10:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

False statements in general
like Hudler and Physioc make don't annoy me at all, as I usually know the truth, and when I have a game on but am doing other things it doesn't lead me to believe something else, most rambling is just background noise to me anyways.

But when Dave can't tell the difference between a curve/changeup/or fastball, and can't tell whether a ball has been caught or not, or judge the distance of a flyball, its annoying because it throws the complexion of listening what you are watching completely off.

Anecdotes or insights aren't bothersome, making the absolute wrong calls on the action on the field is extremely irritating.

I've enjoyed listening to Dave since the Mariners came to be, but its gotten to the point where I either mute his innings on tv, or try and listen to the radio broadcast while he's on TV calling the game.

by MfaninAlaska on Sep 21, 2007 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I can see how Dave could bug people on radio
but when you are watching on tv you've got the best vantage point to tell what kind of pitch is thrown, how well a ball is hit, etc. And I'd gladly settle for a screw up from Dave now and then as opposed to listening to Hudler and Physioc say stupid stuff all game long.

by Zack on Sep 21, 2007 2:04 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

exact opposite
the false statements that the Angel guys make infuriate me because they're training a whole breed of fans to think like they do.

This country has enough stupidity.

by Matthew on Sep 21, 2007 3:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

FWIW
Sims and Rizzs get tricked by the same balls that Niehaus does, but their sharp enough to hide it better.
Yu Bet! Cuba, si! Yanqi, NO!

by Patrick517 on Sep 22, 2007 8:23 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also, just to note on the game in general...
there should have been one more ejection.  That being the pitching coach for LAAA.  He was the first one out, in a dead sprint.

Players can get in trouble for just leaving the bench in some cases, while he looked like he was out to get somebody.  I am sure he will instruct for retaliation at some point.

by ppl4life on Sep 21, 2007 10:33 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

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