John McLaren Is A Certified Idiot

by Jeff Sullivan on Aug 10, 2007 7:35 PM PDT in Seattle Mariners News, Regular

A complete idiot. He makes this team worse.

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Coach for Coach

by Robert on Aug 10, 2007 7:36 PM PDT reply actions

It's amazing

Some of the moves that he doesn't make are just no-brainer, elementary moves that just about every other manager and person with a brain would make. I just don't get it. It's infuriating.

by DKCecil on Aug 10, 2007 7:39 PM PDT reply actions

WE LOOOOOOOOVE OUR VETERANS

THEY'VE BEEN THROUGH WARS

by Jeff Sullivan on Aug 10, 2007 7:41 PM PDT up reply actions

Unfortunatly for us they survived the battlefield

Horacio Ramirez is God's gift to whoever the Mariners happen to be playing.

by SethGrandpa on Aug 10, 2007 7:42 PM PDT up reply actions

So are our veterans French?

Because they sure seem to like throwing up the white flag to the opposition in the form of god-awful defense and timely strikeouts/double plays.

by DKCecil on Aug 10, 2007 7:42 PM PDT up reply actions

You know what?

Take away a couple of double plays, and Sexson has been pretty good tonight.

by patsfan on Aug 10, 2007 7:39 PM PDT reply actions

Take away an LF spot...

and Raul has done good too.

I might've been the biggest Hargrove hater, but Mac is NO better.

Horacio Ramirez is God's gift to whoever the Mariners happen to be playing.

by SethGrandpa on Aug 10, 2007 7:41 PM PDT up reply actions

Sorry

That statement was supposed to be a parody of Mac's comments about Ho. Mac is atrocious.

by patsfan on Aug 10, 2007 7:44 PM PDT up reply actions

Oh I know...

I was just trying to add to it.

Horacio Ramirez is God's gift to whoever the Mariners happen to be playing.

by SethGrandpa on Aug 10, 2007 7:46 PM PDT up reply actions

Hey, if you take away Richie Sexson

.....then......yeah. Take away Richie Sexson.

by JLC on Aug 10, 2007 8:11 PM PDT up reply actions

He would never PH for Sexson at that time ..

.. we just need him to bench the dude, period.

by Good Old Guy on Aug 10, 2007 7:42 PM PDT reply actions

Mike Hargrove...misunderstood martyr?

Nah, he was a doofus too. But not as much of one as McLaren, who is clearly being held hostage by the affections and loyalties he cultivated as a bench coach.

by esoteric on Aug 10, 2007 7:50 PM PDT reply actions

I think this L sucks more

because of the Hawk, I wouldn't be upset if Matt Vasgersian was calling this game.

oh and fire Johnny Mac.

WHAT ARE YOU DOING JOHNNY MAC?!?!

by MFAN on Aug 10, 2007 7:51 PM PDT reply actions

I honestly never thought I'd say this

Hargrove >>>> McLaren. Sorta.

Well, they both equally suck anyway.

So, what's Dan Rohn doing these days???

Damn I hate this incompetency.

Hey McLaren -- RAUL CANNOT PLAY LEFT FIELD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by PositivePaul on Aug 10, 2007 7:51 PM PDT reply actions

I mean it's not like Hargrove would be putting out better rosters, he never proved to have any intelligent judgment as far rosters. The problem is Mac and Grover are the exact same person, I'm convinced. It's sickening.

Horacio Ramirez is God's gift to whoever the Mariners happen to be playing.

by SethGrandpa on Aug 10, 2007 7:58 PM PDT reply actions

I tend to disagree

in a large part, it seemed to me that once mateo got sent down, hargrove's bullpen management was stellar

and i think hargrove would have been a little quicker to benching richie/raul

but who knows

by mariners124m on Aug 10, 2007 8:10 PM PDT up reply actions

You've got a point on the bullpen...

But it was only because he lost his favorite toy. His bullpen management before then was worse than Mac's is now.

And judging by the PT Snelling, Jones, ect. got in the Grover era I doubt he'd be keen to bench the vets.

Horacio Ramirez is God's gift to whoever the Mariners happen to be playing.

by SethGrandpa on Aug 10, 2007 8:17 PM PDT up reply actions

After getting called up

Snelling collected 119 plate appearances in 42 team games - a 459 PA pace - while Jones started 23 of 34 team games before getting sent back down. Choo was the only young player he refused to play, and that's because Choo wasn't good.

by Jeff Sullivan on Aug 10, 2007 8:22 PM PDT up reply actions

Really?

Hmm...my mistake. I guess it just didn't seem like it.

Horacio Ramirez is God's gift to whoever the Mariners happen to be playing.

by SethGrandpa on Aug 10, 2007 8:25 PM PDT up reply actions

Yeah, I know what you mean.

Snelling was platooned. And Jones barely showed up when he played. So maybe that's what you're thinking of.

by Jeff Sullivan on Aug 10, 2007 8:26 PM PDT up reply actions

Probably

Horacio Ramirez is God's gift to whoever the Mariners happen to be playing.

by SethGrandpa on Aug 10, 2007 8:31 PM PDT up reply actions

Watching Mac

is killing me.

by KC @ Lookout Landing on Aug 10, 2007 8:16 PM PDT reply actions

Wow, that didn't take long

Yeah, Washburn faced 28 batters. 27 should be any manager's absolute limit and, yes, given fatigue and pitches, Wash should've been pulled before that, but if you're gonna stick with him you MUST pull him after facing the 9th batter a 3rd time. After that, not only does fatigue come into play, but hitter's recognition.

McLaren stated from the start that he wanted to stick with his starters for longer, but even then, he's gotta define a limit and be ready with the hook once the SP gets there. You can stick with your SPs but you can't be brainless about it like McLaren has.

by Gomez on Aug 10, 2007 8:43 PM PDT reply actions

I agree Wash should've been pulled...

But I hate the 27 batter limit people always clamor for. It's not as bad as the 100 pitch limit, but it's still stupid.

It's easy to see if a guy still has enough stuff to keep on pitching, letting 'magic' number dictate your managing is stupid. Can someone tell me what day it was that everyone went to sleep with pitchers being able to throw about 100+ pitches every time out in a 3 or 4 man rotation, and then suddenly the next day you have to automatically pull a pitcher after 100? Aren't today's players stronger then they were back then? What gives? Really nothing confuses me about baseball more than that.

Clearly Wash didn't have his stuff sharp enough, especially late, to warrant him staying in there, but I believe it had far less to do with a set number of batters as just not being that sharp today...oh and Raul in LF.

Horacio Ramirez is God's gift to whoever the Mariners happen to be playing.

by SethGrandpa on Aug 10, 2007 9:06 PM PDT up reply actions

The reasoning behind the 27 batter limit

is that hitters start to figure out how you're looking, how your stuff is moving, and they begin to get a bead on you as the game progresses and you tire. I forget the exact study to cite, but SPs do rather awful after they face a lineup a 4th time. The first 3 times through, there's enough relative novelty and gas in the tank that the pitcher can retain an edge.

That's the idea with the 27 batter limit. It's not all that artificial or arbitrary a limit.

by Gomez on Aug 10, 2007 9:16 PM PDT up reply actions

27 batter limit...

...is more a strategy thing, rather than physical tiredness.

You can set up a batter with a previous encounter, but it's increasingly harder the more times he's seen you in a game.

And it's a rule of thumb, not a hard and fast rule.

But with a pitcher running out of gas, past 100 pitches, past 27 batters...I think it's a REALLY good idea to have a short leash and watch him closely.

by rtang on Aug 10, 2007 9:30 PM PDT up reply actions

I understand that...

But when did it suddenly occur? I mean back in the early days it wasn't rare to see pitchers pitch more then 9 innings and still were able to get guys who'd seen them a bunch. That's not even taking into account how many more times pitchers would face any batter overall (less teams + smaller rotations = more familiarity).

I'm not disclaiming it just curious on how these huge changes pitching philosophies came about, that's all.

Horacio Ramirez is God's gift to whoever the Mariners happen to be playing.

by SethGrandpa on Aug 10, 2007 11:53 PM PDT up reply actions