Lookout Landing: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:



Around SBN: MLB postseason scores, schedules and blog coverage Bar-right-arrows



5-9

The Mariners return home to last place after taking a brief vacation. The subletting Rangers are just moving out.

Mariners: Hey.
Rangers: Oh, hey!
Mariners: :struggle with luggage:
Rangers: How was your trip?
Mariners: Too long.
Rangers: Too long?
Mariners: It had its moments, but after a while, y'know, it's nice to come back.
Rangers: Yeah, I can see that.
Mariners: How were things here?
Rangers: Oh, y'know, same old, same old.
Mariners: No fires or break-ins?
Rangers: Haha, no!
Mariners: You moved the couch.
Rangers: We thought we could get some light in the living room by changing around the furniture a little bit.
Mariners: And those flowers are new.
Rangers: The front yard was dull.
Mariners: What did I tell you about flowers?
Rangers: I'm sorry, I just thought -
Mariners: Whose property is this?
Rangers: ...but I don't -
Mariners: Whose property is this?
Rangers:
Mariners: This is my property.
Rangers: ...okay.
Mariners: Say it with me.
Rangers: We don't have to -
Mariners: This is my property.
Rangers: ...this is your property.
Mariners: Whose property is it?
Rangers: Yours.
Mariners: Damn straight.
Rangers: Okay, well, we'll be out of your hair in a minute. Just gotta bring out these last few boxes.
Mariners: I think we know how to decorate our own fucking property.
Rangers: Thanks again for renting out while you were away.
Mariners: Get off my lawn.

Biggest Contribution: Raul Ibanez, +8.0%
Biggest Suckfest: Jeff Weaver, -15.8%
Most Important At Bat: Ibanez triple, +8.7%
Most Important Pitch: Matthews double, -10.1%
Total Contribution by Pitcher(s): -14.2%
Total Contribution by Position Players: -42.3%

(What is this?)

Now that's what I'm talking about. This team came to the ballpark ready to lose, and didn't deviate from its established gameplan in the slightest despite a substantial amount of external pressure. It's good to see everyone working as a unit towards one set goal. That's the kind of thing that builds camaraderie, and a clubhouse of tight-knit no-talent assclowns can be critical as you head down the stretch of a last place season. If the coaches and captains want to foster a culture of losing, you can't afford to have one or two dissenters. After all, a team's chemistry is only as strong as its weakest bond.

If there's an upside to today's game, it is this - my friends, we may be witnessing the dying moments of Jeff Weaver's Seattle career. Despite getting out of a jam with consecutive strikeouts, Weaver was yanked after three innings and only 68 pitches, and replaced by a guy Bavasi picked up in the Rule 5 draft. The message is pretty clear: Hargrove thinks nothing of our $8m fifth starter, and would rather watch a minimum-wage nobody try to tame the toothless meerkats that make up the Anaheim batting order instead. Weaver wasn't hurt, and his last two AB's were pretty good, but Hargrove had nevertheless seen more than enough. And given the seven hits in three innings, you can't really blame him.

So where does this leave Weaver? With a manager that doesn't like him, he may be one good Cha Baek start and a healthy Felix away from losing his job. In a disappointing trio of new starters, Weaver's both the worst pitcher and the easiest to jettison, so it shouldn't take much to force him out of the rotation entirely. Something like 6 IP/3 ER from Baek tomorrow could be enough by itself. Stay tuned, because this has been an ugly week, and Weaver looks like he could be the first casualty of a team that desperately needs to avoid another tailspin.

The biggest problem with Weaver - as is also the case for Batista, Washburn, Ho Ramirez, and most of the bullpen - is that he doesn't have a strikeout pitch. Today he was getting ahead of countless hitters 0-1 and 0-2, but he couldn't put them away, so they fought off pitch after pitch until he made a mistake and they got something they could drive. Being able to throw strikes is important, but as evidenced by Weaver's seven hits and 71% strike rate this afternoon, it isn't everything - far more useful is the ability to miss bats. Do that consistently and you're able to get out of any jam. Struggle with it, though, and you're left hoping that the batter makes a mistake. At its heart, pitching is all about taking control of a game, but we've assembled a staff that, for the most part, needs the batters to make their own outs. And that just doesn't happen often enough for this team to get by.

As far as Weaver himself is concerned, if you're determined to squeeze something out of him rather than cut bait completely, Dave emailed me with one idea - put him in the bullpen. With a few extra miles on his fastball and a pretty good slider that's still trouble on right-handed hitters (see the Hillenbrand AB in the third inning), Weaver could be more successful in the Mateo role than the incumbent, which is something to think about. It's also highly unlikely, but there you go. It's not so much that Weaver appears finished as a pitcher as it is that he appears finished as a starter. Used properly in a bullpen that badly needs some help in the middle innings, Weaver could be a moderately tolerable stopgap.

Oh yeah, there was a game today. The Mariners sucked in it. Aside from Ibanez, Burke, and Beltre, who combined to go .375/.556/1.125 with about 32423432 feet of extra-base hits, the offense was pathetic, not even bothering to wake up once everything was out of hand. And as is always the case on non-Felix days, there wasn't any particular reason to pay close attention to the pitching, which was about as generic as it gets. Sean White's kind of cool as a mop-up guy when he isn't getting stabbed in the back by Yuniesky Betancourt, but I don't know how much of that comes from the fact that his three appearances have come in relief of guys who allowed 18 runs in 13.2 innings. This is why women always try to befriend other women who are far less attractive. Separate White from his fugly companions and we might see him for what he really is - a worthless nothing righty who wouldn't have a job in a contending team's bullpen. With Seattle, though, he's Hargrove's go-to long reliever. Context is everything.

No kidding.

Texas tomorrow to kick off back-to-back two-game series against superior divisional opponents. If this pitching's been lousy in Seattle and Anaheim, I can't wait to see how things in Arlington unfold.

0 recs | Comment 77 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

Posted this in game thread but I'll repost here
Great moment on FSN, which cut to Hargrove, who was slumped over the chair with his head in his hands, as he was being asked about Weaver.  Says it all.

BTW Grover confirmed weaner will make his next start.  (I mistyped Weaver but it's hilariously accurate so I'm leaving it)

by Gomez on Apr 22, 2007 4:33 PM PDT   0 recs

How about putting him out of his misery?
Managing this team can't possibly be fun.

by Rollo Tomasi on Apr 22, 2007 4:49 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I sincerely hope
that the phrase "slump buster" in that Weaver graphic is not being used in the Mark Grace way.  Because that'd just be sick . . . although Sexson could use a slumpbuster . . . so could Lopez, Yuni, Raul, Vidro, and Guillen . . . hmm, we might be able to get some value out of Jeff yet.  

Second, I can just see the Weaver's plan working:

Step 1: sign 1 year / 8 million contract.
Step 2: suck
Step 3: be DFAed
Step 4: be outright released by the Mariners
Step 5: sign with St. Louis on a league minimum contract
Step 6: don't suck (so much), pick up some wins so that overall record is over .500,  get a few clutch playoff wins.  
Step 7: sign 2 year / $20 million contract with Seattle.
Step 8: repeat steps 2-6.  

by abelard on Apr 22, 2007 4:42 PM PDT   0 recs

I agree completely
As much as I hate Weaver, I would hate to see us cut him only to have him sign with another team down the stretch.  If he's not going to earn his $8 mil, at least make him do it as a Mariner, which can't be a whole lot of fun.  Move him to the bullpen, cut Mateo, and give him garbage innings.

by Zack on Apr 22, 2007 5:25 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

LOL hammering slump busters
Of course, Weaver looks nothing like a fat, gnarly chick.  Vidro and Colon, maybe, but not Weaver.

by Gomez on Apr 22, 2007 5:32 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Your recap
made me laugh so hard. Too bad my laughter was a cold dark hearted laugh that filled my eyes with tears. Thanks for all your efforts.

by mark s on Apr 22, 2007 4:46 PM PDT   0 recs

I really, really
really hate this team.
Serenity Now!

by Coach Owens on Apr 22, 2007 5:05 PM PDT   0 recs

Might be...
The one thing you've said nobody here can disagree with right now...

Well, I still don't hate Felix, Ichiro, Betancourt, Lopez, Putz, Jojima, Morrow, Broussard, Burke, Sherrill, Beltre, Guillen, Raul, Ellison, White, O'Flaherty, or Reitsma yet.

In fact, I'm starting to really like Reitsma's changeup and it really seems like he's back to pre-injury form, which makes him at least a servicable relief pitcher.  Expensive, but useful.  So I don't HATE him.

Burke is growing on me and Ellison hasn't done anything to make me hate him yet.  White isn't a bad pitcher.  I think he could be a servicable arm, actually.

But Sexson, Willie, Batista, Ramirez, Weaver, Mateo, and Washburn can all be elsewhere as soon as possible.

Vidro... y'know as much as I hate Vidro I at least like his approach at the plate.  He takes pitches, he doesn't swing at crap, and appears to have learned that line drives are better then groundballs.  Since he hasn't been horrible, Im moving him out of hatred and into "meh" status.  But if he grounds into more double plays, all bets are off.

If you can fight, fight. If you can't fight, defend. If you can't defend, flee. If you can't flee, surrender. If you can't surrender, die. - Sima Yi

by TIF on Apr 23, 2007 3:16 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Reitsma is only making like $2.5 isn't he?
I wouldn't call that expensive.
No sir, I don't like it. ~Mr.Horse

by Goose on Apr 23, 2007 4:37 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

For some reason I had
over 3 million in my head... Well that works.
If you can fight, fight. If you can't fight, defend. If you can't defend, flee. If you can't flee, surrender. If you can't surrender, die. - Sima Yi

by TIF on Apr 23, 2007 2:29 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

why
does no one on this team other than fatty work a count?
PP

by armedpp on Apr 22, 2007 5:41 PM PDT   0 recs

Hargrove
Pray that the Mariners don't fire Hargrove until somebody else hires Dusty Baker.  If Baker is available, the Mariners will go after him: (a) proven veteran manager; (b) high profile manager; (c) more or less traditional strategy manager; (d) loves to ruin pitcher's arms.  How could the Mariners' resist a combo like that?  Please, somebody, tell me I'm wrong about this.

Next, pray that the Mariners hire a new manager before the Yankees fire Joe Torre.  He's not the right fit for this group.

We are the holler men, we are the glove men, mouthpiece filled with plug: ptoo!

by Celadus on Apr 22, 2007 5:59 PM PDT   0 recs

If it is in season
I would bet it would be John McClaren.

I hate this team though, I don't even know why I watch anymore.  I feel like I'm a girl dating an abusive drunk and I know I should leave, but for some reason I don't.

I think I need counseling.

by Replacement Level Poster on Apr 22, 2007 6:03 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I dunno.
I think it would be interesting to see Torre get literally bored to death.

by Jeff on Apr 22, 2007 6:06 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Torre won't get fired
A-Rod will hit 100 homers and the Yankees will smear the Red Sox, win an ALDS, maybe even get over the hump and win a World Series despite the rotation full of nobodies.  And Torre will remain.  Like Zim, he has a job until he decides he doesn't want it anymore, no matter what Steinbrenner says.  He knows he's not gonna get anyone who fits that team better to manage.

by Gomez on Apr 22, 2007 6:09 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Don't forget
Baker hates for his team to take walks.

by Katal LM on Apr 22, 2007 6:26 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Also, unless someone is fired
... or Felix comes back healthy

... or new, decent talent is brought in

... or this teams decides to start trying for a change

... I have no reason to watch anymore.  If nothing else is going on and I can a cheap ticket, sure, I'll go and watch.  If they're on TV and I have nothing else going on, sure, I'll watch.

And laugh.  I mean, that was my plan before the year started, right?  And then things happened, the AL West looked a bit weak, Felix was a stud, and suddenly I started having hope again, but now I know better.

Back to Plan A until this team gives me a legitimate reason to believe otherwise.

by Gomez on Apr 22, 2007 6:07 PM PDT   0 recs

Exactly
I'm back to rooting for individual performances, so Good Putz, Go Felix, Go Lopez, Go Betancourt, Go Sherrill, Go Morrow.

But everyone else can just lose and rot in hell and I'll laugh at them until they are replaced.

by I'm NOT Corco on Apr 23, 2007 9:28 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

WHAT?
not Johjima?
Serenity Now!

by Coach Owens on Apr 23, 2007 10:48 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Hey Jeff...
This season, it's not just six Mariners that are better than Mike Young... it's the whole team.

by benmor78 on Apr 22, 2007 6:09 PM PDT   0 recs

Mike Hargrove...
could probably outhit Young at this point, as well.

by benmor78 on Apr 22, 2007 6:34 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I wonder what's up with Michael Young
I know he's an overrated hack and all, but still.

by Gomez on Apr 22, 2007 7:53 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

He's given up...
on hitting to focus on his "grit."

by benmor78 on Apr 22, 2007 10:50 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Just wondering
How bad does Beltre feel that he lost his #2 spot to Willie fucking Bloomquist?

by Mariner John on Apr 22, 2007 6:48 PM PDT   0 recs

Well at least I am not alone
I was thinking today that weaver would be good in the bullpen
Shop smart......Shop s-mart...... YOU GOT THAT!!!!

by Scruffy Lefty on Apr 22, 2007 8:12 PM PDT   0 recs

Home sweet Home.
No sir, I don't like it. ~Mr.Horse

by Goose on Apr 22, 2007 8:31 PM PDT   0 recs

So to take your mind off the mariners
I suggest Planet Earth on the discovery channel.  Its a pretty amazing show.

by Edgar for Pres on Apr 22, 2007 9:01 PM PDT   0 recs

Didn't the narration get replaced?
If so, whoever made the decision to switch out Attenborough for Sigourney Weaver needs to be beaten to death with a squirrel.

by Graham on Apr 22, 2007 11:16 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

ya they do
but I have the 1080 versions of the bbc ones on my computer so I can't complain to much
Shop smart......Shop s-mart...... YOU GOT THAT!!!!

by Scruffy Lefty on Apr 23, 2007 6:47 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Weaver's reaction to getting pulled

Weaver's outing shorter than expected

"I was definitely looking to come back out there for the fourth," Weaver said as the team packed up and prepared to fly to Dallas for tonight's game in Arlington, Texas, against the Rangers. "I don't know what that was about."

"I haven't talked to the skipper. But it's his job to make that call. Now I just have to get ready to pitch again in five days."

by ThundaPC on Apr 22, 2007 9:03 PM PDT   0 recs

He... hasn't... talked to the skipper...
I dunno about you, but if I just had another shitty outing and I got yanked earlier than expected, one of the first things I'd do is go talk to the skipper about what's going on.

Mental midget.

by Gomez on Apr 22, 2007 9:05 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

He'd probably get a more intelligent responce
out of Gilligan.
No sir, I don't like it. ~Mr.Horse

by Goose on Apr 22, 2007 9:17 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

At least try
or offer him a joint.  Can't make him any dumber.  Knowing Grover, he'd probably accept, AND ask Weaver for the name of his dealer.

by Gomez on Apr 22, 2007 10:53 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Baker said
he probably could have even played today if it wasn't already a scheduled day off for him. No worries, apparently. But, man, that looked painful.

by Nuss on Apr 22, 2007 11:19 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Only 148 to go?
By my calculations, it's more like 83 or 84 to go for Ichiro, depending if he plays on July 31 ...

No way Bavasi's replacement is dumb enough to keep him around then watch him walk for nothing.

by Nuss on Apr 22, 2007 11:22 PM PDT   0 recs

Not nothing
a first round draft pick. There's no way Ichiro would accept arbitration.

by Rollo Tomasi on Apr 23, 2007 12:04 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

We're much better off moving him before deadline
We will get a lot more in return than what a first round pick will bring us.

by phil333 on Apr 23, 2007 5:27 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

to LAD for Kemp + pitching.
I don't feel like checking, but do the Dodgers even HAVE any pitching that we would want?

by PShwa on Apr 23, 2007 5:37 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I endorse this move
Pierre / Furcal / Ichiro would please the hell out of me.

by Garces on Apr 23, 2007 8:31 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Haha
I have a real weird man-crush on Matt Kemp, so I'll take him for anything decent.

Ibanez/Kemp/Guillen?

Eventually -

(Insert someone here-Raul, WLAD, anyone)/Jones/Kemp?

I'll take it.

by PShwa on Apr 23, 2007 9:23 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Honestly
I think this trade might've happened before they signed Pierre but now that they're stuck with him I can't see it happening.

by bluemax on Apr 23, 2007 10:54 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I disagree
It's never a bad idea to get one of the best hitters in the game on your team, just because he might not have the power.

The top of that lineup would be devastating.  Throw Ichiro in the 3 spot and they'd have runs coming out of their ears.

by Garces on Apr 23, 2007 12:16 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I like Kemp too
Though I prefer Ethier or Loney.  In MLB 2K7, the Dodgers actually traded me all three of them for Ichiro.  If we could get two, with one of them being Loney, we could afford to turn around and deal Sexson for a desperately needd #3 starter like Noah Lowry or a Dan Haren type...eh, we'd probably need to throw in way more to get a Haren type...just dreaming at this point...the rant was rather pointless...

by BrettJMiller on Apr 23, 2007 12:17 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I dunno
Loney's pretty overrated, as far as prospects go.

I'm still set on Elbert.

Though, as a Dodgers fan, I can't lose either way!

by Garces on Apr 23, 2007 12:37 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

More on Elbert
Scott Elbert-S- Dodgers     Apr. 11 - 1:43 pm et

Scott Elbert pitched five innings of no-hit ball and struck out nine for Double-A Jacksonville on Tuesday.
Elbert struggled to throw strikes this spring, but he has an 18/3 K/BB ratio in 11 innings so far for Jacksonville. If this keeps up, he could reach Triple-A in June.

---

Tall, 21 year old lefty.  Looks a LOT like Johnny Damon:

http://story.scout.com/a.z?s=251&p=2&c=618952

by Garces on Apr 23, 2007 12:42 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I love it
But the LA outfield doesnt really need a Ichiro.

without him its Gonzo/Pierre/Ethier

+Kemp
+Anderson

I know I proposed it, but it doesnt seem likely that LA would do that.

still

<3 Matt Kemp

by PShwa on Apr 23, 2007 12:51 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Nah
Every outfield needs an Ichiro.

by Garces on Apr 23, 2007 1:01 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Based on all the research I've just done
Comparing Haren to Lowry is crazy talk!

by Graham on Apr 23, 2007 2:55 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

If Bavasi gets fired midseason
Then I'll... well, I don't know what I'll do, but it'll involve a crumpet.

One the one hand, I'd say give this team some more time - we're currently performing as poorly as humanly possible, and there's nowhere to go but up.

On the other hand, without Felix we suck, so might as well blow up the team. That's the pessimist in me speaking though.

by Graham on Apr 23, 2007 12:05 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't trust anyone in the FO
who has his/her hand in major league operations to oversee a rebuild with this team.

Considering Bavasi's trackrecord, I'd rather gamble on Ichiro being good for another 4-5 years than on the prospects that Bavasi trades for panning out.

by Matthew on Apr 23, 2007 12:52 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Hey, look on the bright side
There are still three teams with worse winning percentages than the M's!

by patsfan on Apr 22, 2007 11:45 PM PDT   0 recs

Can someone remind me why
we didn't bid on Daisuke, again?

by chaney on Apr 23, 2007 12:34 AM PDT   0 recs

Why are people still bitching about that?
We wouldn't of won anyways since most reports were saying that if the M's did bid, it would of been in the neighbor hood of $22-$25 million. Which would of been good for like 3rd or 4th place.
No sir, I don't like it. ~Mr.Horse

by Goose on Apr 23, 2007 12:39 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Yes, this is true
But that doesn't mean we shouldn't have tried.

by Graham on Apr 23, 2007 5:27 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Dice-K is a non issue
He is completly overpaid at $51 million for the negotiation rights and another $50 million in salary. That money can be much better spent. The real problem is giving $8 mil to retards like Jeff Weaver and letting Grover continue to manage this team.

by phil333 on Apr 23, 2007 5:29 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

His current salary isn't the point
The fact that management had a chance to -try- and get him but didn't is the point. Would I was Matsuzaka right now, for the money that he cost? Probably not.

That does not mean that the Mariners should not have bid for him, or that not bidding at all was the right move. It's symptomatic of being utterly unable to figure out solutions to problems, or even figure out what your problems even are.

by Graham on Apr 23, 2007 6:07 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Oh right
Because we suck. Thanks.

by chaney on Apr 23, 2007 4:37 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Nobody thought he would sign for
what he ended up signing for and nobody thought it would take 50+ mil to win the bid.

by Matthew on Apr 23, 2007 12:50 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

What Matthew said
Nobody other than the Red Sox realized that it was gonna take $52 mil to talk with Dice.

There was really nothing the M's could done other than not waste millions and top propsects on acquiring crappy players.

by Gomez on Apr 23, 2007 9:09 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

hey
at least now that we're playing at texas, we should see all of Beltre and Sexson's warning track pop-ups travel all the way back to the Safe.

by PShwa on Apr 23, 2007 9:26 AM PDT   0 recs

according to Baker on his blog
he believes if the M's lose the next 4 that the Hargrove regime will be over with on their return home....

by MfaninAlaska on Apr 23, 2007 10:33 AM PDT   0 recs

I may hate this team sometimes
but I still have hope! GO MARINERS!!! WOOOOOOOO!
Serenity Now!

by Coach Owens on Apr 23, 2007 11:11 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Mariners @ Rangers
Whoever wins, we lose.

by Garces on Apr 23, 2007 12:37 PM PDT   0 recs

so it's win/win
if the M's win..then cool we win! If they lose Grover could possible be gone.

Go Rangers!!...plus I have Millwood on my fantasy team!

by MFAN on Apr 23, 2007 2:25 PM PDT   0 recs

Kevin Millwood is like herpes
He keeps coming back every so often, and it's painful.

by Gomez on Apr 23, 2007 2:29 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed