Joel Pineiro = Red Sox?

by Trent on Jan 3, 2007 1:21 PM PST Comment 46 comments

Sounds like it's almost done . I don't know about anyone else, but placing Joel in the closers role would scare the crap out of me if I'm a Red Sox fan. Unless, of course, he's back on the needle.

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Beat me to it

I had just copied the link and rushed over here. Hard to say what Theo's thinking but I know the Sox and Yanks had Jo-elle on their respective wish lists a year or 2 back.

Any chance he makes a comeback and flourishes in a mid/long relief role?

by AZSEAfan on Jan 3, 2007 2:11 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

azseafan

azseafan, send me an email at phredmojo@hotmail.com

by phredmojo on Jan 3, 2007 5:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Oh god

Now which do I look forward to the Ms facing more: A Meche start in KC or a Pineiro save attempt in AssholeTown?

by Matthew on Jan 3, 2007 2:21 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

As a closer?

I give him a week before Paps is back in the 'pen and the Sox brass are licking their wounds.

by AnotherAaron on Jan 3, 2007 2:40 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Bwhahaha

Joel having to face the Yankees 19 times a year?

That's gonna be ugly.

Aici zace un om despre care nu se ştie prea mult.

by Goose on Jan 3, 2007 2:42 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Joel Piñeir-NO!

I can see the Boston Herald headline already.

by Colby In Boston on Jan 3, 2007 2:43 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

OH NO Piniero!

Did someone not come back from a new years bender in bean town? UA the front office....

I killed a 12 pack just to watch it die...

by Dollar97 on Jan 3, 2007 3:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I'd read a month or so ago that Boston was considering giving Pineiro a shot as their closer. I think we all pretty much agree that he'll disappoint in that role. In an Honorary Julio Mateo low-leverage innings-eater type role in the bullpen, he might have a chance at still having a MLB career, but I'd be shocked if he had any sort of success in a high-leverage bullpen role...

Iceberg, right ahead!

by PositivePaul on Jan 3, 2007 3:43 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

It's the top of the 9th

Red Sox lead the Yankees 6-5. The fans at Fenway are going crazy.

And here comes the closer!

by ThundaPC on Jan 3, 2007 5:01 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

What the article failed to mention

Is that he's just closing the pre-game BP sessions.

by Josh on Jan 3, 2007 6:35 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Hey, don't knock that role

Centering those last three pitches to Big Papi is the toughest job in BP.

by Gomez on Jan 3, 2007 10:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I think you might be onto something

Imagine Big Papi and Pineiro in the HR derby at the All Star game. They probably did a cost analysis and figured that sales of jerseys would rocket after Pineiro pitches to Big Papi and he hits 1000 HRs in a row.

by Edgar for Pres on Jan 3, 2007 10:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Ahhhhhh

Now i don't feel AS bad about seattle

i do feel bad for joel though, back when he was good i used to like him, sucks he's gonna get his ass chewed outta beantown before the ASB (i predict...)

by mariners124m on Jan 3, 2007 7:24 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Not a horrible move

if it wasn't for the amount of $$ he got. Like all FA out there, he got probably twice what he's worth. You can't complain too much because its only a 1 yr deal.

by Edgar for Pres on Jan 3, 2007 10:33 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Have fun with that, BAWSTON

Can't wait for ESPN and Peter Gammons to spend half of BBTN talking about Joel's latest blown save.

by Gomez on Jan 3, 2007 10:46 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I can see it now...

Piniero saves 45 games for Boston, Soriano saves 40 games for Atlanta, Snelling hits .322 for Washington, drives in 80 and hits 35 doubles, Fruto has 40 holds and an ERA under 3, and Gil Meche wins 21 games for the Wild Card winning KC Royals..

Wait a second...I think the world would have to end for all those to happen together

by tkballer22 on Jan 4, 2007 7:33 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: I can see it now...

Out of everything you just said, Meche winning 21 games is probably the least likely. I could honestly see the rest of the above actually happening with Meche winning about 15-17.

by Trent on Jan 4, 2007 7:57 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Or....

Piniero helps New York win the division by holding zero games, blowing 10 saves and posting an Ayalaesque 7.48 era.

Meche blinds himself trying some of Pinieros hair bleach and retires.

Soriano saves 15 games for Atlanta and is traded on July 31st to Boston for 2 top and 1 middling prospects. Upon arrival in Boston he is hailed as a hero when Piniero helps Soriano move into his knew place, trips on some stairs and blows out his knee.

Snelling hits .350 for Washington, knocks in 50 runs and hits 20 doubles, then is traded back to Seattle at the All Star break for Clement and Jones, after which Hargrove gives him a "high five" welcome back, misses and pokes him in the eye, ending his season.

Fruto quits baseball and becomes a professional eater, beating Kobayashi in the Nathans hot dog eating contest, downing an amazing 250 hot dogs.

by Ben in Va on Jan 4, 2007 9:08 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

The Boston Herald

reports an option for 2008 if he "finishes" 35 games.....http://redsox.bostonherald.com/redSox/view.bg?articleid=175264&format=text

I killed a 12 pack just to watch it die...

by Dollar97 on Jan 4, 2007 9:12 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

As in

makes it out alive? or simply not in tears?

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by Christian on Jan 4, 2007 9:17 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

That is a good question...

the term "finishes" leaves things open....does that include 20 blown saves (hey, giving up the winning run and being the last pitcher standing is finishing...just not finishing right). I don't see how his psyche can hold up in beantown...he collapsed under pressure here.

I killed a 12 pack just to watch it die...

by Dollar97 on Jan 4, 2007 9:27 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I hear ...

they're coming out with a Red Sox World Series Commemorative Edition of Chutes and Ladders. They're going to send Piñeiro to play the game with kids staying at Ronald MacDonald house, and if he finishes 35 of those games his options vests.

by Steve Nelson on Jan 4, 2007 9:38 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Or maybe Boston is being smarter

than initially thought. They are going to have him play a game of Risk with 5 smart kids from Yale. You know those games could take forever therefore the clause is a moot point.

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by Christian on Jan 4, 2007 9:56 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Risk! Ha ha

Back in my college days, a group of us played Risk twice-a-month. We capped the number of bonus armies for turning in a boot at about 50, then played on four boards,arranged edge-to-edge. Those games never ended.

by Steve Nelson on Jan 4, 2007 10:54 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Wow.

Sounds like you went to school with Mr. Epstein.

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by Christian on Jan 4, 2007 11:14 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

And I mean that in a manner

of he remembered those days of yore for his contract with Pineiro, otherwise known as the Captain of Irktusk!

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by Christian on Jan 4, 2007 11:16 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I was always more of a Yakutsk man

by Steve Nelson on Jan 4, 2007 11:52 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Never had the patience for the game honestly.

Still a Stratego man.

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by Christian on Jan 4, 2007 11:54 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

That could never happen...

there aren't 5 smart kids at Yale.

by Matthew on Jan 5, 2007 9:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

It's like Oxford then?

by Graham on Jan 6, 2007 12:50 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Pineiro Impression?

Hey all, I've posted on here a couple times before (after Meche was signed); I'm Red Sox fan, and I was just wondering if I could get a scouting report from y'all? I seem to remember Pineiro having a good fastball, a big breaker, and control problems, but I haven't seend him pitch in a while.

by NHZ on Jan 5, 2007 10:40 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

With no exaggeration

He is in the bottom 5% of pitchers in the major leagues, and probably well below that.

by Graham on Jan 5, 2007 10:45 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Joel

had a good fastball. He was able to get it over 90 in relief more, but even in relief he doesn't get the velocity he did back in '02-'03 when he was on the verge of being one of the best pitchers in baseball. His curveball and change-up just aren't good enough w/o the fastball, he DOES have some serious control problems. He can throw strikes, but after watching the last couple seasons, that's not necessarily a good thing. He's earned the name Junk-Ball Piñata for a reason (OK nobodies called him exactly that, but he's a Junk-baller who can't get a batter out to save his life). I suspect he'll be 'serviceable' in relief for a full year, but by servicelable I mean a 4.5 FIP or something like that, which is more or less the epitome of replacement-level.

by chrisisasavage on Jan 5, 2007 1:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

by that

I mean 4.5 fip is pretty much replacement level, for a reliever

by chrisisasavage on Jan 5, 2007 1:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

The 'Mr. Rubbish' nickname

Never really caught on...

by Graham on Jan 5, 2007 1:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Basically

Like Guardado and Todd Jones, and honestly, a ton of other relievers, he'll be a guy with no stuff who gets by on intimidation by prior reputation and short, limited appearances, which makes booking him harder for hitters.

by Gomez on Jan 6, 2007 1:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

You really think

Pineiro scares many people.

by Edgar for Pres on Jan 6, 2007 2:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe his fans and teammates LOLOLOLOL

He scares people as much as Todd Jones does.

by Gomez on Jan 6, 2007 3:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Pineiro

Thanks. So would you guys attribute his high BABIP (.331) on deteriorating stuff, or would you go with the Baseball Prospectus theory that BABIP (BA Against on Balls In Play) is mostly luck? I'm just curious, because it's one of the few things I can find that may indicate a reobund.

In other words, do you think this guy is just way too hittable? (I'm leaning towards yes...)

by NHZ on Jan 5, 2007 7:43 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

BABIP

The notion that BABIP is mostly luck presupposes that a pitcher is of MLB caliber. That presumption is not true for pitchers who are not MLB caliber; in fact, one could say that what defines a MLB caliber pitcher is that he pitches well enough that BABIP is dominated by luck rather than skill.

Joel Piñeiro is among the class of pitchers whose BABIP is high because he sucks, not because he is unlucky.

by Steve Nelson on Jan 5, 2007 9:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Imagine a pitcher

throwing batting practice at the HR derby. Those players hit HRs on over half of those balls and their BABIP is therefore at least .500. When Pineiro pitches it can be similar to this. His FIP and xFIP are lower than his ERA and this will likely continue because they were not made to evaluate pitchers who do not deserve to be in MLB.

He has been turning into a junkball pitcher because of his declining fastball. His change and curve are solid big league pitches but his fastball is weak. He's lost quite a bit of velocity on it over the years and in an attempt I'm guessing he's trying harder to throw it faster and has lost movement. This also makes his offspeed stuff much more predictable and easy to hit.

Batter's approach to facing Pineiro:

Sit on the fastball. Its pretty slow and straight. When he is behind it usually will result in extra bases.
Sit on the offspeed stuff. Pineiro knows his fastball sucks. He throws a lot of offspeed stuff and if you know its coming it ain't too hard to hit.
Get a walk.
Approach him as if he's good. Forget that his fastball is really slow and take it right down the middle for strike one. Again you think his fastball is better than it is and you swing early on his change for strike two. Pineiro throws another fastball down the middle and it looks like a perfect HR ball but quantum leap occurs and the ball travels through the bat. As you walk back to the clubhouse in disbelief the entire stadium is either in shocked silence or laughing at you.

by Edgar for Pres on Jan 6, 2007 11:44 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

HRs

Aren't in play!

by Graham on Jan 6, 2007 12:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Damn I forgot about that one

Well you get the idea though.

by Edgar for Pres on Jan 6, 2007 2:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

#4

is a dead-on description of Baseball Simulator 1.000

by Gomez on Jan 6, 2007 1:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Oh yeah I forgot

I went to spring training last year and my friend had to take a picture of Pineiro's butt. I guess it was a condition he agreed to with his wife so that he could go on the trip. I think a lot of women are fans of Pineiro so I guess he's got that going for him.

by Edgar for Pres on Jan 6, 2007 2:59 PM PST reply actions 0 recs