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Adam Dunn

He and the Reds have agreed to a multiyear deal in which Dunn's two remaining arbitration years are bought out for $18m, with a $13m option for 2008. Reds fans are liking the new GM already.

A lot of statheads and BP readers have been known to fall all over themselves when talking about Dunn, a 26 year old who hits 40 homers and walks 100 times a year, and being one myself, it's easy to understand why. The guy has 158 bombs and a career OPS of .901 before turning 27, and that's terrific. It's just that he also has some flaws that tend to be glossed over by the "analytical public," flaws that make him a worse player than you'd think by simply glancing at his age and raw numbers.

The first problem - and this one's pretty obvious - is that Dunn has spent his entire career playing in a hitter's environment. Over the last three years, the Great American Ballpark has a 116 HR factor, ranking it fifth in baseball, behind Coors, US Cellular, Citizen's Bank, and Ameriquest (100 is average, 101+ is favorable to hitters). The HR factor for left-handed hitters is 117, so clearly, this is a good place for Dunn to be playing. The benefits of calling Cincinatti home are evident in Dunn's splits, where his career road OPS is down 99 points from where it is at home (and down 133 points from where it is in the GAB). Since 2003, Dunn has hit .230/.362/.474 on the road, and while that's a good line, it makes him more Jay Buhner and less Manny Ramirez. Strike one.

The second issue is that, while Dunn is still young, he is the textbook definition of a guy with old player skills - little speed, tons of walks, tons of strikeouts, good power, and bad defense. Bill James (and dozens of other analysts) have written about this type of player at some length, concluding that they tend to have limited growth potential and earlier, more precipitous declines. Think Ben Grieve. The guys you usually see burst onto the scene in their age 26-29 seasons are ones who're still realizing previously untapped potential, putting all of their tools to use. With someone like Dunn, he's already maximizing everything he's got, so he can't really go much higher. What you see is what you get until the decline phase begins. Strike two.

This brings us to the matter of Dunn's outfield defense. In short, it sucks. It's not quite Manny Ramirez or Ken Griffey Jr. bad, but it was lousy enough to force the Reds into moving Dunn to first base full-time before turning 27 (preliminary evidence suggests that he still sucks, even with the change in position). While he may be able to survive at first base in the same way that Richie Sexson has gotten by despite a poor performance record, Dunn is really in over his head when forced to play the field, costing his team at least 5-10 runs a year. He doesn't afford the Reds any real flexibility, and having a guy tied into the left-most end of the defensive spectrum at a young age on a developing team is going to make it that much more difficult to build around him. This says nothing of the fact that Dunn's bat looked better among other corner outfielders than it does among other first basemen. Dunn really needs to be DH'ing for someone in a hitter's park by the time he's 30. Strike three.

Adam Dunn is a reasonably good baseball player, a guy whose bat makes up for his poor defense. In a world that deems Alfonso Soriano worthy of making $10m in arbitration, Dunn's $10.5m 2007 salary doesn't look that bad. The problem is that he's not as good as a lot of people think he is, and with his skillset, he's not likely to get much better with age. In a park that's friendly to left-handed hitters like the GAB, he's a nice guy to have around, but at the same time I don't think the Reds can afford to have this much money tied up in a guy with limited upside, so they might be better off exploring the trade market now that he's essentially locked up for three years. It's not going to happen, but I have to think that it'd probably be in their best interests.

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Dunn rocks
That is a very good contract.  

It is also a very tradable contract.  I wouldn't be at all suprised to see the Reds move him for pitching.  They are desperate for starters and he is by far their best trading chip.  

I would love to see Dunn in Seattle.  Obviously, it is not a good trade match.  But just imagine how well he would fill out our lineup:

Ichiro RF
Reed CF
Beltre 3B
Dunn DH
Sexson 1B
Ibanez LF
Johjima C
Lopez 2B
Betancourt SS

Wow.  

But you are right.  Investing that much money into a player with negative defensive value (or simply no defensive value if he is a DH), really limits what a team can do with the roster.  

It is definitely best to invest the big money in guys who hit and help on defense, because it is so much easier to get cheap production in LF, 1B, and DH.  

But Dunn is a monster.  Despite the fact that Sexson and him would combine for 350 Ks each year, it would be damn fun to watch.  

by Jerry on Feb 14, 2006 8:25 AM PST reply actions  

Nice analysis
Nice analysis, but I do have one comment.

BP gives him decent speed scores and, while he may not steal a lot of bases, I have heard that he's not exactly a lumberer.  I have also read that, despite his size, he is actually quite athletic, so the fat-man slugger comparisons may not quite accurate, either.

I haven't actually watched him, so I don't have the full picture.  You are essentially right though: Adam Dunn is a fantastic young player who does have some significant warts.

One thing I'll always remember: at the 02 All-Star game, a reporter asked him if he knew that he was the youngest player in the All-Star Game.  Apparently, he replied (no soure), "I'm also the smartest and most handsome."  Gotta love that.

Visiting A's Fan - also see BtB

by salb918 on Feb 14, 2006 8:57 AM PST reply actions  

Re: Nice analysis
I haven't been able to watch Dunn as often as I would've liked, either, but his Speed Scores hover around the league average, and his outfield defense is/was terrible. He might be a little faster than I give him credit for, but he's not getting himself out of many rundowns.

by Jeff Sullivan on Feb 14, 2006 9:30 AM PST up reply actions  

Jeff...
is there a stat for getting out of rundowns?

Seeing Adam Dunn as much as I have, I'd take him on the Cubs in a second. He does run very well for a guy his size... but the guy is a monster who can hit anywhere... but maybe I'm just remembering all the times when he kills the Cubs at Wrigley Field. I am throughly unafraid of his strikeouts, unalike many Cubs fans who wouldn't want to give up our mediocre prospects for him because he strikes out. Great, now we're stuck with Jacque Jones. There's an upgrade for you.

Why couldn't you have got Bavasi to pony up the money for Jacque Jones instead of settling for Carl Everett?

by jameslcrockett on Feb 14, 2006 3:52 PM PST up reply actions  

speed
Actually, Dunn is a lot faster than people give him credit for.  He just looks awkward when he runs, but those long legs cover a lot of ground.

Dunn wouldn't be such a defensive liability if he were on a team with some pitching, but since the pitching is the league's worst, not having defensive skills is hurting the team even more.

Come worship at the Church of Baseball with Sister Daedalus!

by Daedalus on Feb 15, 2006 11:14 AM PST up reply actions  

sure
Dunn is 6'6 and 270...with league average speed.  There are no similar players.  His similarity index is 6 (thats UNIQUE) and includes everyone from Rob Deer to Barry Bonds.  

He played QB at Texas.  He is big and fast.  Runs the bases well.  If this is his peak, 40 home runs, 100 runs, rediculous OBP...Thats worth every penny. If Dunn was a better hitter, we'd be talking about Albert Puljous.

I don't think Dunn is overrated because he doesn't put up Hank Aaron or Barry Bonds numbers.

 

by Topsixrows on Feb 17, 2006 7:12 AM PST up reply actions  

Park effects
Given that Dunn can hit so much better in the Great American Ballpark, and is something like a league average first baseman on the road, isn't he worth more to the Reds than he is to other teams?  There are some guys, say Doug Mientkiewicz, who wouldn't really benefit from playing in Cincy as much as Dunn, because Mientkiewicz is a different type of hitter.

And FWIW, Dunn's PECOTA card has his estimated 2007 salary, if he was a free agent, at about $12M.  I guess this keeps your star player happy, and it's not a huge long-term contract, so I'd say it's probably a good contract, despite the potential risks a player of Dunn's type brings with him.

by ubelmann on Feb 14, 2006 11:34 AM PST reply actions  

Re: Park effects
GAB's HR factor for lefties: 117
GAB's HR factor for righties: 116

It's not a stadium that works specifically for Dunn - it works for everyone. If he were playing somewhere like Safeco, then I'd buy it, but not here.

Also, PECOTA's Similarity Score for Dunn is 6, so I'm not really going to trust it on this one. It's a good deal for the Reds in that it locks up one of the team's stars for a few years, which is important for a mid-market rebuilding organization, but it's a bad deal in that I don't think Dunn really deserves that much money.

by Jeff Sullivan on Feb 14, 2006 11:49 AM PST up reply actions  

Check out Dunn's splits, though...
Over the last three years (the only three years in the existence of the GAB), Dunn has

Home: 67 HRs
Road: 46 HRs

Home: 740 ABs
Road: 752 ABs

Which puts his rates at:

Home: 0.091 HR/AB
Road: 0.061 HR/AB

That gives him a HR factor of something like 149, if he played in reasonably neutral parks on the road, which is likely a decent assumption, spending his time in the NL Central.

Even though 700+ ABs is a lot of data, say you want to regress that to the mean a bit, I'll split the difference and say that his HR factor should be at least something like 133, which is still a good bit better than 117.

GAB is great at turning fly balls into HRs, but it still can't help you make a ground ball into a HR.  That Dunn has about a 0.70 GB/FB ratio means that the GAB is going to help him hit more HRs than someone like a Doug Mientkiewicz, who's had about a 1.16 GB/FB ratio over the last three years.

Generic park factors are great for getting a first approximation to the park effect for a guy, but when you have three years worth of data, and a good reason to think the park factor for an individual should differ from the generic factor (like Dunn's flyball tendancies), then I think you need to look more at a player's splits than at the generic park factor.

by ubelmann on Feb 14, 2006 12:20 PM PST up reply actions  

True enough.
And it's the same argument you see when people talk about Paul Konerko being worth more to the White Sox than to most other teams. It's definitely a valid point.

I suppose what it comes down to is, how much extra value does Dunn provide for the Reds by virtue of playing in GAB over somebody else who might not have the same flyball tendencies? Is it worth $31m over two years of arbitration and one of free agency, particularly when he can't play anywhere but 1B (and even there not very well)? I'm skeptical. It's not that bad of a deal, but I don't think it's one I'd make. There almost has to be better value on the trade market.

by Jeff Sullivan on Feb 14, 2006 12:54 PM PST up reply actions  

I could agree with that...
"There almost has to be better value on the trade market."

Looking at what the Rangers got for Soriano, and some other deals recently, I'd agree with you.  Heck, for Dunn, the Reds could have maybe even done something really crazy, like make a play for Aaron Rowand and a pitcher from the White Sox, to help patch up their rotation and their defensive issues in CF.  And, Dunn would still be a pretty valuable DH for the White Sox.

Anyway, I think your point that Dunn's perceived value is higher than his actual value is a good one.

by ubelmann on Feb 14, 2006 1:07 PM PST up reply actions  

Addendum:
Apparently the 2008 option is voided if Dunn gets dealt.

by Jeff Sullivan on Feb 14, 2006 1:26 PM PST reply actions  

Also...
it's very possible they could still trade Austin Kearns to move Dunn back to left field and open a spot up for newly-signed Scott Hatteberg.

by jameslcrockett on Feb 14, 2006 3:55 PM PST reply actions  

Reds Fan Perspective
Dunn is an exceptional athlete (QB at U.Texas, etc.), whose athletic ability (and height) lets him get away with bad instincts in the field.  I think that's mostly a function of not having much baseball experience at all (QB at U.Texas, etc.).  He looked a lot better as the season went on last year, but that may have just been because I was comparing him to Wily Mo Pena.  

Baserunning is still an adventure, but he is fast.

As for park effects, I'm really not sure they matter.  Dunn sees the ball well at GABP, but his homers would be out of any park.  Twenty-four of his forty homers last year were longer than 400 feet; only three were less than 360 feet; and only one was less than 350.  

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/6763/home_runs.html

by RedFan on Feb 14, 2006 5:46 PM PST reply actions  

Park effects matter.
Read up a few comments. He's hit nearly 50% more home runs at home than on the road. That's big.

by Jeff Sullivan on Feb 14, 2006 6:05 PM PST up reply actions  

Tailor made ...
For Safeco.  Just kidding.  He might do ok here because of our ridiculous LH HR factors (I don't have the #'s handy, but it's huge).  I've heard comparisons calling him a LH Sexson.  I think those are over blown.  Sexson is a better hitter.  The line would have been like 44 HR in a neutral park.  I don't have the LH/RH HR park factors handy, but safeco KILLS RH homerun power.  I personally don't think it affects Sexson as much (I think it does effect him) as some hitters, because he's not as pull-centric as a lot of similar hitters (he actually hits the ball all over the place).  In fact he hit more of his dingers the other way at Safeco!

Dunn is totally a pull hitter.  Like I said, I wouldn't mind him as say DH or LF for the right price, as I don't think Safeco would kill his power like it would Paul Konerko's.  I wouldn't pay him that much.

by chrisisasavage on Feb 15, 2006 11:15 AM PST up reply actions  

Spray Charts
That being said, it's difficult to acertain who'll be successful at various parks using hit charts (especially the ones at MLB.com), however they can give you an idea of who hits the ball where, and how hard.  RH, all-pull, 3 true outcome type power, at Safeco is not something I would spend too much on.  Sexson is not that.  He's a 3 true outcome guy, but he hits the ball all over the plavce.  I might be tempted to take a LH equivalent, but I still wouldn't spend too much on it.

A-Rod hits the ball hard to all fields.  He'd succeed anywhere.  Pujols pulls the ball a bit, but he hits the ball hard, a lot of the home runs are way outside the fences (according to the charts I'vew seen), so he wouldn't be hurt much if at all by a place like Safeco.  He might take a little hit in the power, but I doubt not enough to matter.  He hits the ball very hard, a lot of the time.

However, someone like Paul Konerko would scare the crap out of me if they were to have signed him.  He's a total pull RH power hitter.  The prospect of bringing one of those into Safeco scares me a little.  

by chrisisasavage on Feb 15, 2006 11:25 AM PST up reply actions  

Dunn *would* be neat in Safeco.
I'd say he's the perfect kind of hitter for our park.

Playing in an environment that's well-suited for his strengths is the only way he'll have a shot at earning that money.

by Jeff Sullivan on Feb 15, 2006 11:45 AM PST up reply actions  

Could've been clearer
I know that park effects matter, generally, but I'm just saying that when Dunn hits a homer, it's gone in any park.  He might hit better at home becuase he sees the ball better there, or because he likes the white pants, or because he used to have a nice massage chair in the locker room.  I'm just saying it's not the fence distances, or the way the ball carries there.  He's not a guy who hits fence scrapers at home, and warning track flies on the road.

by RedFan on Feb 15, 2006 6:36 PM PST up reply actions  

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