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Around SBN: Jerry Sandusky's Wife Tries To Run A Reporter Over

Breathe.

Don't die.

Moving on, while nothing's been announced officially yet, I've become resigned to the fact that Raffy Soriano really is being swapped for Horacio Ramirez. To believe otherwise is something of an illegitimate pipe dream, and the chances that it doesn't go down are roughly equivalent to those of a bunch of physicists waking up tomorrow and saying "just kidding about gravity." You'd be relying on an awful lot of people being wrong, and given how widespread the story has gotten over the past few hours, that just doesn't make very much sense.

The trade sucked when I heard about it, it sucks now, and it'll suck for the next several seasons. To make things worse, it seemed like after the initial report there was a glimmer of hope that it wasn't true, but then that fantasy came crashing down as well. I've always argued that the easiest way to make somebody happy is to take away something they care about and then give it back. With that in mind, rumors that the deal wasn't legitimate after all sent each of us into a euphoric tizzy. But here's the problem - if you take that precious thing away again, it hurts even more than the first time. So now I'm even more upset than I was six hours ago. This blows.

I want to make one thing clear - although the trade is egregiously lopsided, that's not necessarily what I'm even the most angry about. My biggest issue is that Horacio Ramirez does absolutely nothing that John Thomson couldn't do. Yeah, okay, he throws with the other hand, but at the end of the day you're talking about an ERA in the mid-4's over 180 innings provided the guy stays healthy. And while Ramirez'll stick around an extra year or three, Thomson's track record suggests considerably more upside, and there are guys like him available every winter anyway so it's not like Ramirez's contract status gives him a big advantage. Rather than pay $4m for an established free agent #4 starter, Bill Bavasi decided to give up Rafael Soriano instead. That is a colossal waste of what was easily our most valuable and tradeable asset.

The things Horacio Ramirez does well are greatly overshadowed by the things he doesn't. His control isn't super, he never misses bats, and his groundball rate isn't mindblowingly extreme. He's nowhere close to Chien-Ming Wang's ball-in-play profile, so we can't expect him to have close to Chien-Ming Wang's level of success. He's just a random guy with boring stuff who'd be out of the league if he had to spend a year or two in front of a lousy infield defense. In Seattle he's probably good for an ERA in the 4.50-5.00 range, with a little extra upside given the park and the shortstop. But these aren't advantages of Ramirez's - they apply to everyone, so who cares? Anyone can get lucky. That doesn't make them prudent acquisitions.

As for Soriano...well, I've always loved him, and I wish him the best of success in Atlanta, but it's going to be rough watching him mow people down for someone else. I'll tell you right now that the head injury isn't a concern at all anymore. He feels great, he feels confident, and he's hitting 93-94 in the Dominican Republic as we speak, so there don't appear to be any problems. The question's always going to be about the health of his arm, yet while he hasn't been the most reliable guy in the past, the Mariners managed to squeeze 60 innings out of him before a freak accident at the end of August, so it's not like we're definitely talking about a guy who's on the verge of blowing up. He's a fragile guy who, handled correctly, could and should be a hell of a pitcher for a very long time. And he's not ours anymore. Because of Horacio Ramirez.

Earlier this afternoon, I was pretty sure that the Mariners wouldn't have let Jason Schmidt go to LA for three years if they didn't have something else lined up to patch the rotation. Now I don't know what to think. Either (A) I was wrong, and they weren't as interested in Schmidt as they sounded, or (B) this is what they had lined up. I'm not sure which I'd prefer.

Who knows where this leaves us. The team still needs to add a starter, and nobody's going to come to the ballpark if they have to put up with Felix and a host of #4's, so the front office is going to poke around looking for an arm with name value to try and make everyone happy. The problem is, there aren't many out there. Schmidt was one, but he's gone. Hudson's another, but apparently that ship has sailed. Zito's going to get too many years. Suppan, Weaver, or Meche would be a disgrace. Penny's going to cost a small fortune. And so on. Unless Bavasi pulls something creative out of his ass, the disappointment might not end here. This sleigh ride to perdition may just be getting started.

Given all the prominent Manny and LaRoche rumors we've heard in the past few days, I was more than a little excited that the Mariners might finally do something I love to bring in a major talent. Now though, I can't help but think that the worst part of all this is that there's still plenty more offseason left.

After three consecutive last-place finishes and a promise that 2007 would be different, nobody deserves to be this frustrated during what's supposed to be the most exhilarating part of the offseason. Merry f-ing Christmas.

Thanks, Bill.

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Your 2007 Seattle Mariner Rotation:
Felix
Washburn
Ramirez
Ohka
Woods/Baek.

Last place, here we come.  Again.

by tait644 on Dec 6, 2006 9:05 PM PST reply actions  

This tream is a train wreck
What are the chances that Bill Bavasi is the M's GM next year?  

I want that man gone.  

Obviously, you don't want to make snap decisions based on one disappointing decision.  

But today, the M's prospects for a successful 2007 went from encouraging to bleak.  In 24 hours.  

Go back and look at Dave's predictions at USSM.  That was a few days ago.  Now look at the possibilities.  This is a complete disaster.  

I hope that Bavasi is not so irretrievably stupid to go after the likes of Zito.  

Not to pile on the bitching, but: If you are Ichiro, would you be excited about resigning with this club right now?  

Right now, IMO, the best way forward is to tear down this club.  Rebuild.  Sell Sexson.  Trade Ichiro.  Move everything that isn't nailed down for prospects.  

With nearly nothing left in free agency, and the trade market cooling off considerably, the M's could do well as sellers.  

Burn the house down.  

by Jerry on Dec 6, 2006 9:10 PM PST reply actions  

If there's an upside
at least Bavasi hasn't added any unnecessary long-term contracts this winter (yet).

Still, this is pretty unforgiveable.

by Jeff Sullivan on Dec 6, 2006 9:12 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, but what now?
You're right about not adding bad contracts as it stands right now.  

But Bavasi just added a cheap guy to the rotation.  They still have a lot of money to spend.  

I don't see Bavasi signing Thomson and calling it good.  

The M's are going to go after a big-ticket player.  And that is the scariest thing.  Who is it going to be?  

I don't see anyone who is not a horrible idea right now.  As it stands, Schmidt seems like a great option.  Thats how bad things have gotten.    

by Jerry on Dec 6, 2006 9:16 PM PST up reply actions  

See what I said below.
Cheaping out on the rotation is a nice setup for Barry.

by eponymous coward on Dec 6, 2006 9:34 PM PST up reply actions  

Yep
But your point is dead-on.  We could be in the same damn boat and still have Soriano on the team.

Instead of bitching about Ramirez, we'd be angry about missing out on Schmidt, or the Manny deal, which, in retrospect, really aren't that horrible of developments.

by tait644 on Dec 6, 2006 9:19 PM PST up reply actions  

Thomson seemed like such a good fit.
Seriously, what the hell, dude?

This is one of those rare trades that's 100% impossible to spin in one of the teams' favor.

by Jeff Sullivan on Dec 6, 2006 9:21 PM PST up reply actions  

Heh.
That's some benchmark.

By that thinking, we might as well take measures to improve this country's national defense with something incrementally better than the Maginot Line.

by Jeff Sullivan on Dec 6, 2006 9:29 PM PST up reply actions  

Meh
Not the worst Mariners trade in the last 10 years either. </optimism>
Willie Bloomquist and Mike Hargrove suck

by Mariner John on Dec 6, 2006 9:33 PM PST up reply actions  

I Agree
"We don't need don't need not water...."

I would rather see the M's get a giant enema than to watch another year of constipated, dead end baseball. At least starting over gives you hope. Then again, I don't know if I'd trust Bavasi right now to be the one making those deals.  If I were Ichiro, I wouldn't be signing. Beltre, Ichiro, Sexon, Johjima...line em up and get em gone. Shoot for the division in 2010. Damnit.

by anotherjeff on Dec 6, 2006 9:18 PM PST up reply actions  

Must be great
for guys like Schuerholz to spot the village retard at the Winter Meetings.

by Paytheline on Dec 6, 2006 9:13 PM PST reply actions  

that
was harsh but i dont think bavasi would care if he heard he probably gets thAT alot. I dont think trading Ichiro would be so hot tho he brings in alot of money in fans and merchandise.

by ZeZetheX on Dec 6, 2006 9:17 PM PST up reply actions  

Bavasi does look like a damn freak
So he's probably thick-skinned by this point...

by tait644 on Dec 6, 2006 9:20 PM PST up reply actions  

Hilarious!
I can't think of a better description of Bavasi other than being the "village retard."

by Wilder83 on Dec 6, 2006 9:22 PM PST up reply actions  

Jerry Brings up a Valid Point
Ichiro is probably paying close attention to the M's activities this winter.

I have been skeptical of his re-signing since last offseason; now I am even more sure that he won't be here in 2008.

by tait644 on Dec 6, 2006 9:16 PM PST reply actions  

Merry fucking christmas
Old St.Nick's got burbon breath
It's so cold you could catch your death.
A cop sold me some crystal meth,
It's a Merry Fucking Christmas.

Everythings so Christmasy
The streets are filled with frozen pee
A priest just sat on Santa's knee
It's a Merry Fucking Christmas.

All the kids go to bed each night
to dream what Santa brings them
Unless your Jewish, or Muslim
or some other jipped religion.

Crappy toys flying off the shelves
Midgets dressed to look like elves
Spread good chear or burn in hell
It's a Merry Fucking Christmas.

All the kids go to bed each night
to dream what Santa brings them
Unless your Jewish, or Muslim
or some other jipped religion.

Crackling fire to keep me warm
and my collection of asian porn
cradle my bells and work my horn

It's a keep on trucking
vodka sucking
midget chucking
slap the puck in
how much wood could a woodchuck chucking
MERRY FUCKING CHRISTMAS!!!

ho ho ho! SHUT UP!

Aici zace un om despre care nu se ştie prea mult.

by Goose on Dec 6, 2006 9:16 PM PST reply actions  

This is what sucks
Bavasi traded a pitcher with an injury riddled past for a pitcher with an injury riddled past.

Our pitcher was one of the best relief pitchers in the majors with aspirations of starting again. The pitcher we are getting is essentially the left handed verison of bad Pineiro or Ryan Franklin.

It weakens the M's chances of improving in the now by dealing our most marketable ML piece for pennies on the dollar.

Just sad. Anyone have a guess on what's next? Sexson for Rodrigo Lopez? Adam Jones and Jeff Clement for Mike Maroth? I for one, can't wait.

by Trent on Dec 6, 2006 9:18 PM PST reply actions  

Totaly
the Ms best signing this offseason mite end up being  
jose guillen. tear hopefully this is just a might scenario.

by ZeZetheX on Dec 6, 2006 9:26 PM PST up reply actions  

It's still just a game
*runs*
Willie Bloomquist and Mike Hargrove suck

by Mariner John on Dec 6, 2006 9:20 PM PST reply actions  

It's a crying shame!
God I hate Ben Affleck.
"The list of Mariners I'd go gay for seems to be growing by the day."

"You gonna start hitting on Gomez at the next LL night?"

by Christian on Dec 6, 2006 9:21 PM PST up reply actions  

If today has proven anything
It's that it's much much more than just a game to us.

Seriously, I put my life on hold today just to find out what was going to happen. Now I kinda hate myself for doing so.

Aici zace un om despre care nu se ştie prea mult.

by Goose on Dec 6, 2006 9:23 PM PST up reply actions  

True
Willie Bloomquist and Mike Hargrove suck

by Mariner John on Dec 6, 2006 9:28 PM PST up reply actions  

Jeff
Lovely writing.  It might be the best thing associated with the Mariners this offseason.
"The list of Mariners I'd go gay for seems to be growing by the day."

"You gonna start hitting on Gomez at the next LL night?"

by Christian on Dec 6, 2006 9:20 PM PST reply actions  

Can't wait to see Hargrove
Manage this team in 2007.  This team is shaping up to be far from idiot proof.

by ThundaPC on Dec 6, 2006 9:24 PM PST reply actions  

I'll take A.
I think Bavasi (and upper management) have looked at the FA market, the J League bidding, and said "fuck this, we're not going to overpay for longterm contracts.We already HAVE one Jarrod Washburn; we don't need three by 2009".

This is the right thing to do for the longterm value of the franchise. Where it sucks is that it leaves you with a .500 club unless you make other moves, since Felix pitching up to his xFIP + a bunch of 4's (aka last year's rotation with different names) + somewhat improved offense without the Everett/Reed/Jones suckfest probably gets you 82 wins or so.

And OK, I'll admit it, Soriano's the better pitcher (when healthy). Y'all happy now?

And all you Bonds fans, cheer up: Barry's probably the only impact player out there who Bill could get for a 20/1 contract, and at this point, it makes sense:

Ichiro
Lopez
Bonds
Sexson
Raul
Beltre
Johjima
Guillen
Yuni

Doyle
WFB
Rivera/Johnson
Morse

Felix
Washburn
Ramirez
Thomson or some facsimile thereof
Baek/Woods/Lehr/Feierabend

Putz
Sherrill
Fruto
Green
Three of Woods/Baek/Lehr/Bazardo

Broussard gets traded for whatever he can fetch.

That, to me, is a team that likely gets Bavasi fired, because Bonds is a headcase, and the rotation's not very strong, unless Bonds decides it's 2004 and does .300/.450/.550 again in the friendly confines of Safeco,and very little goes wrong.

And since y'all know how I feel about Barry...well...it's a hard team for me to like.

by eponymous coward on Dec 6, 2006 9:28 PM PST reply actions  

And then
beltre and Jose guillen can pretend its 2004 to!

by ZeZetheX on Dec 6, 2006 9:34 PM PST up reply actions  

Hmm. Yet another contradiction
to a topic that has already been filled with contradiction after contradiction. The Braves MLB.com website The Braves MLB.com website is stating that the deal is not complete and is still awaiting approval from M's medical staff.

A small glimmer of hope remains....

by Trent on Dec 6, 2006 9:36 PM PST reply actions  

Please God
please show the complete absence of an arm or something in Ramirez's MRI.

by Jeff Sullivan on Dec 6, 2006 9:40 PM PST up reply actions  

Careful what you wish for.
Anyone remember the cheering when Vizquel'a physical failed?

At which point, we ended up with... Rich Aurilia.

by eponymous coward on Dec 6, 2006 9:42 PM PST up reply actions  

And Ramon Santiago.
But still, here's to an arm coming out of Ramirez's forehead.
Willie Bloomquist and Mike Hargrove suck

by Mariner John on Dec 6, 2006 9:44 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, but
seeing it on the official team site kind of makes you want to die a little, right?

by Garces on Dec 7, 2006 12:22 AM PST up reply actions  

A number 3 level starter?
How the hell do they figure that?
Aici zace un om despre care nu se ştie prea mult.

by Goose on Dec 7, 2006 12:23 AM PST up reply actions  

They were talking about
Ramirez's new World of Warcraft character.

by Garces on Dec 7, 2006 12:33 AM PST up reply actions  

Hehe
Unfortunately the line between Mariner satire and Mariner fact is becoming increasingly blurred...

by Alex B on Dec 8, 2006 3:57 AM PST up reply actions  

Stop it
Just let me die in peace.

by Rollo Tomasi on Dec 6, 2006 9:41 PM PST up reply actions  

Ya
don't remind us of our brutal past mistakes.

by ZeZetheX on Dec 6, 2006 9:43 PM PST up reply actions  

PLEASE BE ON ROIDS
RAFFY OR HARACIO!!
WIN IT FOR RAFFY!!!

by MFAN on Dec 6, 2006 10:36 PM PST up reply actions  

Stupid
I'm trying to drink myself as stupid as Bavasi tonight but an alcohol poisoning induced death is probably not the best idea at this point.

by RavingGoat on Dec 6, 2006 9:43 PM PST reply actions  

Trade Sexson and Ichiro for prospects?
Does anyone around here trust the current M's administration to trade for the right prospects?  I'm not too impressed with deals in the last few years that involved "highly" rated propects.  Morse?  Reed?  Foppert?  I don't understand the makeup of our team like most of you, but I truly believe billyboybavasi would do nothing but fuck the mariners future for 7-10 years by trading Ichiro and whoever else for young prospects...my two cents.

by tmoney96 on Dec 6, 2006 9:52 PM PST reply actions  

well
as soon as bavasi is gone reed fopert and morse will disapear from the mariners magically.

by ZeZetheX on Dec 6, 2006 9:54 PM PST up reply actions  

Would you rather have the wrong prospects than
No draft pick when they "forget" to offer Ichiro arbitration?

Foppert wasn't a great idea but Reed/Morse/Olivo was okay, it just didn't turn out well and that's a risk you take.

by Josh @ Lookout Landing on Dec 6, 2006 10:12 PM PST up reply actions  

Value
Yeah, but look at what the M's were trading in those deals.  

Richie Sexson > Randy Winn

Ichiro >>> Freddy Garcia

I am hoping that the M's open their eyes, realize that things are really really bleak right now, and put these guys on the trade block.  

The lack of viable options for the M's makes contending unlikely.  But the lack of viable options also makes Ichiro and Sexson very attractive to the other teams out there.  

Think about the types of packages the M's would have in front of them if the Red Sox, the White Sox, the Angels, and Dodgers got into a bidding war for Ichiro.  

With Sexson, it seems like the Yankees, Orioles, and Giants should still have some interest.  If the M's go into rebuild mode, they could eat a good chunk of Sexson's salary to maximize the return.  

Oh course, doing this would be far above the intelligence threshold that this organization has displayed this offseason.  But they should do this.  

Unfortunately, I think we are going to have to wait until next offseason, when Bavasi's successor comes in, to have a set of offseason moves that in any way resembles a coherent plan.  Hopefully, Bavasi is canned early, and the M's can bring in someone like Chris Antonetti to tear the club down, and start over again.  

by Jerry on Dec 7, 2006 7:23 AM PST up reply actions  

I can't believe this move
means the Mariners are automatically worse than the '62 Mets.
Willie Bloomquist and Mike Hargrove suck. Horacio Ramirez doesn't suck but is way worse than Soriano.

by Mariner John on Dec 6, 2006 10:04 PM PST reply actions  

we'll get this through this
together everyone.
WIN IT FOR RAFFY!!!

by MFAN on Dec 6, 2006 10:35 PM PST reply actions  

Heh.
Check out my new sig.  Yeah, we'll get through this.
Iceberg, right ahead!

by PositivePaul on Dec 6, 2006 11:16 PM PST up reply actions  

I'll be happy...
If Bavasi doesn't make any more moves/trades/signings... STAY THE FUCK AWAY FROM OUR PLAYERS... You're just going to fuck us over more, stay away you bald bastard, and take fucking Horacio Ramirez with you on your way out.

Damn!

by Emerald on Dec 7, 2006 12:58 AM PST reply actions  

Well said Jeff
Sad sad day in Mariner land. It's going to be so hard dealing w. another non playoff year. Another not even close to playoff year.

by phil333 on Dec 7, 2006 2:32 AM PST reply actions  

ira500
The possibility was mentioned that perhaps Bavasi is going to pull something creative from his ass. Funny, I never thought of dingleberries as creative.

by ira500 on Dec 7, 2006 6:46 AM PST reply actions  

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