Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Africa Cup Of Nations Semifinal: Black Stars Ripe For Upset?

Why Aaron Sele is a Bad Idea

I had hoped it wouldn't come to this, but recent events in Arizona have turned this into a pressing issue.

Aaron Sele was once a pretty good pitcher. A first-round draft pick in 1991, he was pitching out of Boston's rotation within two years, putting up a 3.32 ERA as a starter before succumbing to muscle atrophy in his shoulder in 1995. Sele returned to the Red Sox a year later, showing a higher strikeout rate but simultaneously watching his ERA jump by 149 points over his 1994 figure. The reason? Bad defense. Look at how Sele's team defenses ranked over a four-year stretch:

1996, Boston: worst Defensive Efficiency in the AL
1997, Boston: third-worst
1998, Texas: worst
1999: second-worst

Over that span, Sele fanned more than seven batters per nine innings while limiting walks and home runs in hitter-friendly environments; the 4.88 combined ERA in those four years doesn't do justice to how effective Sele was in his prime. Able to keep his famed 12-9 curveball down in the zone, Sele still needed the guys behind him to convert balls in play into outs, but consistently porous infields and plodding outfields led to a cumulative .336 BABIP that killed his ERA.

Still a reliable pitcher with 128 games started over the previous four seasons, Sele was brought to Seattle in his age-30 season, where he rode an improved defensive unit to 32 wins and a decent ERA over two years.

Mariners fans remember Sele as a consistent #3 starter in the magical 2001 season, but the defense and spacious home ballpark masked an early decline that became all too apparent upon signing with Anaheim in 2002. Three years, 75 starts, and $24m later, all Sele has to show for his time in California is a 5.20 ERA and a scar on his shoulder. Now 34, the righty had to settle for a minor league contract with a familiar organization.

It's not without reason. Take a look at how his peripherals have progressed since peaking in 1999:

Aaron Sele's strikeout rate has decreased every year for five consecutive seasons, from 20.3% in 1999 to 8.6% in 2004. This loss of strikeouts has coincided with an increased (unintentional) walk rate and a slight bump in home runs. To make things worse, he's lost the ability to stay low in the zone, leaving more pitches up and turning into a slight flyball pitcher, where he used to be able to induce groundballs fairly regularly.

It doesn't help that there are endurance conerns. Once a guy who could throw 100 pitches a start without a problem, Sele has averaged just 84 per game over the last two years, seeing his innings/start plummet from 6.1 in 1998 to just over 5 last season.

Let's do a direct comparison between Sele and the guy he hopes to replace, using the 03/04 seasons as the data sample (in other words, since Ryan Franklin became a full-time starter):

Fans who have grown sick of Franklin's act aren't going to get any relief from Aaron Sele. Although he allows fewer homers, Sele falls short in each of the other categories, and I don't know anyone who would be willing to tolerate a K/BB around one just for the sake of saving an extra home run every 100 batters. As I mentioned earlier about Damian Moss, it's impossible to have consistent, sustained success as a pitcher if you're walking as many guys as you're striking out; hoping that Sele can catch lightning in a bottle for a year, when every indicator is pointing in the wrong direction, is a fool's errand.

There are three reasons commonly mentioned as support for Aaron Sele's push for the rotation:

(1) He's having a good spring
(2) He's not Ryan Franklin
(3) Like Jeff Nelson, he's a familiar name who conjures memories of the last great Mariners team

The thing is, spring stats don't matter, he's worse than Ryan Franklin, and the last great Mariners team also featured Mike Cameron and Carlos Guillen, who the organization let get away a year ago.

There is one particularly powerful argument against Sele breaking camp in the rotation: he's not an upgrade over any of the returning candidates. When we're looking at a division that could be decided by just one or two games, a division so balanced that we're talking about promoting Felix Hernandez to give the team an added boost, giving a bunch of starts to Aaron Sele will only serve to worsen the team's chances at competing, while forcing somebody else off the roster.

Ryan Franklin represents Aaron Sele's potential upside. With luck, the team will realize this when it comes time to name the rotation, and let Sele peddle his trade elsewhere.

Comment 8 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

Amen
My thoughts are... Sele might have something left in the tank or he might not, but he should be looking to hook up with a team that is expected to be in a race that might need a #4 or #5 starter that could give him a shot....

instead of trying to resurrect his career with a team not expecting to contend.

by MfaninAlaska on Mar 15, 2005 3:16 PM PST reply actions  

Nice
Great post.  Really eye-opening.  I had no idea that Sele's K rate had dropped that precipitously.  I thought of Sele and Franklin as pretty much equal.

by PT on Mar 15, 2005 3:49 PM PST reply actions  

Thank You
While I've defended Ryan Franklin, I'd really like to see someone else take his spot in the rotation. However, this "Anyone but Franklin" attitude is just ridiculous. Sele doesn't do anything as well as Franklin. He's not more effective, he doesn't pitch as deep into games and he certainly isn't as healthy as Franklin. Sele making the team would be absolutely stupid and pointless because it wastes a roster spot on a player that downgrades the team while blocking other more talented pitchers. There is no reason for a retooling team to go with a veteran stop gap unless it has a gaping hole, like we do at shortstop. Since we have lots of interesting pitchers available, we should spend this season sifting through the options and deciding on who to keep.

Aaron Sele has no business wearing a Mariners uniform next season.

by Aaron @ Lookout Landing on Mar 15, 2005 4:27 PM PST reply actions  

Uh, we're all forgetting some things.
I pointed this out in another thread, but this discussion is about a universe where we aren't looking at being down a starter (Piniero) AND a bullpen guy (Guardado) come opening day. In the real world, though, we almost certainly will have those roster spots open.

Keep in mind that Franklin actually has a quality that makes him useful in a bullpen- a rubber arm (can go over 3 IP on short notice, no injury history that makes odd work schedules problematic).

In this world, I don't have an issue with giving Sele a spot in the rotation, especially with him doing very well during his May starts last year, as sucktastic as he was for the year overall. I look at him as disposable rotation filler (expendable as soon as he starts pitching like, well, Aaron Sele as of post A-S break 2004) so he won't be "blocking" anyone at all, any more than the rotation filler that Billy Beane uses in between calling up interesting kids like Harden. You can promote the hot hand from Tacoma, or plug Franklin back in, or whatever. Not a big deal, in my book.

by eponymous coward on Mar 15, 2005 11:08 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Uh, we're all forgetting some things.
Unless something goes horribly wrong, neither Pineiro nor Guardado are going to be DL'd for Opening Day. Besides, the team won't need a fifth starter until the 18th, by which point everyone should be healthy.

Aaron Sele is a non-roster player. Adding him to the rotation would not only make the team worse, but it would force somebody off the 40-man for the sake of adding a guy who shouldn't be used for more than an emergency start or two.

As for Franklin in the bullpen, I'm all for it if it means we've added a better starter to the rotation. This isn't one of those times, though.

by Jeff Sullivan on Mar 16, 2005 5:28 AM PST up reply actions  

It's ALREADY going horribly wrong.
Unless something goes horribly wrong, neither Pineiro nor Guardado are going to be DL'd for Opening Day. Besides, the team won't need a fifth starter until the 18th, by which point everyone should be healthy.

Look, spring training's more than halfway over (counting from when pitchers reported), and Guardado and Pineiro have been shut down for a while. I just don't see how they are ready for Opening Day (especially Piniero)- or WHY we should push them.

And as for the 40-man- Rafael Soriano goes to the 60 day DL. Boom, there's your 40 man spot for Sele. Next...

I just have a hard time thinking "OH NOES, WE HAVE A VETERAN PITCHER WHO'S NOT LIKELY TO BE GOOD ON OUR STAFF!!1111" as a sign of doom. It didn't doom the Angels in 2002 and 2004, now, did it? It's more of a sign that the pitching staff's not very good, that we have to take flyers on Sele.

Plus, let's see at the stats so far:

Sele: 2.57 ERA
Campillo: 4.50 ERA
Baek: 5.00 ERA
Thornton: 12.26 ERA
Reichert: 15.00 ERA

Let's assume this is how it basically plays out- Sele outperforms everyone else for the rest of spring training.

Why the hell should you invite people to Spring Training on NRI's if, when they actually outperform other people, you're going to say "Nah, screw that, your WHIPs last year were awful, we're going with the guy who pitches decent at AAA and keeps getting jocked in the majors"? Or for that matter, why should someone accept an invitation to your camp perform for you if the performance is meaningless, and he has no chance of making the roster?

I thought the POINT of NRI's was "Hey, we'll take a flyer, maybe we'll get lucky". Well, you can't get lucky if, when the NRI performs well, you dump his ass...

by eponymous coward on Mar 16, 2005 9:46 AM PST reply actions  

I'm OK with argument #2...
I cannot argue that his stats have declined.  Stats are stats, and no matter how you can always skew them, they're about as close to fact as we have in baseball. In spite of being in favor of Sele over Franklin, even I can accept that statistically, Franklin has an edge.

However, the one thing that is defintely arguable is why his numbers have taken a huge decline.    Is it because of the general career decline that hits players after 30? Is it because of his major shoulder surgery?  Is it both?  I tend to think that it's the third reason -- he's obviously going to decline, and in his case the evidence suggests that his career decline is being accelerated by his shoulder injury.  

If, though, the injury has healed enough for Sele to have regained most of his strength (and with the kind of injury he sustained, it'd take a few years to get that strength back, especially for a guy over 30), and he's able to find the strike zone again, he'd definitely be a servicable #5 starter.  The biggest question I have to ask is WHY has the strikeout ratio so drastically decreased?  If it's a Meche-like chickenness to throw strikes, then that may be fixable.  If it's because he just can't plain pitch anymore, then fine -- we're not losing a ton by jettisoning him.  It's not like he's 42 and trying to keep his career alive, he's only 35.  Franklin's 32, so he's not THAT much younger than Sele (and therefore doesn't have much age-related upside).  And, unlike Franklin, Sele has had success before.

I also understand the youth movement blockage issue that Sele would create.  I'd rather have Felix in Seattle than Sele.  Beyond that, who's even close to being ready?  Maybe Baek, I suppose, but neither Nageotte nor Thornton seem to be able to stick in the rotation, and Blackley's out with an injury.  Where are all these starting pitchers that Sele would be blocking?    

Folks over at the PI Blog can tell you that I was HUGELY irate when we gave him an NRI.  Aaron left a bad taste in my mouth with his postseason performance.  I was not at all disappointed when he left town and didn't want him to come back. Indeed he's become a pretty crappy pitcher.  I'll admit, though, that I'm now a fool for hoping Sele can "catch lightning in a bottle" and somewhat bounce back.

Still, I'm so averse to Ryan Franklin that I'm willing to deal with Aaron Sele's suckiness instead of his.  It's the same thing that would make me abhorr the M's if we landed Barry Bonds.  Yes, Bonds is one of the best hitters in the league with some extra-terrestrial statistics the past few years.  But I would rather have Griffey and his blown hammy 12 days a week.  In the same fashion, I'd rather have Aaron Sele than Ryan Franklin 12 days a week.  As far as I care, Sele can have Franklin's roster spot.  

Go M's! http://marinersmorsels.blogspot.com

by PositivePaul on Mar 16, 2005 10:13 AM PST reply actions  

Don't think that at all...
...but if you're going to invite veterans on NRI's, and they outperform your kids and you STILL dump them, what was the point of inviting them?

Personally, I'm fine with a back-end of a rotation that fluctuates on the basis of "who has the hot hand today?" If you recall, Joel came up as the 5th starter in 2001 partway through the season after Tomko, Halama and Denny Stark all got shots in the rotation, and Halama was pretty awful. Beane did something similar with Halama for the  2003 A's (yanked him once Harden showed he was ready).

There's nothing wrong with rewarding a good spring training performance with some starts early in the year (assuming Sele doesn't get taterific before we leave Peoria). If he flops come June, by that time you should have a larger sample size of who's ready in Tacoma, or you can plug in Franklin, who will likely give you some effective bullpen innings until then.

And who knows, maybe Aaron Sele is getting this year's Jose Lima Fairy Dust sprinkled on him...note that Lima's numbers for his KC stint in 2003 were pretty awful, after washing out in Detroit.

by eponymous coward on Mar 16, 2005 1:08 PM PST up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

By reading a game thread of your own volition you agree to accept all liability for any and all damage done to your delicate sensibilities.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Moar_bacon_small
Everything I Know About Jesus Montero

Recent FanPosts

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >


Sexy People

Wbc_029_small Jeff Sullivan

Small Matthew