More On Guillen
All right, let's break this down.
What Happened: The Mariners declined to offer arbitration to Jose Guillen.
What It Means: They won't get a sandwich pick between the first and second rounds of next year's draft as compensation.
Why It Happened: Depending on who you believe, the Mariners either (A) didn't want to risk Guillen accepting, since he's not in their plans, or (B) wanted to distance themselves from Guillen's off-the-field issues, particularly the whole steroid thing.
Why (A) Shouldn't Really Be An Issue: For one thing, it's unlikely that Guillen would want to come back on a one-year contract. He's going to get other offers, and the Royals are probably going to want to sign him to a multi-year deal. The steroid thing is unfortunate, but it's in the past, and it's not going to kill the market value of a 31 year old right fielder coming off a big year in a tough park.
But for another, even in the exceedingly unlikely event that Guillen accepted arbitration, we'd be sitting pretty. An intelligent front office would view that as an opportunity to put Jones in left, keep Guillen in right, and move Sexson somewhere else to make room for Ibanez at first. With one year left to go, Sexson can be traded, and that whole thing would save us a bushel of runs defensively. This would be good. The Mariners should've wanted Guillen to accept an arbitration offer (just like they should've picked up his option, for whatever good that would've done). Even in the absolute worst-case scenario, whatever that might be, they'd still be able to release Guillen in the spring and only be on the hook for 25% of his arbitration salary (pending union grievance). But I doubt it'd ever get that far in the first place.
Guillen accepting arbitration wouldn't have been a problem at all. Only a bad and uncreative front office would view it as such.
Why (B) Shouldn't Really Be An Issue: Let's set aside the fact for a moment that Guillen would most likely decline an offer of arbitration, thus allowing the organization to wipe its hands clean of the matter with a free draft pick.
The whole steroid thing with Guillen is reported to have occurred between 2002-2005. It's in the past. It seems silly for the Mariners to take a ethical stand against Guillen for this when, for one thing, there's no sign that he still uses, and for another, Mike Morse still has a job with the team. Lots of people take PED's. Lots of Mariners have taken PED's. Lots of Mariners probably still take PED's. It's time to come to terms with this, because a team unwilling to negotiate with current or former users is going to find itself in the basement pretty quick.
And if this is a character thing - where the Mariners want to sever all connections with Guillen because he lied to the press about steroid usage last winter, or something - well, that's kind of inconsistent with the rest of their actions, what with, say, Carl Everett's history, or Richie Sexson's DUI charge. That'd just be an arbitrary and inexplicable line to draw. Who's worse: a guy who used steroids and subsequently lied about it, or a guy who had a few drinks and subsequently got behind the wheel? The Mariners don't really have a moral leg to stand on, here.
Why This Matters: It's not a huge deal, really; bad decisions tend to look better when they're viewed in isolation, rather than as part of a group (which they all invariably are). But before you write this off as nothing and say "so we lost one pick, who cares?", between 2003-2005 sandwich picks were used to grab the likes of Travis Buck, Clay Buchholz, Garrett Olson, Luke Hochevar (the first time), JP Howell, Huston Street, Gio Gonzalez, Adam Jones, Jarrod Saltalamacchia, and Matt Murton. The Yankees snagged Joba Chamberlain 41st overall in 2006. Bob Fontaine is really, really good at his job. The organization just robbed him of an opportunity to snag a big-time talent.
Why This Is Funny: By offering Guillen arbitration, the Mariners would ensure themselves of getting either a free draft pick or a good player on a reasonable one-year contract. They declined.
Why You Should Start Drinking Heavily: The winter meetings begin tomorrow.
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58 comments
Comments
Let's Go Tampa
by Librocrat on Dec 2, 2007 5:05 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
PEDs destroyed our national innocence
by royalsreview on Dec 2, 2007 5:33 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Is there a reliable source anywhere
by vkut79 on Dec 2, 2007 6:33 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Everyone will tell you A
by Jeff on Dec 2, 2007 6:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
-c-
December is the worst month to be a mariners fan.
by Mere Tantalisers on Dec 2, 2007 6:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Both A and B require C
by Llewdor on Dec 3, 2007 9:59 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
In the simplest possible terms
And we're probably not getting Hiroki Kuroda either. We're going to find somebody older and suckier for about the same price and blow too much on the bullpen.
We're doomed.
by ThundaPC on Dec 2, 2007 7:01 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Really?
by vkut79 on Dec 2, 2007 9:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Rather Weaver for 1/8 than Silva at 4/44
by Robert on Dec 2, 2007 9:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I must like the word "as"
by Robert on Dec 2, 2007 9:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Gas?
by PositivePaul on Dec 3, 2007 12:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Okay, I'll bite
- Bavasi has a plan and it's working. Evidence: wins for the last 4 seasons under his leadership: 63-69-78-88. Luck? Bah!
- The plan includes the future (hello?). An extension for Felix and a stud 1B next year--additional cost in '09 = $20-25M. That comes from Sexson's and Vidro's '08 salaries. So you don't get to unload Sexson when his value is low to pick up a few bucks in '08.
- That means Bavasi has $22M to work with MAX this year. If Guillen accepts arb (completely out of Bavasi's control, if offered) and Kuroda signs--THAT'S IT. No Colon for a year. Not even HoRam.
by Digger on Dec 2, 2007 8:12 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
In his infinite wisdom
by Rollo Tomasi on Dec 2, 2007 9:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Vidro's option can go the way of Carl Everett's
by Digger on Dec 3, 2007 6:31 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Eh
- Luck? Yes.
- We're going to get someone for more money anyway
- Like #2, we're still going to be spending that much money, just on worse people. We're not "saving" Guillen money, because we're going to be giving it to someone else anyway. Someone worse.
by Librocrat on Dec 2, 2007 9:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Move Sexson
Sure, the replacement could be Broussard/Morse, but that does nothing for the 5th pitcher problem.
by Digger on Dec 3, 2007 6:38 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Also, I think the Teixeira thing is a joke
by Librocrat on Dec 3, 2007 10:50 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Okay, it's Ibanez
Or if you want(ed) that to be Guillen, your $12M will only pay Kuroda, and the $5M for one year from the Sexson deal has to get the 5th SP. HoRam?
Bottom line: With Guillen gone, the Ms have $22M to commit to >1 year contracts for 2 SP and the 4th OF. If they move Ibanez to first, they need to add yet another OF for that $22M. If they gain some additional '08 salary by trading Sexson, that $ can only go back out in a one year contract.
by Digger on Dec 3, 2007 11:35 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You're confusing me
by Librocrat on Dec 3, 2007 2:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree - that record is not luck. It's suck.
Now, under those circumstances let's assume you installed new leadership of average capability. Would you not expect that a GM of even modest ability ought to chart steady improvement in a decrepit team if he is handed well above average resources?
What if the GM installed were as much as average in his ability? Again, considering that the GM has upper tier resources available to him, would you not expect above average results? (average GM + average resources = average results. Average GM + ample resources > average results).
What we have in that record is really nothing more than average results - that is, that record reflects what you would expect from even a GM of quite modest abilities. It is well below what I would expect even an average GM to accomplish given the resources the Mariners have.
*
So, when you say "Luck? Bah!", I actually agree with you. That record is not luck; it's damning. That is the record that of management is no better than mediocre, and most likely somewhere below even that modest benchmark.
It's suck; not luck.
by Steve Nelson on Dec 3, 2007 9:22 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This is true to an extent
by Gomez on Dec 3, 2007 9:57 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Also, an amendment
by Gomez on Dec 2, 2007 9:06 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Start Drinking Heavily
by Matthew on Dec 2, 2007 9:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I had to stop to write this
by Jeff on Dec 2, 2007 9:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I nominate Coach to take one for the team
by JI on Dec 2, 2007 10:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I Don't Drink
by NBarnes on Dec 3, 2007 12:57 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't feel too bad.
by Jeff on Dec 3, 2007 1:11 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The site would probably still exist
by ningwers on Dec 3, 2007 7:40 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
News Flash
Not likely to become good again for another year or two, at least.
by iglew on Dec 4, 2007 2:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
There is another side
Selig said that there could be possible suspensions for players named in the Mitchell report .. not because they did or didn't pass drug tests, but because illegal purchases of PED's can be a Commissioner's discretionary suspension under the current collective bargaining agreement.
There is the likelihood there can and will be multiple suspensions handed out to those that are named and also fall under the police investigation that is brining out these names of those that illegally purchased the drugs.
It's more then just the "using" them that is worrisome to all the front offices, its the suspensions for illegal purchases of them that is bringing this all down.
by MfaninAlaska on Dec 3, 2007 1:34 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Ha!
by andrewgolfsalot on Dec 3, 2007 7:06 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
True!!....I wish he would suspend himself FOR LIFE
by Montucky on Dec 3, 2007 7:36 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
George W. Bush for Commish?
/sarcasm
In all seriousness, I bet he doesn't make it to the start of the next decade as commissioner.
by andrewgolfsalot on Dec 3, 2007 8:26 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Why wouldn't he?
by pdb on Dec 3, 2007 8:32 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Uggg
And cos only his dumbass would allow a tie All Star game. From now on, his new nickname is Bud "Shortchanged" Selig.
by Montucky on Dec 3, 2007 9:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't like him either
Otherwise, though, he's horrible - but he's completely untouchable because the owners love him. So we'd better get used to the Selig Years for a while yet.
by pdb on Dec 3, 2007 9:47 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Direction of popular discontent
Since the general public is dumb, it's possible for Selig to do his job really well while at the same time really annoying people like us who follow the game closely.
by Llewdor on Dec 3, 2007 10:05 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe I have
But PED's have given Bud and his legacy a bad name, to the point where they've been called in front of Congress. It wouldn't suprise me in the least to suspend some players for a while to make a statement about MLB and their tolerance of PED's.
He's said as much before.
by MfaninAlaska on Dec 3, 2007 10:25 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It be about $$$$$
The budget has been set and the M's are convinced they will have to overpay for pitching.
They don't want to commit any more money then they have to, and there's a $8m risk in offering Guillen arbitration.
It also means that they've already spent that $8m in their minds.
by eknpdx on Dec 3, 2007 9:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I understand, but can't stand the guy.
by Montucky on Dec 3, 2007 10:44 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Selig's approach sure hasn't helped
by Gomez on Dec 3, 2007 11:01 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you misspelled
by pdb on Dec 3, 2007 11:05 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Money is sandy in the commissioner's office
by Gomez on Dec 3, 2007 11:07 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

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