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FireBillBavasi.com

Many may disagree - but this fan thinks Bill Bavasi should go!

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The FireBillBavasi.com website is up and running.  Included is a petition to show your support that Bavasi must go!

Poll
Should Bavasi be fired?
Yes - he's screw up the team enough
52 votes
Not yet - he needs more time
88 votes
No - he's doing a fine job
28 votes

168 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 38 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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Comments

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Well, I disagree
with the Washburn signing quite a bit, but I don't think he's screw up the team enough

by Matthew on Jan 7, 2006 6:30 PM PST reply actions  

Well
I suppose this was inevitable.

by Jeff Sullivan on Jan 7, 2006 6:41 PM PST reply actions  

Jeff...
this is almost copyright infringement... I still refuse to change the link to your site off of my page from Fire Bavasi.

by jameslcrockett on Jan 7, 2006 6:50 PM PST up reply actions  

LOL at the online petition
Online petitions are retarded and a waste of time.
When I was a kid my parents moved around alot.But I always found them. ~Rodney Dangerfield

by Goose on Jan 7, 2006 7:14 PM PST reply actions  

I found these sentances rather funny.
"The farm system, once regarded as one of the best in the majors has failed to produce anyone of significance not named Felix"

So...when was our farm once regarded as one of the best? And failed to produce anyone of significane?? How about Lopez, Yubet and Reed for starters.

And how exactly was Lawton a bad move?

This guy is clearly an idiot.

When I was a kid my parents moved around alot.But I always found them. ~Rodney Dangerfield

by Goose on Jan 7, 2006 7:17 PM PST reply actions  

Get your facts straight first.
Reed was traded for.  Betancourt was a free agent out of Cuba, scouted and signed by Bob Engle only because he was a Griffey fan, and I'm not sure if I'd call Lopez and his .247 avg anyone of significance yet.  

How about how Bavasi refused to trade Blackley, Nageotte for help when we needed it.  How they working out for us now?

by firebillbavasi on Jan 7, 2006 9:27 PM PST up reply actions  

Re:Facts
Yeah Reed was traded for, but he still went through the upper level of our system.So what if Betancourt came from Cuba, he's still a product of our system. And yet is the key word on Lopez and everyone else.Lopez has some great numbers in the minors and has already shown some great gap power in the majors.

And who exactly was Bavasi going to get with Blackley and Nageotte that would of helped us enough to win? Nobody that's who.

And you still haven't answered my question on why Lawton is a bad signing.

When I was a kid my parents moved around alot.But I always found them. ~Rodney Dangerfield

by Goose on Jan 7, 2006 10:12 PM PST up reply actions  

Oh wow
He refused to trade guys who were at the time good pitching prospects? Yeah, that's stupid.

-Omar Minaya

Hindsight is always 20/20...

by Matthew on Jan 7, 2006 10:53 PM PST up reply actions  

Plus
it was Gillick who clung to our prospects when we were good.

by Mariner John on Jan 7, 2006 10:57 PM PST up reply actions  

Talking about facts...
....y'all want to wonder why they had to go out of the system for Betancourt and why Lopez is in the majors at such a young age? And why Reed was so needed and was traded for?

Perhaps because the farm system DIDN'T produce everyday players? And that was because of previous GMs?

by rtang on Jan 8, 2006 1:21 AM PST up reply actions  

"reed was traded for"
Bavasi Traded for him.  Are we holding that against him?

by Peen on Jan 8, 2006 8:00 AM PST up reply actions  

Try the same.
Bavasi has only had two drafts to work with and a few offseason's worth of signings.  You can't rebuild a farm system overnight, in fact, it's very difficult to do so even given the span that Bavasi's had to work with.

The drafts, WHILE GILLICK WAS AT THE HELM, were utter failures most of the time and there's no getting around it.  The most return we've ever gotten from the 2000 class was Jamal Strong, who's presently a fourth-outfielder type, and a couple months of Ismael Valdez in exchange for Derrick Van Dusen.  The 2001 draft was arguably worse, considering the level of available talent and the rewards reaped by other teams.  Other teams picked David Wright, Andy Sisco, Kelly Shoppach, J.J. Hardy, Dallas MacPherson, Brandon League, Dan Haren, Jesse Foppert,  Steven Shell, Kirk Saarloos, Scott Hairston...  We picked Michael Garciaparra, Rene Rivera, Mike Wilson, Lazaro Abreu, and Tim Merritt, and that's just the first three rounds.  We didn't even sign a number of the picks in the first ten rounds, and the ones we did, rarely lasted more than a few years.  The most return we can expect from 2002 would be a platoon corner guy (Bryan Lahair, to this point), a fourth OF (T.J. Bohn), and a backup infielder (Hunter Brown, maybe).  The 2003 class was considerably better, but you can't make up for three years of horrible draft decisions, even if you're trying to corner various international markets.

To chide Bavasi for the failures of the Mariners farm system is foolish and short-sighted.  If anything, his recent drafts have stopped the bleeding while giving us a few interesting prospects to look at, so we're not dipping into the pool of fifth-year college seniors and minor league scrap quite as often as we used to.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." -- Samuel Beckett

by JY on Jan 9, 2006 9:47 AM PST up reply actions  

Well Said
You really hit the nail on the head perfectly.  

Bavasi and Fontaine have done very very well in the past two drafts, despite not having many picks.  

This is not just true with top picks like Clement and Tuiasosopo.  

The M's have picked up some nice late-round guys recently, like Stephen Kahn, Steve Uhlmansiek, Sebastain Boucher, Michael Saunders, Rob Johnson, and Anthony Varvano.  I think that these picks really highlight the improvements in scouting and talent evaluation, as none of these guys were top picks or big-money signings.  

The 2006 draft will be interesting, as the M's finally have all their picks.  Lets hope that Fontaine can continue to improve the M's draft success.  

by Jerry on Jan 9, 2006 12:28 PM PST up reply actions  

...well, at least...
....hoping he's still around.....

by rtang on Jan 9, 2006 12:49 PM PST up reply actions  

Now isn't the time to can his...
ex-Angel butt, although I would give him directions to the gallow's pole.
"the dumbest player I've ever met." --Larry Bowa, on Vincente Padilla

by AgentProvocateur @ Lookout Landing on Jan 7, 2006 10:52 PM PST reply actions  

Heh.
Good luck with your petition. I think too many Seattle-ites are investing their time in a real cause, however: getting Wally Walker fired.

You won't get too many people going to your site besides reactionary fans who blame Bavasi and not Gillick for the Mariners' failure. Bavasi was a major disappointment this season, but he's far from the worst.

by JLC on Jan 7, 2006 11:26 PM PST reply actions  

not yet.......
but i'm loading my gun...

if there's a fire howard lincoln petition i'd be more than happy to sign !

by boxscore willie on Jan 8, 2006 12:59 AM PST reply actions  

I'd place far more blame...
....on Frank Mattox and Chuck Armstrong than on Bavasi.

by rtang on Jan 8, 2006 1:19 AM PST reply actions  

2005 BUDGET AS REPORTED BY COMMSH OFFICE
this really ticks me off. m's only spent 70 mil of a 95 mil budget and finnished last. don't tell me this was bavasi. never knew a gm that wouldn't spend money. this is lincoln/armstrong etc.
pay attention when m's talk about budget in 2006,i bet we get the same hocus pocus we got in 2005.
check this out...m's were almost out spent by the detroit tigers.

 http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5227436

by boxscore willie on Jan 8, 2006 1:50 AM PST reply actions  

This caught my eye
"parts of salaries deferred without interest are discounted"

That's a good chunk of change they didn't count.

When I was a kid my parents moved around alot.But I always found them. ~Rodney Dangerfield

by Goose on Jan 8, 2006 2:24 AM PST up reply actions  

Like Jeff mentioned earlier...
That takes only into account players on the roster on August 31st. That means guys like Boone ($8m), Winn ($5m), Speez ($3m), Olivo, etc, were not counted.

by Devin on Jan 8, 2006 2:30 AM PST up reply actions  

True...
...but it's still not that flattering to the front office as a whole to know that so much of the payroll was going to players who weren't contributing. Spezio you can blame on Bavasi, but Boone you can't, and Winn was still a good thing...

by rtang on Jan 8, 2006 9:12 AM PST up reply actions  

Among other things
the site's layout is awful. There's no way to get back to the homepage from a lot of spots, the blog is simply bashing others, and there's almost no content. That's a really disappointing waste of domain space.

by Corco on Jan 8, 2006 8:17 AM PST reply actions  

Bavasi
I don't really agree with a lot of the stuff that firebillbavasi has come up with as reasons to can Bavasi.  

In particular, I think that the M's farm system has improved a lot since Bavasi and Fontaine have joined the club.  I think that Fontaine has been most responsible for much better decisions in the past two drafts.  However, Bavasi has brought in a lot of good arms in minor trades.  That is not insiginificant.  

However, Bavasi has totally bombed this offseason.  Washburn's contract is pretty unanimously viewed as the worst signing of the offseason.  Bringing in Everett was also an uncreative, bad addition.  

Bavasi seems to be pretty good at trading veterans for prospects.  He got good returns from Garcia, Villone, Winn, and Torrealba.  He also has shown that he is not afraid of big contracts.  

Bavasi's main failing is that he hasn't shown that he can make really creative, intelligent moves.

He hasn't been able to pick up undervalued players.  The Lawton signing was a pretty nice move.  But there has been talent available this offseason, and the M's haven't been able to do anything:

-The Dodgers just acquired SP Jae Seo from the Mets for two relievers (Duaner Sanchez and Steve Schmoll).  Seo has good stats, but did not get a good shot to pitch for the Mets.  He could have been a great pickup for the M's, who have plenty of relievers to deal.  This is a move that Bavasi should have made.  

-The A's picked up Milton Bradley for nearly nothing.  Bradley is a much much better player than Carl Everett.  Bradley is a switch hitter, gets on base, and is a very good defensive OFer.  Instead, the M's acquired an older, inferior, and one-dimensional player.

-the Rockies just signed Byung Hyung Kim for 1.5 million.  The Rockies are not exactly the ideal destination for pitchers, and I am sure that Kim would have listened to offers from the M's.  Coming to Seattle would have been a great way for him to get his career on track.  He would have been a nice, cheap addition to the rotation for the M's.  Barring injuries, Kim would have filled the crucial 6th starter/long reliever role that the M's are very thin at right now.

-the Indians needed pitching help, but with the market going crazy, they didn't want to overpay for crap starters.  They went out and signed Paul Byrd for 2 years, 14.25 million and Jason Johnson for 1 year, 4 million.  In this bloated market, these are two of the best bargains available.  Both of these guys would have been much better investments than Washburn.  The Indians got themselves two good starters without committing to long-term, overpriced contracts.  

-the Diamondbacks were not in good shape at the beginning of the offseason.  Despite sucking, they had thrown a lot of money at Troy Glaus and Russ Ortiz the year before.  They had a nice farm system, but too many old, declining vets blocking them.  They bring in Eric Byrnes as the new GM, and that club is instantly on the right track.  He traded away Troy Glaus and Javier Vazquez, and didn't make any big free agent acquisitions.  However, the Snakes saved a huge amount of cash, while bringing in players like Chris Young and Orlando Hudson.  After one more round of trades this season, the Diamondbacks should have one of the best young teams going into 2007, with a lot of money left over to spend to improve the roster for a run at the playoffs.  The thing I like about these moves is that Byrnes recognized that the team was not close to contending.  He recongnized that the future was in the farm system.  He made some unpopular trades that won't really help the team win a lot of games for another year.  But he did stick to a long-term plan that will help that team be a contender in a few years.  I am sure that everyone will be talking about how much of a genious he is in 2007 and 2008.

I am seeing none of these types of moves from Bavasi.  I liked the Johjima and Lawton signings, but this offseason has been a total bust overall.  

I don't think that Bavasi is a horrible GM.  However, I don't think that he is a really good GM either.  

If the M's could bring in Theo Epstein, it would be a great move.  The new crop of young, ballsy GMs are making guys like Bavasi look stupid.  The M's should throw a huge wad of cash at Epstein, and give him all the autonomy that he didn't have in Boston.  

by Jerry on Jan 8, 2006 10:16 AM PST reply actions  

seo
 i couldn't believe the m's didn't make a play for Jae Seo/Mets.
i'm hoping if something comes out later it's that we tried but mets preferred the dodger prospects over m's. i don't want to hear bavasi was asleep at the wheel on that one. Seo is pefect material for rebuiling a pitching staff.
Epstein,now that would be a great move !

by boxscore willie on Jan 9, 2006 2:00 AM PST reply actions  

Uggh...
Two more awful signings by Bavasi.  Kevin Appier and Fernando Vina?  Its a repeat of last year's Reese and Sele signings - except we already know the results.  Hopefully they'll at least let Lopez start the year.

by firebillbavasi on Jan 9, 2006 5:59 PM PST reply actions  

LOL your realllllllly reaching aren't you?
When I was a kid my parents moved around alot.But I always found them. ~Rodney Dangerfield

by Goose on Jan 9, 2006 6:20 PM PST up reply actions  

These are barely signings.
This is a pathetic attempt to call everything that Bavasi does horrible.  We signed these guys to minor league deals and they won't block anyone.  They are going to go to camp and try to make the team like anybody else.  If they can't play after the injuries then they will be sent home.  Appier could be an ok 6th pitcher in the rotation and we really could use him if he's healthy if we have injuries in the rotation.  I'm sorry but Bavasi is probably one of the better GMs in the league.  Lets just wait and see what happens next year.  If we improve in this tough division then he stays.  If we decline because of the moves he made then the bandwagon will begin to fill up.

by Edgar for Pres on Jan 9, 2006 7:25 PM PST up reply actions  

Care to explain?
"I'm sorry but Bavasi is probably one of the better GMs in the league"

Really?  Why?  

Teams under Bavasi have a combined record of 659-734:

'94 - 47-68
'95 - 78-67
'96 - 70-91
'97 - 84-78
'98 - 85-77
'99 - 70-92
'03 - 93-69
'04 - 63-99
'05 - 69-93

And that's giving him the '03 season which he basically inherited.

But please fill me in - why is he probably one of the best GM in the league? and by the league do you mean the AL West?  Cause Beane blows Bavasi away.) What moves has he made that you like?  And don't come back with Sexson or Beltre - anyone could have thrown money at them.

by firebillbavasi on Jan 9, 2006 9:19 PM PST up reply actions  

I wouldn't say Bavasi is one of the better GM's in
the league, but he's not near as bad as you make him out to be.

And you still haven't explained why Appier and Vina are bad signings.

When I was a kid my parents moved around alot.But I always found them. ~Rodney Dangerfield

by Goose on Jan 9, 2006 10:02 PM PST up reply actions  

Why Vina & Appier are bad signings
Well we could start out with the fact that neither one has played in the past two years.  Or because they could/will actually make the roster & be given the chance to make 20 starts, go 6-12 with a 5+ ERA effectively submarining our season from the start. Or because there were & are significantly better players we could use on our bench or bullpen (Branyan & Seo have already been discussed - but there are also guys still available like Millar) and BB can't think outside the box enough to realize this.  

Yes if we were the Yankees or Red Sox these two signings wouldn't worry me much because their 25 man roster is already set.  Us?  I feel like Bavasi is just WAITING & hoping that Lopez/Meche will fail and if they do then these two are his backup plan.  Sorry not good enough.  If these two make the roster we are seriously up a creek.

Edgar for Pres what moves has BB made that you like?  Anything in particular?  The main difference between Beane and Bavasi - Beane has had 50% of the budget that BB has.

by firebillbavasi on Jan 10, 2006 8:07 AM PST up reply actions  

This is what I find funny about you guys
"I feel like Bavasi is just WAITING & hoping that Lopez/Meche will fail and if they do then these two are his backup plan."

lol

When I was a kid my parents moved around alot.But I always found them. ~Rodney Dangerfield

by Goose on Jan 10, 2006 2:52 PM PST up reply actions  

Sure his record isn't too great
but you can't blame 94, 04, or 05 on him.  He was taking over a bad team when he came into 94 (and 03).  Sure the mariners did well in 2003 but the writing was already on the wall if we could have seen two feet in front of us.  We had no real depth and we were aging fast.  He has done a good job with creating a strong farm club in both Anahiem and Seattle.  The Angels have been so good recently because they have had a strong farm system.  

I guess what I meant was that I think that Bavasi is an average or slightly above-average GM.  Its really easy to say, we should have put the money down to buy all these great players but you can't win 'em all.  If you think that you should then just become a Yankees fan (or Red Sox fan).  All really good teams create the core talent from their farm systems and then use FAs to add missing pieces.  The GM isn't responsible for individual collapses and their true effect (good or bad) is dramatically overemphasized (unless you are the Yankees/Red Sox).  The Yankees are going to go through a down period like the mariners have because the drained their youth and now look alot like the 04 mariners.

Ok this is post little random but whatever.  

I am so tired of everyone who is in love with Billy Beane.  His first 3 years with Oakland he went 226-260.  Bavasi has gone 225-261.  Beane didn't get good until his draft picks of Mulder, Hudson, and Zito got up to the majors.  Plus Beane inherited Giambi, Tejada, and Chavez.  Who did Bavasi inherit?  Look at the Mariners in 2003.  They had Ichiro, Soriano, Meche and Pineiro as their future.  Well lets just put it that most of the above haven't quite panned out yet.

by Edgar for Pres on Jan 9, 2006 10:24 PM PST up reply actions  

And don't forget
Sele was a spring training invite last year too w/ no deal. It only took 12 loses and a 5.66 ERA before he didn't block anyone either.

by firebillbavasi on Jan 9, 2006 9:21 PM PST reply actions  

It's pretty common knowledge that alot of that
was Hargrove's preference for vetrans.
When I was a kid my parents moved around alot.But I always found them. ~Rodney Dangerfield

by Goose on Jan 9, 2006 10:01 PM PST up reply actions  

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