Today's Fun Fact
I was getting prepared to start writing this, and then Matthew told me from the next room over that the Sounders just made a huge and hugely controversial trade. So it's not like this post is going to be read by anybody anyway, since Seattle-area sports fans are all reading about that. But I'm still going to get this out there, because my whole life people have told me that I shouldn't bottle things up, since that just leads to an explosion. You shouldn't ever bottle anything up. Except so, so many delicious things.
A link was passed along to me today, to a post on a blog called Plunk Everyone. Within the post, the author went team-by-team and identified the ten all-time players (each) who had the highest winning percentages when they were in the starting lineup. The example given in the intro is that the Diamondbacks won 58 percent of their games when Tony Womack was in the starting lineup. That example immediately tells you that what follows is more interesting than meaningful, but there's room for things to be both interesting and meaningful. I think the Mariners' list is both interesting and meaningful. The Mariners' list:
- Mike Cameron, 61.3%
- John Olerud, 58.7%
- Bret Boone, 54.6%
- Dan Wilson, 53.3%
- Edgar Martinez, 51.6%
- Alex Rodriguez, 51.2%
- Jay Buhner, 49.1%
- Ken Griffey Jr., 49.1%
- Ichiro, 48.8%
- Richie Sexson, 47.2%
I definitely wasn't expecting to see Richie Sexson pop up, but then it's not like 47.2% is anything to be proud of. More significant is the guy at the very top. The Mariners have had a higher winning percentage with Mike Cameron in the starting lineup than they have with any other player in the starting lineup in franchise history (given a 500-start minimum).
Setting the start minimum at 500 admittedly keeps the player pool pretty small. And a huge part of Cameron's record is that he was a Mariner at the right time, since those 2000-2003 teams were something else. But then Cameron was also a huge part of those 2000-2003 teams. According to Baseball-Reference, his four-year WAR was 19.0. According to FanGraphs, his four-year WAR was 19.7. Players with similar WARs over the same span of time: Jorge Posada, Larry Walker, Bret Boone and Shawn Green. I am very much aware of the limitations of WAR, but this is just to illustrate the point that Mike Cameron was fuckin awesome.
And then his contract ran out and the Mariners didn't offer him arbitration. He was 30 years old, coming off a season in which he was worth about five wins at a $7 million salary, and the Mariners didn't offer him arbitration. They just let him go. They signed Raul Ibanez for three years, and they just let Cammy go, without so much as a compensation pick. You can try to read the explanation here, but I should warn you that it's very stupid. We had a good idea that it was stupid at the time. We have a better idea that it was stupid now. So stupid. The Mike Cameron situation isn't why the Mariners went from being very good to very bad, but it was a contributor.
Mike Cameron: awesome Seattle Mariner, and current owner of a Seattle Mariners franchise record. It's a shame the way it wound up, but at least we got to have Cammy for a while, and at least for his sake he got out before shit turned rotten. I suppose it's all in how you look at it.
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My dream team would probably have Beltre at third and no Bone to be honest, and I'm a pretty big Buhner fan.
I was more following to d0nkey and Coach.
Buhner?
Unless you would play him at second.
by Coach Owens on Feb 17, 2012 6:11 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Very good, Coach.
I was asking Matthew because he just said “well that’s just dumb.”
Oh, Bone. Not Boone.
Man, just call him Buhner.
Lately I've heard that "bottling things up" is actually better for you
because something about constantly “letting off steam” makes you more prone to it in the first place, etc etc
Point being: pay attention to science. Not the other shit. The other shit is stupid (looking at you, natural child birth)
(No! Wait. Don't look!)
It’s grosssssssssssssssssssssss
by Matthew on Feb 17, 2012 6:07 PM PST up reply actions 9 recs
Got to love my hippyish parents.
My 3 brothers and I were all home births which might explain a lot. The midwife was 3 hours late for my youngest brothers birth.
by seattle_since_81 on Feb 17, 2012 9:19 PM PST up reply actions
And the afterbirth?
Was it ritually consumed?
ignacio
I think people just misunderstand what the benefit of emotional expression is
I think it doesn’t work like a pressure valve where you’re releasing excess emotions that then go away once expressed. As you said it’s been suggested doing that too much can actually strengthen emotional reactions rather than relieve them. But there’s still a benefit to expression and that benefit is feedback you get from communicating what’s bothering you instead of keeping it in your own head where your reactions can grow out of control through a lack of information that might help one process an insecurity or issue better or help someone get a better perspective on the way they’re feeling that they can’t get without outside feedback on it.
So it’s not really that bottling up is better for you necessarily, that’s bad too if taken to an extreme. Just don’t “blow off steam” unless you have something specific that you need addressed with others. Doing it just for the sake of doing it doesn’t improve things.
With Edgar at 51.7 this means from 1987 to 2004
We had not failure!
by sofa_king on Feb 17, 2012 6:12 PM PST via mobile reply actions 2 recs
Well there's 325 comments on the Sounder at Heart article about the trade
and there’s 15 on this article…
I met a possum.
by s0merand0mdude on Feb 17, 2012 8:30 PM PST up reply actions
Cameron was awesome.
But the team had a 60.7% winning percentage in the years he played, 2000-2003. Mike played in 610 games, missed 37. To get the team to about 61.3% adds 4 wins over 4 years. A lot of good players on the 2000-2003 teams, including Cameron.
It would probably be a little bit higher, but not a huge swing.
The Mariners didn’t have a winning season until 1991 which was his 3rd season in the pros. He was on some not very good teams. 1997 was the team that had the most wins, 90, on all the teams he played on.
by seattle_since_81 on Feb 17, 2012 9:26 PM PST up reply actions
I would think it's lower.
We were good for Griffey 2.1, and he didn’t play much as Griffey 2.2.
I sent this article to Cammy on Twitter,
and this was his response:
Wow!! Didn’t know that.. #SEATTLE was my second birth as a MLB player got nothin but luv for the Great NorthWest!!
by seattle_since_81 on Feb 17, 2012 9:28 PM PST reply actions 17 recs
Yup. It's pretty rare for a guy to take over a franchise legend, lead-pipe cinch Hall-of-Famer
and not get booed out of town, let alone be nearly as popular, but Cameron pulled it off.
Cammy has a twitter account?
Because I’m unable to find it by searching his name on there.
by Cascadian Man on Feb 18, 2012 11:11 AM PST up reply actions
Man, I just read Bavasi's explanation about letting him go
I didn’t think it was possible to want to stab him in the face more than I already did. I was wrong.
by Smegmalicious on Feb 17, 2012 10:21 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Bavasi had to have been looking at RBI's and batting average when he made decisions
Sometimes I want know and sometimes I don’t care anymore.
by Kermit. on Feb 18, 2012 8:16 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
2001 was weird, it still doesn't feel real.
It’s just sad it ended the way it did.
by Eric Wedge's Mustache on Feb 18, 2012 1:21 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Someday the Mariners are going to have their World Series trophy, and their 116 win season.
I’d rather have that than 2 World Series trophies. But yeah, right now the way that season ended still stings.
The only sports moment that was more soul crushing for me was Super Bowl XL.
And that’s only because it took place over a few hours instead of a few days.
And I still believe that 9/11 was part of a giant conspiracy to keep the Mariners from winning the World Series.
Osamaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
May 2, 2002
Cammy hits four home runs against the White Sox and the M’s win 15-4. Great memory of a great Mariner.
Baseball been bery, bery good to me. - Chico Escuela
The first two were back-to-backs with Boone
Hit in consecutive innings, if I recall correctly, which was some kind of record.
Hit in the same inning.
And Cameron just missed hitting his 5th homer when he flew out to the warning track. Said he would have hit the 5th home run if he swung at the first pitch (straight fastball down the middle).
As I am only a casual Sounders fan,
can somebody explain just how bad this trade is in relative baseball terms? I.e., is this their version of the Slocumb trade or something? The commenters at Sounder At Heart are saying this is Bavasi-esque.
As a fairly fervent Timbers fan this trade was a big, big win!
but dispassionately, I don’t actually get the rationale behind it. Put in baseball terms, the Sounders just traded two young guys on the verge of sticking with the big club and being very solid contributors for several years for a once-solid utility infielder who has bounced around a bit and who has played his last three years in Japan.
All I can say is this is amusing
if only because I am 100% convinced eddie johnson has no idea what offsides is.
It's slightly worse than Snelling and Fruto for Vidro
Eddie Johnson is worse than Vidro and the parts the Sounders gave up are better than the Snelling/Fruto package
by Graham MacAree on Feb 18, 2012 8:47 PM PST up reply actions
So the chances are good it will look even worse than the Vidro trade historically, right?
Because Vidro wasn’t much as a Mariner, but what did Snelling or Fruto ever amount to either?
I don't bring it up to absolve Bavasi
Far from it. Frankly the same thing can be said about the Bedard trade (yeah, Adam Jones is pretty good, but Chris Tillman has sucked as a big leaguer, Kam Mickolio has bounced around the league, and the other two are ours again). I wasn’t an internet-fan at the time of the Vidro trade, so I can’t say I remember everyone hating it or what Snelling and Fruto’s prospect hype was, but it seems like the two trades are viewed similarly. Boneheaded moves. Sort of like the ultimate Mariner bad trade, the Slocumb trade. Are you saying that even historically, all three trades should be considered equally bad? I get the whole “you can only evaluate a trade based on what you know at the time” thing, and that’s why it doesn’t absolve Bavasi, The Red Sox were cash-poor in 1919, does that mean selling Babe Ruth was a good transaction for them?
And I know everyone says how nice Bavasi is in person, but this quote just pisses me off to no end:
Catcher Pat Borders was Seattle’s only free agent who was offered arbitration.
“We offered him arbitration because the club has a special relationship with this guy,” Bavasi said.
The Mariners did not offer arbitration to their other free agents: reliever Armando Benitez, outfielder John Mabry, infielder Mark McLemore and shortstop Rey Sanchez.
Really? The club had a ‘special relationship’ with Pat fucking Borders, but not Mike Cameron? Compared to Pat fucking Borders, I’d call the Mariners’ relationship with Mark McLemore ‘special’.
Fuck off, Bavasi.
I always got a kick out of Pat Borders pinch-running for Edgar
He probably only did it like three or four times, but the concept of a ~40 year old catcher being called on as a pinch-runner was just high hilarity.
Actually to this day I’m not sure I understand why it was done….
Is Cameron still a free agent?
I mean, we were talking about Jamie Moyer…
"There is no sports event like Opening Day of baseball, the sense of beating back the forces of darkness and the National Football League."
—George Vecsey
I was at the game when he hit the walk-off against Boston in the19th or 20th inning.
Off of Jeff fucking Fassero. I was sitting on the metal bleachers and god my ass was sore. Thank you Cammy for making my ass feel better.

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