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Seattle City Reportedly Getting New Sports Arena

I try to remain skeptical while not pessimistic about news. I prefer actions to words as words can be deliberately used for manipulation whereas actions, well those can be manipulative too, but the action still gets done. In the baseball world, this is nowhere more apparent than in managerial quotes, which I highlighted last summer. It's also readily seen with offseason rumors. You are all probably going to be saner if you just chill and wait for actual moves to occur rather than stressing out over tadpoles that will never develop into frogs.

Such has been my stance on the arena talks that have leaked recently and the inevitable hopes for a rekindled NBA and new-to-Seattle NHL teams. However

this might start being worth paying attention to.

[17:51 UPDATE]: Seattle Times chips in with a short piece backing up, but not confirming, that talks are close. News conference scheduled for 2pm tomorrow.

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Besides, both Jeff and Matthew are big NHL fans

The real question is, does either transfer allegiance to a prospective Seattle team?

Think again

by Sportszilla on Feb 15, 2012 5:50 PM PST up reply actions  

With what, like five goals?

Nobody scores in soccer ever

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by Corco on Feb 15, 2012 6:13 PM PST up reply actions   5 recs

Their vintage jersey is something to be excited about

I don’t know about anyone else, but I really liked their old jersey. That’s what got me interested in the team at 8 years old.

2011 Safeco Field Record: 1-0 ; Overall Safeco Field Record: 13-5

by Fin on Feb 15, 2012 7:56 PM PST up reply actions   2 recs

Samesies.

Unfortunately I don’t think they will be called the Coyotes when they move up here.

2011 Safeco Field Record: 1-0 ; Overall Safeco Field Record: 13-5

by Fin on Feb 15, 2012 7:59 PM PST up reply actions  

It's hard for me to evaluate it without bias now

Since I actually had one of those jerseys as a kid and loved the thing.

by Tophawkeye on Feb 15, 2012 9:17 PM PST up reply actions  

I am sorry but that is fucking terrible.

It’s like somebody made a 90s Dbacks uniform WORSE.

by Eyebrows on Feb 15, 2012 7:57 PM PST up reply actions  

But there is a wolf playing hockey! With a moon on his jersey!

It also has a Native American motif along the sides!

by katal on Feb 15, 2012 7:58 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

No I like the dark green

Matches the Northwest colors better.

2011 Safeco Field Record: 1-0 ; Overall Safeco Field Record: 13-5

by Fin on Feb 15, 2012 8:01 PM PST up reply actions  

Neon Green is a northwest color now.

Much like Black/Yellow is to Pittsburgh, neon green is now instantly recognizable with Seattle.

by Robert on Feb 15, 2012 8:03 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't know if I'd call it a northwest color.

Certain NW cities haven’t exactly earned the right to use it.

by katal on Feb 15, 2012 8:05 PM PST up reply actions  

Teal.

"You are the molders of their dreams." - Clark Mollenhoff

by EequalsMc2 on Feb 15, 2012 8:06 PM PST up reply actions  

I saw this jersey in person the other night

Not actually as ugly as it looks on the screen but they probably had better options in terms of the collar color.

I met a possum.

by s0merand0mdude on Feb 15, 2012 8:12 PM PST up reply actions  

Limit breaks didn't come out until 7!

GAWD!

How come you can do all this other great shit, but you can't lie the fuck down and sleep?

by JAH on Feb 15, 2012 8:52 PM PST up reply actions  

Chalk this up

to a thread I never expected to see on a baseball blog. But on a night like tonight everything seems abnormally awesome.

by C Dubya on Feb 15, 2012 9:08 PM PST up reply actions  

Well, if we're going to be nerds about it...

VI had proto-limit breaks, the desperation attacks that characters would randomly do if you had them select Fight when they were already critical. But since a lot of people weren’t using fight commands later in the game or would heal as soon as the critical state was reached, it was pretty easy to go through an entire game without seeing one.

by JY on Feb 15, 2012 11:43 PM PST up reply actions   2 recs

That's the best.

How come you can do all this other great shit, but you can't lie the fuck down and sleep?

by JAH on Feb 15, 2012 8:51 PM PST up reply actions  

I can live with the logo.

It’s the blanket pattern and ugly Seattle Storm colors (yes I know they were Sonics colors too).

by Eyebrows on Feb 15, 2012 8:00 PM PST up reply actions  

As a Coyotes fan

I would have to say, yes, there are some exciting players on the team. The Hanzal-Vrbata-Whitney line is solid, and Mike Smith is a threat to score from anywhere on the ice (he’s the goalie, but I’m only mostly joking). Smith is athletic and loves to play the puck, but sometimes he just doesn’t know when to get back or stay in the net. Boyd Gordon was the biggest offseason pickup and is winning 57% of his faceoffs (9th best in the league and very important to the PK). Okay, maybe there’s not much to be excited about if the third thing on my list is a faceoff percentage.

Boedker and Korpikoski are fast and have 20-goal potential. Doan is a decent role player, but the fans down here have elevated him to Edgar status without Edgar stats.

Overall, Matthew is correct, as defense rules the day down here. The power play is a joke, and if they get a lead they trap their opponent to death. Yandle is very talented with the puck and can create opportunities and space, but often has silly turnovers in the defensive zone. Ekman-Larsson has 21 points from the blue line and is just 20 years old, but still learning how to play defense. David Schlemko might just be the best defensive player on a good defensive team, while Adrian Aucoin and Rostislav Klesla are also consistantly solid.

The biggest reason for optimism is Dave Tippett and goalie coach Sean Burk, because without them, this team wouldn’t be anywhere near the top 8. If the young forwards (Korpikoski, Brule, and Boedker) make big strides in the next couple years, or if they can infuse some outside talent onto the front line (through draft, trade, or FA), they have 105-point potential with that young, good defense.

by TripleAvery on Feb 16, 2012 9:17 AM PST up reply actions   3 recs

Hell yeah!

This is AWESOME news for Seattle and hopefully this means the Sonics are back next year and we get a NHL team finally.

by Ghost of Bobby Ayala on Feb 15, 2012 5:50 PM PST reply actions  

That part does legitimately suck.

Though taking the Coyotes from Phoenix would elicit no sympathy from me. That’s very little like what happened here.

by Matthew on Feb 15, 2012 6:11 PM PST up reply actions  

It's tough

Because the 20,000 or so dedicated fans would notice. It’s not significant enough for me to rationally be upset about them leaving (especially to Seattle), but 20,000 is more than 0, so somebody would notice.

by TripleAvery on Feb 16, 2012 9:43 AM PST up reply actions  

Disclaimer

The Coyotes have 32,000 Twitter followers. and 81,000 Facebook fans. So that’s more scientific.

by TripleAvery on Feb 16, 2012 9:46 AM PST up reply actions  

Sounds like the arena will at least partly be paid for

by taxes on tickets to games/events there…which seems so entirely reasonable that of course it’s never come up as an idea before.

Think again

by Sportszilla on Feb 15, 2012 6:20 PM PST up reply actions   2 recs

Kings aren't necessarily leaving

but it’s less someone coming in with the specific intent of moving the team and then doing so (the Kings’ ownership hasn’t changed hands recently AFAIK).

I met a possum.

by s0merand0mdude on Feb 15, 2012 7:52 PM PST up reply actions  

It is kind of hard to blame them when you look at the team they put out there every night.

After drafting Chris Paul, a giant no brainer, this is how they used their first rounders.
Hilton Armstrong at 12 overall (not in the league)
Cedric Simmons at 15 overall (lol)
Julian Wright at 13 overall (Surprise! not in the league)
Darrell Arthur at 27 overall, ostensibly decent value but traded him
Darren Collison at 21 overall, hard to argue with I guess
Cole Aldrich at 11 (too early)

Their free agent signings were more hilarious, but I’ll spare you. This team has been run like shit for the last decade and, other than striking gold with one of the best transformative players in the NBA, they’ve been ass. Fans respond accordingly.

by abender20 on Feb 15, 2012 8:04 PM PST up reply actions  

I haven't followed the NBA closely for years now, but this reminds me of a question I had about the league.

A high draft pick in the NBA seems more valuable than a high NFL or MLB draft pick. Wouldn’t it be worthwhile to trade mid-first round picks, stocking up on future picks, as to eventually be able to trade into the top-5? Does that strategy make sense at all?

by katal on Feb 15, 2012 8:07 PM PST up reply actions  

Why would you do that?

you could have twelve Cedric Simmons with those draft picks! And JR Smiths! And Tyler Hansbroughs!

by seattlebruin on Feb 15, 2012 8:08 PM PST up reply actions  

Oh man...

I’m really hoping this means we may get to see Squatch hit the ice! That’d make the wait worth it.

by universalguru on Feb 15, 2012 6:09 PM PST via Android app reply actions  

Why don't you have a seat over there?
Arena News Conference scheduled for tomorrow. I’m told Hedge Fund/Land Owner Chris Hansen is in town.

by Mayo on Feb 15, 2012 6:13 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

Huh, I mean Safeco's got a lame replay screen and everything

But I was still happy with it. I guess things just don’t last like they used to.

by BigR on Feb 15, 2012 6:19 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

So we'll finally get to see what Christopher Hansen even looks like?

Seattle Times is teasing on twitter that they’ll have the whole interview up tonight.

by Will Kier on Feb 15, 2012 6:27 PM PST reply actions  

This is probably some elaborate prank set up by David Stern as a way to fuck with Seattle fans

When the mystery man is revealed, it will just be Clay Bennett wearing nothing but a tie running around waving a double sided flag with the Thunder’s logo on one side and a Pittsburgh Steelers logo on the other

"Tell my tale to those who ask. Tell it truly, the ill deeds along with the good and let me be judged accordingly. The rest is silence." ~ Dinobot

by beastwarking on Feb 15, 2012 6:31 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Dude needs to make a deal with the city to finance himself a new haircut.

How come you can do all this other great shit, but you can't lie the fuck down and sleep?

by JAH on Feb 15, 2012 9:11 PM PST up reply actions  

Counting my chickens before they hatch.

So then what will the Sonic’s SB Nation’s page be called?

by luciuswolfey_96 on Feb 15, 2012 6:36 PM PST reply actions  

Already taken

"Tell my tale to those who ask. Tell it truly, the ill deeds along with the good and let me be judged accordingly. The rest is silence." ~ Dinobot

by beastwarking on Feb 15, 2012 7:13 PM PST up reply actions   4 recs

[Expletive] David Stern.

How come you can do all this other great shit, but you can't lie the fuck down and sleep?

by JAH on Feb 15, 2012 8:57 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

On one hand I am glad that the people in Seattle that loved the Sonics are getting their team back.

If I ever lost the Seahawks it would absolutely destroy my soul.

But on the other the teams in the sports that I love the most (football, soccer and baseball) are already in this city. Adding two more teams into the mix will only hurt them. The Seahawks will be fine and always will be but I could see the Sounders and Mariners getting anywhere from hurt to buried by this news.

Basically it comes down to how petty I am and you would be surprised by how petty I can be.

by Robert on Feb 15, 2012 6:44 PM PST reply actions  

Seattle would be one of two cities in this country that have NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA, MLS and a Division 1 football team the other being Chicago.

Now I love this city and I think our fans (even Seahawks fans) are incredibly underrated but do you really think that we could support all 6?

by Robert on Feb 15, 2012 6:56 PM PST up reply actions  

Easily

Plenty of fans to go around.

by bigtrain21 on Feb 15, 2012 7:02 PM PST via Android app up reply actions  

We would get an ESPNSeattle portal maybe

and all the extra coverage that having an ESPN gets you (for better or for worse).

by algorhythm on Feb 15, 2012 7:08 PM PST up reply actions  

Doubt it

I would be surprised if the bonzos in charge of those could even locate Seattle on a map.

by Robert on Feb 15, 2012 7:09 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Denver supports 5 pro teams and is a slightly smaller metro area than Seattle.

CU is also only forty minutes away from Denver, although I doubt the Huskies will be affected by this in any way.

by Alex Kelly on Feb 15, 2012 7:08 PM PST up reply actions  

Your inclusion of D1 football I find pointless.

College sports are a different breed from pro. Eight other cities have teams in NBA, NHL, NFL, MLB and MLS and there’s also Toronto which has four plus half the Buffalo Bills.

There’ll probably be some negative effect to the current three teams, yes, but it’s unlikely to be dramatic and I doubt it will hurt them if they’re winning.

by Matthew on Feb 15, 2012 7:18 PM PST up reply actions   2 recs

I can see all the pro teams chasing a discrete amount of corporate skybox money

while the UW football program’s resources (I’m assuming) are based more on the boosters’ personal connections to their institution.

by Will Kier on Feb 15, 2012 7:24 PM PST up reply actions  

Not to mention that you're still wrong because

Dallas has TCU
Philadelphia has Temple
Toronto has U Buffalo plus a CFL team
New York has Army
WashDC has U Maryland
Boston has Boston College
Denver has both UC Boulder and CSU
The Bay Area has Stanford and UC Berk.

by Matthew on Feb 15, 2012 7:30 PM PST up reply actions  

UW has the largest fan base of any team in Seattle.

I don’t think this move changes anything for them. People just love the Dawgs.

by Alex Kelly on Feb 15, 2012 7:40 PM PST up reply actions  

Exactly

This wouldn’t hurt the Huskies or the Seahawks. I worry about it hurting the Mariners, Sounders and the new NHL team.

by Robert on Feb 15, 2012 7:43 PM PST up reply actions  

That's where my concerns are as well.

Although the Sounders have found a large supportive fan base and as long as they can keep the product and atmosphere at a comparable level they should be fine. Also, even if Sounders attendance dropped 40% they would still be first in attendance.

by Alex Kelly on Feb 15, 2012 7:48 PM PST up reply actions  

The new NHL team would most likely get a decent amount of support from BC

The Vancouver area hockey market is enormous and could probably support two teams itself.

by Tophawkeye on Feb 15, 2012 9:27 PM PST up reply actions  

I dunno

Local pride overrides that property IMO. I mean, we could help support the Trailblazers but nobody likes Portland enough to actually support them.

I met a possum.

by s0merand0mdude on Feb 15, 2012 9:31 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't see many Canucks fans dropping their insane fandom

for an American team. Especially with the whole hockey-as-Canada’s-sport mentality. Especially when the Canucks are a top-tier NHL franchise

by bomdal on Feb 16, 2012 7:01 AM PST up reply actions  

I don't see them becoming fans either.

But I’m pretty sure that the Canucks are a very tough ticket to get. I could see Vancouver fans coming to Seattle for some select games, more out of love for the NHL than as Seattle fans.

by Mind of no mind on Feb 16, 2012 12:26 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah I could definitely see that.

Especially when the Canadian teams would be visiting since their fans seem pretty spread out

by bomdal on Feb 16, 2012 2:04 PM PST up reply actions  

However:

You’d probably get a lot of loyalty from Portland fans.

"There is no sports event like Opening Day of baseball, the sense of beating back the forces of darkness and the National Football League."
—George Vecsey

by extavernmouse on Feb 16, 2012 10:50 AM PST up reply actions  

Seattle metro area is far from small though, and it's pretty wealthy.

It’s not that I don’t understand your concerns, because I share some of them, but I’m unconvinced it’s a likely outcome.

by Aaron Campeau on Feb 15, 2012 8:06 PM PST up reply actions  

I've long suspected that when the Mariners are good again, the national media will treat us like a major market.

We have the entire northwest, and much of the Rocky Mountain states! How is this any different than Boston laying claim to New England?

by katal on Feb 15, 2012 8:08 PM PST up reply actions  

It isn't.

There’s the Canucks in the NHL and the Blazers in the NBA, but aside from that there’s no competition until California to the south and Denver to the east in any of the five leagues.

by Aaron Campeau on Feb 15, 2012 8:10 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Insert generic rant about terrible public transit system to get to games here

Support as in make it to games occasionally and watch a lot on tv? Sure. Pack the stadiums and arenas evry night? I think the economy and the buses or light rail need to get a lot better for people to be able to do that.

by Chris_FB on Feb 15, 2012 7:51 PM PST up reply actions  

What a great time to own a bar in Pioneer Square or SODO.

At certain times in the year they’ll be a game nearly every night.

by katal on Feb 15, 2012 7:55 PM PST up reply actions  

Marginally helps I guess. I wonder if there will be one nightmare weekend a year of overbooking...

?..bliss for the fans, but hell on traffic, with like 3 sports’ games going on at once. I guess the seasons don’t overlap that way at all unless the M’s are in the playoffs or something.

by Chris_FB on Feb 15, 2012 7:58 PM PST up reply actions  

One of the issues with having 4 teams in the same area,

is that there is some kind of Seattle law that prohibits them from starting a sports event in SODO until the previous one has been over for 4 (i think) hours. So you’ll never have 2 teams playing at once, which will be pretty tough when the NHL, NBA and NFL and MLS overlap. I think the NHL, NBA, MLB and MLS also overlap for part of the year.

Although I’m sure this is something that they will work out and hopefully address tomorrow.

by Mind of no mind on Feb 15, 2012 9:50 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

This is a short sighted concern

If the biggest problem that comes out of this is that there simply isn’t enough transportation to get all the people to the games that want to be there, well that’s a pretty good problem to have*. When you weigh short term congestion/parking concerns against long term development/construction plans to alleviate said concerns, the whole area benefits economically in the end.

*just don’t tell that to the people in rush hour

by C Dubya on Feb 15, 2012 8:29 PM PST up reply actions  

For sure. They really will have to step up public transportation.

But I think creating that need is a good thing overall, despite the inevitable huge pain in the ass over the next few years.

by C Dubya on Feb 15, 2012 8:34 PM PST up reply actions  

You can hardly get on a light rail train:

in downtown Portland on the nights of Blazer games. They’re full of people who only get out of their Lexuses (Lexi?) to ride them to see the Blazers

"There is no sports event like Opening Day of baseball, the sense of beating back the forces of darkness and the National Football League."
—George Vecsey

by extavernmouse on Feb 16, 2012 12:09 AM PST up reply actions  

Is there a lot of cross fandom between sports?

I know a ton of people who love the Seahawks but give two shits about the M’s, Sounders and basketball in general, and others with similar thoughts going with the M’s and other sports.

How come you can do all this other great shit, but you can't lie the fuck down and sleep?

by JAH on Feb 15, 2012 8:59 PM PST up reply actions  

I would consider myself a Sounders fan first

I’m more of a fair-weather fan for all the other teams (although fair-weather is more like being watchable than being good).

I met a possum.

by s0merand0mdude on Feb 15, 2012 9:03 PM PST up reply actions  

There's a pretty good amount, sure.

Most people have one favorite, but few people that I’ve met aren’t fans of more than one.

by Aaron Campeau on Feb 15, 2012 9:43 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm not sure

I’m a Mariners fan, but I don’t live in Seattle and only lived in the area for a couple years. The Utah Jazz would be the closest NBA team to where I’m from, and I grew up a Bulls fan (lived in Chicago 1989-1998, hard not to root for the Bulls then), but I feel like I’d be most likely to root for whatever NBA team came to Seattle if an NBA team came to Seattle. I’m not much of an NFL or MLS fan, but I like hearing the Seahawks and Sounders are doing well. I haven’t really gotten into the NHL, but I’d like to and a Seattle team might just be what I need to do that.

And that’s all because of the Mariners.

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by Corco on Feb 15, 2012 9:46 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm a Mariners fan and Seahawks fan.

I’ve become more of a soccer fan with an exciting team in town, and I hate to admit that it now frustrates me when they are bad instead of being indifferent. Holy shit, I think I like the Sounders in a real emotional, fandom way. Whaaaaaat.

But even with the Sonics 2.0, I wouldn’t give two shits about the NBA. I was a fair weather fan of Sonics 1.0, much more into D1 basketball (so it’s kind of cool that the Huskies might be called “good” now, and hey Seattle U tries real hard).

A hockey game I wouldn’t be massively invested in, but I would happily go to a few games a season because hockey is the single most exciting sport to watch live.

by harkening on Feb 15, 2012 10:36 PM PST up reply actions  

If you want to get into college hoops, try Gonzaga instead of the Huskies

Honestly, while the Dawgs have better SB Nation coverage, you won’t have those random losses to Oregon to lose sleep over.

I met a possum.

by s0merand0mdude on Feb 15, 2012 10:42 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't need help getting to college hoops.

I have not missed a Duke, Gonzaga or UW game this season. Or last season. Or the season before.

by harkening on Feb 15, 2012 10:44 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm a Seattle fan in all aspects

Sonics and Mariners were easily my favorites growing up. I didn’t learn football till I got to middle school, but fell in love with it immediately and I adopted the Seahawks and Huskies. I started following soccer when the Sounders were announced, and became legitimately crazed about the sport by First Kick against NJRB. I’ll root for any sports team if they have “Seattle” on their uniform, they represent our community and bring us pride.

by OlMuckyTerraHawk on Feb 15, 2012 11:01 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

I wonder if it will actually encourage each team to improve its talent level over what it might do otherwise

Say the average person attends six pro games a year. If the Mariners are awesome and all the other teams are terrible, that person might go to six Mariners games and no other games. That would theoretically encourage the other teams to spend money to be good to try to poach games from the Mariners.

Then suddenly there’s two teams that are good, and average sports fan says “hey, maybe I should start going to eight games a year” and so on and so forth.

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by Corco on Feb 15, 2012 7:59 PM PST up reply actions  

The NBA would take the majority winter-spring block period in terms of attendance (Jan-April)

And even then there’s so much lag room in the NHL sechdule (October to April) that it would fit pretty well with the MLS, etc.

"You are the molders of their dreams." - Clark Mollenhoff

by EequalsMc2 on Feb 15, 2012 8:06 PM PST up reply actions  

I am so excited to have an NHL team to follow.

I love college hockey but have never been able to get into the pros because I have affiliation with any team.

by wetzelcoal on Feb 15, 2012 6:48 PM PST reply actions  

Hockeyyyyyyyyyy

I don’t care very much about the basketball, but a local hockey team I would care a lot about

by OlSalty on Feb 15, 2012 6:53 PM PST reply actions  

Many of us will learn to love it.

I have always known the NHL mentality is right up my ally, I just never had a strong rooting interest. Tonight I start learning hockey players’ names!

by C Dubya on Feb 15, 2012 8:47 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm not getting all excited about this yet.

Even if a deal is “done”. We don’t know what the tax payers might have to pay and what kind of backlash could happen.

Before they even break ground. They will have to go through a State Environmental Policy Act process, which requires that they prove the stadium they can mitigate transportation problems, deal with any potential archaeological problems, and other similar things. Then they have to get all their permits.

by InSpokane on Feb 15, 2012 7:02 PM PST reply actions  

I want us to tell the NBA

To go to hell until they are ready to give us our original team back. I was a season ticket holder until the end too.

by bigtrain21 on Feb 15, 2012 7:07 PM PST via Android app reply actions  

anyone remember Clay Bennnet's requested split of public/private financing?

might play a little into considering this a “win” for Seattle, depending on Hansen’s proposal.

by Will Kier on Feb 15, 2012 7:11 PM PST reply actions  

oh THIS

how could I forget that brilliant idea?

a 2007 Seattle Times report says Bennett wanted 300 million in taxpayer money for a 500 million pleasuredome.

by Will Kier on Feb 15, 2012 7:15 PM PST up reply actions  

I am stoked and I don't even live anywhere remotely near Seattle anymore.

Is there anyway we could…I dunno…buy back our history from OKC so that we and only we can represent Sonics basketball, past, present, and future?

by Omerta on Feb 15, 2012 7:11 PM PST reply actions  

I guess I favor the old model where teams move and take their histories with them

When the Dodgers moved to Los Angeles, they didn’t deny their Brooklyn years. When the A’s moved to KC and then Oakland, they didn’t deny their history. When the Lakers moved to LA, they didn’t trash their history.

This whole deal where cities wipe franchises clean after poaching them is a new one.

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by Corco on Feb 15, 2012 7:24 PM PST up reply actions  

The Cleveland Browns-Baltimore Ravens is a good example.

History of the Browns stayed in Cleveland and the players move on to a different franchise.

"You are the molders of their dreams." - Clark Mollenhoff

by EequalsMc2 on Feb 15, 2012 7:26 PM PST up reply actions  

The difference there is that when Model moved the team the agreement was that Cleveland would get an expansion team.

I can’t think of another example of a team leaving a city with a firm promise of a brand new team in a few years that could pick up the previous team’s history without any conflict.

by KC Mariner on Feb 15, 2012 7:28 PM PST up reply actions  

Personally I view it in the exact opposite way.

I think it’s insulting for a city to take a team and then pretend as though all its history belongs to them. It doesn’t. (In my opinion, obviously)

My question for you is, to whom do you think it is disrespecting to “deny” the franchise history? To the teams fans? To the former players? To the current players?

Once again, I think regarding the fans it’s the exact opposite. I imagine people in Brooklyn would’ve much preferred if the Dodgers DIDN’T take the history with them. If Los Angeles claims “ownership” of the 1955 World Series, what does that mean to people of Brooklyn? I know for a fact that the people of Baltimore HATE the fact that the Colts still maintain records from their Baltimore days. And I also know that I don’t want OKC claiming any of the old Sonics records.

Johnny Unitas never played for Indianapolis. Eric Dickerson never played for St Louis.

If the Kings move to Seattle and become the Sonics, who is insulted? The fans in Sacramento? I doubt it. People in Rochester? Cincinnati? Kansas City? I really don’t think they care. Do the fans in Sacramento really care about the 1951 championship?

by pixburgher on Feb 16, 2012 8:22 AM PST up reply actions   5 recs

I disagree

The Kings are an original team- they’ve changed names and places a couple times, but it’s a franchise with its own storied history. The Kings aren’t really a Sacramento institution- they’ve played all over the place.

If we want to rename them the Sonics- eh, I’m meh on that, but it seems super disrespectful to trash their history in the process.

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by Corco on Feb 15, 2012 7:20 PM PST up reply actions  

I'd add Charlotte

But their lease situation is such that they’ll be playing to 4,000 a night for the next decade at least

Think again

by Sportszilla on Feb 15, 2012 7:25 PM PST up reply actions  

I totally agree with that

Memphis would be great- you could embrace that team as it is because of its NW ties, or wipe it clean. The Hornets don’t have a long, embedded history- if we wanted to wipe that team clean, that’s fine.

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by Corco on Feb 15, 2012 7:25 PM PST up reply actions  

And Memphis is already in the Western Conference!

And at this moment is 10 games better than New Orleans. Move OKC to the Southwest Division and Memphis/Seattle to the Northwest Division. OKC and San Antonio/Dallas/Houston could have a rivalry and Seattle/Portland could once again have a great one. I stayed a Sonics fan despite living in Portland for years; only became a Blazers fan when they hired Nate. But it would be tough rooting for Blazers if the new team was named the Sonics…

"There is no sports event like Opening Day of baseball, the sense of beating back the forces of darkness and the National Football League."
—George Vecsey

by extavernmouse on Feb 16, 2012 12:19 AM PST up reply actions  

It seems like everything I've read makes it sound that Stern really wants to keep a team in New Orleans.

Which doesn’t make any sense. If there was a billionaire out there willing to buy the team and keep it there you’d think that would have happened by now.

by KC Mariner on Feb 15, 2012 7:31 PM PST up reply actions  

Negative publicity avoidance

’Nawlins still has plenty of sympathy from the national populace. They are a unique case.

by C Dubya on Feb 15, 2012 8:57 PM PST up reply actions  

I know I wuldn't have been happy if Bennett took the name and they were the OKC Sonics.

I am sure there would be many Kings fans that would be pissed if we became the Seattle Kings. Leave the history in Sacto where it belongs, this city has its own rich basketball history.

by Alex Kelly on Feb 15, 2012 7:26 PM PST up reply actions  

Kings are already stolen. We' have to get KC's banners.

How come you can do all this other great shit, but you can't lie the fuck down and sleep?

by JAH on Feb 15, 2012 9:03 PM PST up reply actions  

But they're not the Kings

If we gave the whole franchise to OKC and took the Sonics back, that would be awesome, but that’s not going to happen

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by Corco on Feb 15, 2012 7:44 PM PST up reply actions  

I live in California

Grew up in Washington, Mariners/Sonics/Seahawks fan. I tried to get into the Warriors and Sharks, but I couldn’t. I’m super excited for the prospect of an NBA and NHL team in Seattle though, and think I could EASILY get into those teams.

Carlos Silvelite

by OceanBird on Feb 15, 2012 7:38 PM PST reply actions  

SUCK ON THIS CLAY!

FUCK YEAH!

"You are the molders of their dreams." - Clark Mollenhoff

by EequalsMc2 on Feb 15, 2012 7:45 PM PST reply actions  

Guys like him never seem to go homeless

they just become less rich and whine about it the whole time like they suddenly have some huge burden to bear. He’ll probably have to cut back on the unicorn tear smoothies though.

by C Dubya on Feb 15, 2012 9:30 PM PST up reply actions  

Homeless? Maybe not

But they can definitely come crashing down to earth. I know one ex-millionaire who lives on social security in a trailer park due to a series of very very bad investments (mostly instigated by his crazy wife).

by Tophawkeye on Feb 15, 2012 9:41 PM PST up reply actions  

Fuck that.

I don’t want him homeless in a city with mild weather and resources for the homeless and shit. Let him get his ass kicked by rednecks and sweat his fat ass off in the OKC sun.

by Aaron Campeau on Feb 15, 2012 9:44 PM PST up reply actions   5 recs

This Blazers fan is very happy for Seattle

bring back the I-5 rivalry!

--Dave

Addicted to Quack, your friendly, neighborhood Oregon Ducks blog

by David Piper on Feb 15, 2012 8:11 PM PST reply actions  

Depnds on how you define "taxpayer" based on every report I've seen

Are you a taxpayer if you pay a tax on your ticket to the game? I would say so.

I met a possum.

by s0merand0mdude on Feb 15, 2012 9:31 PM PST up reply actions  

It depends how Seattle's initial investment is structured.

Sounds like it would be a public bond payed off by ticket revenue, ultimately backed by public money. So taxpayers would be on the hook.

Not a tax, but public money, right?

by stredarts on Feb 15, 2012 9:55 PM PST up reply actions  

Big difference between what?

There is a big difference between taxing other people in the county versus taking a percentage of the ticket revenue. But that tax revenue is only there to pay the taxpayers back for our initial loan. That loan represents a risk for all Seattle taxpayers in the case that the arena never makes money. That is why the city and county will have to carefully vet this. For someone to say there is zero cost to the taxpayer is just wrong.

by stredarts on Feb 16, 2012 11:00 AM PST up reply actions  

Not to say this doesn't sound like as good an opportunity to get a sports arena built.

Just that people shouldn’t be missled into thinking this is a risk free investment.

by stredarts on Feb 16, 2012 11:06 AM PST up reply actions  

The early impression I'm getting

is that the burden of the extra cost will be spread out among ticket buyers. Which I would have no problem with.

by C Dubya on Feb 15, 2012 9:34 PM PST up reply actions  

Some nuggets from his Twitter for the lazy

Mitch in the Morning’s Twitter

Don’t want to steal the Mayor’s thunder & say too much about the proposed deal that he’ll unveil tomorrow but I, for one, think its a BEAUTY
ZERO cost to the taxpayer. I repeat ZERO cost to the taxpayer.
Only Madison Square Garden remodel and The Staples Center would have more private money invested in them than the new Seattle Sports Complex

Lots of you are asking: Ballpark figures — $280M from private money, appr $200M from the taxes generated by the building if it is built

by algorhythm on Feb 15, 2012 9:50 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Well that does cost the taxpayer $200 million then

Tax-increment financing still costs the taxpayer- the taxpayer has to upgrade the infrastructure around the stadium and is outed the revenue it would be getting from that land anyway.

Still worth it for this though, probably.

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by Corco on Feb 15, 2012 9:56 PM PST up reply actions  

By "zero cost to the taxpayer" I think it's pretty clear what they mean

Previous stadium construction and renovations were paid for with a “stadium tax” that was tacked on to the sales tax in parts of King County, right? This would be a tax on ticket purchases ala a Tickmaster surchage. Use the facility, pay a little more for the right to use the facility. I don’t see anything wrong with that.

by Kingdomer on Feb 16, 2012 7:59 AM PST up reply actions  

Yeah they're referring to the general public when they say zero cost

Zero cost to people who don’t use or benefit from the stadium. Because that was the issue that killed previous deals. Doesn’t mean that none of the funding is coming from taxes, just that those taxes come from people using the stadium in the form of higher ticket prices.

That’s the important difference here when compared to different deals that is likely to make it more pallatable to the public.

by OlSalty on Feb 16, 2012 8:15 AM PST up reply actions  

But the lost potential revenue still costs taxpayers that don't use the stadium- plus the city is still on the hook for associated infrastructure improvements

I still think it’s a good deal, but it’s definitely not free to the taxpayers of the city or even all that cheap. The city still has to front the money for the stadium, and then it pays back the city in the form of the increase in property tax that occurs when the land value of the arena site goes up. That’s a substantial amount of lost opportunity cost.

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by Corco on Feb 16, 2012 8:58 AM PST up reply actions  

Well sure, but a couple of things

First, the proposal as it is being reported right now is – if I’m reading it right – looking at less than 50% funding from public funds. This is well below the public funding levels for Safeco (reportedly 340 of 517 million mostly from rental car tax and restaurant tax) and Qwest/CenturyLink (300 of 430 million).

Second, obviously the assumption is that landowners will profit from increased property values in the long run (the Atlantic Rail Yards/Nets Arena is a good analog – right down the street from where I live and the real estate people have made an absolute killing since the project started), and that local business will profit from the increased business being done pre and post game – which in turn further benefits the city in the form of increased tax collection. So while there certainly is a lost opportunity cost in terms of initial outlay, it’s hopefully not a zero sum game.

by Kingdomer on Feb 16, 2012 9:21 AM PST up reply actions  

Well right, and that second part is what makes it a good deal

Now, there have been deals like this in the past where entire districts are warded off- if the new arena is built in SoDo, and property values go up, then 100% of property tax paid as a result of increased property value for everything within a half mile of the stadium or something goes to pay off the stadium, and that’s a bad deal, but if it’s just the stadium paying for itself and the city gets to reap the rest of it, that’s well worth the infrastructure costs.

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by Corco on Feb 16, 2012 9:37 AM PST up reply actions  

What you don't want is a deal where everything near the stadium is contributing to the local tax base at 2012 levels in 2040 while the gains are still paying off the stadium

If it’s just the stadium paying for itself…eh, that’s not amazing per se, but it’s definitely more than palatable with the associated benefits.

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by Corco on Feb 16, 2012 9:40 AM PST up reply actions  

I completely agree with this.

And not that bad deals haven’t been done before, but that seems like a pretty one-sided arrangement. I’d certainly HOPE the city wouldn’t go towards something that would require that kind of commitment.

by Kingdomer on Feb 16, 2012 1:26 PM PST up reply actions  

I wouldn't want to speculate on details for something that hasn't even remotely happened yet

But you’re right, that would be a horrible deal. There’s evidence that since Safeco (which I personally think was a horrible deal for the city) that Seattle has gotten much smarter. The Qwest Field deal actually had a hard cap on public contribution at 300 million. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a similar provision here.

by Kingdomer on Feb 16, 2012 1:24 PM PST up reply actions  

The cool thing to think about is that Seattle will have the original Winnipeg Jets.

It’s too bad that there is a new Winnipeg Jets, because Seattle Jets would’ve been fitting.

2011 Safeco Field Record: 1-0 ; Overall Safeco Field Record: 13-5

by Fin on Feb 15, 2012 9:57 PM PST reply actions  

The first triple-header day in April will be fun.

I think I’d want to go baseball then hockey then soccer.

by Matthew on Feb 15, 2012 10:04 PM PST reply actions  

Yeah, seems about right.

Of course if the baseball game was last you could sleep off the booze from the first two.

by Aaron Campeau on Feb 15, 2012 10:05 PM PST up reply actions  

Sleeping would be the only thing you could do

since they would deny you alcohol by then.

2011 Safeco Field Record: 1-0 ; Overall Safeco Field Record: 13-5

by Fin on Feb 15, 2012 10:07 PM PST up reply actions  

Optimism among Seattle fans!

Come on guys, let’s be real, bad luck, sports, and Seattle just go together.

Kings stay in Sacramento
Memphis goes to Kansas City
Hornets go to Anaheim
Coyotes stay in Arizona

etc, etc, etc, joking of course

Carlos Silvelite

by OceanBird on Feb 15, 2012 11:41 PM PST reply actions  

Optimisim:

Kings stay in Sacramento
Memphis goes to Vancouver
Hornets stay in New Orleans
MILWAUKEE goes to Seattle
Coyotes go to Seattle
Carolina goes to Portland

THREE-SPORT CASCADIA RIVALRY!

by Agent_J on Feb 15, 2012 11:55 PM PST up reply actions  

Oregon Optimist:

Rays go to Portland. Opening Day Matt Moore vs. Felix in the new Rose Garden Ballpark!

"There is no sports event like Opening Day of baseball, the sense of beating back the forces of darkness and the National Football League."
—George Vecsey

by extavernmouse on Feb 16, 2012 12:25 AM PST up reply actions  

I'd be pumped to see a hockey franchise in Seattle.

As for the NBA? It’s such a shitty league right now that taking the Kings from Sacramento and transplanting them in Seattle would in no way sway me back to being a fan. Give us our original Sonics back and we’ll talk, NBA.

by JLProck on Feb 16, 2012 12:26 AM PST reply actions  

Trust me, I've tried with the NBA.

I thought maybe Blake Griffin would possibly bring me back. Then I realized he and Chris Paul are just Thunder and Lightning Lite.

by JLProck on Feb 16, 2012 9:54 AM PST up reply actions  

I think there was a banner in the Coliseum...

And yes, I realize how badly I dated myself there, but I don’t remember whether the banner was up in the Key

by Kingdomer on Feb 16, 2012 1:28 PM PST up reply actions  

Since most people in Seattle are hockey neophytes,

is there any chance that the new NHL owndership might look to the Sounders as an example of how to introduce a new pro sport to a city, rather than other sports?

I’m really looking forward to seeing my first live NHL game, but I really hope they can do it more like the Sounders, rather than having YMCA and C&C Music factory blaring during time outs, and the old “da da da DA da DA! CHARGE!” crap.

by Mind of no mind on Feb 16, 2012 12:43 PM PST reply actions  

Soccer culture is different from baseball culture, so the Sounders introduction followed a model provided by some world class soccer franchises with the fan involvement, and the supporters groups are likewise unique to the sport.

The Sounders also benefited from a local pro soccer history in the USL, which bore with it historical continuity with the NASL.

The Seattle areas hockey culture doesn’t quite have the hold that soccer does, and the models provided by franchises don’t exactly demand high fan involvement with the operation of the club (though based on Vancouver riots, the club might be able to coop hooliganism from the Sounders*). Moreover, the WHL – a junior league – has teams in both Everett and Seattle (well, Kent) in the Silvertips and Thunderbirds. So there’s obviously a divided fan base with local hockey, though the level of play in the WHL is mildly embarrassing. I’m not sure how big a draw a Seattle NHL franchise would be because of the local hockey scene set up as is, though they could probably outdraw Phoenix.

You won’t hear “YMCA” or the “CHARGE!” thing coming at a hockey game, though. I have never been a vocal fan at live events, but it’s hard not to get caught up in hockey.

*Sounders supporters groups are hardly hooligans, but man B.C. takes its hockey seriously.

by harkening on Feb 16, 2012 5:41 PM PST up reply actions  

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