Seattle Mariners Organization and Minors
by tarheels24 on Jan 23, 2012 9:30 PM PST
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PrintHey all, it has been a while since I posted on here in a way other than comments and recently I have been looking at the organization as a whole and figured to share some of my thoughts and hopefully good insight on it all.
Following the trade for Montero the other day, the Mariners made one of the more stunning moves of the offseason, and while the good and bad of what we gave up has been debated back and forth many times now, the reality is Pineda is not ours but Montero is. In Montero we get what we hope will become a bat that sits in the middle of our order for years to come. Technically Montero is still a prospect although he is almost for sure to start the year in the majors this year. Looking at our Major League Roster with Montero in it we currently look to have good youth to build around in the future.
With Ackley, Montero, Smoak, and Felix holding down the young core in the majors and Carp potentially having a chance to join that group, one of my favorite things to look at is the minors and the system we have growing there. I, as many of you know, feel that the best way to build a long-term successful team is to build from within and supplement with FA signings to help put a team over the top. This is why I am very hopeful with the Mariners future when looking at the system Z has worked to put together in the recent years.
Headlined by what I consider our "Big 5" our system starts off extremely strong with the quintuplet of Montero, Hultzen, Walker, Paxton, and Franklin. This group of 5, I feel can rival just about any other organizations in the league. Hultzen, the 2nd overall pick in last year's draft, is someone we are all fairly familiar with. Although there was much commotion when the pick was announced, I have grown to love the pick as time goes on and he proves his worth. Pitching in the AFL, his only professional action thus far, Hultzen started 6 games pitching to the tune of a 1.40 ERA in just over 16 innings striking out 18 in this time. While a small sample size his showing was impressive and in the Rising Stars game, pitching against Gerrit Cole, it was a beautiful thing to see him strike out Grossman, Trout, and Lake, especially Trout:
http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=19980217&c_id=mlb
Walker, while never pitching above Single-A Clinton, has made a name for himself in his first professional season out of high school. At only 19 (not 20 until August), Walker, who was considered raw coming out of the draft after being a two-sport athlete in high school, flashed much more polish than was expected. He still has work to do on his Change-up and the control/command combo, but both the fastball and curveball look to be potentially elite and if the Change develops in the next year I won't be afraid to say he has ace potential. Keeping in mind that he is only 19, it is likely that he will start at High Desert next year if not just for the fact that it is near where he is from. A push to AA Jackson is feasible during the season and it wouldn't surprise me to see it if he has success at High Desert.
Paxton, while he doesn't have the ace potential I see the other two having, does have what it takes to potentially become a solid #1 for most teams. More realistically I expect to see him become a very good #2 pitcher, but he is the last part of this trio that rivals any other trio of pitching in the minors. Paxton saw action at both Clinton and Jackson this season, forming a dominating duet with Walker to start the season and finishing the season demolishing the Southern AA league. I personally got to witness his 13 SO performance against the Carolina Mudcats and came away thoroughly impressed. While he does have some issues with his control he has shown some really good stuff and I think Al Skorupa of Bullpen Banter says it well:
I was not as big a fan of James Paxton when he was drafted, though I thought it was a great pick in the fourth round. I was turned off by Paxton's lack of a third pitch, some injury issues, his age and his velocity dipping in independent ball. Well... I was wrong! Paxton has some very good stuff for a lefty. His hard, bowling ball FB is impossible for hitters to elevate or do anything with. The CB is a plus pitch as well. Sadly for Paxton, this is one of a very few systems where he wouldn't have the best CB in the org! He's cleaned up his game all around and his CU has improved, leaving me with very little reservations about projecting as a good 2/3 starter.
The last of the Big 5 is Nick Franklin. Entering the season he had built up a ton of hype after demolishing in Low-A ball as a first year player. Due to unfortunate circumstances and some struggles to start the season he has slid a little bit in some rankings, but for the most part he is still viewed as a future SS with a good bat. Some still question how much power he projects to have but as a switch hitter, who was performing well in a short AA stint before a blow to the head and mono knocked him out, who is still only 20 and likely to start the season in AA or possibly AAA, he still profiles as a top SS prospect and one easily within the top 100 prospects in the game. Like Hultzen, he also played in the AFL this summer and while his numbers fluctuated throughout he did do this:
http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=19981415&c_id=mlb
Frankie Piliere said this regarding Franklin and the AFL:
Certain players look like they were made to play the game. Franklin is one of those players. While his physical skills are impressive, his feel for the game stands out significantly compared to more crude young players. Franklin has a wiry, athletic frame and looks to be the type of athlete who could thrive anywhere on the field. But, he clearly has the tools to be an everyday big league shortstop. He shows enough pure arm strength to make the plays deep in the hole and his range grades out as plus as well.
Franklin has struggled in AFL action, but it does not take away from the hitter he figures to be in the big leagues. He looked more comfortable from the right side in the fall league, showing off impressive pull power. But, his swing looks just as compact and effortless from the left side. In time, he looks like he'll be an impressive gap hitter from each side, with potential 15-20 home run pop
Another player that you will see pushing for Top 100 prospect considerations is Vincent Catricala. The knock on him is not the bat, but rather where does he fit on defense. Most reports have him not staying at third and potentially not even being able to handle a spot in LF. If he is forced to a spot at 1B or DH then it is highly unlikely that his bat is enough to play at that position daily. As much as I hate to say it as I am a big fan of the bat, I am starting to see him as a Carp-light, as he may not be able to handle LF to the extent that Carp does.
Francisco Martinez is an actual 3B in the system that, unlike Cat, should actually stay there. If the name is familiar it is because he was one of the pieces acquired in the Fister trade and in my mind could end up being the best piece in the deal over the long term. Rushed by the Tigers, Martinez is still raw in many areas, but his bat made good strides last year and although his stats in some areas thus far haven't shown the promise that scouts see him building to recently, he still looks like a player who could be above average in many ways in the majors someday. Perfect Game wrote him up in this way:
Martinez's set of tools provide plenty of reason for optimism in the long term, though he has yet to put together an overly impressive season as a professional. His 33 game stint with AA Jackson was encouraging, as he hit .310/.326/.481 and has begun to realize some of his power potential. His 10 Home Runs at AA in 2011 were double his previous career total, and his power numbers are beginning to catch up to his tools. But for him to be an asset to the Mariners he will have to continue to develop his power to at least average MLB levels, which he projects to do. But the slow development to this point is a minor concern. His contact skills make up for his lack of plate discipline, which was quite solid in his native Venezuela, but has leveled out since moving up to higher levels of pro ball. His above average speed has translated poorly into stolen base success, going 10-for-20 in 2011 and is 54-for-80 in his career. His defensive tools suggest he should be a quality defender at 3B, which makes the high error rates all the more puzzling. While the stat sheet doesn't suggest Martinez's future is very bright, scouts believe that there is a lot of upside. While he has a ways to go, Martinez has a chance to become an impact player at the Major League level. Whether or not he will reach that potential is very much up in the air.
A counter part of Martinez in the Fister trade is someone who we have some familiarity with already in the majors as Chance Ruffin profiles to be a good reliever who is ready now and while he may not be a closer now, it is not out of the question that someday he develops into one.
The next name I want to mention is Alex Liddi. Seemingly he has been around forever but is only 23. Reports have indicated that his glove is getting better and it is not as much a foregone conclusion that he will move off 3rd as it was a year or two ago. His bat still profiles with a lot of power but not the best average. I believe I may have come around some in the recent months and while I still don't think he will be any kind of above average player, it is possible to me now that he provides something on the level of average in the Major Leagues, although he still has quite a few improvements to make before reaching that point.
A couple young International guys who have been in the system a year now are Phillips Castillo and Martin Peguero (Estelion). Both had mixed results in their debuts but both show promise. Castillo has a very high ceiling bat, which is good because he most likely will be a LF, and if he makes strides in plate discipline outside of the Arizona Rookie League, John Sickles thinks he could make enough strides that he could potentially be the best bat in the Mariner system after next year. Peguero, meanwhile was much more erratic then Castillo, and hasn't lived up to his bonus yet, but is just 17 and has a lot of time to do that.
One of the most recent international signings, Victor Sanchez, has not pitched for any Mariner team yet, but was considered probably the best International Free Agent in the class this year. As usual scouting reports on these players can be a little more vague, but luckily Sanchez has been on the scene for a good while, evicting this write-up from BA:
Sanchez, a 16-year-old from Caracas, is an interesting prospect as a right fielder as well, due to his above-average arm and raw power, though he doesn't make enough contact for teams to take him off the mound. Sanchez isn't tall (6-foot, 185 pounds), but he has a body like a bull, with a strong, thick frame with sloped shoulders and large hands. His fastball ranges from 89-92 mph and touches 94. He has a loose arm and does it fairly easily. His athleticism helps him repeat his delivery and throw strikes with his fastball to both sides of the plate. Sanchez also throws a plus slider and has shown feel for a changeup, and he'll mix in an occasional curveball. While Sanchez likely has the most present talent in this year's pitching crop, scouts wonder how much projection he has left. His body is relatively filled out and his fastball won't gain much more velocity. Sanchez doesn't miss as many bats as scouts would expect, as his fastball can get straight. Sanchez is represented by Carlos Gavidia, who represented Cardona last year. Many scouts believe Sanchez is the better prospect, though he isn't expected to match Cardona's $2.8 million bonus.
Going back a ways, unfortunately I cannot find the tweet, there was a tweet at the time of the signing from him (through someone else) that the Mariners saw him as a quick mover, to the tune of possibility of seeing the majors within 4 years. If the Mariners do see him highly then I see no reason not to be bullish on him.
Another player that I find myself bullish about is one Guillermo Pimentel. Pimentel, like Castillo, could rocket up charts if he makes any strides in plate discipline this next year. After showing off monster power this year he has proven that the power is not the question, but the 73 SO in 265 AB's is. Personally, I like him as an 18 year old prospect but at this point there is as good of a chance he completely busts as he becomes a regular.
To touch on a few more from this last draft Carter Capps is one of my favorite draftees this year and will definitely get a chance to start I would hope although he could be fast tracked to the bullpen. Capps had a great showing on the Cape this year, although mostly appearing out of the bullpen. Playing college ball at Mount Olive University in NC, I got a chance to see him a few times this year and think he has a chance to develop as a starter and a good one at that. If not he could be a dominant reliever. Brad Miller, the 2nd round pick, is one of those Ackley/Seager types who absolutely destroyed college pitching, and one that I am very interested in watching as he could stay at SS long term and at worst could be a quality utility man, but could end up a quality regular. Tyler Marlette is the last prospect I will touch on in depth at all but a player that fell due to perceived bonus demands this last year is a guy worth a follow through the system. Athletic for a catcher, boasting a strong are and good power potential out of high school Marlette, along with Capps were the two steals of this draft. Signing him was somewhat of a surprise to me actually. PG had this to say before the draft:
Tyler Marlette is a 2011 C/3B with a 5-11 200 lb. frame from Oviedo, FL who attends Hagerty HS. Strong loose mature build. Outstanding defensive tools, extremely strong arm, stays low, flexible lower half, quick actions, on line throws with plus accuracy. Right handed hitter, open bent knee stance, quick hands, pretty short to the ball, looking to pull and lift, shows present power and nice extension out front, ball comes off hard. Top level talent, potential high draft pick. Good student, signed with U. Central Florida.
With all this typed out I feel obliged to rank my top 15 or 20 here for kicks and giggles. To add to the appeal I will add faces. You guys seem to like faces. I like faces too. So now for some faces:
1 - Danny Hultzen - LHP - Gets the nod over Taijuan because of proximity to the big team
2 - Taijuan Walker - RHP - Love his potential.
3 - Jesus Montero - C/? - Yes, I placed him 3rd. Yes, I did it. Not because of his bat. Oh no, I love the bat. Just that little question mark up near the position worries me.
via rotochamp.com
4 - Nick Franklin - SS - Rating him ahead of Paxton, but just barely. I think he has the potential to be a top 25 prospect after this season.
via www.minorleaguebaseball.com
5 - James Paxton - LHP - Could feasibly see Seattle at some point this year. Getting him and Walker in the same draft was amazing.
via web.minorleaguebaseball.com
6 - Francisco Martinez - 3B - While he has more to figure out then Catricala, he has a more set position.
7 - Vincent Catricala - 3B/LF/1B - That is a lot of positions.... But the bat is real.
via www.minorleaguebaseball.com
8 - Chance Ruffin - RP - Could be a stalwart in our bullpen for a long time.
9 - Phillips Castillo - OF - Really think he could challenge Franklin for the #2 spot next year.
10 - Victor Sanchez - RHP - Really bullish on him, can't wait to see him pitch.
11 - Alex Liddi - 3B - If he sticks at 3B and can play adequate defense he could be useful in the following years
via web.worldbaseballclassic.com
12 - Carter Capps - RHP - I think he can stay in the rotation, also could be dominate out of bullpen
13 - Guillermo Pimentel - OF - Praying he shows some more discipline because if he does he has one of the highest potentials of any one in the minor leagues.
via www.minorleaguebaseball.com
14 - Brad Miller - SS - Probably a little low but could end up showing up like Seager has the past couple years.
via orangeandbruise.files.wordpress.com
15 - Martin Peguero - SS - Would love to see more out of him this year. Another guy who could jump a lot.
16 - Tyler Marlette - The highest of the trio of the catchers we picked this year, I am really interested in following his path.
Also of some significance, with the addition of Montero, Sickles rated the farm system #4 today. Surprised me due to the way the Mariners push young players into the majors sometimes. I would expect us to sit around 7-13 most years with a lot of young talent spread throughout the entire organization.
Now I said I was looking at the organization, so I would be remiss if I let it go without taking a look at some talent that could potentially end up in Seattle next year, so quickly I will introduce to my current favorite for us to take with the #3 pick next year in the draft. His name is Byron Buxton and here is an article detailing some of his skills:
http://rise.espn.go.com/baseball/articles/2011/09/14-Byron-Buxton.aspx
The first connection I made with Buxton is of Starling of last year who was picked fifth overall by the Royals. Doing some more research this is how I broke it down on the 5 tool scouting scale:
- Speed - Buxton > Starling - Buxton is rated by many as a 70+ runner and even though Starling is very fast himself, he does not match Buxton. Also looked at some football film to help with this.
- Arm - Buxton = Starling - For both players these are already top notch tools. Both HS Quarterbacks, Buxton hits 94 off the mound as well.
- Glove - Starling > Buxton - Starling, while not quite as fast, seems to instinctively take better routes than Buxton, but both have the range to be great in CF
- Hitting - Buxton > Starling - Buxton's swing is more consistent at this point in time and he does a good job letting the ball get deep due to his quick swing which allows him to recognize pitches pretty well. Both still are working on plate discipline although Buxton is ahead at this point
- Power - Buxton > Starling - Both are well built and have great bodies for muscle. Both put on shows at Wrigley. Both look poised to potentially hit 30 HR's a year. Yet both play CF, and will stay there. Really impressive, just giving Buxton the slight edge here.
- Overall - It is extremely close but I am leaning Buxton slightly over Starling on this one.
Also here is his face:
Thanks for reading, would love to hear your thoughts.
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I'm also a fan of Buxton at the moment.
That said, we have no real way of telling what the M’s are thinking. I can’t even cite past drafts as precedents. They like who they like and who knows who that will be.
And we most likely will have no idea who that will be until the pick.
Ex 1 – Hultzen
See the 3 pre-written articles you couldn’t post.
Messing with you Jay
Within a few seconds, there were posts by Dave, Marc, and me in the USSM trash bin.
But to expand on my earlier comment about how the drafts so far haven’t adhered to a clear pattern, here’s something clipped from one of my weekly wraps from last year:
* The first high school pitcher selected by the M’s this year was left-hander Nick Valenza in the eighteenth round, a 5’9 kid with a live arm. Six high school pitchers were selected in all. By contrast, when the eighteenth round came last year, the Mariners had already selected seven high school pitchers. We may think we know something of McNamara’s draft style, but we probably don’t know as much as we believe.
* Part two on that note… six of the batters we drafted were left-handed and one switch hits. Last year it was five left-handers and two switch hitters, but in 2009, it was fifteen left-handers and three switch hitters. We thought that left-handers would get an overwhelming preference, but we were probably wrong.
* Part three on that note… this past year, we stuck around Virginia and the Carolinas for five of the picks in the first ten rounds. Similarly, in 2009, when we had twelve picks in the first ten rounds, four of them were from North Carolina and one from Virginia snuck in during the twelfth round. However, in 2010, we selected only one player from those three states in the entire draft and it was rather late. Again, we probably don’t know as much about McNamara’s draft philosophy as we think we do. There probably isn’t an easily identifiable pattern that emerges from them.
Very true.
No discernible pattern I have been able to make out yet. They just seem like the identify who they like, then don’t talk about it until they make their pick. They don’t seem to care where they are from or what age they are, if they see them as the best, then they go with it.
If anything it gives me more faith in our Scouting Department, not to be able to tell where our weakest area is because we are so spread.
Right, though there are still areas it seems like we're more inclined to visit than others.
And we all know that the Rays run circles around us in scouting our own backyard. But we seem to have moved away from the Midwest-heavy drafts of yore.
Is it maybe because we don't spend enough on scouting?
It seems that we have a budget for scouting, and we like to spend it on certain areas that look good, while the Rays/Jays/Rangers tend to spend the most on scouting so they cover the most ground.
I wouldn't say that.
Scouting departments tend to have certain areas that they exploit more simply because they have one or more really good scouts that work that particular beat. The Braves, unsurprisingly for them, invest a lot of money into their operations in Georgia. The Rays, because they apparently think they live in the weird alternate timeline where the Mariners did move to Tampa, invest a lot of their money into scouting the Pacific Northwest.
We might not work those areas as heavily as they do, but they probably have blind spots, so to speak, where we’re running circles around them anyway. Our Venezuelan scouting is considered to be one of the better operations down there. We probably wouldn’t have picked up on Taijuan Walker or someone like Brandon Maurer if our California operation wasn’t pretty good. Catricala is ours in part because we scout Hawaii a lot more than other clubs do. In the past, it was our Midwest operations that seemed to take precedent over everything else, though we’ve since scaled back from that.
There are certainly places where it’s a better idea to have a good ground operation. You don’t want to completely ignore warm weather places like California, Texas, Florida, and Georgia because the climate makes for more available time for baseball and usually better places. Similarly, you don’t really hear about teams having a great operation in Alaska because there’s just not enough baseball there (we sure scouted the hell out of Montana for a while though!). But each team inevitably develops certain specialties based on who works for them and that’s just how it is.
by JY on Jan 25, 2012 1:53 PM PST up reply actions 11 recs
what's stopping another team from scouting those areas
just as well? Why can’t we scout Georgia as well as Atlanta, or the PNW as well as the Rays for example? Is it just a limited number of quality scouts a team could have, or is it a budget thing where we don’t have 400 scouts we can send everywhere. I guess that’s what I’m trying to figure out…reading about what the O’s did with their scouting department, or what the Jays did a couple years ago makes me wonder if we’re underspending on scouting compared to other teams that are traditionally good at finding depth.
Probably a limited number of quality scouts available and the organizations own trust in them.
Scouting pays horribly. There aren’t a whole lot of people that do it for a living. But it seems very unlikely to me that we would be underspending.
by JY on Jan 25, 2012 2:41 PM PST up reply actions
Long-story short, what's the deal with scouting Alex Liddi? How'd that come about?
follow @casetines
by Kenneth Arthur on Jan 25, 2012 5:53 PM PST up reply actions
Our European scouting is probably the second best in the business behind the Twins?
For whatever reasons, the Mariners established a scouting foothold in Italy around the turn of the last century, which is something that teams generally do if they perceive that a region might produce players in the future. Even if the players at present are terrible, you’re getting your name out there for not very much investment.
Anyway, they signed about three or four different guys (Giuseppe Mazzanti, Francesco Imperiali, etc), none of whom stayed around for very long because they were not good and the visa laws were fucked at the time. This paved the way for us to sign Liddi in 2005 and the rest is history.
also, there’s a MLB academy in Italy that draws from all over Europe. Liddi is the first graduate from that to make the big leagues!
by JY on Jan 25, 2012 6:47 PM PST up reply actions
You totally just made those names up
by Punkhazard on Jan 25, 2012 8:08 PM PST up reply actions 5 recs
Mario Chiarini too.
I usually only remember Mazzanti’s name and then have to type in three or four different spellings before B-R hits it and I can trace it back to the 2002 Peoria Mariners.
by JY on Jan 25, 2012 8:20 PM PST up reply actions
Antonio Margheriti! Antonio Margheriti!
by Kenneth Arthur on Jan 26, 2012 8:51 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Gratzi
"Tell my tale to those who ask. Tell it truly, the ill deeds along with the good and let me be judged accordingly. The rest is silence." ~ Dinobot
by beastwarking on Jan 28, 2012 2:25 PM PST up reply actions
Strong presence in Holland also
There was Halman(unfortunate as the ending was), Sams, Jereon de Haas, Lars Huijer, and Scott Ronnenborgh. Vlad was also kind of from Holland, being from the former Netherlands Antilles now Curacao.
by tdot mariner fan on Jan 28, 2012 9:43 PM PST up reply actions
Wlad.
We’ve had plenty of players from the Antilles in the system for a while, but most of them haven’t amounted to much. Reginald Lampe, Kenny Hart, Rayon Lampe… There are a few newcomers like Aljeurreau Bishop, Rashynol Michel, and Gianfranco Wawoe, but it’s been a long time since our Curacao/Aruba scouting has yielded anything other than silly names.
by JY on Jan 28, 2012 9:55 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
I do not follow the DSL so it is good to see they are still scouting there
I do remember one of the Lampes striking out too much. There has been so MLB talent coming from there in the past 5 years so I hope that keeps up.
It will be interesting to see how the market reacts to the IFA rules. I can see some buscones with top talent holding out for still high bonuses causing medium talent in the 500,000-1,000,000 signing range and even lower ones being choked out by almost no cap space being left after the top talent. It might become a bit of a game for teams trying to get top IFA talent.
by tdot mariner fan on Jan 29, 2012 1:16 PM PST up reply actions
Other teams probably scout that area more heavily than we do.
I’m not coming up with any names at the moment (I thought Royals, I was wrong), but we haven’t been among the teams to sign a “big name” out of there for a while.
One bit of fallout I’ve heard rumblings about with regard to the rule changes is that it’s resulted in a lot of the Dominican talent that would otherwise be playing baseball moving back to the soccer fields. We’ll have to see within the next few years whether or not that’s been the case. But one positive that could come out of it is that it might lead teams to expand operations in areas that haven’t been scouted as heavily. I know there was some talk a while back about the Rays opening a facility in Brazil, but there’s also Colombia, Nicaragua, and Panama to consider. This of course all assumes that the other countries don’t have as much of a talent loss due to the bonus changes, largely because they weren’t getting that much money in the first place.
by JY on Jan 29, 2012 1:30 PM PST up reply actions
The Giants have had a few good players from there in the last few years of the previous decade
I am somewhat surprised about the Dominican seeing people go to football, I never thought of it as a footballing nation. I always thought that in the Carribean it was only popular in Peurto Rico, Haiti, and the many former English colonial Carribean nations.
I am very worried about the affect in nations like the ones you listed there, Panama, Columbia, and Nicaragua, where football is already popular. In Nicaragua and Panama, there is already a strong draw. This comes at a interesting time in Columbia also where the domestic league’s sides have done better in continental competition the past 3 years, which can only reinforce the entrenchment of football in coastal cities. With the decreasing bonus money, I can seriously see young players not choosing baseball.
This all speculative of course, I have no idea what will happen but as a baseball fan, I would hope the sport could expand in terms of professional competitions and talent sources beyond North America, Cuba, Japan, and the Carribean.
by tdot mariner fan on Jan 29, 2012 2:13 PM PST up reply actions
Have you guys heard anymore about Franklin and the possibility of giving up switch hitting?
I know you (tarheels) said that he looked better right handed in the AFL, but I remember him being pretty awful right handed over the past two seasons
I have not heard anything.
In the AFL he was still working both sides and I personally thin he has a good swing from both. Just needs a little refinement.
Great writeup, just wanted to say thanks for the awesome work.
by Ackfan on Jan 24, 2012 12:12 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Second this.
Always love and appreciate your work, Tarheels.
by Aussie Mariner on Jan 24, 2012 4:24 AM PST up reply actions
3rd this
This is a massive bit of background, I’m going to have to come back to this a few times to digest it all. Very well done.
Thank all of you guys.
There were guys who were left off the list as a result of just going 16. If you have any questions let me know.
James Paxton looks like Ben Stiller. Its kind of creapy
And Pimental looks like he hasn’t fully hit puberty yet.
"Tell my tale to those who ask. Tell it truly, the ill deeds along with the good and let me be judged accordingly. The rest is silence." ~ Dinobot
Is Catricala truly that horrific on defense? And truly unteachable in that regard?
Given what we’ve seen from LF for years, and 3b since Beltre left, I’d accept a downgrade on defense on either of those if the bat is decent. Not quite Raul Ibanez level downgrade, but close. If he could be shored up defensively through intensive coaching, and if there’s confidence that he’s the only weak defender among LF/CF/3b/SS, perhaps his weakness can be absorbed a bit…
I was able to see him twice this year at 3B.
He did make a couple nice plays, and I wasn’t quite sure at the time why people didn’t think he could play it all. I have had thoughts about whether it was mostly group think, but truth of it is the Mariners played him in LF a lot more down the stretch so it may be they see it also.
I wish I could say more definitively but I have not been able to see him enough.
It would be spectacular
if he could stick at 3B. It would be nice to finally have a potential plus bat at the corner. I know that Beltre was that, but he was hurt a lot by Safeco and I don’t think we’d had another plus bat at 3B since, what, Edgar?
Mike Blowers, briefly.
That’s all you get.
by nathaniel dawson on Jan 26, 2012 4:26 PM PST up reply actions
All the more reason that I'm hoping Cat can come up in a year or two and man 3B.
We need someone there that can hit, and pretty badly. Well, we just need people who can hit in general, but it would be nice if we had someone at 3B.
Thanks for the writeup!
When can we realistically hope for Walker to reach the big leagues? 2014?
It really depends.
If he performs well in High A, or the club feels he has made enough progress, I think we see him in AA to end the year. Whether he starts there or in AAA the next season I can’t predict. I would say earliest mid 2013. Realistically I wouldn’t be surprised to see him break camp in 2014. I won’t predict a latest because anything could happen.
I think early 2013 isn't out of the question
with the caveat that that’s a best case scenario.
He could finish this year in AA. After that, it’s just a matter of roster construction. If he dominates this year, there’s no real reason to get him lots of AAA seasoning in 2013 (though I would really like to see him) just because you have that year’s Kevin Millwood or whatever. It’d definitely depend on how many starts he got in AA this year.
Felix isn’t a good precedent because he’s Felix, and Pineda isn’t perfect either because he lost most of a year to an elbow problem and caution. Obviously, there are better precendents outside the org – Madison Bumgarner, Clayton Kershaw, Jordan Lyles, etc.
Again, this is all assuming that he’s as dominant in AA as he was in the midwest league, which is unlikely, but holy crap I love Taijuan Walker.
I can't really see early 2013
He only pitched 96 IP last year. If we’re slightly conservative with him, meaning 30 IP jumps a year, he’d be ready to pitch 155 IP in 2013. That doesn’t sound MLB ready – 2014 looks perfect though.
Pineda only went 171 last year.
Ogando went 169 but under 140 as a starter.
You forgot to point out that Carter Capps throws from his knees.
Imagine what he could do if he stood up.
by zeeehjee on Jan 25, 2012 12:28 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
.
Getting him and Walker in the same draft was amazing.
And we didn’t have any picks until the 43rd that draft too. (damn you Figgins!)
Fantastic post... just what my brain needed
It dawned on me that they all look like kids (except Ben Stiller and Hultzen who’s pitch face is kind of like the 60 year old Korean running the 7-11 up the block). Then I realized… I’m old.
The international scouting
for the M’s is simply top notch.
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