Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Trent Richardson Interviews Fellow Brown Brandon Weeden

Franklin Gutierrez And The Future

We're conditioned to ignore stories about players being in the best shape of their lives. Or stories about players being in better shape at all. Maybe we don't ignore them entirely, but we pay them little mind. It's been established many times over that these stories don't really mean anything. At least in terms of performance improvement. Hearing that a player is in the best shape of his life means that the player is probably in the best shape of his life, but people have struggled to find any meaningful and consistent relationship between this and the numbers. There probably isn't one. So we don't care. We generally don't care how a player looks, or how a player feels. We care how a player does.

For example, I just read this morning that Dexter Fowler is in really good shape. Dexter Fowler of the Rockies, if you weren't familiar with Dexter Fowler. I'm guessing that Dexter Fowler was already in really good shape. Now he's in better shape. But, so what? How much better shape is he in? By what percent did his physical condition improve? Is he going to hit more dingers now? Is he going to swing at fewer balls? One should assume that Dexter Fowler is going to continue to be Dexter Fowler, for everything that he is and isn't.

We get it. Most of us get that "better shape" doesn't necessarily mean "better performance". Better shape very infrequently means better performance, and in the event of better performance, it's an open question as to whether it had anything to do with the better shape. Consciously and deliberately, this is understood. What makes it tricky is that we're always hoping. It makes some intuitive sense that a player getting into better shape might play better baseball, so when we hear that a player on our team has been working out, we think, maybe. We can't help dreaming, even though we know better.

This has all been building up to a tweet from the Mariners last week:

Mariners GM Jack Zduriencik told RBI Club members Franklin Gutierrez has put on 19lbs since end of season and is feeling strong.

That's it. A simple tweet. One simple, short message. A message delivered to whatever the RBI Club is. But contained within that short message is so much God damn hope. It's like a liqueur-filled chocolate where you bite into it and wonder how they pumped so much liqueur into the middle of such a small edible box.

This is, at its core, a reference to Franklin Gutierrez being in really good shape. When a player is reported to be in really good shape, ordinarily we try to ignore it. But this is Franklin Gutierrez. Doesn't Franklin Gutierrez seem like he could be an exception? Doesn't Franklin Gutierrez present a different sort of case, where there status of his shape is meaningful information?

Last season, Franklin Gutierrez posted a .534 OPS. He wasn't much better at the plate than Chone Figgins. He hit as many home runs as Chone Figgins. That's one home run. Franklin Gutierrez hit one home run. His defense wasn't a problem. His footspeed was fine. His discipline didn't erode. He just didn't have any strength. Balls he hit on the barrel died in front of the track. He homered in his sixth game, and then didn't homer again over his remaining 86 games. His season ended early with an injury.

What happened to Franklin Gutierrez's strength? We don't know for certain, but we can be pretty damn sure it has something to do with his gastrointestinal problems. When you have trouble exercising and when you have trouble eating, you tend to get weaker. Franklin Gutierrez got weaker, and he lost a lot of weight off of what was already a fairly slender frame.

Now we hear that Gutierrez has re-gained a significant amount of weight. Now we hear that Gutierrez has re-gained a significant amount of strength. He hasn't been playing, but, what if he finally has his symptoms under control? What if the complications are behind him, or at least mostly behind him? What if he rebounds?

Franklin Gutierrez is 28 years old. This ought to be his prime. As an Indian, he posted a .717 OPS. As a Mariner in 2009, he posted a .764 OPS and was an all-around star. On June 6, 2010, his OPS stood at .805. Symptoms showed up, and his performance declined. The rest of the way in 2010, he posted a .585 OPS. Last season was last season.

Franklin Gutierrez has been bad for a while. It seems like there's an easy explanation for that, though, and it wasn't that long ago that the Mariners saw fit to sign him to a four-year contract. Granted, Gutierrez signed a four-year contract in the same offseason that Figgins signed a four-year contract, but again, we think we have an easy explanation for what happened to Gutierrez. We don't have an easy explanation for what happened to Figgins. ("He got a lot worse.") Now we have word that Gutierrez is feeling an awful lot better.

Who can help but hope? I have a lot of faith in some parts of the medical industry and less faith in others, but it isn't out of the realm of possibility that Gutierrez has figured out a way to manage his body. And thus it isn't out of the realm of possibility that Gutierrez could return to being more or less what he was. What he was was awesome. He wasn't a superstar bat, and he never had the ability of a superstar bat, but he was a good bat with great defense. He was a great player.

People aren't really counting on Franklin Gutierrez going forward. I can't blame them. I'm not counting on him, either. We've seen him be a lousy player for a while. There's that chance, though. What seems like a much better chance than Figgins has. Franklin Gutierrez has added 19 pounds. He's feeling strong. What if he maintains his weight? What if he maintains his strength? What if? Is this really so outlandish?

Maybe it is. I don't know. Even Franklin Gutierrez probably doesn't know, and can't know, yet. But we'll see. That old Guti might still be in there. That old Guti might be ready to emerge.

Comment 89 comments  |  5 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

More from Lookout Landing

Today It's Officially Spring

Feb 2012 by Jeff Sullivan - 83 comments

Nautical Twilight

Jan 2012 by Jeff Sullivan - 113 comments

Around SB Nation

Fantasy Future: AL East

Jun 2011 from Fake Teams - 17 comments

Fake Teams Hits the Fantasy Links

Jul 2011 from Fake Teams - 5 comments

Franklin Gutierrez

Jul 2011 from Lone Star Ball - 21 comments

Comments

Display:

Watching what is done with Guti will be one of the more interesting storylines this spring and summer

Is he platooned to reserve his strength and hedge against relapse? Or is it full speed ahead?

One possible inference from some of Wedge’s commentary last season is that Wedge has a “c’mon, man up and play through it” attitude when it comes to Guti and Guti’s IBS. (I know ascribing motive is a no-no here, so I’m not casting aspersions or basing a strong opinion on this when I say this.)

Will Guti possibly be run into the ground at CF when he should be platooned heavily with e.g. Casper Wells to get the most out of him? Or even the opposite problem – Wells takes more playing time than he should, and Guti isn’t able to get into a rhythm even though he’s physically fine?

by Chris_FB on Jan 19, 2012 12:13 PM PST reply actions  

Old Guti back, along with Smoak/Ackley/Montero

and to a lesser extent: Carp (assuming he continues to hit), and an improved Seager could be a decent lineup. Heck, Ichiro, even declining, should provide good hitting, if not for power.

Always up for some Twitter action @nandron. I only talk NW sports, though.

by Nick Andron on Jan 19, 2012 12:17 PM PST reply actions  

I know this isn't the point of the post,

but the RBI Club stand for “Real Baseball Involvement.” It’s one of the Mariners community service-oriented clubs. They have limited membership and hold monthly luncheons that feature guest speakers. They are often Jack Z, players, and other prominent baseball people. I’ve been to 2 (Jack Z. and Joe Castiglione were the speakers) and the Q and A sessions are pretty cool.

by truemsfan on Jan 19, 2012 12:17 PM PST reply actions   3 recs

This team is starting to make me think of the high ceiling, low floor 2010 roster again

Smoak could be healthy and good, or he could just suck
Guti could be healthy and good, or he could just suck
Montero could rake and catch, or he could hit like a Mariner and play DH
Carp could hit for power AND walk more while rotating between 1B, RF, LF, and DH or he could suck
Ackley could be as good as he was last year for the full season or he could come down to earth
Felix is Felix
etc.

It seems like all up and down the roster there are fairly major question marks around most players, more so than in just about any other year I can remember. It means that I don’t think there is an outcome this year that would truly surprise me.

by CMC_Stags on Jan 19, 2012 12:22 PM PST reply actions   2 recs

Discounting "the best shape of his life" comments is normal

But when a steep decline is tied closely to losing 25 pounds, it’s a welcome sign that he’s gained most of that weight back. Unless he got fat.

by TripleAvery on Jan 19, 2012 12:22 PM PST reply actions  

I thought I read a blurb saying it was muscle mass that he gained back.

Can’t find the reference, but it was not too long ago.

Go Fo Broke!

by eknpdx on Jan 19, 2012 12:27 PM PST up reply actions  

If you pencil him in...

… at 5.4 WAR (his 2009 number), that changes a lot of things for the team all by itself, both defensively (because it means he’s played a lot of innings) and offensively (he’s not Figgins!). i hope his gastro issues are solved, and that this is the “on” switch that gets him back to where he was.

by flightrisk on Jan 19, 2012 12:26 PM PST reply actions  

Pencilling him in for 5.4 WAR is kind of crazy.

I’d be thrilled to get 3 WAR.

by mebpenguin on Jan 19, 2012 12:31 PM PST via iPhone app up reply actions   1 recs

And if he can get Fielderesque...

… his WAR won’t be measurable by our feeble instrumentation. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not predicting 5 WAR, but it’s not like he has to hit THAT much to be really valuable. His value in 2009 was pretty equally divided between fielding and hitting. I’d say that if he’s playing at a 3 WAR/600 PAs rate in 2012, he won’t get that many appearances because his hitting is so feeble.

by flightrisk on Jan 19, 2012 12:38 PM PST up reply actions  

I'd be happy with +10 runs from defense and league average offense.

That would get him to just over 3 WAR over 600 PAs and make me very happy.

by mebpenguin on Jan 19, 2012 12:42 PM PST up reply actions  

Agreed.

Defensively he was fine last season. As long as he holds that and his power comes back,at least a bit of it anyways, he could feasibly be a 4+ WAR player in 2012. I’m not going to stretch it to 5 WAR quite yet, though it is possible.

by ToddK on Jan 19, 2012 12:44 PM PST up reply actions  

Seems a lot more promising when a player is in recovery, rather than just a player who improved from his average.

If Guti was less than his normal self in 2011, as we can safely assume that he was, then all you’re really expecting or hoping for is for him to be back to his normal self. Which is a lot more encouraging than if, say, Brendan Ryan put on 19 lbs.

follow @casetines

by Kenneth Arthur on Jan 19, 2012 12:29 PM PST reply actions  

I'm hopeful.

I’ve been disappointed far too many times by the “best shape of my life” stories, that I no longer put any stock in them. But this seems much more like when Bobby Engram was diagnosed with Graves’ disease which caused thyroid problems that caused him to lose weight and feel fatigued. Once they got it under control with medication, he followed with the best year of his entire career.

I’m not going to put heavy expectations on Guti this year, but this is one of the few times that I’m actually going to allow myself to feel hopeful, and I will not be shocked if I’m rewarded with a bounce back year from him.

by Mind of no mind on Jan 19, 2012 12:30 PM PST reply actions  

Anecdotally it seemed like he got his timing back towards the end of last year

The power was still nowhere to be found, but he just looked better. Hit .295 in August, compared to .190 in July and .174 in June. I’m also optimistic that with some off-season training we can get old Guti back. Anything close to his 2009 production is pretty stellar when paired with his glove.

by _Hutch_ on Jan 19, 2012 12:47 PM PST reply actions  

The numbers seem to indicate he was hitting the ball harder in August even without any dingers.

Went from 4 doubles over the previous two months to 12 in August and a corresponding 150 point jump in his slugging percentage. BABIP in August was probably a little unsustainably high but I think at the very least I think that month supports the idea that the old Guti is still in there.

by wetzelcoal on Jan 19, 2012 1:08 PM PST up reply actions  

If Guti can put up 2+ WAR this season, I'll be ecstatic.

If he even approaches his 2009 season with 4+ WAR, I’ll consider him a Mariner god.

"Perhaps the worst comment I've ever seen on LL." - sanford_and_son.

by Ride the Apocalypse on Jan 19, 2012 12:58 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

Am I the only one who feels like so many things have gone wrong for so long that SOMEthing has to go right sooner or later?

Yah, it’s a lot of “what ifs” — but what if things actually came together this year? How fun would it be to hang with the Angels and Rangers this year? That could be even more exciting than having a team that is “supposed” to win.

We have a lot of “what ifs” this year, but they’re more exciting than they’ve been in recent years.

by Kyleo84 on Jan 19, 2012 12:59 PM PST reply actions  

He already has mine.

It’s so irrational, but every time he got up last season I had to stop what I was doing and watch the at bat. Just think of the possible dingers!

by Cascadian Man on Jan 19, 2012 2:37 PM PST up reply actions  

I know Bender hates him, but I'm okay with the occasional Peguero start.

Even when he succeeds, it’s still stupid, and sometimes I just need to see that.

by JY on Jan 19, 2012 5:27 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

He's really really bad at everything, sets a bad example for any human being trying to learn anything about sports,

and worst of all, demonstrates that the organization doesn’t recognize that he’s truly bad or doesn’t care*.

*Or that they are desperate, and that’s not good either.

by abender20 on Jan 19, 2012 6:24 PM PST up reply actions  

I go to sports for entertainment more than learning.

And I think that it’s the latter, desperation. There was nothing good coming up in the era that Peguero was on the rise through the system. We needed someone out there.

by JY on Jan 19, 2012 6:36 PM PST up reply actions  

This is a shitty analogy that someone's going to poke holes in, but it's what I can come up with at the moment:

Watching Carlos Peguero try to play major league baseball is like watching the world’s fastest donkey get entered into the Kentucky Derby as filler because all the available horses were incapacitated. Sure, it violates the sanctity of the event, but once you get past the fact that it’s a competitive joke, it can still be entertaining every now and then.

by JY on Jan 19, 2012 7:01 PM PST up reply actions  

It's because he made a pact with the Satan.

It was for the most power in the big leagues. But he didn’t read the fine print and got screwed out of plate discipline and contact skill. Still, the devil let him fluke his way to success against the Angels, just because he doesn’t like their heavenly name.

"Perhaps the worst comment I've ever seen on LL." - sanford_and_son.

by Ride the Apocalypse on Jan 19, 2012 5:32 PM PST up reply actions  

I had Wlad Balentien.

Then we gave him to the Reds for nothing. Then he went to Japan and became awesome. I miss him :(

by JY on Jan 19, 2012 3:40 PM PST up reply actions  

My terrible player that I loved as a Mariner was Ronny Cedeno

So bad with the bat, but so not Yuni with the glove, which somehow made him seem amazing. Also, the occasional dingers were fun too.

"Perhaps the worst comment I've ever seen on LL." - sanford_and_son.

by Ride the Apocalypse on Jan 19, 2012 5:29 PM PST up reply actions  

And Goddamnit, Jeff. Now you've given me hope!

I was all ready to be clinical and dispassionate this season, but NnooooOOooo you had to go and ruin it like that!

by NWade on Jan 19, 2012 2:17 PM PST reply actions  

That's great news

At least he’s got it under control enough to be able to put on weight. I’ve heard about a potential treatment coming down the pipe for it, though it’s still a little ways off.

by OlSalty on Jan 20, 2012 12:10 AM PST reply actions  

The most relevant part of that message is that he's putting on weight.

If he’s gaining weight, then his digestive problems must not be bothering him as much (or he’s just mainlining milkshakes, but that seems unlikely). That’s terrific news.

by Llewdor on Jan 20, 2012 9:49 AM PST reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

By reading a game thread of your own volition you agree to accept all liability for any and all damage done to your delicate sensibilities.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recent FanPosts

Small
Starlin Castro's fit with Seattle
Kawasaki80_small
Lists! So many lists!
M_s_hat_copy_small
OT -- May 22nd In Memoriam
Ichiro_small
Why do managers and media members hate walks?
Wbc_029_small
Friday Morning Music Thread
Small
Dustin Ackley BP swing vs game swing
Beastquakerwallpaper_small
More on the Struggles of Smoak
Randy2_for_sbn_small
Albert Pujols 2012: Three Retrospectives
Small
On Batting Orders
Niehaus_small
More on Dustin Ackley and the strikezone

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

Yahoo_full_count

Sexy People

Wbc_029_small Jeff Sullivan

Small Matthew

Claw_small JY