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Around SBN: Win or Lose, Boston Celtics' New Big 3 Era A Success

Randy Johnson, Dan Wilson To Join Mariners Hall Of Fame

I like individual team halls of fame. They're significant enough to confer a high honor, but insignificant enough to avoid all the bickering and heated debate that surrounds their...dad? Mothership? If a player is inducted into a team hall of fame, it is neat. If a player is not inducted into a team hall of fame, it's really just not that important.

The Seattle Mariners Hall of Fame, at present, has four members. There's Alvin Davis, who was known as "Mr. Mariner" when "Mr. Mariner" was a devastating insult. There's Jay Buhner, who resides in the catacombs beneath Safeco Field and emerges when he senses a tremor in the floor. There's Dave Niehaus, who never played a single inning for the team. And there's Edgar Martinez, who was and is awesome in every way.

The Seattle Mariners Hall of Fame will soon have a fifth and sixth member. According to Greg Johns and countless other people, Randy Johnson and Dan Wilson will be inducted on Saturday, July 28th. Randy Johnson and Dan Wilson are basically members of the Seattle Mariners Hall of Fame now, but they'll become official members in six months. Think of this like a trade, pending a six-month physical. A physical that neither Johnson nor Wilson can fail unless we become aware of gambling allegations. Not that I'm saying there will be gambling allegations. Hands off this passage, Bleacher Report.

Randy Johnson was a Mariner from 1989 to 1998. Over that span he posted a 128 ERA+, but that includes the early part when he was still developing. In Randy Johnson's first year with the Mariners, he had 104 strikeouts and 70 walks in 131 innings. In Randy Johnson's last year with the Mariners, he had 213 strikeouts and 60 walks in 160 innings. Randy Johnson got a lot better. He went from terrifying to terrifying and dominant. Johnson has the most strikeouts in Mariners franchise history, and for a long time one of my favorite facts was that Jamie Moyer sat in second. Jamie Moyer now sits in third. Damn (bless) you, Felix. Moyer could always return in an attempt to re-claim his position!

So, Johnson is an obvious fit. A player doesn't get much more beloved than Randy Johnson. Dan Wilson is also an obvious fit, albeit for different reasons. Wilson was a Mariner from 1994 to 2005. Following are the main ways that I remember Dan Wilson:

(1) He was a Mariner for a while.

(2) He dropped down a lot of sac bunts, or at least an amount of sac bunts that one baseball card company thought was a lot one time.

(3) He used to be a hockey goalie.

(4) He was and is so darn nice.

(5) My mom thought he was the cutest Mariners player in 1999 or 2000. He doesn't seem to have aged a day. In our limited interaction I have refrained from letting him know that my mom thinks he's cute.

(6) He wasn't a good hitter or an awful hitter.

(7) He walked off the field in 2005 with what turned out to be an ACL tear that in a way ended his career.

Strictly based on statistics, Dan Wilson probably doesn't belong in a team hall of fame. But team halls of fame aren't strictly based on statistics, and the fact of the matter is that, when you think about the good Mariners teams, you usually end up thinking about Dan Wilson at some point. He was there, and he was popular, and now he's being honored, and nobody is upset about that. Team halls of fame have it figured out.

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Yeah.

Randy is still my mom’s favorite Mariner, despite the fact that he hasn’t played for them almost a decade and a half.

by quacker27 on Jan 17, 2012 1:23 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah

It may be true now that “A player doesn’t get much more beloved than Randy Johnson” but that wasn’t the case all that long ago, as DMZ pointed out in a couple of ways.

by J0SER on Jan 17, 2012 2:12 PM PST up reply actions  

I will most remember Dan Wilson for one thing...

Catching the final strike of the 1995 playoff game and jumping up in the air with both hands raised in the air, as Randy beat and chest and thanked his recently departed father.

To have them enter together seems appropriate. Almost to say that we recognize Randy’s greatness, as well as the value that we place on Dan Wilson’s character and leadership, even if we can’t measure it.

by Henry Valz on Jan 17, 2012 1:13 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

Some other cool facts about that game...

That was Spike Owen’s last game in the majors. He was playing for the Angels.

Randy threw a complete game 3 hitter.

Dan Wilson had the first RBI of the game, and finished with 3 RBI.

by Henry Valz on Jan 17, 2012 1:23 PM PST up reply actions  

I saw one of them!

At least, I remember sitting in the third deck in the Kingdome behind 3rd base and see it.

But my memory isn’t as good as it once was.

by Paul AB on Jan 17, 2012 2:08 PM PST up reply actions  

I was at that game.

That’s my favorite in person sports moment.

by cdalto on Jan 17, 2012 1:38 PM PST up reply actions  

Hahahaha me too!

Just laughing at that (Tiger?) laying in CF, watching the ball chill at the fence behind him…priceless!

by Sounders4life on Jan 17, 2012 1:41 PM PST up reply actions  

I was there too

I loved Dave’s call of the hit because he got the mustard and rye bread out and then had to put it away and then had to rush to get it back in at the end…

by TheZzyzx on Jan 17, 2012 5:54 PM PST up reply actions  

It is interesting, watching the players of my youth who basically passed into myth and legend while still playing, finally officially ascend to the Mariner's Pantheon.

Now, who will be Homer and write the Mariner’s Odyssey? I feel some official doctrinal writing is needed to catalog their deeds.

by quacker27 on Jan 17, 2012 1:21 PM PST reply actions  

No need for that.

It is written in the words of Niehaus.

“IT JUST CONTINUES!”

by Henry Valz on Jan 17, 2012 1:25 PM PST up reply actions  

Doesn't Dan Wilson hold some sort of "best" passed ball percentage record?

Can’t remember exactly, but I remember at his retirement night ceremony, they mentioned something about him having the best percentage in the history of baseball of something that had to do with catcher’s defense.

Given he had just 42 passed balls in 14 seasons and about 10K innings, that might have been it.

Anyways, obscure record seems to fit for an obscure every day player (outside of Seattle).

by TIFO on Jan 17, 2012 1:27 PM PST reply actions  

Dan always seemed to be at the very least average defensively to me

Of course compared to the non-Johjima players that have crouched behind the dish since, he was positively god-like.

by Kingdomer on Jan 17, 2012 1:43 PM PST up reply actions  

The dude had to catch for Randy for years.

If nothing else, it seems like you would twitch just a little bit every time a ball came towards you.

by Henry Valz on Jan 17, 2012 1:49 PM PST up reply actions  

That seems insane....

Was a team trying to bunt on every single play?

by Henry Valz on Jan 17, 2012 1:34 PM PST up reply actions  

Strikeouts count as putouts for catchers.

That Aug. 8 game was one where Johnson struck out nineteen players.

by Coach Owens on Jan 17, 2012 1:41 PM PST up reply actions  

Riding Randy's coattails then

Riding them now into the team HoF.
(I keed, I keed)

by J0SER on Jan 17, 2012 2:17 PM PST up reply actions  

haha these fun facts are all over the map

Dan had the highest fielding % of any C of the 90’s
-When Dan was 6 he led his tee ball team with a 1.700 OPS
-Dan got an A
in highschool Chemistry
-On June 7 1998 Dan went 3-4
-In 1986 Dan was voted the greatest athlete in the history of Barrington
-Dan thought the ending of Lost was pretty lame

by C Dubya on Jan 17, 2012 3:45 PM PST up reply actions  

and it would appear as though

I’ve stumbled across a method to jerry-rig a strikethrough font (albeit randomly)

by C Dubya on Jan 17, 2012 3:51 PM PST up reply actions  

The "preview" button is your friend

Also that little “show formatting guide” link in the reply box at the bottom of the page (but not in the reply box you get when replying to another comment — I guess expanding things in the middle of the page is problematic for some reason, though the guide might be more useful as a separate floating window anyway)

by J0SER on Jan 17, 2012 6:13 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

you know

that information might have been a little more useful to me yesterday

Egad, it works! Thanks for the heads up chum

by C Dubya on Jan 17, 2012 6:42 PM PST up reply actions  

This I could see

But I wasn’t aware I could alter the font using hyphens, asterisks, etc. Still pretty new to LL so I’m learning the ropes (for instance don’t refer to Montero as J-Mo). In the meantime pay no mind to my boobery. Thank goodness for relative anonymity!

by C Dubya on Jan 19, 2012 9:09 AM PST up reply actions  

Felix.

"You are the molders of their dreams." - Clark Mollenhoff

by EequalsMc2 on Jan 17, 2012 3:27 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Prove it.

In a few years, Felix is capable of doing what the Unit did in his prime (and more).

"You are the molders of their dreams." - Clark Mollenhoff

by EequalsMc2 on Jan 17, 2012 3:31 PM PST up reply actions  

So you think Felix can have 13.4 K/9 and 2.6 BB/9 with 250 IP (10.7 WAR)?

Randy Johnson lives in a world populated with Mickey Mantle and Albert Pujols. Felix is an amazing pitcher but he won’t fall into the list of pitcher that will be “best pitcher ever” category.

Plus let me know when Felix grows a mullet, makes John Kruk piss his pants and explodes a dove.

Randy Johnson was the most dominant LHP ever to play the game. His career spanned 20 years and he had a peak where he was absolutely dominant of over 10 years.

by Edgar for Pres on Jan 17, 2012 3:42 PM PST up reply actions   7 recs

To be fair, when Randy Johnson was at the same age as Felix is now, he had only pitched his Montreal career.

Which was 10 starts and 55.2 innings. Not saying that Felix is quite the dominant pitcher that Randy was at his peak, but if Randy improved from 25 and on, why am I going to start doubting Felix?

He already is in a “best pitcher ever” category for pitchers accomplishing what he has before he was 25.

follow @casetines

by Kenneth Arthur on Jan 17, 2012 3:47 PM PST up reply actions   4 recs

I know what you are saying. Felix is amazing.

I don’t think it takes anything away from Felix when I say that Randy Johnson was better than him.

by Edgar for Pres on Jan 17, 2012 4:07 PM PST up reply actions  

And I totally understand what you are saying, but you are confusing Felix with a pitcher who is almost done with his career.

Even if we would be hard-pressed to imagine Felix posting strikeout numbers like Randy, would we be crazy to think he could be better in a number of other ways? He’s 25.

I agree with you, yet disagree with your hard conclusion comparing a finished Hall of Fame career to a guy who is that young.

follow @casetines

by Kenneth Arthur on Jan 17, 2012 4:13 PM PST up reply actions  

And Randy was a Diamondback when he posted that line.

Which maybe doesn’t matter to your point. But my impression was more like best pitcher for the Mariners, in which case, Felix and Randy are very comparable already.

by Matthew on Jan 17, 2012 6:07 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Absolutely

In his prime, a Randy Johnson start an automatic W. I mean, it wasn’t really, but anytime Randy didn’t win it legitimately felt strange, like something had happened that shouldn’t have. Opposing teams knew they had a tall order (no pun intended) when #51 toed the rubber.

Felix still lays the (very) occasional egg. I’m sure we all remember that Toronto game last year? Yeah, that game started with Felix getting his ass kicked. Opposing teams still know it’s a tall order, but it’s a possibly doable one.

Some of that has to do with the quality of the teams, yes. Randy could pitch 8 innings and give up 3 runs, and be pretty sure of getting a win. If Felix pitches 8 innings and gives up 3 runs…boyidontknow.

But still, I take Randy any time.

by Aly Edge on Jan 17, 2012 4:05 PM PST up reply actions  

But we can argue Felix is not at his prime and he's still posting numbers comparable to Randy.

That’s why I put in “in a few years”

"You are the molders of their dreams." - Clark Mollenhoff

by EequalsMc2 on Jan 17, 2012 4:35 PM PST up reply actions  

A pitcher's prime is different than a hitter's' prime

Pitchers often start off at a certain velocity and decrease from there, while hitters often develop power as they age until about 27-28, and it begins to taper off around 32-33.

That’s not to say Felix couldn’t become a better pitcher as he ages – and he has the added benefit of entering only his age 26 season (!) – but in terms of ‘prime’, his raw stuff will likely not get better from here on out.

by cwel87 on Jan 17, 2012 6:04 PM PST up reply actions  

Velocity doesn't define a pitcher's "prime"

Virtually all the best pitchers have years better than their rookie year (by almost any measure you want to use). Felix has gotten better as he ages (and loses velocity, possibly in a conscious effort to harness his “stuff”). Likewise Randy Johnson didn’t become RANDY JOHNSON until ‘93, when he was 29 and had already been in the bigs for five seasons. He probably wasn’t throwing as hard then as he had with the Expos, but that hardly mattered: he was entering his “prime.”

by J0SER on Jan 17, 2012 6:38 PM PST up reply actions  

I never said it did

I was just outlining the notion that pitchers do not generally plateau at 28-32 and then decline, as hitters do. Pitchers follow no truly definable trend to determine when they will perform at their best, and it certainly isn’t because they hit a certain physical peak. It’s more a combination of knowledge and stuff, and with some pitchers, it works right off the bat (Gooden, Felix – although Gooden also fell apart earlier, but I think outside factors led to that more than any sort of physical deterioration) and with others, it takes time for them to put it all together (Johnson).

by cwel87 on Jan 17, 2012 7:56 PM PST up reply actions  

I was at Randy's last game in Seattle

He was in his last year with the Giants, clearly showing he was near the end of career. When he came into the game (and was warming up) he received a standing ovation, rightfully so. And when he got pulled from the game, he received an even longer (2-4 minutes) standing ovation, and he was clearly fairly emotional, and even tipped his cap to the crowd. Randy was a big ol mean pitcher who was a dirty Yankee. But he was a mean yankee we all loved dearly. Glad to see the team honor him.

by ichirofan5197 on Jan 17, 2012 4:35 PM PST reply actions  

I almost forgot Randy was a Yankee.

I think of him with us and the D-backs. In fact, the only thing I remember from his New York days is when he pushed that cameraman guy.

by sofa_king on Jan 17, 2012 6:09 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

That and him losing the mullet :'(

Aaron Curry is the first Seahawk since Walter Jones to have a legitimate shot at Hall of Fame induction - John Morgan

by Fearless Frog on Jan 17, 2012 6:47 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

I remember the New Yorker cover.

I can’t find an image of it online, so to describe it without doing it justice, it was a picture of Randy on the mound in pinstripes, standing tall, and the area above the shoulders was cut off by the edge of the frame.

by JY on Jan 17, 2012 9:00 PM PST up reply actions  

I was at that game!

He gave up something like one run over six innings and struck out a bunch, but the M’s still won.

by quacker27 on Jan 17, 2012 8:27 PM PST up reply actions  

I was there too!

We won in extra innings, game winning hit by Jose Lopez, haha.

by seiferguy on Jan 17, 2012 9:09 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

Gee, I guess I have to be literal

because believe it or not, I am familiar with baseball-reference.com

Literally, then…..

I have no recollection of a Mariners pitcher named Robert Ramsay. Isn’t that quaint? I have been following the team since my childhood and think I have a good memory, but I completely forgot someone who pitched 43 games for the team. Wow!

Yeah, I like the first phrasing better. Pithier.

by Aly Edge on Jan 17, 2012 11:33 PM PST up reply actions  

Forrest Snow was just on the Hot Stove League, and talking (being a local kid) about Dan Wilson

paraphrasing … Dan was down visiting the minors and according to Snow, he didn’t care if he won or lost his game because he knew that either way he was going to get a Dan Wilson Butt Pat.

by msb on Jan 17, 2012 8:40 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

Because it's the only picture of him they have

So for a while there when every story was about him (will they sign him? They might sign him. There are reports that they’ve signed him. Oh, they’ve signed him. Here are the terms under which he signed), that picture was really all they had to put in the articles.

Now it’s a running gag.

by Aly Edge on Jan 18, 2012 12:03 PM PST up reply actions  

I know.

The picture should be on every first article.

by Mariner John on Jan 18, 2012 12:23 PM PST up reply actions  

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