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Jesus Montero Considerations

Jesus Montero is just about officially a Seattle Mariner. Yay! Michael Pineda is just about officially a New York Yankee. Boo! But Jesus Montero is just about officially a Seattle Mariner. Yay! And Hector Noesi is just about officially a Seattle Mariner too. Okay!

What follows is a post about Jesus Montero. It is about a lot of things that have to do with Jesus Montero. Each individual thing is probably going to be short - I haven't exactly planned this out - but I don't feel like using bullet holes, nor do I feel like messing with transitions and segues. So what you get is this post. I hope you have fun sorting through it!

Jesus Montero is 22 years old. He's somewhat newly 22 years old, since he turned 22 at the end of November. He has spent two full seasons in triple-A. For the first one, he was 20. For the second one, he was 21. He has been exceptionally young for the league. This is something that you have to bear in mind when you look at his numbers. So an OPS in the mid-.800s isn't outstanding in triple-A. It's pretty outstanding for someone as young as Montero has been.

Remember that home run power can be one of the last things to develop in a hitter. It isn't always going to be one of the last things to develop in a hitter, since you can't apply the same general principle to a person in specific, but Montero already has a .204 isolated slugging percentage in triple-A, and now he's 22. When people talk about him being one of the best power prospects in the league, there's a reason for that. He has very good power already, and he's still maturing.

Montero has spent two years in triple-A with Scranton/Wilkes-Barre. Scranton/Wilkes-Barre calls home a pitcher-friendly park. It reduces righty power, and more significantly reduces lefty power, which could mean something for Montero given his penchant for driving the ball the other way.

Statistically, it's hard to find evidence that Montero improved as a hitter between 2010 and 2011. He walked less. He struck out more. He hit for less power. His contact rate dropped. He wasn't bad in 2011, but he was a little worse, which is the opposite of what you'd like to see. He did hit well during a brief trial in the Majors, which is encouraging.

Montero had a big second half in 2011, following a first-half slump. I'm given to believe that Montero also had a big second half in 2010, following a first-half slump. I don't know what this means. I don't know if it means anything.

This used to be Jesus Montero's stance:

Montero1_medium

Then this was Jesus Montero's stance:

Montero2_medium

Now this is Jesus Montero's stance:

Montero3_medium

Deep crouch. I can't tell you what this means with regard to Montero's productivity, if it means anything, because I am not a qualified analyst of batting stances and their statistical consequences. It is an indication that Montero is still developing, which I guess we already knew.

Opposite-field dingers:


As some or probably many people have talked about, while Montero's stock has been high in the past because of the chance he could catch, there's also the chance that his offense never develops fully while he's a backstop. There's a lot of evidence that catchers hit better when they're not catching. Again, that's a general rule, so we can't automatically slap it on the back of Montero's head, but it's something to think about. Maybe catching for three hours would wear him down. Maybe spending a lot of time trying to improve behind the plate would cost him time trying to improve beside it. Hitters get better because they practice, right? Montero spending more time practicing catching would leave him less time to practice hitting. Basically, Montero's offensive ceiling as a catcher probably isn't as high as his offensive ceiling as a not-catcher.

Here's this long post from Dave, on Montero catching vs. Montero not catching.

When Miguel Cabrera was 20, he posted a .244 isolated slugging percentage in triple-A and a .200 isolated slugging percentage in the Majors. When Miguel Cabrera was 21, he posted a .218 isolated slugging percentage in the Majors. His contact rate improved markedly between 2003-2004.

Dingers!

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Yeah he seriously went down and got that one.

His overall approach to power is really encouraging for long term success with the bat. Most young power hitters are coming up swinging out of their shoes trying to pull the ball, he’s more comfortable trying to shoot everything the other way. Yet he still has the bat speed to get in front of the ball inside and pull it down the line.

"I'm a little worried about being a slut"
~ Bobby Hill

by Chris Hines on Jan 16, 2012 1:31 PM PST up reply actions  

The only part of his offense game I ever worried about was the lack of walks.

He never posted the kind of OBP numbers I wanted and he struck out a little more with each level he advanced. Nothing alarming but I never thought the Cabrera comparison fit because of the lack of walks. I don’t see him ever posting .400+ OBP’s like Miguel or Edgar Martinez. He’s more Cano than Cabrera.

"I'm a little worried about being a slut"
~ Bobby Hill

by Chris Hines on Jan 16, 2012 1:54 PM PST up reply actions  

I would say more like Ryan Braun than Cano

Cano is more of a contact hitter with a low strikeout rate who doesn’t hit for a ton of power. Considering that Braun was older (than Montero) in the minor leagues and power is the last thing to really develop, I’d say Montero profiles pretty similarly to Braun. (And if we’re including left-handed hitters, guys like Justin Morneau and Josh Hamilton have high averages and good power without walking a ton.)

by ubelmann on Jan 16, 2012 2:35 PM PST up reply actions  

That's not a bad comparison but I wouldn't say Cano doesn't hit for a ton of power

He’s hit 29 and 28 HRs in back to back seasons and anyone who has watched him over a full season knows he clearly has the ability to hit 30 dingers. I did say he’s more Cano than he is Cabrera, I just Miguel Cabrera is a little too lofty.

The way I’ve put it other places is he’s more like a Cano with slightly more power and a higher strikeout rate. But the walks are similar and both swing early and often and make good contact. It’s not a perfect example but then again I don’t think there are a ton of great comparisons for Montero.

I don’t think a .400 OBP is in Montero’s future and I don’t believe he will ever hit 40 HRs. If anything from a pure numbers standpoint his best comparison is Carlos Lee, though he goes about his hitting in a much different way than Lee since Lee is almost a complete dead pull hitter.

"I'm a little worried about being a slut"
~ Bobby Hill

by Chris Hines on Jan 16, 2012 2:50 PM PST up reply actions  

Montero's batting stance and front foot hitting always reminded me of Frank Thomas

I don’t think he much projects like the Big Hurt, but they do look somewhat similar when in the box.

In regard to Montero’s 2010 second half it’s true, he had a huge second half after what many considered an extremely poor first half. The reports at the time were around the All-Star break Brian Cashman and other members of the Yankee front office personally went to Scranton and “read him the riot act”, which coincidentally or not almost immediately ignited a hot streak where he was one of the best players in all of AAA from that point on. I never really fully understood what that meant, but it’s something to add to the conversation.

He had another poor first half this past year, only this one was even worse. Most reports, even from his coaches being quoted in the paper, were that he was bored being in AAA and he needed a call up. The Yankees however left in Scranton and again right around the All-Star break he lit up like a Christmas tree.

I don’t know if he is just a slow starter and heats up as the year goes along, or if he was losing focus to start the season and really kicked it in gear towards the end to get a call up, or if he was working so hard on defense it cause his offense to drag. But that is the story as I know it.

"I'm a little worried about being a slut"
~ Bobby Hill

by Chris Hines on Jan 16, 2012 1:28 PM PST reply actions  

I never really dug that excuse either but everyone seemed to make it for him

I did kind of think if he was so bored why wouldn’t you try as hard as possible to play well and get called up, but I don’t think it’s a huge deal. He’s a young, talented kid, with some attitude problems. That’s not that uncommon, as long as he matures as he gets older he should be fine.

"I'm a little worried about being a slut"
~ Bobby Hill

by Chris Hines on Jan 16, 2012 1:49 PM PST up reply actions  

As I said above in 2010 Cashman and other members had to go to Scranton during the All-Star break

It was reported that they “read him the riot act” regarding his poor play and what surrounded it. We never got any specifics of why the trip was necessary, just that it happened. He then caught fire with the bat almost immediately after a half a season of mediocrity.

Then again this year during the first half of the season he was benched for like a 4-5 game period with no real explanation. Rumors were it was because he was pouting and not happy with the fact that he had yet to be called up so they say him to make him re-focus.

Nothing huge just things we followed.

"I'm a little worried about being a slut"
~ Bobby Hill

by Chris Hines on Jan 16, 2012 2:03 PM PST up reply actions  

If he IS a DH, where does that leave Carp?

That’s been my biggest question throughout this whole saga (of 3-ish days). Can Carp move to the outfield? I thought that was met with less than promising results last year?

by no2cyclones on Jan 16, 2012 1:38 PM PST reply actions  

Wedge said at the winter meetings he saw Carp as the everyday left fielder

So I suppose Wells is the 4th outfielder and steals playing time from Carp and Guti, Guti mostly unless his tummy issues are really gone.

by Chris_FB on Jan 16, 2012 3:54 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

What I took from that video is that:

1. Montero must be a very strong man.

2. It’s no wonder the Yankees have so much more money then everyone else; the entire outfield wall (at least what was visible) is covered with an advertisement, which it seems to me far more than are at Safeco.

by quacker27 on Jan 16, 2012 1:41 PM PST reply actions  

A quick, unscientific survey of ball parks shows the following:

1. Safeco appears to have a lot more area of out field wall than does New Yankee Stadium, do to the Yankee’s having some sort of bullpin cutouts as well as two scoreboards in theirs.

2. New Yankee Stadium, and many other stadiums, have display screens that kick the one at Safeco’s metaphorical ass; Safeco was clearly built right before giant, high def video screens became cost effective.

3. I am sure no one else really cares about all of this.

by quacker27 on Jan 16, 2012 2:00 PM PST up reply actions  

This may be me being a cranky old person but I am pretty happy with the one they have

My most recent in-person comparison is Great American in Cincinnati, and oh my god that place just about gave me an epileptic seizure. Massive, and I mean MASSIVE, video board in left field, two big video boards in the outfield wall, ribbon boards everywhere….it’s horrifying.

by pdb on Jan 16, 2012 3:22 PM PST up reply actions  

I think the Mariners are seeking to make that ENTIRE BOARD in CF another LED screen.

The thing the Mariners have done well is to keep with a sort of old-timey baseball aesthetic. The new out-of-town scoreboard in left is set to look like an old hand-operated board, which is a really good design choice. Because of that, I think they would do a good job with redesigning graphics for the big screen in center.

by Two Rs and Two Ls on Jan 16, 2012 4:14 PM PST up reply actions  

The Royals (relatively) new outfield screen is amazing.

It puts Safeco to shame, but then again, as pointed out, Safeco was built before giant high def screens became the rage.

by KC Mariner on Jan 16, 2012 5:03 PM PST up reply actions  

This is a misnomer

They will not be ready to play for 2 and a half more months. For now, the Mariners are ready to sleep in, walk the dog, and play some Madden.

by HititHere on Jan 16, 2012 3:46 PM PST up reply actions  

Is there any way they make a defensive platoon for Montero?

DH with our more diabolical pitchers (Felix) and throw him behind the dish with our Twins-ier pitchers. (Noesi? Beaven?)

Having him catch a couple of the easier guys out of the rotation could help mitigate the ding in his value from DHing the rest of the year, and he wouldn’t have to embarrass himself trying to catch a King Felix power curve?

by SgtSasquatch on Jan 16, 2012 2:12 PM PST reply actions  

Watching those videos of Montero's dingers is something to behold

The ball just explodes off the bat and it will be a real treat to watch this guy hit every day.

"Tell my tale to those who ask. Tell it truly, the ill deeds along with the good and let me be judged accordingly. The rest is silence." ~ Dinobot

by beastwarking on Jan 16, 2012 3:12 PM PST reply actions  

Slow starter?

If true, that is worrisome. This fan base will have a conniption fit if J-Mon putters his way into June. Especially since every move Pineda makes will be crammed down our throat ad nauseum from here on out.

by C Dubya on Jan 16, 2012 3:43 PM PST reply actions  

Maybe Im just an idiot

but is it really worse than then inevitable Mony or Monty moniker?

by C Dubya on Jan 16, 2012 4:09 PM PST up reply actions  

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