Help out a scientific study on subtle racism in baseball commentary

by ManifestDestiny on Aug 1, 2011 8:52 AM PDT

Grit. Hustle. Heart. Scrap. These are all words that baseball commentators use to describe certain players and they way they play the game. However, some informal studies so far have shown that these words may in fact be racially coded (see every word written about David Eckstein). In the last couple years, Seth over at Dingersblog.com has done an informal study and recording of the usage of these and other code words (results can be found here, here and here).

However, now they are looking to take it to the next level and make it a little more scientific by hiring 30 people to watch 30 games each and record usages of different code words during broadcasts. Because this is an intense project, they are looking for help with funding. Click here to go to the funding page and a video describing the project in more detail (and probably more clearly) than I have here. Any little bit you can give would be appreciated.

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Looks interesting

I suppose the whole “Ichiro is selfish and only cares about himself/doesn’t dive” crowd could fit into this category as well.

my website

by Ballard Erik on Aug 1, 2011 9:21 AM PDT reply actions

See I always thought those terms were used for unathletic crowed who showed Rudy like determination.

Fuck the Angels

by InSpokane on Aug 1, 2011 10:59 AM PDT reply actions

Love this. Its a very interesting case.

I’ve noticed a ton of racial profiling in prospect comps, as a black prospect’s top comp is almost always a black baseball player, as goes with Latin baseball prospects too.

by MilesC on Aug 1, 2011 3:32 PM PDT reply actions

This is true in basketbal as well

Although (ahem) some are too quick to jump to “you’re only comping them because they’re the same race” accusations as well.

Lots of nuance in any racial discussion.

by dnc on Aug 1, 2011 5:16 PM PDT up reply actions

And football too.

Any white version of the “slow but reliabe” receiver is almost always compared to Wes Welker.

by Coach Owens on Aug 1, 2011 6:20 PM PDT up reply actions

And before that, Wayne Crebet

Welker actually isn’t that slow, though. He’s more quick than fast, but plenty quick. But I understand that wasn’t really your point.

by dnc on Aug 1, 2011 6:26 PM PDT up reply actions

Did you just describe Wes Welker as quick but not fast?

You’re a fucking racist!

by Wilder. on Aug 2, 2011 9:19 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs

More quick than fast is not the same as not fast

And yes I know you were being sarcastic

by dnc on Aug 2, 2011 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions

.

Deceptive speed!

by ThomasG on Aug 2, 2011 9:25 AM PDT up reply actions

This reminds me of how MMA commentators routinely call black fighters "explosive"

but almost never say that about white fighters.

I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.

by Llewdor on Aug 2, 2011 9:42 AM PDT reply actions

Grievance mongering

by wobatus on Aug 3, 2011 4:33 PM PDT reply actions

Too harsh

but it’s possible the search for ever-more rarefied units of racism does more harm than good. Not that these are so rarefied. This has been written about or discussed many times over the years. One type of player making it through guile, determination (grit, heart, hustle) or smarts (coach on the floor), another through natural talent, physical-skill. And certainly it seems the preponderance of the ones that get the “he is not the strongest or fastest guy but he plays the game right” treatment from the MSM are paler. I’d imagine in the pre-Jackie Robinson days you’d get that about equally distributed among white players. Maybe it was “Rogers Hornsby, he’s naturally gifted, Pepper Martin, he’s all guts and hustle, I’d rather have a team of Pepper Martins” etc.

by wobatus on Aug 4, 2011 2:11 AM PDT up reply actions

BTW

for pitchers it may be different. Plenty of white pitchers are called naturally-gifted, great stuff, but a thrower, not a pitcher, or a head case (A.J. Burnett, for example), while Darren Oliver “couldn’t break a pane of glass,” but he is a pitcher, moves it in and out, guile, deception, smart pitcher. That type of thing.

An old boxing trope is that blacks are less susceptible to bleeding. That always struck me as highly unlikely. There are certainly some studies about athleticism among races, although they are more apt to be denounced than encouraged. Al Campanis, a Dodger executive, once made a remark about blacks not being as capable swimmers. That caused quite a stir.

by wobatus on Aug 4, 2011 2:22 AM PDT up reply actions

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Campanis

Campanis made his remarks on Nightline in 1987. Not sure how many of you have heard about this incident. It was considered fairly shocking, mostly because even though he was 70 you’d think he wouldn’t espouse these views, not that an old time baseball executive would not have them.

by wobatus on Aug 4, 2011 2:34 AM PDT up reply actions

It's a pretty legendary moment

I’d imagine there are many here who are aware of it, even those who like me were just small children when it happened

by dnc on Aug 4, 2011 6:28 AM PDT up reply actions

Jimmy the Greek is the guy I remember, 1988 he was fired after this statement

“The black is a better athlete to begin with because he’s been bred to be that way, because of his high thighs and big thighs that goes up into his back, and they can jump higher and run faster…”

. There was quite a bit more. I can’t link his wiki page on this iPad

by Kermit. on Aug 4, 2011 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions

The Jimmy the Greek interview is on YouTube.

I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.

by Llewdor on Aug 5, 2011 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions

Wasn't sure how legendary

it was. I had already graduated from college when it happened and remember seeing clips of it at the time and I imagined most here were too young to know of it first hand, but I guess it is fairly well-known. I was born the year the Civil Rights Act passed, and grew up in an unsegregated society, at least de jure if not de facto, was bused to school, etc. But my sisters are old enough to recall segregated drinking fountains, public facilities etc from when we went south to visit relatives. In 1987 things don’t seem to much different from today, 24 years later (or from what they had been during my entire life through that time), as far as the law and general societal attitudes on race relations, but 24 years prior to 1987 segregation was still legal and the law of much of the land. The change from say 1963 to 1987 was pretty drastic, but Al Campanis was born in 1916 or so, and was from a different era altogether.

by wobatus on Aug 10, 2011 8:38 AM PDT up reply actions