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Around SBN: Win or Lose, Boston Celtics' New Big 3 Era A Success

Erik Bedard (And Josh Fields) Traded; Trayvon Robinson, Chih-Hsien Chiang Received

It was so obvious. The Red Sox needed a starter, and Erik Bedard was right there in front of them. The Saturday trade for Rich Harden shifted Bedard out of the picture, but the unsatisfactory review of Harden's medicals shifted Bedard back in, and the fact that the Red Sox were willing to go for Harden in the first place showed that they wouldn't be scared off by Bedard's history. They were looking to make a high-upside gamble, and on Sunday afternoon, right up against the deadline, they rolled the dice.

Erik Bedard is leaving for Boston. Josh Fields is leaving, too. The Mariners are receiving outfield prospects Trayvon Robinson and Chih-Hsien Chiang. This looks to be an excellent trade for the M's for reasons I'll get into later on, but first things first: Bedard.

There is too much to say about Bedard to condense into one long post, much less a few paragraphs. And we don't necessarily need to be bidding him farewell anyway, since he's a free agent in a few months and obviously likes pitching in Seattle. Chances are, though, we've seen the last of him as a Mariner. Next year's rotation doesn't have a lot of room, and if Bedard continues pitching well he could end up out of the Mariners' price range anyway.

Here's what Bedard did over parts of four seasons as a Mariner:

46 starts
3.31 ERA

The entire Bedard experience, boiled down to two numbers. Bedard infrequently pitched. When he pitched, he was good, even when he was pitching hurt.

And he pitched hurt. He pitched a lot of those starts hurt. Bedard developed a bad reputation early on that he was never able to shake, a reputation for surliness and softness, but he didn't deserve it. He didn't deserve all of it, anyway, and he didn't deserve for it to last the whole time. He was definitely surly and unpleasant with the media early on, but he got better as he grew more comfortable, and he pitched when he could. People acted as if Bedard's injury-proneness somehow reflected on him as a person. He wasn't blessed with Randy Johnson's body. So what? He tried.

Even though so many fans and so many media types had negative things to say where Bedard was concerned, he willingly came back, then he willingly came back again. Bedard turned down better offers to stay with Seattle, which shows how comfortable he became with the city and the team. And he rebounded from an awful lot. Erik Bedard hasn't just been a good pitcher most of this season - he's been a good pitcher after being hurt so many times. That takes a lot of hard work, and Erik Bedard put in the work.

The results this season were good enough to help keep the M's in the race for a time. When Bedard got hurt and the M's dropped out, he became expendable, and the results were good enough to make him attractive to contenders. It turns out Bedard showed enough on Friday to keep him on the radar after all. He's on the way now to join one of the best and smartest organizations in baseball.

There will be jokes about how Bedard is too soft for the Boston environment. There will be matter-of-fact declarations that Bedard is too soft for the Boston environment. With that in mind, this Bedard interview from 2007 is interesting:

Q: Most fun city in baseball?

A: Boston. I love the stadium and the city. It's not overwhelming like New York.

Bedard may succeed in Boston. He may not. He will be criticized if he falters. But he has the ability to do great things, and if he does great things in the playoffs, he could be a legend. We've all seen how good he can be.

It's interesting that, in the four years Bedard spent with the Mariners organization, the Mariners were never in serious contention. One wonders if this trade might be the biggest contribution he's made to the team. Maybe it is and maybe it isn't, but let it be said that, no matter what you thought of Bedard's chapter in Seattle, it's ending on a high note. Bedard didn't leave the M's with nothing to show for their 2008 blockbuster. As of today, he's left the M's with a pair of real interesting prospects who aren't that far away.

So let's get to the return. Oh and also Josh Fields was included. Josh Fields is bad. Nothing against Josh Fields as a person, but Josh Fields the pitcher didn't look like he was ever going to help the Mariners. Between double-A and triple-A this year, Fields has walked 32 dudes in 39 innings. Josh Fields was drafted 20th overall. Anyway.

Of the two prospects coming back, Trayvon Robinson is the more exciting. Robinson turns 24 in September. He's a switch-hitting center fielder who's spent the year in triple-A. In triple-A, he's slugged .563, with 26 home runs and an unusual nine doubles. The caveats are pretty obvious. First of all, Albuquerque is a hitter-friendly park in a hitter-friendly league. Robinson's numbers are inflated. Second of all, a third of his swings so far this season have missed. He has a higher whiff rate in triple-A than both Greg Halman and Carlos Peguero.

But while Robinson is prone to striking out, he isn't an all-or-nothing sort, in that he knows how to work a walk. He walked 73 times a season ago. He's walked 45 times in 2011. He has an idea of the strike zone, and isn't completely flummoxed by good pitchers. In other words, there's clear offensive upside, and this from a switch-hitter who can play in the middle. Robinson's ceiling, then, is elevated. He isn't far away, and while he could bust, he could boom, and he's one of the organization's better young talents.

The other guy is Chih-Hsien Chiang, who seems like he's murder on announcers. Chiang's a 23-year-old lefty corner outfielder who's repeating double-A. But where that might be cause for alarm, here's why it isn't, so much:

2010, AA: .732 OPS
2011, AA: 1.046 OPS

Chiang's repeating, but he's also been obliterating his opponents, to the tune of a .338/.399/.647 batting line. He hasn't walked a lot, but he also hasn't developed a strikeout problem, and he's clubbed 58 extra-base hits. Last year he hit 47 in 125 more trips to the plate.

What's been the secret to Chiang's eruption? Well, if you listen to Alex Speier, it's been improved awareness and management of his diabetes. Chiang's more committed to maintaining his health now than he has been in seasons past, and the results are plainly evident. Chiang's stock is rising, and if this keeps up, he could be a quick mover.

Two prospects. Two outfield prospects in the upper levels, each of whom has some power, in exchange for a free-agent-to-be and a busted reliever. It's very possible that neither Robinson nor Chiang ever make it. Neither of them is ready now, and there are potholes and speed bumps along the way. But the Mariners just gained two good talents without really making any kind of significant sacrifice at all, and that's the sign of a hell of a trade. It is impossible to be disappointed by this.

Comment 82 comments  |  7 recs  | 

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Very nice deal...

As a lifelong Dodgers fan who’s come to love the Mariners just as much, I love this deal for the M’s. Trayvon has been getting very good press from some very knowledgeable Dodgers minor-league watchers. He was expected to be a large part of the future, and had he not been dealt to the Mariners, I’d be crying in my beer tonight. Heck of a return… nicely done, Z.

by watsonj88 on Jul 31, 2011 2:52 PM PDT reply actions   2 recs

Pretty impressive

we gave up so little and we got some promising looking players. I guess Chiang was just blocked by Kalish, Reddick and Crawford so he was expendable but man he looks like he could be here fast.

by 1AndDone on Jul 31, 2011 2:55 PM PDT reply actions  

I'm guessing

Both will report to Tacoma?

by zmoney on Jul 31, 2011 2:58 PM PDT reply actions  

Makes sense considering the OF situation in Tacoma

Wilson, Peguero, Saunders, Pena, and Limonta are already there and 3/5 probably warrant more time than Chiang does. Robinson will only further reduce his opportunities.

I am interested to see if they play Robinson in CF over Saunders. It might give us an inkling into what the FO thinks of Saunders future after his dismal start to the year.

by tdot mariner fan on Jul 31, 2011 4:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sign up Wilford Brimley!

"Perhaps the worst comment I've ever seen on LL." - sanford_and_son.

by Ride the Apocalypse on Jul 31, 2011 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

But doesn't he have "diabeatis?"

A trick is something a whore does for money...

by Magician Named Gob on Jul 31, 2011 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

Diabeetus

2011 Safeco Field Record: 1-0 ; Overall Safeco Field Record: 13-5

by Fin on Jul 31, 2011 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

It must be good for public relations somehow.

Does Seattle have a higher than average diabetic population?

"Satisfaction is the enemy of success." SanFranPreps Twitter: @d_quazzo

by perfectstrat on Jul 31, 2011 8:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

Chih-Hsien Chiang

Chee-Hsin Chi-ang
Chee-Hs ’n Chi-ong
Cheech ’n Chong!

by sandalfan on Jul 31, 2011 3:04 PM PDT reply actions  

I too made this connection.

I’m not sure whether it’s racist or not.

"Perhaps the worst comment I've ever seen on LL." - sanford_and_son.

by Ride the Apocalypse on Aug 1, 2011 5:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

Outfield prospects!

For a half-season rental! And, as an added bonus, no more Josh Fields!

This went about as well as reasonably possible.

by cwel87 on Jul 31, 2011 3:09 PM PDT reply actions  

Love the deal.

Love this deal even more than Fister/Pauley deal, which I also think was awesome.

Well done, Jack Z.

by nicktjacob on Jul 31, 2011 3:13 PM PDT reply actions  

We got two prospects for nothing

Don’t get me wrong, I love Erik Bedard. The man came in under impossible conditions, took a lot of abuse and showed loyalty to the organization that had stuck with him. But from the perspective of the Mariners, a free agent to be is useless when the team is going nowehere.

Josh Fields, on the other hand, was that rare double mistake, one by Bavasi in drafting him and one by Zduriencik in signing him. Z should have thrown him back and taken the extra draft pick. A total waste of money.

So I don’t care if we just traded for gold or fool’s gold, we gave up nothing.

by Breadbaker on Jul 31, 2011 4:02 PM PDT reply actions  

I like how Zduriencik might have just managed to rebuild our depth in the OF

We have gone from being forced to keep Greg Halman up as a back up to Gutierrez to having 2 guys in that can play CF, Robinson’s speed is arguably better than Well’s but the latter possesses a much stronger arm. Both also show they have some understanding of the strike zone though Robinson apparently is still prone to swinging for the fences occasionally, as Sickel’s notes. With Wells and Robinson now around and Pena and Carp providing some depth, Saunders, Halman, and Peguero have the opportunity to sort themselves out at the plate in AAA with fewer ugly MLB PAs in the process.

Chiang seems like an interesting player but not much of a prospect. It is really hard to comment much on him after him being largely off the prospect radar for a while. He played 2B until 2009, when he was moved to the OF due to below average defence there. Sox prospects has him as average to above average runner with a strong arm. The versatility will help us if he breaks into the Mariners for he seems to be best employed as a back-up OF/utility player at present.

He reminds of Matt Lawson in the sense that both are marginal prospects and both were acquired for relievers that were underperforming and were throw-ins in a trade for a much better starter.

Chiang, Martinez, and the PTBNL give us something minor leaugers to watch. Well’s and Robinson give us more options in LF, a back up CF, and potential Ichiro insurance(not that we would ever need to claim it). Furbush and Beavan have the opportunity to be tested as starters for the rest of the year. Not bad at all Zduriencik.

by tdot mariner fan on Jul 31, 2011 4:09 PM PDT reply actions  

I think that is underselling Chiang. What he has done at AA this year is pretty damn impressive.

And the issue with diabetes could be a real explanation for why he wasn’t highly regarded coming into this season.

I find him very interesting.

by Rudy4three on Jul 31, 2011 5:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

Totally agree

I have Chiang as around the M’s #7 prospect at this point. I don’t think he’s a can’t miss guy at all, but he’s certainly interesting.

by dnc on Jul 31, 2011 7:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

I am being admittedly cautious with him

due to not being able to find much scouting information on him. Sickels has posted an article since then on him describing his tool as nothing that stands out. On the positive side, scouts apparently like his swing but his plate discipline still needs work. The numbers do not mean as much to me because he is repeating AA as a 23 year old and his BABIP is about .09 higher than his previous 2 seasons. His plate discipline seems to have atrophied slightly this year.

In the end, his power does make him interesting as does the resolution of his diabetes issues. However, until he sustains this kind of power and other rates in AAA or scouts start saying he has more raw power than initially stated, I will remain skeptical.

Raking him at #7 would be underrating some very good guys in our system right now. I think he is clearly outside the top 10 for me.

by tdot mariner fan on Aug 1, 2011 2:21 AM PDT up reply actions  

Jack Zduriencik: Master of the three-way trade

I wish Bedard the best (especially health-wise), but this is so much of a better return than I thought we could get I cannot say I am feeling especially sad now.

by quacker27 on Jul 31, 2011 4:30 PM PDT reply actions  

So is Robinson potential Ichiro replacement?

I hate saying that.

How come you can do all this other great shit, but you can't lie the fuck down and sleep?

by JAH on Jul 31, 2011 5:19 PM PDT reply actions  

Gutierrez: .212 wOBA

Ichiro: .288 wOBA

M's fan (soon) in SF My homepage

by lailaihei on Jul 31, 2011 5:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'd dump ichi for guti anyday of the week given the present ages they are respectively.

Who would keep a 38yr old fading star to get rid of a 29yr old CF who is possibly the best defensively at his position, and I still think the bat thing with guti is lingering effects of not having a spring training or being able to really work for a long time…

by Seahawks4life on Jul 31, 2011 5:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

We may have to dump both.

Guti is a great defender, but you can’t be .100wOBA below avereage and a starter on a serious team. That is a platoon player at best.

by philosofool on Aug 1, 2011 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ichiro: Old and potentially reaching the end of his physical ability to be magical at baseball.

Gutierrez: In his physical prime, coming off of a prolonged illness which caused kept him feeling poorly, losing weight, and unable to do baseball things for a while.

One of these is a likely permanent problem. One of these is potentially a shorter term problem.

by abender20 on Jul 31, 2011 5:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well since his illness is an incurable one

there is a chance they both likely are permanent problems. So in the near future I would think Guti is the one we should be more concerned about replacing. As much as that disappoints me to say.

by A Public Alias on Jul 31, 2011 6:56 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

Weak arm

Not necessarily – Trayvon’s range is supposedly CF caliber, but his arm isn’t all that great, leading to some speculation that he’s a speedy LF in the end. So I wouldn’t say he’s directly Ichiro’s prospective replacement in RF… (Note I’m not making any mention of how the scads of random OF bit players that we have suddenly accumulated may have an effect on Ichiro’s future. I suppose it all boils down to just how highly you think of each of these potential OF pieces…)

by ebbnflow on Jul 31, 2011 5:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not a RF

Doesn’t have the arm for it. What he could be is Well’s replacement in left and Wells could shift to right to replace Ichiro.

by dnc on Jul 31, 2011 7:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

Good luck in Boston Bedard

I’ll be rooting for you.

To improve, they should try to become the musical southern cal of the west. - bRuins Nation poster on the Stanford band.

by bluemax on Jul 31, 2011 5:29 PM PDT reply actions  

Red Sox fan here

Just wanted to add few things about Chiang: He has a Rocket arm but his defense in COF is still a work in progress (He was shifted from the Infield last season) but the bat is ready to be tested in the ML (He wasn’t promoted to AAA because the OF spots in Pawtucket were occupied by Kalish, Reddick,Lin and Nava) and boy what a beautiful swing he has!
He’ll be good, I’ll be rooting for him!

Twitter | "Almost every organization has a guy like Papelbon or Lester" - Dave Cameron 12/29/2005

by radiohix on Jul 31, 2011 5:46 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Thanks for chiming in. I'm more excited about this guy than I am Robinson.

Read a few articles where his teammates and coaches marvel at his swing and ability to hit line drives around the park. Hopefully he can play a passable COF at some point.

by Rudy4three on Jul 31, 2011 5:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

From a poster at SoxProspects.com

Since 2000, out of all the players with 300 AB’s in the EL, only 1 has had a higher OPS than CHC (1.043). That player was Randy Ruiz, who was a 27-year old career minor leaguer at that point.

Filter the players who are 23-and-under and CHC is ahead in OPS by about 50 points. The top 15 leaderboard is as follows:

1. Victor Martinez (.993)
2. Michael Taylor (.977)
3. Michael Cuddyer (.955)
4. Garrett Jones (.949)
5. Carlos Santana (.943)
6. Marlon Byrd (.941)
7. Alexis Rios (.924)
8. Mike Jacobs (.923)
9. Curtis Granderson (.922)
10. Ryan Raburn (.922)
11. Jed Lowrie (.911)
12. Jordan Brown (.906)
13. Gabe Gross (.903)
14. Adam Lind (.900)
15. Eric Thames (.896)

Not bad. Not bad at all.

Twitter | "Almost every organization has a guy like Papelbon or Lester" - Dave Cameron 12/29/2005

by radiohix on Jul 31, 2011 5:49 PM PDT reply actions   7 recs

Really helpful, thank you.

Maybe there is a likable Boston fan out there…

I've got ridiculous upside.

by Jacson Bevens on Jul 31, 2011 6:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

The stuff at Soxprospects is a really good read on this kid.. He's essentially be destroying

AA since last July. Seems underrated to me because he doesn’t have big tools, but it looks like he can just flat out hit from the left side

by Rudy4three on Jul 31, 2011 6:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

The Boston fans who aren't from Boston are only slightly worse

than the Boston fans who have never been to Boston. They are the worst fans in sports.

However, the best random stranger baseball conversations I’ve had have all been in non-bleacher Fenway seats with Red Sox fans.

by Jed MC on Jul 31, 2011 8:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

I note the Dave Cameron comment in your signature.

I can already pretty much figure out what the deal is with that, but I admit I’m curious.

Also, is Chiang’s name really acronym’d down to CHC… like the Chicago Cubs?

Egads… I do not want to have to start nicknaming him Cubbie…

Fans are typically idiots.

by The Typical Idiot Fan on Jul 31, 2011 6:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's the ten year rule.

Look back ten years ago did I know anything? No, I was a goddamn idiot. Ten years from now I will look back and go “Wow, I was a goddamn idiot.”

How come you can do all this other great shit, but you can't lie the fuck down and sleep?

by JAH on Jul 31, 2011 7:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

I agree. I know you can't look at things in hindsight, but man

it would’ve been nice to trade Reed for one of those two pitchers.

“With Nageotte hopefully healthy, and Bazardo, Foppert, and Carvajal being added in the past 6 months, the M’s have a fairly decent crop of upper level pitching prospects.”

I wonder what happened to these guys…I know I know, prospects don’t always pan out which is why teams overpay for veteran free agents. But I wonder whether it was the way they were coached that made them all busts, or if it was just that they never got good enough to play in the big leagues.

2011 Safeco Field Record: 1-0 ; Overall Safeco Field Record: 13-5

by Fin on Jul 31, 2011 9:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't think the analysis back then was wrong at all.

The critique on Papelbon was fine. He hasn’t come even close to succeeding as a starter and all he throws is a fastball as a closer. That he’s managed to make that work is a surprise to everybody. The Lester critique was also fine. Back then he hadn’t developed his secondary stuff to nearly the levels he’s at now.

Cameron’s snarked at point is still valid. Papelbon and Lester exist in everybody’s minor league system. That these two figured it out doesn’t change that fact. Most don’t. We have them right now. Paxton is Lester, Lueke (or someone) is Papelbon. Whether they become 2011’s Lester and Papelbon remains to be seen. This is one reason why hindsight analysis is bullshit. It looks really stupid NOW to say that NOW, but back THEN is not NOW with all the information we have NOW that we didn’t THEN.

It’s partly why I brought up the sig, actually. While this Sox fan seems like a nice guy, I’m wondering if there isn’t a little lingering something in there.

Fans are typically idiots.

by The Typical Idiot Fan on Aug 1, 2011 12:37 AM PDT up reply actions   3 recs

Oh, I guess I should finish my thought.

When I said “stupid”, I was referring to the thread, really. God we was dumb. I’m sure DMZ is pleased as punch he doesn’t have to do that shit anymore.

Fans are typically idiots.

by The Typical Idiot Fan on Aug 1, 2011 12:43 AM PDT up reply actions  

DMZ is back though.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Aug 1, 2011 12:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

Goodbye Erik

I didn’t like how you came to Seattle, but over time you’ve endeared yourself to me and probably many other fans. I hope you succeed in Boston. However, I’m very excited about the prospects coming back, just because I’m really high on Trayvon.

by SuperDopaLiciousFunkStar on Jul 31, 2011 6:00 PM PDT via mobile reply actions  

I love how Jim Bowden gave the Mariners a C+ for the trade while

he gave the Dodgers a B-. I don’t have ESPN Insider so I can’t read his “analysis” but it just reinforces the fact that Bowden is an idiot. At least Keith Law liked both deals for them.

by Coach Owens on Jul 31, 2011 7:44 PM PDT reply actions  

My favorite Jim Bowden moment

was when he advocated the use of OPS + RBIs for hitter evaluation. He called it OPSBIs.

I wish I were kidding.

by huskies2010 on Jul 31, 2011 10:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

"Stats"

It's hard to convince people to let you eat them if you're an asshole. - Thingray

by Faux on Aug 1, 2011 6:04 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I wish there were some explanation

He just throws the idea out there, but doesn’t explain why. Perhaps he was trying to quantify a players ability to be successful when the players around him are successful?

I feel like Charlie Brown trying to kick the football. Ugh

by HitKing69 on Aug 1, 2011 6:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

Jack Z always arranges the best three ways.

How come you can do all this other great shit, but you can't lie the fuck down and sleep?

by JAH on Jul 31, 2011 8:13 PM PDT reply actions   4 recs

So long Erik.

I will forever be amazed at your curveball.

"Satisfaction is the enemy of success." SanFranPreps Twitter: @d_quazzo

by perfectstrat on Jul 31, 2011 8:58 PM PDT reply actions  

Hey guys Im a new poster here.

Do you guys here at the LL communiity think that Chih-Hsien Chiang can be our version of Sin-Soo Choo?

by DoctaTuck on Jul 31, 2011 9:27 PM PDT reply actions  

No!

Oh god don’t give me nightmares!

PHd in Fly-Fishing and Fast Food Historian

by DoctaTuck on Jul 31, 2011 9:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

Seems a little weird to say "our version" of someone we actually had.

Anyway, no. Choo walks a ton. I think Chiang, assuming all this he’s doing this year is legit, is more like Carlos Gonzalez. Then again, he could also be Cameron Maybin, so who the hell knows.

Fans are typically idiots.

by The Typical Idiot Fan on Aug 1, 2011 12:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

It seems to me the similarities end at him being Korean

I feel like Charlie Brown trying to kick the football. Ugh

by HitKing69 on Aug 1, 2011 6:05 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Irony can be so ironic

Does anyone else find it amazing that the Red Sox came and gor Bedard because they were afraid Rich Harden was too much of an injury risk?

Hi guys. Hope you’re all doing well!

by kva15 on Jul 31, 2011 9:29 PM PDT reply actions  

We're doing about as well as can be expected in a lost season. Sound familiar?

How’s Jeff doing in the MWL?

(Incidentally, I really wonder if Beane would like to have last night back. I understand holding out for a better deal when Boston supposedly dropped it to Lars Anderson only. I know Anderson isn’t good, and Beane then got Allen, but by holding out, he let the M’s get Chiang and Robinson somehow).

by marc w on Jul 31, 2011 10:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

Bedard's always been a sizable injury risk, no doubt

But I’m not sure if any pitcher this era compares to Rich Harden’s penchant to simultaneously stay relevant while not pitching more than three consecutive games at any time.

by cwel87 on Aug 1, 2011 4:52 AM PDT up reply actions  

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