Ryan Langerhans/Mike Morse Reflections

by Jeff Sullivan on Jul 29, 2011 4:10 PM PDT in Miscellaneous

Ryan Langerhans is gone now. He's been traded to the Diamondbacks for cash considerations, which is the nice and complicated way of saying he's been sold like goods. He had to be moved to make room in Tacoma for Wily Mo Pena, and while the Mariners have run the risk of losing Langerhans before, this time it looks more permanent. This time, Ryan Langerhans may never come back.

Langerhans brought us some great memories as a Mariner, two of which are embedded below this post on the front page, and overall he was just fine for what he is. This move, though, provides an opportunity for people to look back on the day he was brought in for Mike Morse. Morse has blossomed into a fine hitter with the Nationals, and given that Langerhans was little more than an unspectacular backup outfielder, there are a lot of people out there who think that was a dumb move, and wish it had never been made.

Well, those are two separate things. As for the latter, all right. It's sensible to wish this trade had never been made, given what Morse has turned into, and given how this organization is light on hitters. Of course, there's no guarantee that Morse would've followed the same development path with the Mariners. That's impossible to know.

As for the former, though, no. As we've said a million times, a front office can only operate with the knowledge it has at the time of a move. When Morse was traded for Langerhans, the Mariners were in the AL West running, but they were down a speedy left-handed outfielder after Endy Chavez got obliterated by our shortstop. The team had a need, and Langerhans fit as a guy who could get on base and play all three positions.

To get Langerhans, the Mariners gave up a guy who wasn't highly thought of at the time. Morse was a poor defensive 27-year-old infielder in triple-A hitting for a high average. He wasn't much in the field, he didn't walk, and his power was limited, meaning his value was mostly tied up in singles and doubles. That wasn't much of a package. Morse had his supporters, but it did not look like he had a Major League future - at least not as a starter. It was easy to see him as a pinch-hitter or something.

And then, in 2010, Morse kicked it up. To illustrate what happened, here are Morse's PA per home run (combined) in triple-A and the Majors:

2007-2009: 36.0
2010-2011: 20.1

Morse was always projectable. He was always toolsy. Morse is a big dude, and big dudes are expected to be able to hit the ball a long way. In isolation, it is not surprising that Mike Morse is a decent power hitter now with the Nationals.

But when he was traded away, Morse hadn't yet shown that ability on a consistent basis. Granted, he missed almost all of 2008 after surgery, but he was a 27-year-old line drive hitter who was hitting home runs about as often as the old Mike Carp. He wasn't what he's become, and there were only faint glimmers that he'd be able to make this leap.

You could argue that he shouldn't have been jettisoned specifically because he was so projectable and toolsy, but, how long do you hang on to those guys? How highly do you value them? How long do you wait for a guy to hit for big power before you give up on him hitting for big power? Morse, to that point, had nearly 1,400 plate appearances in triple-A and the Majors. He had 28 home runs. Things didn't look good.

Obviously, they've worked out. Obviously, Morse has improved, seizing an opportunity in Washington and establishing himself as a big league hitter. He still doesn't walk, and he still doesn't play a lot of defense, but he hits the ball hard enough often enough to stay in the lineup.

I just don't think you can blame the Mariners for letting him get away. The deal doesn't look great in hindsight, but you can't evaluate these things by hindsight, because that isn't fair. You can be happy for Morse. You can wish the Mariners didn't deal him. But I don't think it's fair to say they screwed up. They dealt a guy of limited value for a guy of limited value who fit an immediate need. That's the right thing to do.

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Comments

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Langerhans ends up back here sometime in the next year or two.

by hcoguy on Jul 29, 2011 4:21 PM PDT reply actions

I'd be surprised if Langerhans was in the MLB in two years.

by Edgar for Pres on Jul 29, 2011 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions

I liked Morse...

but I wasn’t “in like” with him. I always had hope he would be consistently played and good. But I had that hope for Willie Bloomquist too… I’m glad he’s succeeding.

by Belom3 on Jul 29, 2011 4:29 PM PDT reply actions

I liked Mike Morse when I thought he was a shortstop

My super-exciting Mariners blog

by Simon Phoenix on Jul 29, 2011 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions

Two things I remember

He was out of options and passed thru waivers when he was sent to AAA and again when taken off the 40 man the year of the trade.

More than 80% of bloggers (both on this and the paper sites) seemed to feel about him at the time of the trade the way Tui is discussed (and not discussed) today. Do I hear any Tui for 3rd chants? (Chirp, Chirp)

by jaketrash on Jul 29, 2011 4:55 PM PDT reply actions

Wait, I just heard a distant voice

It is quite, but the soft sound of “better than what we have” can be heard.

by jaketrash on Jul 29, 2011 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions

Sadly, he's not a 3B anymore.

by marc w on Jul 29, 2011 11:22 PM PDT up reply actions

To me, this is similar to how Matt Thornton turned out.

Not in my feelings of the player, per se, but in a way that they blossomed into something valuable sometime after they were traded away when the odds were against them.

We also didn’t expect offense to go downhill to the point where what Mike Morse is doing looks real inciting at the moment. The team finished with a .313 wOBA (which is obviously not very good) in 2009, the year Morse was traded. Who knew we’d be talking about our offense putting up just a collective .280 wOBA in 2011?

We found guys like David Aardsma, Jason Vargas, and potentially Mike Carp just lying around in other organizations so it’s not like it’s just a one-way thing.

by ThundaPC on Jul 29, 2011 5:07 PM PDT reply actions

Mike Morse wasn't putting up numbers, wasn't good at D, and was old to not be performing at AAA.

Oh and he had a steroid suspension in his past. So there’s a reason most people were happy to be done with him. I don’t feel we need to be welling with regret.

by SethGrandpa on Jul 29, 2011 5:54 PM PDT reply actions

I totally read that as "we don't need to be wetting with regret"

Which made perfect sense to me.

by nathaniel dawson on Jul 29, 2011 7:00 PM PDT up reply actions

Forgot about the steroid suspension, I remember that souring my opinion of him at the time.

by Patrick Stites on Jul 30, 2011 3:55 AM PDT up reply actions

My thoughts ...

I believed Morse would hit at any level. I’d seen enough of him to know that he could hit big league pitching. I think had he not got hurt in the 2008 season, we would have seen put him solid numbers at the plate. They wouldn’t have been the numbers he is putting up now, but good enough numbers to force the Mariners to keep him around.

I had no problem with the logic behind Zdruiencik’s move at the time. They needed some outfield help. And I know Morse fell out of favor with Zduriencik, Wakamatsu and even Chuck Armstrong, which made moving him easier for them as well.

My bigger problem lies with the previous regime. Bill Bavasi and Greg Hunter looked at this big toolsy kid with all this potential and possible power and let him play shortstop the whole time. Everybody knew he couldn’t play shortstop at the next level, but these fucking guys were so wrapped up trading away prospects for has-beens and ever-will-be’s to make the sensible decision and transition him permanently to an outfield or corner position.

How many shortstops are there in the big leagues that are 6-5 and 235 pounds?

It wasn’t till the rotting carcass of Brad Wilkerson showed up to spring training in 2008 25 pounds overweight and off the juice that they decided, “Hey, maybe we can try Morse in the outfield?” He’d been the organization for four seasons, and they couldn’t figure that out? And so of course, they did – as they did everything – in a half-assed, lazy way. He took some fly balls, started some games in left field, and looked awkward and lost.

John McLaren’s brilliant solution was to have Jay Buhner work with him. Cause the super powers that Buhner acquired from simply playing on the 1995 team would surely turn a guy, who never played outfield, into a viable major league outfielder in less than three weeks. What a fucking a joke.

So then Morse hits .500 during the spring, Wilkerson is clearly done, and Bavasi doesn’t want to admit it. They have to bring Morse, who is nowhere near ready to play. And what happens? They put him left. He gets a bad jump on a ball, dives awkwardly and hurts himself for the season.

The best part was how mystified McLaren was that something like that happened. He was legitimately surprised. At least, he didn’t start crying. That would happen later in the season – like six different times.

Then again this is the same front office that allowed Mike Hargrove turn their top draft pick 2006 draft into a reliever because he thought he might help their bullpen every other game.

Realistically, if a normal set of minds were running the organization, they would have known after one or two years that Morse wasn’t a shortstop. They would have looked at the kid and said, he’s got all these tools and this body and this size, let’s try and find him a position where he fits. And even if they were put in the situation like Bavasi was in 2008, a normal GM would have played Morse every single preseason game in left field and right field and nothing else. But nope, the whole thing was one gigantic clusterfuck from the very beginning.

Morse was a good player who could have contributed, but because this team was being run by imbeciles at the time, he never developed into anything more than a good hitter playing out of position.

There are times when I think about the decisions being made by Bavasi and his staff, and the more I get the mental images of two monkeys throwing their own shit at each other.

by Ryan Divish on Jul 29, 2011 7:45 PM PDT reply actions 25 recs

Holy crap.

by ThundaPC on Jul 30, 2011 12:05 AM PDT up reply actions

Is the problem Tacoma?

Wouldn’t you, as a AAA player, almost sign your soul over to Satan to get out of Tacoma, the veritable armpit of the world? Seattle having their AAA in Tacoma has the equivalent stupidity of a Chicago team having their AAA team in Gary, Indiana. Except, there is no minor league team in Gary..
In short, it’s no wonder that marginal guys hit the crap out of the ball when their in Tacoma; anything to get out of that hell-hole.

by Mike.H on Jul 29, 2011 10:33 PM PDT reply actions

here's the problem

the fact is that Morse became a good player, one we’d love to have (someone who can hit for average and power), but we gave him away. so either we misjudged his talent or failed to develop it, right? either talent analysis or coaching failure.
it happens to every team probably.

but can we think of any players we’ve gotten recently who started achieving more with us?
yes on some pitchers, (Aardsma comes to mind, for example), but any hitters who actually improved once they got to us, or minor league position prospects we picked up who started to hit in the bigs? I can’t think of any.

by Wally Moon on Aug 1, 2011 7:59 PM PDT reply actions