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Around SBN: The Most Dangerous Division in Sports

Mariners Win Game In US Cellular, But Fail To Destroy It

I think it's fair to say I've developed a certain hatred of the White Sox. We probably all have. I approached the game tonight more impassioned than I usually do, because I wanted quite badly for the Mariners to win in Chicago in a demoralizing way.

It's weird, because I have no long-standing or permanent reason to feel like this. The White Sox aren't a division rival. The Mariners beat them in the playoffs. I haven't had to listen to Hawk Harrelson in years. I don't live in or near Chicago, I have practically zero interaction with White Sox fans, and the ones I've known have not been unusually rude. I like that Ozzie Guillen exists. I don't feel much of anything for any of their players, aside from Matt Thornton.

The reason I've developed a certain hatred of the White Sox is that lately the White Sox have had the Mariners' number. It's that simple. Which makes this a strange and conditional kind of hate. I didn't hate the White Sox. Then the White Sox started beating the Mariners all the time. So I started to hate the White Sox. And I will continue to hate the White Sox for only as long as they continue to beat the Mariners.

With teams like the Angels, Red Sox and Yankees, I will hate them now and forever, and there's nothing that could make me feel any different. But with the White Sox, just a handful of Mariner wins could nudge me back to indifference, the way I am with the Tigers and Royals. So it's another kind of hate. A potentially fleeting kind of hate.

I am confident that, if the Mariners beat the White Sox a bunch of times and put the slump in the past, all will be forgiven and mostly forgotten, and I won't care about playing them anymore. At that point, I won't go into the games riding extra emotion, and I won't come away feeling extra good about a victory.

But we're not at that point yet. I still hate the White Sox. I think we all still hate the White Sox. So tonight's win felt superb. The White Sox may be a one-sided and temporary rival, but they're all the same to the brain, and beating a rival is a total delight.

Star-divide

Straight to the bullet holes:

  • Despite pitching in one of the worst possible parks for his skillset, Jason Vargas turned in 7.1 strong innings, marking the sixth time he's made it through at least seven in 13 starts. His last seven starts now read like this:

    Strong
    Gem
    Gem
    Disaster
    Disaster
    Gem
    Strong

    I don't know what the difference is between successful Vargas and unsuccessful Vargas. I can guess, and I can guess some more, but I can't pinpoint any one or two things. All I can say is that, when unsuccessful Vargas drops in for a visit, he does so with little warning, and doesn't stay very long.

  • In the top of the eighth inning, Ozzie Guillen called on Jesse Crain out of the bullpen, and Miguel Olivo immediately took him yard on his third pitch. In the top of the tenth inning, Ozzie Guillen came out for a mound meeting with Sergio Santos, and after the game resumed, Olivo immediately knocked Santos for a double on his first pitch, forcing Guillen to bring in Brian Bruney. When Guillen replaced his reliever, he got burned. When Guillen left in his reliever, he got burned. There is no right way to manage against Miguel Olivo.

    Olivo's slugging percentage is now the highest it's been since the second game of the year. Since April 26th, he has slugged .524. You'll remember that April 26th was also the morning the Mariners woke up at 8-15. Miguel Olivo's hot streak is not the single reason behind the Mariners' surge toward relevance, but the two are rather strikingly linked.

  • One of the interesting things about Franklin Gutierrez is that I've felt so good about having him back in the lineup that I hardly noticed that he came into play today with a .505 OPS. I'd seen some good swings, I'd seen some solid contact, and I just assumed his numbers were fine. They were not, so his two-run double today - in a 1-2 count, no less - was a welcome sight. He stayed back on a low curve and ripped it down the left field line. At this point, I am minimally concerned about Guti; while I don't know how he's physically feeling, he looks just fine at the plate and in the field, even if he doesn't quite have the numbers to show for it.

  • The Coors Light Freeze Cam roll in the later innings showed a bunch of attractive, busty women. It showed attractive, busty women at the park, it showed attractive, busty women at the beach, and it showed attractive, busty women at the game. It then very briefly showed a big fat guy in the stadium drinking a beer, but it immediately cut to the play-by-play camera, presumably hoping that no one would notice. I'd be critical, but, Coors Light. Coors Light is currently running two commercials based around the exact same bar exam joke. Like, the exact same.

  • Sleep Country:

    These deals aren't just hot - they're explosive!

    A deal can be neither hot nor explosive. An active land mine, on the other hand, can be both hot and explosive. I do not think I want to sleep on a Sleep Country mattress.

  • Matt Thornton throws 98% fastballs or cutters. Tonight, he threw 17 pitches, 16 of which were fastballs, and one of which was a cutter. Matt Thornton is also one of the more dominant left-handed relievers in baseball. Maybe we've had it all wrong the whole time. Given the Thornton and Mariano Rivera examples, maybe it isn't about developing a breaking ball or a dependable changeup. Maybe it's just about gas. Gas gas gas. Forget everything we've been telling you, Brandon League. You had it right the first time.

  • One does note that, after sitting and watching Thornton throw 1.2 perfect innings, League came out for his save opportunity and threw 10/10 fastballs. Monkey see.

  • Tonight provides the latest opportunity to remind everyone that Jamey Wright is neither a good reliever, nor a bad one. He is right in the middle, making up for his miserable strikeouts and walks with his sprawling vineyard of groundballs. Jamey Wright is a useful sinkerballer who is being forced to throw about one or two innings too late.

  • Between May 5th - May 29th, Brendan Ryan batted .424, so Eric Wedge moved him up to the second slot in the lineup. Since reaching the second slot in the lineup, Ryan has batted .174 in nine games. What have we learned about singles hitters and hot streaks?

  • In a 3-0 count in the top of the sixth, Carlos Peguero got the green light against Gavin Floyd and crushed an inside cutter foul, but impossibly deep. I will insist until I am blue in the face that there may be analytical value in tracking individual hitters' and pitchers' foul balls. I would be interested in seeing if there's anything predictive.

    Peguero wound up working a walk, by the way, taking a 3-2 curve in the dirt. For most hitters, individual walks are not necessarily signs of progress, but Carlos Peguero is not most hitters, and I literally do not expect him to draw a walk ever. "He's learning!" I type with a nervous, uncertain laugh.

  • In the fifth inning, Mike Carp fell behind Floyd 0-2 after three consecutive pitches to the same spot over the outer edge. Floyd then tried to bust him inside with a fastball off the plate. Carp turned on it for a line drive double.

  • The Mariners' entire tenth inning rally started when Justin Smoak dropped a bloop double between Juan Pierre and Brent Morel in shallow left field. The ball hung up forever, and only landed on grass because Pierre had been playing Smoak way deep. It's not every batter that gets that kind of respect to the opposite field.

Doug Fister and Justin Verlander tomorrow as the M's kick off a four-game set in Detroit. Last time the Mariners faced Verlander, they somehow scored four runs in six innings. And those Mariners didn't have Mike Carp on the team. I can't see how this possibly ends up good for the Tigers.

Comment 88 comments  |  3 recs  | 

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So true.

“With teams like the Angels, Red Sox and Yankees, I will hate them now and forever, and there’s nothing that could make me feel any different. But with the White Sox, just a handful of Mariner wins could nudge me back to indifference, the way I am with the Tigers and Royals. So it’s another kind of hate. A potentially fleeting kind of hate.”

I had basically this exact same conversation with a co-worker (an O’s fan) while we were watching the game yesterday.

by quacker27 on Jun 8, 2011 11:20 PM PDT reply actions  

There's a saying in Australian sport that goes something like:

“I follow two teams. and anyone playing .
I can certainly identify with this kind of hate though.
Who do you think is the next candidate for the two hole? Do we even have one?

by Aussie Mariner on Jun 8, 2011 11:25 PM PDT reply actions  

Ackley

Mariners/D Broncos/BSU Broncos fan in Seattle
The first rule of Lookout Landing is...

by appleshampoo on Jun 8, 2011 11:46 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

Ackley, eventually (once he "proves himself" lower down)

Right now, Kennedy. Or Rodriguez, if he’s in the lineup. Back when Figgins was still hitting 2nd and people were asking about replacements in the two hole, those two along with Ryan were names Wedge offered up.

What have we learned about singles hitters and hot streaks?
Judging from more than one conversation I’ve overheard lately, what we’ve learned is that Ryan can’t handle the “pressure” of batting 2nd and will resume hitting just as soon as he returns to the bottom third of the order. Sigh.

by J0SER on Jun 8, 2011 11:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

Is it shrewd of Wedge to do this?

You can always hope that the increased production is sustainable, but I have to think that there are intangible benefits in the clubhouse when strong performances are rewarded, regardless of whether the hot streak continues. Young players see the effort getting rewarded and the player getting pushed up feels more secure in their role on the team.

by mgldan on Jun 9, 2011 12:01 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

8-15,

I forgot about that. It’s amazing what a little bit of hope can do!

by ambrosia2112 on Jun 8, 2011 11:30 PM PDT reply actions  

I'm actually rather fond of the Tigers now

Don’t fucking ruin this relationship for us, Detroit.

by JLC on Jun 8, 2011 11:34 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Look at Morel

with his silly sally runnin

Efren Herrera is my spirit animal

by BeaverBird on Jun 8, 2011 11:35 PM PDT reply actions  

Jason Vargas is turning into a poor man's Andy Pettitte

I hope he doesn’t realize this and sign with an AL East team for $16 million a year.

by Matsui on Jun 8, 2011 11:35 PM PDT reply actions   2 recs

I did notice that there was more attention paid to busty women than necessary

but I guess that’s what happens when the camera crew has to go on a long road trip.

2011 Safeco Field Record: 1-0 ; Overall Safeco Field Record: 13-5

by Fin on Jun 8, 2011 11:37 PM PDT reply actions  

Yeah I also noticed.

Absolutely hilarious when those two with the pink hats attempted to take a picture together with the camera facing the wrong way.

by Shmelix Shmernandez on Jun 8, 2011 11:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

Impossibly deep fouls
In a 3-0 count in the top of the sixth, Carlos Peguero got the green light against Gavin Floyd and crushed an inside cutter foul, but impossibly deep.

Whenever something like this happens, especially with a relatively “unkown” hitter like Peguero, I always wonder if the pitcher and catcher, in that instant following the rush of relief when they see it go foul, catch each other’s eyes and think “Ok, we’re not going to try that pitch again.”

by J0SER on Jun 8, 2011 11:42 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

My White Sox hate goes slightly beyond losses. It's losses to a blah team.

The White Sox always strike me as incredibly uninteresting. If we had a similar record against the Royals I wouldn’t be as upset. The Royals are cute – just look at them try. The White Sox are just insufferably dull.

by SethGrandpa on Jun 8, 2011 11:43 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Ozzie is dormant

Every time the White Sox win, the Volcano Guillen stays silent. It’s a shame.

by scraps on Jun 8, 2011 11:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

They also are pretty much the exact opposite of the Mariners.

The White Sox are built to play in US Cellular which is pretty much the complete opposite of Safeco. Watching our team built on defense, left handed bats, and pitching go in and face a team built on hitting flyballs to left and watching them turn into dingers is really frustrating, because they would be long outs in Safeco.

by wetzelcoal on Jun 9, 2011 9:28 AM PDT up reply actions  

What have we learned about singles hitters and hot streaks?

I learned the 2 hole killed Figgins, and now look what it did to Ryan!
Fear the two hole! FEAR IT!

(That’s the way it works right? It’s the order and not the hitter… )

by Kunkoh on Jun 8, 2011 11:50 PM PDT reply actions  

It's Ichiro's fault!

Do you want to hear about my fantasy team?

by Cantu Easley Winn on Jun 8, 2011 11:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

#2hole

I just grossed myself out

by mgldan on Jun 9, 2011 12:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

Join it!

Trade for St. Louis’ 1st baseman!

by goyo70 on Jun 9, 2011 4:19 AM PDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't want to deal him for a rental player..

But I would imagine Mike Carp for their 1B straight-up would be enough. It would be a hard pill to swallow, but the St. Louis 1B is a all-star caliber player that could propel us into the pennant race over night. This would also be a sweet deal for St. Louis as they would add a cost-controlled 1B with prodigious power potential as demonstrated in his AAA performance this year. Win-Win-Win.

by seamariners85 on Jun 9, 2011 9:31 AM PDT up reply actions  

That St. Louis 1B has also shown some positional flexibility

Suggesting he could be shifted to 3B. Too bad Jose Bautista is going to be playing there.
Wait, we’re not filling out your fantasy roster?

by J0SER on Jun 9, 2011 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

That St. Louis 1B can't get along with your SS

Because he annoys him.

Shouldn’t you wait more than 9 games before throwing BR under the bus? After all St. Louis waited a year before doing it.

by bbfanatic on Jun 9, 2011 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

I don't have a fantasy roster.

And I absolutely think Albert Pujols could be had for Mike Carp.

by seamariners85 on Jun 9, 2011 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

Now I'll have this jingle stuck in my head all night

“Why buy a land-mine… a-ny-where else?” ding!

by NWade on Jun 8, 2011 11:57 PM PDT reply actions  

I loved Carp's double.

Looked great turning on that pitch. Strikeout in the (I think) 9th was bad though.

Also, League wasn’t actually throwing in the triple-digits, was he?

Aaron Curry was a bust the moment he took the field.
Replace home-plate umpires and their terrible strike zones with technology!

by Fearless Frog on Jun 9, 2011 2:31 AM PDT via mobile reply actions  

Pitchfx claims he was.

And yeah Carp looks much more polished than our other minor leaguers so far. I would love if he transferred somebod his AAA success tothe bigs this year and bore someswmblance to a legit average bat

by Shmelix Shmernandez on Jun 9, 2011 2:39 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

Some of his*, *semblance, and league average

Well that was bad. I always catch the autocorrects right after I click post

by Shmelix Shmernandez on Jun 9, 2011 2:41 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

It's not like he hasn't hit 100 before

In fact, I’m pretty sure that’s what got me interested in him in the first place, before noticing the DEATH SPLITTER.

by Eyeball Kid on Jun 9, 2011 4:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

Pitch f/x had him at 98-100

and Vargas at 87-89.

Considering the latter is Vargas’ normal velocity, it’s possible League was actually throwing 100 mph sinkers. Holy damn.

by redwolf75 on Jun 9, 2011 9:17 AM PDT up reply actions  

I was wondering about why exactly you did hate us so much.

Huh. Also, we are so not uninteresting. We have Ozzie. He’s about as uninteresting as a fireworks show on the 4th. Ahh well. We’ll see you guys again in late August.

by ScottyPods Ver2.0 on Jun 9, 2011 6:36 AM PDT reply actions  

I'm going to stop racking my brain about who bats where. For the longest time all I wanted was for Ichiro and Smoak to hit closer together in the lineup, and they're both around the Mendoza line since then.

We just need to be better hitters. Today I love Miguel Olivo for being a better hitter. Tomorrow, I’m sure it will be a new “hitter of the week”

Can’t we all just hit along?

follow @casetines

by Kenneth Arthur on Jun 9, 2011 8:27 AM PDT reply actions  

Offered for your statistical enlightenment

From Geoff Baker’s take on Olivo’s contribution to the offense:
“The offense, with a couple of rare exceptions, was failing to average even three runs per game.”

by GerryR on Jun 9, 2011 10:50 AM PDT reply actions  

Argh

It’s true though, if you don’t count the games where the Mariners have scored more than 3 runs in a game, the Mariners haven’t scored more than three runs in a game!

by Shmelix Shmernandez on Jun 9, 2011 1:52 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

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