Twins Stop Streaking Mariners, Awkwardly Brush Their Junk
Nobody ever wants to lose. If we had our druthers, the baseball season would be like that commercial where the Philadelphia Flyers go undefeated and everybody grows big bushy beards for good luck. If we got our way, the Mariners would go 162-0 and they'd all grow beards, because beards get interesting after a few months, and more importantly, losing blows. There is never any circumstance in which losing feels pleasant.
But while it sucks that the Mariners lost to the Twins tonight, I think it's probably good for us. It's healthy to lose. It's psychologically healthy to be reminded that your team is capable of defeat.
The Mariners had been playing well. Most recently, they were on a six-game winning streak, nearly pulling themselves to .500. Over the course of that streak, the pitching was unbelievable, the defense was good, and the offense was timely. The team still had problems, but the winning hid them away, and I think we were all guilty of getting caught up a little bit. Look how well the Mariners were playing! Why wouldn't they keep playing that well? The winning streak allowed us to savor the success but turn a rather blind eye to the weaknesses on the roster.
The loss jars our heads out of the clouds and brings us back to reality. The Mariners are 23-25. They're in a far better place than they used to be, sure, but everything isn't all sunshine and lollipops. Problems remain, some of them significant, and clutch hits and clutch pitches won't always be there to sweep them under the rug. With the winning streak snapped, we're able to look at things a little more objectively, as we can no longer lean on the irrational faith that it'll all work out in the end.
The Mariners had to lose again sometime. It would've been nice for them to get to .500 first, but that's just aesthetics. Now that they've lost, we can all go back to being real instead of subconsciously pretending that a team with a .640 OPS would end up running the table. There's no doubt that it feels better to be irrational than objective about a roster like this, but losses keep us sane. The hope should never be that the Mariners won't lose; it's that they won't lose often. Let this simply be one of the few.
I think a good, if specific, measure of psychological state would be the difference between win expectancy and assumed win expectancy. If you feel like your team has a better chance of winning in a given situation than the numbers say, you're optimistic. If you feel like your team has a worse chance of winning in a given situation than the numbers say, you're pessimistic. With the data you'd also be able to see degrees of optimism and pessimism and examine various triggers. It would be impossible, or just about impossible, to measure in reality, but it makes for a neat thought experiment.
Tonight, I was definitely optimistic. I was optimistic going into yesterday's game, I was more optimistic after yesterday's game, and tonight I was optimistic coming in. Doug Fister's no ace, but he's better than Nick Blackburn, and besides, Mariners and Twins. One of these teams seemed to be having everything go its way while the other team was just the opposite, and as little as that usually means in a predictive sense, it's impossible to ignore in your head.
I remained ultra confident into the later innings. I wasn't worried when the Twins went up 1-0. I wasn't worried when the Twins went up 2-0. When Miguel Olivo knotted things up with a homer, I don't know exactly how to describe what I felt, but it wasn't surprise, because even though I wasn't sure how the Mariners would come back, I was pretty sure that they would. Olivo simply wound up being the means.
When Olivo led off the seventh with a double, it felt like, once again, everything was coming together. This was how the Mariners would win on Tuesday. Adam Kennedy would drive Olivo home. If Kennedy couldn't do it, Carlos Peguero would drive Olivo home. If Peguero couldn't do it, Brendan Ryan would drive Olivo home. Somehow, some Mariner would come up with the go-ahead hit, and the team would be off on its way to its seventh straight victory.
And that's when everything started to turn. Nobody drove Olivo home. Then in the bottom half, the Twins immediately put together a rally and scored the go-ahead run on a balk. They added another on a double. And though Fister and Aaron Laffey stranded a runner on third, the score was still 4-2 all of a sudden, and when the M's went 1-2-3 in the next half-inning, a win just didn't feel in the cards. Ron Gardenhire didn't even open the door by going to his bullpen. He leaned on Blackburn the whole way, and Blackburn finished it off in the ninth with the M's managing nary a whimper.
The Mariners lost. It doesn't completely stop the momentum in its tracks. They lost with Doug Fister, and will hand the ball to Erik Bedard, Michael Pineda and Felix Hernandez in the next three games. They can get right back on the horse tomorrow. But a loss feels almost startling and unfamiliar after that run of success. I wonder what would happen if I re-ran this afternoon's poll right now. I wonder if the results would reflect a difference of more than one win. I'm guessing that they would. Brains.
Just a few short bullet holes, since wow Canucks:
- Doug Fister finished with a Matt Garza special: zero walks, six strikeouts, and nine hits. Half of his pitching line looks mediocre, and half of his pitching line looks dominant. As you'd expect, I care more about the latter than the former. Fister was abusing the strike zone all game, and he even missed nine bats, including six with breaking balls. And it's worth noting that, of the nine hits, one was an infield single, one fell out of Carlos Peguero's glove, and one was a tall blooper that dropped in front of Ichiro. Fister allowed his share of line drives, but tonight, he was more good than bad.
- After a long Alexi Casilla single, Fister had one out and runners on the corners in the bottom of the seventh when he was called for a balk on that fake-to-third-throw-to-first move. It was a very close and arguable call. Fister didn't do anything with his head, shoulders or hips, and was called for stepping too far forward on the mound (breaking the 45 degree angle rule). If you wanted, you could debate whether that balk call should have been made. But I think a bigger issue here is that Fister shouldn't have attempted that pickoff move anyway, since that pickoff move never works. The fake-to-third-throw-to-first move is pretty much always a waste of everyone's time.
The balk allowed the eventual winning run to score, which makes it look really bad, but since runners were on the corners, Denard Span probably would've driven that run in anyway later in the at bat. - The first two times he batted, Adam Kennedy pulled screamers to right that found their way into Jason Kubel's glove. This is how all Jason Kubel putouts should be described, because Kubel never seems to catch fly balls on purpose.
- With a home run and a double, Miguel Olivo's OPS now stands at .647, which isn't good, but is a lot better than the .393 it was a month ago. Olivo's been a good hitter over his last 100 trips to the plate, and it is worth remembering that this is a guy who slugged .444 over the previous five seasons. Chone Figgins, he's not. Olivo could help the lineup. He's been doing it for four weeks.
- Now that he didn't do anything heroic, one has to notice that Carlos Peguero has one walk, 14 strikeouts, and a .224 OBP. This despite the Torii Hunter sun ball being called a hit, and this despite making 45 of his 49 plate appearances against right-handed pitchers. Peguero is very interesting to watch and he can certainly hit the ball real hard, but let's not delude ourselves into thinking he actually has a clue. He swings at everything, except for the high 0-2 fastball on which he was punched out in the fifth. And his defense is bad.
- During Matt Tolbert's nine-pitch strikeout in the bottom of the first, he let the bat fly out of his hands twice after swinging. Someone's creeping up on Brendan Ryan on the leaderboard.
- A big moment in hindsight was Ichiro pulling up on Rene Rivera's bloop to right with one out in the bottom of the seventh. The bloop went for a single, and Rivera later scored the Twins' third run. I have always deferred to Ichiro on questionable decisions in the outfield and that remains my policy, but the ball appeared catchable on television, and a dive could've worked because, even in the event of a miss, the ball wasn't going to skip by to the wall. It was basically falling straight down. It would've stopped thereabouts.
Morning game tomorrow, with Erik Bedard and Brian Duensing. There are 15 games on the Wednesday MLB schedule. Eight of them will begin before noon Pacific. This is going to be one hell of a brunch reservation.
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Indeed. Canucks.
The Next Generation of the KC
by s0merand0mdude on May 24, 2011 11:05 PM PDT reply actions
Thinking about it,
I can never recall Ichiro diving for a ball. I’ve seen him climb the walls, make some fantastic running catches, or the very occasional sliding catch. But is he capable of making a diving catch? Has anyone ever seen him do this?
No. He never has
Ichiro has never dived/dove/dave. Me and my dad have been hating on Ichiro for years because of his pussy-ass outfield style. Granted, it may aid in his remarkable longevity, which is undeniable, but it’s so frustrating to watch shit like that ball dropping right in front of him
I usually post at a guitar forum so if what you see in here is spam, I got confused.
by tsunamijesus on May 24, 2011 11:55 PM PDT up reply actions
And he's from another country!
by twelveoutof10 on May 24, 2011 11:59 PM PDT up reply actions 4 recs
Mr. Baseball
if I remember Mr. Baseball correctly, the Japanese players never dive for the ball. Also, I didn’t think the ball looked catchable, only frustratingly close to catchable.
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing
On TV, it seemed like he may have had a shot at it, but the camera angle that shot was from was almost perfectly in line with the ball and Ichiro. I know that depth perception is a problem with a 2D perspective, so it probably looked like he was closer to it than he really was. If seen from a camera on the leftfield line, it may have looked a lot different. I’m not about to go second-guessing Ichiro, he’s always been a pretty smart defensive player, so I gotta assume that ball was uncatchable.
by nathaniel dawson on May 25, 2011 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions
I can't figure out which comment is baiting me
by Teej on May 25, 2011 12:05 AM PDT up reply actions 14 recs
Likewise...
Teams (for foreign blogs): Seahawks, Mariners, Huskies and Broncos. Yes, I recognize the contradiction; I was born in Denver.
by THolt on May 25, 2011 12:41 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Holy whoa
I can’t believe I typed any of that. I hadn’t slept in days before that post. There’s some of my sentiment in there, that I have never seen Ichiro dive and I had a rough time coming up because of the same approach, but man there are so many conditions to why I shouldn’t have said anything. I still haven’t slept and I realize that now. I’m gonna sleep now and see what wisdom I might gain. Sorry for being… the worst poster LL has ever had. I can’t find where to delete my account.
I usually post at a guitar forum so if what you see in here is spam, I got confused.
by tsunamijesus on May 26, 2011 1:00 AM PDT up reply actions
I guess crashing into the wall at full speed doesn't count for much in your book.
You’re right, though. I’d much rather Ichiro pull an Aaron Rowand and try his best to run through the outfield fence. That way we don’t have to put up with his self-centered ways anymore.
Wait a second is this actually the worst comment of all time?
Ichiro is a pussy because of how he plays from a guy whose name is Tsunami Jesus?
by seattlebruin on May 25, 2011 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
He was going to sign up as Ignorant Redneck
But John Rocker already took it.
by twelveoutof10 on May 25, 2011 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Its kind of like Jeff's post about Jose Bautista last week.
If Ichiro every played up to his full ability he would ruin the game for everyone else, which is why he refuses to dive for balls and sometimes swings at pitches that bounce in front of the plate, although sometimes he accidentally gets hits doing so (Ichrio’s only flaw is his inability to fail, even when he wants to).
by wetzelcoal on May 25, 2011 12:13 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Three years ago Larry Stone wrote an article in the Times
In which he asked Ichiro about this and some of the other criticisms (not crashing into walls, etc). As far as diving goes
Take, for example, the frequently heard refrain that Ichiro is reluctant to dive for balls. He has a ready response, followed by an eye-opening anecdote.That of course doesn’t address this case, where the ball might well have been catchable with a dive and Ichiro elected not to do so. But it does answer the “pussy-ass style” detractors (not that it’ll satisfy them).
“People who say that don’t understand that, in pretty much every case, you have a higher chance of getting the ball by running through it than by diving or sliding,” he said. “There are a few cases, if you get the timing exactly right, where sliding you have a better chance, but it’s very select.
”People who say that probably think that sliding into first base is faster than running through it. People who say those kind of things probably get more enjoyment from looking at those kind of plays, but they probably don’t know there’s a better chance to catch the ball [the other way].“
Nevertheless, toward the end of last season, Ichiro decided on a whim to do it the hard way.
”I actually slid and caught a ball, one which I could have caught without sliding," he said. “It was just a routine play for me, but I purposely slid and caught it just to see people’s reaction.
”What happened was, everyone came up to me and said, ‘Good play, nice play.’ On TV, they even had it as a ‘Web Gem.’ To me, it was pretty funny. That was proof to me of what I was saying."
by J0SER on May 25, 2011 3:19 AM PDT up reply actions 24 recs
I think, for me at least, it's a knee-jerk reaction
I got yelled at for years for not laying out enough in the OF, and when I finally started doing it, it became apparent to me that all the balls I had not caught before were now being caught. I’ve got good closing speed, if not quickness, and the dive really saved my ass on some bad breaks. It’s kind of like if a depression era hoarder saw some guy throwing away food all the time. It challenges everything I’ve been abused and marginalized into accepting as the right way to do things. I played on Willie’s club team, Dow, for a few years, and they cut you if you don’t play like Willie does now. Sorry if I sound ignorant for it.
I usually post at a guitar forum so if what you see in here is spam, I got confused.
by tsunamijesus on May 25, 2011 8:54 AM PDT up reply actions
Positioning also plays a big part
a lot of guys have to dive because they either take a bad route to a ball or get a late jump. Ichiro has neither of these problems.
Has Willie ever played for a winning team?
besides Arizona State?
by seattlebruin on May 25, 2011 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm starting to see a lot more Ichiro detractors.
Maybe it’s the funk he’s currently in bringing them out of the woodworks. Him appearing to take it easy on what looked to be a catchable pop fly certainly doesn’t help his image.
Not that any of this should matter. I know Ichiro’s value, and so do all of you. I also know that he won’t be in this funk all year long. It’d just be nice if he could break out of it soon so I know he’s not finally starting to fall off of the table.
No problem so small, no slump so short, no loss so insignificant
That we can’t find a way to blame the guy who gets us 5 WAR and 220 hits a year.
by fiftyone on May 24, 2011 11:25 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
Jeff Sullivan for ROOT Sports Announcer!
This is going to be one hell of a brunch reservation
by NWade on May 24, 2011 11:44 PM PDT reply actions 21 recs
I'm ready to see more of Mike Wilson.
And that makes me really sad. Not because I ever thought much of Peguero, just the idea that I’d rather see more of Mike Wilson than our other options.
Is it time to give up on Saunders?
If he could just be mediocre on offense, his defense would make him a solid player. But it seems like that’s asking too much.
by Rollo Tomasi on May 25, 2011 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions
He's only had two months or so to work on his new swing
so I think we can still afford to hope that he develops it and becomes a decent hitter
Not time to give up on him
Might be time to give him some more time in AAA. What with his struggles, it might do him some good to get back into a less challenging environment where he can work on his swing, focus on making good decisions at the plate, with at lot less pressure on his shoulders. Would save the M’s an extra year of service time with him as well, which could help down the road if he’s able to turn things around.
Difficult decision for the M’s to want to consider right now, as he’s the only decent CF backup to a guy that isn’t ready to be in the lineup day-in, day-out.
by nathaniel dawson on May 25, 2011 4:32 PM PDT up reply actions
I like the bullet hole on Fister
It’s good to note that while we lost and our offense kinda sucked, the pitching was still good. Because if our pitching starts to fail, I lose all confidence in this team. As long as we don’t give up more than 4-5 runs in a game, I can stay (relatively) confident.
It’s those games where we give up 7+ runs and our starters can’t make it through 5 innings where I start to get really scared.
Best thing about this loss
It prepares the M’s to climb over .500 on the backs of the Yankees, which would be doubly satisfying.
Peguero
Yeah, so he’s not so good. Of course, for us an 88 ops+ out of left field represents progress… Isnt there a blocked fourth outfielder out there somewhere who we can get?

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