Adam Moore Has A Torn Meniscus
The MRI results are back on Adam Moore, and they aren't good. After some whispers that he may not be badly injured, it turns out he's badly injured, having been diagnosed with a torn meniscus in his knee. He's going to need surgery, which I'm sure he'll have very soon, and he's going to be out for a long time. Drayer sets the tentative best-case scenario at 6-8 weeks, but it could very well end up being more than that. Or less than that. Who knows, really, in this crazy world of ours.
You'll recall that Moore's 2010 season was also interrupted by a knee injury, although that was a problem in his left knee, while this is a tear in the right one. On the one hand, it's good not to see a recurrence, but on the other hand, now we have a catcher who has injured both of his knees.
If there's a silver lining here, it's that the severity of Moore's injury is such that he can presumably be placed on the 60-day DL, freeing up a 40-man roster spot without the organization having to jettison someone from the minors. We'll probably see Josh Bard come up to serve as Olivo's backup and as the team's fifth switch-hitter, although Chris Gimenez is a possibility as well. Bard's the more likely of the two, though, because Gimenez's advantage is his versatility, which is less of a factor when you're only carrying two catchers.
The great tragedy here - aside from the fact that Moore got injured - is that Moore got injured going after a loose ball on a play on which the baserunner didn't advance. His meniscus didn't even go down a hero, like Tsuyoshi Nishioka's fibula did earlier today.
But that doesn't matter, and all we really care about is getting Moore healthy and back on the team at some point so that he can continue gaining big league experience, because these knee injuries of his have come at really bad times for his career, and you never like to see a player end up something less than he could've been because of his body. That's always just a real bummer.
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That really sucks,
I was hoping this was his year to live up to his potential.
"This space for rent"
I was kidding
This is slightly worse than Jeff Datz pulling his groin
by Dewey N on Apr 7, 2011 5:04 PM PDT up reply actions 9 recs
Both my father and my younger brother have had meniscus tears.
Neither has ever fully recovered. It could just be a genetic weakness on my father’s side of the family (my knees aren’t so hot either, sometimes…), but the surgery to correct was only part of the battle. The recovery took more than eight weeks and that was before they could use them to 100% strength. Before that, they couldn’t do any kind of strenuous activity that would allow a baseball player to stay in shape.
Moore’s going to be out a while.
Fans are typically idiots.
by The Typical Idiot Fan on Apr 7, 2011 4:40 PM PDT reply actions
Crap.
Moore was one reason I was excited about this season. If we weren’t going to compete, at least we could have watched a promising young talent to develop.
Though as JonBBT says above, he has come back from this before, so I guess there could be reason to hope.
Really?
Everyone I know that has torn their meniscus has recovered very quickly. I had one friend who was back playing softball after a month. Granted, that isn’t the same as playing catcher in MLB, but I thought this was a MUCH less serious injury than an ACL or an MCL, with a typically 100% recovery rate.
"This space for rent"
The surgery...
…consists of shaving off the part of the meniscus that might lock up your knee. It never actually heals to 100%, just doesn’t get in the way. Even after surgery it might lock up from time to time. I have to shove mine into place every now and then.
by noeffortatall on Apr 7, 2011 4:55 PM PDT up reply actions
In my case
they had to take out a fair bit of the meniscus; on the bright side, I’ve never had it lock since.
by The Ancient Mariner on Apr 7, 2011 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions
There are actually a couple of different surgeries they can do
They can do a repair or a removal. Repairs tend to have a 50% success rate and removals usually are just a stopgap to prevent more tearing. I highly doubt they’ll do a repair on an active professional athlete.
by Smegmalicious on Apr 7, 2011 5:25 PM PDT up reply actions
It depends on the tear
where the meniscus is torn, how badly, etc. This could be minor, without any long-term consequences once the knee heals from the surgery, or it could leave the knee permanently weaker or looser. At this point, it’s beyond us to know.
by The Ancient Mariner on Apr 7, 2011 5:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Mark Grudzielanek
Tore his meniscus at the start of spring training a few years and he was in the lineup on Opening Day.
This is awful news.
I’m currently rehabbing from a tibial spine fracture, which is in many ways a lot like an ACL tear – it just means the piece of bone connecting to ACL snapped under the load before the ACL did. As a result, I’ve been doing a lot of research on the various types of knee injuries and what the recoveries look like.
Just like Typical Idiot Fan says, people who tear their meniscii often don’t get back to complete 100% function, and the rehab and the recovery are much more difficult than the surgery itself. Lots of muscle simply turns itself off after the surgery and after any immobilization. The initial battle is to simply regain a functional range of motion and to retrain the muscles to work. Gaining enough stability and strength to even walk normally takes weeks. I’m five weeks post-surgery on an injury and surgery that by all accounts is less traumatic, but with a similar rehab arc, and I can only bend my knee 90 degrees, with cold-sweat-producing pain when I do it. I can’t even imagine getting into a catching stance. Obviously Adam is young, a professional athlete, and has some highly focused supervision, so long-term he’ll probably be fine, but at least based on what I’ve learned, this is going to take some time for him to get right. Hopefully I’m blinded by my own anecdote and this will be much less serious than I thought.
But if not … goddamn it. And goddamn you, Scrappy and Facepalm Richie Sexson, for all that you represent.
I'm always amazed...
at how quickly athletes recover from ACL/Meniscus tears. I have hope that Adam will work his ass off and get back out there.
by noeffortatall on Apr 7, 2011 4:58 PM PDT up reply actions
You can recover from a partial Meniscus removal in 3 weeks
That’s probably what he’ll have done.
by Smegmalicious on Apr 7, 2011 5:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Meniscus injuries aren't always awful.
Brandon Roy played basketball at a high level after three meniscus surgeries, though he did tear what remained of his right meniscus last spring and hasn’t recovered at all.
There’s two ways to operate on it: to remove, or to repair. From what I understand, removal is the usual solution, but a 6-8 week timeline makes me wonder if they’re attempting to repair it. Either way, the meniscus is a buffer. Without it, the cartilage begins to wear, which can eventually result in bone-on-bone, making the knee arthritic. That’s a pretty far way off, and it’s generally a partial removal anyway. Multiple tears of the same meniscus is a big issue.
Here’s a good breakdown of long-term meniscus impact.
If it's sufficiently intact, they'll repair it
since we don’t currently have any good way to replace a meniscus; but how often that’s possible, I’m not certain.
by The Ancient Mariner on Apr 7, 2011 5:20 PM PDT up reply actions
They replace it with a cadaver pull, and they don't work well.
The repairs don’t work on the Meniscus very well because there is very little blood flow to the Meniscus as a whole and usually the part that tears has next to none. Also repairs have a much lower success rate.
Unless it’s horrific I doubt they’d do a repair or replacement on a guy who is going to try to catch anytime soon.
by Smegmalicious on Apr 7, 2011 5:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Like I said, there's no good way to replace the thing
which I think is the only reason they even try repairs. I know what you’re saying about the success rate on repairs, but the flip side is that if the tear’s in the wrong place, simply removing the damaged portion could make the knee more likely to lock up when standing from a crouched position — which of course is something catchers tend to do every once in a while. Given the circumstances of the injury, though, I’d bet there’s too much trauma to the meniscus to make a repair attempt viable, whatever the docs might prefer to do.
by The Ancient Mariner on Apr 7, 2011 5:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Usually locking is caused by a folded portion of cartilidge.
Unless I’m misremembering that usually happens on the inner portion of the cartilage where the blood flow is worse and where it’s easier just to snip out the offending part. I’m hoping that’s what’s wrong here, but none of us has access to his MRI or has seen it so who knows.
by Smegmalicious on Apr 7, 2011 5:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Damn your clever captions that make me laugh at the most inopportune times
by Robby The Kid on Apr 7, 2011 5:03 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Oh, and here I thought it was just me. Now I don't have to feel horrible by myself!
Work hard, play harder, rest easy.
I'M FUCKING TIRED OF MENISCUS TEARS! ARRRRGH!
"I can't recommend highly enough going back and watching old clips of Jose Lopez." -Jeff Sullivan
I've had a couple of Meniscus surgeries and the results and recovery time can vary widely.
First let me say I’m not a doctor, nor a professional athlete, but I did a TON of research on this and I was a high level amateur when this happened to me.
I had a really bad set of tears in my Meniscus. I got them while doing roadwork when I was boxing competitively and was able to continue boxing (and making them worse) for some time before my knee started locking. I was unable to bend my knee past 90 degrees until some months after the second surgery.
The first surgery I had was a Meniscus repair and partial removal. This is where they go in, try to mend what can be mended and remove any loose bodies or flaps that need to be removed. This surgery was more in the months range or recovery because you have to give the mend time to catch. This is also a fairly low success rate surgery (50%) because of the paucity of blood flow to the Meniscus in general, and specifically to certain parts of it. In my case I was not one of the success stories even with extensive rehab and conditioning. What followed was a long long series of rehabs, drainings and frustration.
Nine months after the first surgery I had the second which was a partial removal. This is just a shaving down of loose Meniscus, much like trimming your fingernails or a hangnail, only inside your knee. I literally walked out of the hospital after this surgery, was able to resume most activities within 3 weeks and was boxing in just over a month.
Now like I said, I’m no professional athlete, let alone a catcher who has to squat all day, nor am I a doctor, but I’d bet they go with a removal here. You have a lot of Meniscus to play with, the recovery time and surgery damage isn’t as bad and the success rate is better. That being said if he has something horrific or something that can be repaired they could go for the repair, but that would probably take a lot longer to heal and may not work.
Also surgery for professional athletes is more advanced than what I had access too, though my doctor had personally performed surgery on Roger Clemens in the past. They could get around some of the blood flow issues by perhaps injecting blood like they did with A-rod’s hip labrum, or some other surgical magic that costs lots of money and you and I don’t have access to.
I think this is unlikely to impact Moore’s long term future as a catcher much, and it shouldn’t affect him as an athlete in general unless its very very bad and they have to remove a lot of tissue. Anyway, that’s the two cents of someone who has been through it and studied it intensely at the time.
A meniscus tear?
Come on, Adam. Shake it off. I mean, Olivo’s starting because he passed a kidney stone and still caught the next inning.
M's fan in the Bay, soon to be LA SanFranPreps
So absurd.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
Based on this and the Guti post
94% of the population suffers from weak stomachs and bad knees. And we thought obesity was a problem.
I know catchers develop late but he'll be 28 next year still with major questions to answer about whether he can cut it.
I feel bad for the guy. He didn’t get the starting job but he was going to get enough playing time to show whether he had potential in the future post-Olivo years. I think after last year we all definitely had some serious doubts about his potential but I think we were looking forward to his potential upside to turn into a decent catcher.
You know its bad news when
the silver lining is that a player’s injury is SO sever that they’ll be out for at least two months.
Brandon Roy had Meniscus surgery, and played in the playoffs only 2 weeks later. It might not be the worse thing.
"I can't recommend highly enough going back and watching old clips of Jose Lopez." -Jeff Sullivan
It's true. It might be.
"I can't recommend highly enough going back and watching old clips of Jose Lopez." -Jeff Sullivan
And Brandon Roy is not nearly the same player he was
Catching is a bit hard on the knees
Larry Bernandez.
He isn't the same after his fourth or fifth meniscus surgery though.
The first couple were fine.
"I can't recommend highly enough going back and watching old clips of Jose Lopez." -Jeff Sullivan
My grandma tore her meniscus
a few years later, she died.
by Bearskin Rugburn on Apr 8, 2011 5:30 AM PDT up reply actions
Poor Adam Moore.
"I can't recommend highly enough going back and watching old clips of Jose Lopez." -Jeff Sullivan
I'm most sad because he had a really nice Spring. I thought he was going to be awesome this year.
"I can't recommend highly enough going back and watching old clips of Jose Lopez." -Jeff Sullivan
On the bright side
Maybe Miguel Olivo will retire as a Mariner.
Everyone was so down on picking up Olivo
Doesn’t seem so bad now.
by Shmelix Shmernandez on Apr 7, 2011 9:54 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Not saying he will be great
But it’s nice to have a veteran catcher to fall back on when something like this happens instead of trotting out Giminez and Bard every single day.
by Shmelix Shmernandez on Apr 8, 2011 7:48 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Agreed. One person starts ragging on Olivo then everyone else decides they want to as well.
He’s been one of our best hitters so far and has looked good behind the plate as well. I’m having a hard time seeing why everyone is so “upset” with him being on the team.
Menisci tears are not the end of the world
Smegmalicious has a good take above, from an athlete’s perspective, and a few others have commented on miscellaneous issues associated with menisci tears. For a bit more detail:
Ultimately, the important factors to consider are
1) arthroscopy is a minimally-invasive procedure that does not have significant recovery time in and of itself;
2) menisci repairs are very uncommon and require extended recovery times because “repair” implies that the goal is to fuse the tear – and cartilage fuses very slowly (if at all) and usually only in the unlikely event that the tear occurred in the region supplied by blood
3) in most cases, tears are simply removed so that edges don’t touch and are smooth
4) lateral and medial menisci are simply buffers or cushions between the articular cartilage that coats the joints of the femur and tibia and prevents that cartilage from directly rubbing together (directly rubbing together would cause the condition of “osteoarthritis” – or “wear and tear” of the articular cartilage). Symptoms from missing menisci are actually symptoms caused by lesions in the articular cartilage – ranging in severity from Grade I to Grade IV (exposed bone). Grade IV lesions are currently treated in athletes using microfracture surgery – a technique to regrow articular cartilage (but the cartilage is a different type – fibrous in nature). Eventually, Moore will be at risk for osteoarthritis in the knee and it will affect his ability to catch effectively. A position change is in his near future (1-3 years).
5) Experimental procedures such as Platelet Rich Plasma is being used to treat extreme cases like Brandon Roy – who ostensibly is missing his entire lateral menisci in both knees. PRP theoretically can be used to regrow menisci – if there is something there to act as a scaffold for new tissue growth (some of the original menisci would have to remain) – and if the PRP is spiked with stem cells. PRP with stem cells was not used on Roy – but PRP without stem cells likely intended to affect repair to Grade 1 I lesions of the articular cartilage. Other procedures such as menisci transplants (cadaver sources) are not used on athletes. Such transplants will not hold up to the rigors of professional sports – especially catching.
Law of Logical Argument
Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
Captain Peppernuts
Law of Logical Argument
Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
by blacknoiseNW on Apr 8, 2011 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions
It wasn't my intention to belittle the integrity of what you said
It’s, just, Adam Moore.
by Captain Peppernuts on Apr 9, 2011 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions

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