Chris Ray, Josh Lueke Bully Innocent Little Game, Beat It Senseless
Coming into the season, the Mariners had an outside shot at fringe contention if several things went their way, but more realistically, 2011 was likely to be a transition year, and we've known for a while that the most important thing to observe in the organization is the development of young talents like Justin Smoak, Michael Pineda, Dustin Ackley, and Michael Saunders, among a few others. Ultimately, what we really want from 2011 is for the young guys to take a step forward so we can set our eyes on a promising 2012, and anything else is gravy.
So after 17 games, I guess in a way you could say: mission accomplished, so far. Justin Smoak hit another home run tonight and has an OPS around .900. Michael Pineda has strung together three excellent starts against big league competition. Michael Saunders has had some promising at bats. Dustin Ackley is starting to show some power.
By and large, the prospects have made good showings. It's everybody else who's been a disaster.
Obviously, there are some exceptions. Josh Lueke and Tom Wilhelmsen, for example, have been bad, while vets like Jason Vargas and Milton Bradley have been good. But, overall, we've gotten what we wished for. Smoak and Pineda look terrific, and seem destined to be quality players for a very long time. Yet the Mariners are still just 5-12, because many of the players around them have been crap.
The development is the most important thing, and I'd much rather see Smoak and Pineda succeed while Chone Figgins and Jack Cust suck than the other way around, but it sure does seem mighty early in a baseball season to be tuning in simply to watch a few individual players. It's April 18th, and already I'm at the point where I'm fine with a loss provided the right players did the right things. That's sick. It's probably healthy, considering, but it's also sick. Even the 2010 edition made it to the end of the month.
This was kind of the opposite of most Mariners games, in that, instead of falling behind early and spending the rest of the game battling back, the Mariners took a narrow lead into the sixth and farted it away. It was basically the exact same game as last Wednesday, right down to the starting pitcher. Jason Vargas made a quality start. Milton Bradley helped the M's take a 2-1 lead. Then Chris Ray and Josh Lueke spotted the little potential win by the swing set, chased it across the playground, cornered it, beat it with sticks until it stopped moving, and then continued beating it with sticks until it stopped whimpering. Ray and Lueke, such bullies.
It's evident by now that both of these guys have big problems, after coming in with high hopes. We were the ones who had high hopes for Lueke, while it was the coaching staff that had high hopes for Ray, but they've both just been lousy. Lueke has thrown a few quality breaking balls, but his command and velocity have gone missing. And Ray is now up to 28 batters faced on the year, with two walks, one strikeout, and four extra-base hits. In their limited samples, they both have ERAs in the mid-teens.
Lueke is troubling, because here's a young guy who breezed through the minors with a mid-90s fastball and some strong offspeed offerings, and now his fastball is down and his location is inconsistent. Lueke's average fastball tonight was 91.5 miles per hour. Something's wrong, but nobody's quite sure what it is, and as a result Lueke is a shell of himself.
Ray is less troubling, if only because he's not being counted on to be a part of the future, but he's been a win probability nightmare, and it's hard to watch him go out there knowing full well that he's just about out of a job. Ray landed with the Mariners on a minor league contract. For a few weeks, now, he's been a terrible reliever, and he isn't missing bats. If he keeps this up, who's going to give him his next opportunity? The only thing keeping Ray from being an automatic DFA candidate upon David Aardsma's return is that Lueke and Wilhelmsen have also been bad, but at this rate Ray'll be out of a job soon one way or another.
The Mariners' bullpen had promise coming into the year, but a lot of that promise was built on the quality of Lueke, Ray, and Wilhelmsen's stuff, and they haven't pitched up to it. Two of those guys just burned us again, and the Mariners lost by five. With Lueke, the answer may be getting him some rest, or perhaps a medical evaluation. And with Ray, it's looking more and more like those bags of soil Safeco gave away tonight could be used to bury his career. It's a bummer for him, but I don't know Chris Ray the person. I only know Chris Ray the pitcher, and Chris Ray the pitcher makes me scratch my own corneas.
Tonight's assortment of bullet holes:
- I don't know if there's even a point to talking about Jason Vargas' performance since it was basically identical to so many of his other performances. He threw a lot of changeups, he got some weak contact, he got some harder contact, and he wound up with six innings. There's something to be said for consistency and reliability, but boy is it ever dull to write about.
So I'll just take this opportunity to touch on the curveball that Vargas talked about developing during the spring. Vargas threw 11 of them tonight, and is up to 26 on the year, making up 7% of his total pitch count. 15 of his curves have been strikes, and one of them has been cut on and missed. I just realized that you can't really do anything with a sample size of 26 pitches, so, there you go. Jason Vargas' curveball, everybody. - In the top of the first inning, Ryan Raburn hit a foul pop-up that became the first ball in Safeco Field history to strike the roof (or a support beam of the roof). While it was up there, the ball dislodged Miguel Olivo's swing rate.
- I don't think there's any denying that Chone Figgins has looked more comfortable at third base than second, but I've already lost track of how many hot shots have gotten right by him and wound up in left. I understand that righties can pull some really hard grounders that take some really wicked hops. These are not easy plays to make. But you'd figure that Figgins would eventually make one of them. I want to give him the benefit of the doubt just because I don't actually enjoy being negative all the time, but he could really use a Web Gem or two in the coming days.
- Rick Rizzs was talking about the hit that snapped Miguel Olivo's protracted 0-fer slump when he said that Olivo could "get that hit and start all over." I'm pretty sure that's the exact opposite of what everybody wants.
- Aside from a fielding adventure that allowed the Tigers to tie the game up in the sixth, this was a big night for Milton Bradley. He ran out an infield single, he drew a pair of walks, and in the bottom of the third inning, he took a 2-1 changeup from Max Scherzer way out to center field for his second home run of the year. Sometimes, I come away a little dissatisfied with cheap home runs down the line, but there are no cheap home runs to Safeco's center field. Bradley's eye is there. As shown tonight, his power is there. And his contact rate is up from where it was last season. All the lights in Milton Bradley's little neighborhood are green.
- The Mariners' other home run - their second of two home runs! - was Smoak's in the eighth off Daniel Schlereth. There was nothing especially remarkable about Smoak's dinger except that he hit it batting right-handed, and it cleared the godawful power alley. The Mariners haven't had a player post a .900 OPS since Richie Sexson did it in 2005. That's setting the bar a little high for Smoak given that he's only 24 years old, but he could do it. He's shown all the necessary talent.
- During tonight's Building To The Future segment, the broadcast highlighted Carlos Peguero, and Jay Buhner remarked that Peguero "can carry the mail." The New Dickson Baseball Dictionary traces this expression back to 1937 and says that it means a guy is fast, but I think it's better applied to a guy like Chris Ray, because Chris Ray's next job will be as a mailman.
- When the Mariners signed Jack Cust, they did so hoping that the clear downward trend in his power numbers would reverse itself given regular playing time in a lefty-friendly environment. The more I watch him, though, the less convinced I am that he has much of anything left in the tank. Discipline aside, he's off to an absolutely miserable start, and the one name that I can't shake from my mind is Brad Wilkerson. By this time next year, Cust might be out of baseball completely.
- Said the Root Sports voiceover guy:
It took 16 games for the Root Sports voiceover guy to start being honest with the audience. "Hey, this team sucked, but hopefully they won't suck anymore." If you think about it, he's made a remarkably swift adjustment to understanding what it's like to root for the Mariners. All that's left is for him to drop the second half of that sentence.
So the road trip didn't go how we wanted, yeah, but I'm thinking this seven-game homestand is the perfect time to right the ship. - The most uncomfortable commercial of the
dayever was a Norelco spot featuring Nick Swisher shaving his face with an electric razor, and Jonathan Papelbon shaving his face with an electric razor. The two share a mutual love of their Norelco electric razors, but they began to argue when Swisher said he likes to shave in the shower, while Papelbon prefers to shave dry. The commercial cut off there, with the line "watch the debate get personal at greatshavedebate.com." It was like one of those GoDaddy ads except instead of trying to get me to visit their website by luring me with half-naked women, they're trying to get me to visit their website by luring me with two dudes in the bathroom.
Phil Coke and Doug Fister tomorrow at 7:10. When I'm feeling down on my baseball team, nothing makes me more excited to tune in than the promise of 5.2 innings of Doug Fister.
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Chris Ray the Mailman and Josh Wilson the Paperboy
Sounds like a real promising Superhero & Sidekick duo if I’ve ever heard one
"Evil McBadGuy has covered all the houses in America with tarps so we don't know where to deliver things! To the Public Servicemobile!"
by Dewey N on Apr 19, 2011 1:06 AM PDT up reply actions 15 recs
Both, really
but more Irish. Mc is just anglicized Mac and we have many more anglicized Irish than Scots
re: Peguero
Buhner could be referring to the fact that Peguero has been playing center lately, which is as confusing to me as it is to everyone else reading at present. Of course, that would mean Buhner knew that, which I’m not really betting on.
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors
He is, visually, the least likely CF I've ever seen.
Mike Wilson’s looks like Ichiro in comparison.
It's a good thing that Mike Wilson has been hurt because that means I don't have to answer questions about him.
Except people are going to ask why he’s hurt soon enough. Oh nooooooooooo…………
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors
Wait, Mike Wilson is hurt again?
"I can't recommend highly enough going back and watching old clips of Jose Lopez." -Jeff Sullivan
It's an odd year, so yes.
Sore left shoulder, should be back soonish.
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors
by JY on Apr 19, 2011 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Now that we're talking about Mike Wilson, why hasn't he gotten a shot with the team yet?
"I can't recommend highly enough going back and watching old clips of Jose Lopez." -Jeff Sullivan
I noticed something recently!

Uncanny.
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors
by JY on Apr 19, 2011 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Ooooh, good call.
Peguero edges him out based on body type, but Thomas might win on dissimilarity from the league average in 1983.
Peguero’s raw incongruity score is higher, but it’s really, really close in incongruity+.
Looks like we traded the wrong third baseman to the Rockies.
Jose Lopez is better at hitting and defense, and is younger and cheaper than Chone!
"I can't recommend highly enough going back and watching old clips of Jose Lopez." -Jeff Sullivan
And way way more watchable.
"I can't recommend highly enough going back and watching old clips of Jose Lopez." -Jeff Sullivan
Errr...cheaper anyway
Chone is looking to go for the half Mendoza line.
Watching Jose is not exactly a lot of fun either. Maybe we should bring up Tui
by New England Fan on Apr 19, 2011 8:02 AM PDT up reply actions
Tui is officially not a 3B anymore.
Plays 1B/DH. Liddi’s the 3B starter in AAA.
At least Lopez hit Dingers!
"I can't recommend highly enough going back and watching old clips of Jose Lopez." -Jeff Sullivan
Do you really think Lopez is better at 3B?
He handled it alright last year, but Figgins has a pretty long track record as a top defender.
by Bearskin Rugburn on Apr 19, 2011 8:06 AM PDT up reply actions
Yes. Chone has looked like boners.
"I can't recommend highly enough going back and watching old clips of Jose Lopez." -Jeff Sullivan
A grouping of erect penises would be terrible defensively
by lemonverbena on Apr 19, 2011 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
That's what I'm saying!
"I can't recommend highly enough going back and watching old clips of Jose Lopez." -Jeff Sullivan
Doug Fister = Mr Excitement
Actually, last year for a few weeks, in a wacky way he almost was. In that he had so little margin for error, his control had to be so good to get by with his repertoire of “stuff,” yet he kept going out there and skating on thin ice. Is he really any better than David Pauley? I don’t know. I’m unthrilled by now.
Good luck to Franklin with the Mayo Clinic gastroenterologists.
ignacio
ROOT guy is loosing his edge.
By August, he’s going to be like “Kick-start your work week by watching the Mariners take on the Rangers tomorrow night at 5:00pm. Justin Smoak, Dustin Ackley, Felix Hernandez, Chaz Roe…..hey, these guys are alright!”
"Dustin Ackley is starting to heat up. Mariners; White Sox; tomorrow at 7:00."
...and now I'm here
By August, he'll be saying
“Tune in tomorrow for another Felix Hernandez start. it’s hot outside, you have AC in your house, why leave?”
Pfffft no one in Seattle has AC
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors
"Break out the cheap vodka, there's another M's game on the telly tomorrow night."
I am going to come into your house at night and rec up the place.
I went into this season with unrealistically high hopes for Smoak, and he is surpassing them.
Even if he doesn’t keep it up, he’s the guy I want to see at the plate in any situation with runners on. I actually feel confidence that we will accomplish something when he’s at the plate…it’s been awhile since I’ve felt that.
by BrettJMiller on Apr 19, 2011 1:44 AM PDT reply actions 7 recs
Out of curiousity, what WERE your expectations?
We don’t have the community projections anymore, so I’m curious to see what LL people projected for Smoak.
Maybe like .260/.350/.450 or so, with a lot of walks, 20-ish HRs... And that's still very possible...but for now, wheeeee
by BrettJMiller on Apr 19, 2011 8:58 AM PDT up reply actions
OK, cool - that's basically right where his Fangraphs 'fan projection' has him
Waaay better than CAIRO/PECOTA/MARCEL, not fanboy crazy talk Pujolsian projection either.
Did anyone project something substantially different?* Better/worse?
- - doesn’t have to be any sort of formal projection. Gut feeling, hunch, guesses work too.
I sort of figured .280/.400/.500 as his ceiling
But I certainly didn’t think he’d be hitting it this year.
by Bearskin Rugburn on Apr 19, 2011 9:18 AM PDT up reply actions
There aren't many reasons to watch the M's...
other than being a, you know, fan or something.
Smoak, however, is a good reason. Smoak, Bradley, Pineda… and Ackley soon
Ichiro and Felix I guess. I so want them to really turn on the burners, and heat up.
What's crazy is that even after his home run tonight, Smoak's HR/FB this year (10.5%) is still lower than last year (12.7%)
Not sure what’s reasonable to expect from him going forward but it’s cool to see him succeed even without being super powerful. Sure makes you think he can improve on his power numbers (I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect his average and OBP to stay this high though).
Oh and Hit tracker says Milton's HR was 425 feet and Smoak's was 413
First Mariners homers of the year over 400 feet!
HR/FB might be forced down by park.
As Matthew mentions above, there was a double off the very top of the left field fence.
M's fan in the Bay, soon to be LA SanFranPreps
by perfectstrat on Apr 19, 2011 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions
Don't forget that shot last week in KC.
That was into the wind and hit to left might have carried out.
No matter where you go, there you are.
Not watching the games
I dont get to watch the games because i am in iraq, but when i look at the win chart, I always look to see how Smoak and/or Pineda fared. Sad that a paragraph has summed up my thoughts since opening day.
It was all just a dream...
by MasinMud on Apr 19, 2011 2:45 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Thank you,
I was trying to remember who Jack Cust was reminding me of..
the one name that I can’t shake from my mind is Brad Wilkerson
So the question is: how long does the team keep Cust around?
Until they have someone to take his spot I imagine they'll play him less and less if he doesn't improve
Bradley has been awful in the field, and with his good start we are now in a position where we need to protect his health
Wilkerson only got 19 games from us in 2008
Though baseball-reference seems to think we game him 3 Million. So if we’re into Cust for less money… He’s already had 15.
by ambrosia2112 on Apr 19, 2011 9:48 AM PDT up reply actions
Chris Ray will be hitting up kids on the playground for their lunch money sooner rather than later.
Free Scott Sizemore*!
*with purchase of a Scott Sizemore of equal or lesser value.
"they're trying to get me to visit their website by luring me with two dudes in the bathroom."
and not even two dudes one might want to see standing around debating the merits of Norelco.
Needs more Guti
To improve, they should try to become the musical southern cal of the west. - bRuins Nation poster on the Stanford band.
by bluemax on Apr 19, 2011 9:34 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I know it's too early to party but Vargas is getting way, way more grounders than ever before
96BF isn’t a lot, but GB rate is one of the first things to stabilize for a pitcher, so it’s something to keep an eye on. Vargas has developed far better than I dared to hope when he was first brought over here.
by Bearskin Rugburn on Apr 19, 2011 8:04 AM PDT reply actions
The official line is 150BF, so two or three more starts
although he has been so consistent in his career I’d wait even longer before calling it a real change. For now it’s just something exciting to watch on a team hard up for exciting things to watch.
by Bearskin Rugburn on Apr 19, 2011 9:16 AM PDT up reply actions
After a loss?

M's fan in the Bay, soon to be LA SanFranPreps
by perfectstrat on Apr 19, 2011 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh hey would you look at that
Vargas!
by Jeff Sullivan on Apr 19, 2011 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm a fan.
"I can't recommend highly enough going back and watching old clips of Jose Lopez." -Jeff Sullivan
Not the competition factor either
Detroit’s the least GB team in baseball, Toronto the 4th least. Oakland and Cleveland more middle the pack
He also has a 7.15 K/9, a 1.95 BB/9 and a 2.57 FIP.
Jason Vargas is pitching like 2009 Cliff Lee.
by JLC on Apr 19, 2011 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Why do we use a decimal point for thirds of an inning
As a practicing statistican, it offends me.
by New England Fan on Apr 19, 2011 8:12 AM PDT reply actions 2 recs
I could be out of my mind
But I swear that “news papers” used to show IP in proper fractions.
by lemonverbena on Apr 19, 2011 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions
I thought so too
If it were really base 3, then a baseball game would be 100 innings, and we’d have the 21st inning stretch.
by New England Fan on Apr 19, 2011 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions
It's been a weird evolution
Proper fractions, then some people used decimals (X.3, X.7) and now the .1, .2 thing is on the rise. Doesn’t particularly bother me, but it’s weird that people used “proper” decimals for such a short period of time.
It is kind of lazy but I understand the motivation
Shortcut characters like ÂĽ aren’t readily available (that symbol is called “Vulgar Fraction” in Word). Writing out 2/3 is clunky and easily confused for something else.
by lemonverbena on Apr 19, 2011 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions
I've been a little surprised Wedge hasn't tried to move the lineup around at all.
He has to be as frustrated as we are that we’ve got guys batting >.150 stuck between guys hitting decently. I would’ve thought he would try to move Cust or Figgins down in the order, or at least cluster the hot-hitting guys together so we can string some good hitters in a row.
Seems like every time guys get on, I’m staring at Cust hitting .173.
I am going to come into your house at night and rec up the place.
He still has the team's 5th best OBP among starters
and you’re not putting Brendan Ryan in the cleanup spot
I see your point, but he DID put Kennedy in cleanup once.
Maybe I should hold my tongue, since I countered my own argument.
I am going to come into your house at night and rec up the place.
Gameplan
From what I can tell, he doesn’t want to move around people who ARE hitting so he’s likely to rest the ones who aren’t. This explains Adam Kennedy batting cleanup in place of Jack Cust and Jack Wilson batting 2nd in place of Chone Figgins when Figgins sat nursing an injury.
Given his tenancies to assigning roles (at least right now), Wedge appears to be a big fan of stability.
Figgins responded poorly to being moved in the order if I remember right
It may be too early for Wedge to test the players’ loyalty.
by Bearskin Rugburn on Apr 19, 2011 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions
Figgins responds poorly to being asked to play baseball
He of the 27 OPS+. But yeah, if that’s Wedge’s motivation I understand.
I am going to come into your house at night and rec up the place.
At first the Old Spice ads
starring Chandler Bing’s dad used to confuse me. Then someone explained that gay men have a lot of disposible income. Some ads are literally, totally gay. On purpose.
Smoak after the recall in 2010:
.340/.421/.580
Smoak 2011:
.291/.403/.491
Total
.314/.413/.533
It’s hard to contain my optimism
by Poochie on Apr 19, 2011 10:36 AM PDT reply actions 3 recs
Try eating a lot so that your gravity increases
by Matthew on Apr 19, 2011 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions 7 recs
Stay grounded?
I don't want to achieve immortality through my work... I want to achieve it through not dying.
by Terminator X on Apr 19, 2011 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions
It may be that he meant to increase Poochie's gravity in an attempt to increase the pulling force he has.
Thus, with Poochie in left or right, whichever the pull side for Smoak’s at bat, he will be more likely to hit a homerun. Mathew may be simply telling Poochie to increase his gravity so that his uncontrollable optimism will be more likely to pan out.
by Robby The Kid on Apr 19, 2011 11:40 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Get fatter and your optimism won't float away as easy due to increased gravity.
"I can't recommend highly enough going back and watching old clips of Jose Lopez." -Jeff Sullivan
Then all your optimism would get sucked to the planet at a much higher rate!
You need to be more massive, not more weighty!
"I can't recommend highly enough going back and watching old clips of Jose Lopez." -Jeff Sullivan

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