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Gabe Gross Added To Pile; Name Describes Pile

Sure enough, the Mariners continue to stay active in handing out minor league contracts to anyone they see walking down the street from their third-story office. The latest guy to sign on is Gabe Gross, who I would refer to as the Gabe Gross of Brewers fame had he built up any fame at all.

Gross, like the others, receives an invitation to Spring Training. As a 31-year-old lefty-hitting outfielder, he joins Ryan Langerhans and Jody Gerut as 30+ year-old lefty-hitting outfielders on minor league contracts trying to break camp with the team. With Ichiro, Franklin Gutierrez, Michael Saunders, and (for now) Milton Bradley in front of them, their odds are long, but the Mariners are all about creating competition this time around, and based on the number of people invited to camp, by that they mean competition for everything, including food and locker room space. If too many players want to participate in a Spring Training game at another complex, they'll literally have to fight for a seat on the bus.

Gross came up with the Blue Jays and has spent time with the Brewers, Rays, and - most recently - the A's. He's built up a strong defensive reputation which is supported by the advanced metrics, and he's capable of playing all three positions. That's the good news. The bad news is that he hasn't really hit since 2006, putting up a .234/.323/.380 batting line over his last 1200 trips to the plate. He can draw a walk, and he can hit the ball out of the yard, but he doesn't do either often enough to make himself a contributor, and his 2010 campaign with Oakland was absolutely miserable.

But, we'll see what he can do, since that's what ST is all about. He had his best years with Milwaukee, which makes him extra appealing to Jack Zduriencik, and since then he's gotten opportunities from a pair of smart organizations, so he's not without his upside. As always, there isn't a whole lot of risk, here. Maybe in the end he just ends up helping the Rainiers, which is never a bad thing.

Your obligatory Gabe Gross fun fact is that he was selected 15th overall in the 2001 draft, two picks after Casey Kotchman, and three picks before Aaron Heilman. So the Mariners have wound up with three of the top 18 picks from that year. That's one way for an organization to salvage a first round in which its own selection was Michael Garciaparra.

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It's official.

Pete Carroll is running the Mariners.

GET OFF ME!!!

by the other side on Feb 4, 2011 5:30 PM PST reply actions   2 recs

Both have zero rings

Mariners, Senators, Trail Blazers, Seahawks fan that also covers the Ottawa Senators prospects for Silver Seven. All from Sunrise, FL. And I do for you guys! Silver Seven

by Alexander Calloway on Feb 6, 2011 1:24 PM PST up reply actions  

Whatever you say.

I’m not terribly enamored with the rings argument because teams win championships, not players. The only thing I am saying is that as big a football fan as I am, the Seahawks have never produced an event comparable to that Game 5 against the Yankees. I will grant you that Marshawn’s run against the Saints was motherfucking awesome and is now probably my favorite play in Seahawks history (beating out Largent knocking the crap out of Mike Harden). But ’95, especially that Game 5 but really the whole entire months of August and September as well, were just one outlandishly awesome event after another.

Anyway, I will say that Hasselbeck last year was a crapton better for the team than Griffey in 2010 or 2009 for that matter. They’re just marginally alike (I’d make the 2009 Griffey comparison because Pete Carroll has indicated for unknown reasons that he wants Hass back next year) in that they had bad seasons that fans still enjoyed because they were bad seasons by their favorite players.

by Johnny Slick on Feb 7, 2011 2:04 PM PST up reply actions  

Yikes, the 2001 first round was garbage

Outside of Mauer and Teix, and to some extent Prior nothing really panned out.

Carlos Silvelite

by OceanBird on Feb 4, 2011 5:34 PM PST via mobile reply actions  

How big can the pile get?

Is there a limit on the number of guys they can invite to spring training?

by wazzu93 on Feb 4, 2011 7:48 PM PST reply actions  

I don't know about a limit,

but we still one short of the number of NRIs we had last year.

I’m counting 22 so far. Last year’s media guide lists 23.

by JonBBT on Feb 4, 2011 7:58 PM PST up reply actions  

Wow

I just laughed out loud for about 3 minutes after reading this headline. Awesome.

The Mariners may need some sort of special zoning permit if they keep adding on.

by BlazerD on Feb 4, 2011 8:40 PM PST reply actions  

3 Minutes?

How did you not pass out? That’s an incredibly long time to laugh out loud

by tsunamijesus on Feb 5, 2011 12:39 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

My memory of Gabe Gross..

Is when he and Gabe Kapler formed a platoon for the Rays. The Gabes combined for about 2 WAR. Though, sadly for Mr. Gross, 1.3 of it was Kapler.

by Patrick42 on Feb 4, 2011 10:47 PM PST reply actions  

Man, I wonder what the team would be like right now if we hadn't punted the draft for years.

Dustin Ackley is going to make Joe Morgan look like Joey Cora.
AL Scout on Rendon: "I would peg him as a poor man's Jose Lopez."

by joof on Feb 5, 2011 11:53 AM PST reply actions  

Texas

Mariners, Senators, Trail Blazers, Seahawks fan that also covers the Ottawa Senators prospects for Silver Seven. All from Sunrise, FL. And I do for you guys! Silver Seven

by Alexander Calloway on Feb 5, 2011 1:11 PM PST up reply actions  

The problem with inviting a bunch of random dudes to spring training

Is that you have one guy who wildly overperforms and either a) you need to waste a roster spot on him or b) you need to show everyone that it doesn’t matter how you perform in spring training, they’ll cut you anyway.

See: Sweeney, Mike.

by hunterfan on Feb 5, 2011 1:50 PM PST reply actions  

No you don't.

First of all, you can’t assume it’s a wasted roster spot.

Secondly, they can evaluate Spring Training on a scouting, rather than stat, basis and therefore cutting someone who whiffs a ton of AAers with 87mph stuff isn’t broadcasting that you don’t care about how people perform in Spring Training, it says you care about how you think they’ll perform in April

by Matthew on Feb 5, 2011 2:04 PM PST up reply actions  

So in your opinion...

It’s not damaging to team morale to invite people to a place where ostensibly they are being judged on their performance, have someone perform like a stud, and then cut him.

Interesting.

by hunterfan on Feb 5, 2011 4:23 PM PST up reply actions  

So your explanation of Mike Sweeney making the roster last year is....

what, exactly?

It fits into my paradigm. I’m not quite sure how it fits into yours.

by hunterfan on Feb 5, 2011 6:48 PM PST up reply actions  

What role was that?

Backup DH?

With apologies to Dave Cameron, he says it far better than I can.

“Screwing the bench over by carrying Mike Sweeney. Once they had committed themselves to Griffey, there was no reasonable way to have another player on this team who couldn’t play the field. They chose to keep Sweeney anyway, and in the process, completely destroyed the bench. This directly led to Eric Brynes playing LF against RHPs, an inability to pinch hit or pinch run in high leverage situations, and not being able to give struggling hitters a day off, as there was no one capable of playing their position on the bench.”

by hunterfan on Feb 5, 2011 7:24 PM PST up reply actions  

Garko was going to be the right-handed half of the DH/1B platoon/jumble.

Sweeney just didn’t play first base often, which would have made the whole scenario a little more palatable.

Wherever you are, here you go.

by thehemogoblin on Feb 5, 2011 7:31 PM PST up reply actions  

What paradigm?

I said they could do things a certain way, not that they did in the past. You’re making all sorts of false choices in this subthread.

by Matthew on Feb 5, 2011 6:54 PM PST up reply actions  

What false choice

Being concerned about something happening in the future because it happened in the past?

Color me guilty.

by hunterfan on Feb 5, 2011 7:20 PM PST up reply actions  

Two of them

First here

a) you need to waste a roster spot on him or b) you need to show everyone that it doesn’t matter how you perform in spring training, they’ll cut you anyway.

Which I countered by pointing out that it is both not necessarily a wasted roster spot (you might note that Mike Sweeney was one of the few productive players on the 2010 Mariners) and that cutting someone who puts up gaudy numbers in Spring Training is not necessarily showing the team that it doesn’t matter.

At no point did I say this is how the Mariners operate, operated, or will operate in the future. I am merely disputing your either/or choice as false because the reality is not limited to your simplified A) or B) choices.

Why you respond to that with asking me to shoehorn 2010 Mike Sweeney into “my paradigm” is beyond me.

by Matthew on Feb 5, 2011 7:35 PM PST up reply actions  

Am I explaining my point this badly or are you missing it on purpose?

Inviting multiple players to spring training to evaluate them on the basis of that is the epitome of SSS. You’re just throwing shit against the wall and hoping something sticks.

You’re very likely to get some crappy player who overperforms himself and either “plays” his way onto the roster and thus waste a roster space or you’ll need to cut said overperforming player and thus prove playing your way onto the roster was a chimera.

Is this a GUARANTEE to happen? No, but it’s certainly a definite possibility as we saw with Sweeney.

And for the reason why Sweeney was a bad choice to make the M’s roster, see Dave Cameron’s explanation above. Yeah, his triple slash line was OK but his absolute inability to play the field was crippling.

by hunterfan on Feb 5, 2011 7:48 PM PST up reply actions  

Mike Sweeney beat out Ryan Garko and gave the M's half a WAR and a PTBNL in 110 PA

After having played with the team the previous year. They had plenty of time to evaluate him and took a chance on a mix of a veteran DH/hottest bat at ST as the 25th man in a season where hitting was expected to be in short supply.

If you recall Chris Shelton was on fire in Spring 2009 and Wak still took Sweeney over him. The coaches aren’t simply looking at a SSS worth of March data. Wouldn’t you rather gather up as many options as possible for the 25th spot, knowing it tends to be rather fluid in ownership? If the needs of your team change, you can simply rotate in one role player for another from the large pool you already evaluated and smartly kept in Tacoma, where they have either continued their success or been replaced.

When you take the players you feel have the best chance to succeed in the big leagues, it’s not a wasted roster spot. It’s attempting to maximize your resources. And putting them as the 25th man minimizes the negative effect their failure can have on the team.

by MT Olson on Feb 6, 2011 4:12 AM PST up reply actions  

But no rational organization should have taken Sweeney out of ST

The org was committed to both Griffey (can only play DH) and Milton Bradley (should only play DH) due to contract and public relations purposes. There was absolutely no reason for a third string DH regardless of how he performed to make the roster out of spring training (unless the org was willing to cut Bradley or Griffey and at the time, they weren’t.)

BTW, I believe the Mariners didn’t end up getting a PTBNL out of the Phillies but only a bit of cash.

by hunterfan on Feb 6, 2011 7:42 AM PST up reply actions  

Believe it or not it is actually possible to disagree with Dave Cameron.

Bringing up an argument that he’s made in the past to support your point does not automatically win an argument.

by Aaron Campeau on Feb 6, 2011 11:17 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

No I get your point, as you seem intently keen on simply repeating it.

As I have tried to make clear, I disagree with it and have laid out the reasons why. If anyone else still has a related question, I’ll be happy to address it.

by Matthew on Feb 6, 2011 12:16 PM PST up reply actions  

Not so Gross

Gabe Gross isn’t good by anyone’s definition. Yet, he would have been the 3rd or 4th best bat on the 2010 Mariners. Which I think is kind of the point.

By bringing in more of the freely available talent that sabr types like to talk so much about, hopefully we can set a floor at replacement level instead of the unreachable ceiling it seemed to be for so much of 2010.

by bookbook on Feb 6, 2011 4:47 AM PST reply actions  

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