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The Prince Fielder Outcome Of Your Dreams Or Nightmares

There are some stories in baseball right now. Erik Bedard is signing with the Pirates. Jimmy Rollins looks like he's re-signing with the Phillies. Josh Bard is signing with the Dodgers. The Padres exist. But the biggest story, by far, and I mean by far, like really far, is Albert Pujols choosing between the Marlins and the Cardinals and maybe but probably not someone else. Albert Pujols is Albert fucking Pujols, so it's crazy that he's on the free agent market to begin with, and then you throw in the absurdity of him potentially being lured away from the only team he's ever known by the Miami god damned Marlins and it's just like total brain overload.

Here's why that matters, to us. The Mariners are not involved for Pujols. The Mariners were never going to be involved for Pujols, and I'd honestly be surprised if they so much as checked in with his agent to express their interest. Complete waste of time. That's time Jack Zduriencik could spend calling not-Dan Lozano, or shaving. But the Marlins are involved for Pujols. I don't know where they currently stand - different reports say different things - but if they miss out, there's another big-time free agent first baseman they could go after if they wanted.

Different reports also say different things about whether or not the Marlins would look to Prince Fielder, but it would make sense. Fielder isn't as good as Pujols, and he doesn't have the Latino appeal, but he's considerably younger, and he lives in Florida. If the Marlins are certain they should offer Pujols what they've offered him, it stands to reason they'd be certain they should offer Fielder a lot, too, if Pujols re-signs.

This whole time, we've been thinking about the possibility of Fielder just kind of falling into the Mariners' lap. The Mariners are known to be interested. The Red Sox and Yankees aren't, the Rangers have said that they aren't, the Blue Jays have indicated that they aren't, the Brewers have indicated that they aren't...what if Fielder's market didn't develop? What if the Mariners could sign him for like six years?

Some Mariners fans would kill a person for that. Other Mariners fans want the team to stay away regardless. But if the Marlins miss out on Pujols, and if they get into the mix for Fielder, it's hard to imagine his price not skyrocketing, beyond what the Mariners are willing to commit.

Brewers:
Red Sox:
Yankees:
Blue Jays:
Rangers:
Other teams:
Mariners:
Sooooooo
Mariners: Six years, $130 million, say?
Boras: Well
Boras: Well I guess so.
Boras: If you could just sign right-
MARLINS: HEY GUYS TEN YEARS
MARLINS: TEN YEARS AND TWELVE YEARS
MARLINS: AND A HELICOPTER

Of course, it's also hard to imagine Fielder's price not skyrocketing, even if the Marlins don't get involved. Even if the Marlins sign Pujols or C.J. Wilson instead. This is Prince Fielder, and he's represented by Scott Boras. Fielder is 27 years old. He just put up a 164 OPS+ over 162 games. The Mariners aren't going to get him at a discount, and an awful lot of things would have to come together for them to get him at a contract with which they're even comfortable.

So no matter what Jim Bowden says, the Mariners probably can't be considered front-runners. Or even if they are slight front-runners now, it doesn't mean their odds are actually good. These negotiations have a long way to go, and nobody cares if you're winning a race after the first 20 steps.

Comment 130 comments  |  18 recs  | 

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Then again...
The Mariners aren’t going to get him at a discount

They got Beltre at, not a discount, but at a totally reasonable price.

:(

Remember when they signed Beltre?

by Matthew on Dec 7, 2011 12:38 PM PST reply actions   2 recs

I remember when we let Beltre walk

And then spent more money on Chone Figgins!

Unofficial Sounder Fan Club President - South Dakota Division

by JWAY on Dec 7, 2011 12:47 PM PST up reply actions  

We? Let?

Beltre left and there was little to no indication he wanted to stay

by Matthew on Dec 7, 2011 12:48 PM PST up reply actions  

You're suggesting that Beltre would have taken the Red Sox 9m

Versus the 36 we gifted to Chone? No thanks.

Unofficial Sounder Fan Club President - South Dakota Division

by JWAY on Dec 7, 2011 1:07 PM PST up reply actions  

Okay, well if they tried then great. I'm just surprised he went for $9m...

Worked out okay for him though.

Unofficial Sounder Fan Club President - South Dakota Division

by JWAY on Dec 7, 2011 1:14 PM PST up reply actions  

I guess I'm not trying to say it wasn't predictable.

I just seem to remember thinking, nobody was looking at Beltre at all, and he just kind of fell into the 1 year deal. Makes sense that it did work out.

Unofficial Sounder Fan Club President - South Dakota Division

by JWAY on Dec 7, 2011 1:18 PM PST up reply actions  

Back to lurking.

:)

Unofficial Sounder Fan Club President - South Dakota Division

by JWAY on Dec 7, 2011 1:19 PM PST up reply actions  

Look snarkiness aside, I think its clear that either Beltre or his agent or most likely both

regretted the decision to sign here in the first place because the ball park masked Beltre’s offensive abilities. I believe Beltre had no interest in a long term deal at the time because he didnt want to be locked into a contract that valued him unfairly. And it worked out pretty wel lin the end – he signed for nearly 100M over six years in a place where he can put up gaudy numbers.

by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 7, 2011 1:24 PM PST up reply actions  

I do recall Beltre desiring a one year contract in a park friendly to right handed hitters

perhaps in a bigger media market. There’s a chance his agent felt he could get a larger contract a year later after reestablishing his value as an elite player. However did that turn out for him?

by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 7, 2011 1:17 PM PST up reply actions  

Is it "woah" or "whoa" ?

I always spell it woah, but Firefox is claiming the latter is correct.

by Matthew on Dec 7, 2011 12:48 PM PST up reply actions  

"Nobody cares if you're winning a race after the first 20 steps."

Obviously you’re not a big follower of P21SRA (The Professional 21-Step Race Association).

by Eyebrows on Dec 7, 2011 12:42 PM PST via mobile reply actions   2 recs

MARLINS

We’re not allowed color text but that was perfect. The Marlins just running around throwing ridiculous offers on the table at every table. Even poker tables and buffet lines and the free concessions stands.

IGNORE ME

by tsunamijesus on Dec 7, 2011 12:45 PM PST reply actions  

Angels and Rangers would drive up the price

unless the Marlins really do offer 10 years, then what’s the point

by valencia on Dec 7, 2011 12:46 PM PST reply actions  

Heeeeey Marlins, the Cardinals are offering David Freese for Chone Figgins.

I am convinced that Seattle sports teams exist to make me hate Seattle sports teams.

by the other side on Dec 7, 2011 12:46 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

If they do sign one or the other

I suggest some sort of trade for Gaby Sanchez’s services.

by Ackfan on Dec 7, 2011 12:55 PM PST reply actions  

Gaby Sanchez isn't THAT good of a hitter.

He would be a decent DH. But he’s young and has a lot of years left under contract, meaning he wouldn’t come cheaply from the Marlins. I’d rather not overpay in talent for an okay DH when we have Smoak and Carp in-house.

by Eyebrows on Dec 7, 2011 1:09 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

Carp?

No matter where you go, there you are.

by KC Mariner on Dec 7, 2011 3:51 PM PST up reply actions  

As much fun as it would be to have Prince Fielder on the Mariners,

that’s a lot of money being thrown at one bat. I think that that money could be spent better if spread around. Then again, there aren’t that many other hitters out there that fit our needs. Perhaps a trade for Logan Morrison, and use the Prince money on a couple of back-end starters (to fill the void before the four minor league guns are ready) and a 3B.

by mamaxmax on Dec 7, 2011 12:58 PM PST reply actions  

Four minor league guns?

Am I having a senior moment? Hultzen, Paxton, Walker…………..?

by Aly Edge on Dec 7, 2011 2:25 PM PST up reply actions  

I never thought we even needed to think about four developing SP

Cause, y’know, Felix and Pineda are both still pretty young.

by Aly Edge on Dec 7, 2011 2:31 PM PST up reply actions  

Vasquez

Obviously!

by CMoney87 on Dec 7, 2011 2:36 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

Vasquez is MLB ready!

How come you can do all this other great shit, but you can't lie the fuck down and sleep?

by JAH on Dec 7, 2011 2:54 PM PST up reply actions  

Well, the Fielder talk was fun while it lasted.

Until the teams serious about spending came into play.

Hope they’re all wrong!

Twitter- @GriffinNW

by GriffinNW on Dec 7, 2011 1:09 PM PST via mobile reply actions  

For the people that don't want Fielder.. who becomes a free agent in the next couple years

That the Mariners could sign when our team is in a “better position”?

You don’t want an entertaining, big bat player to be signed for our team, okay. Who would become available to us entering their prime, young like the rest of our team, and looking for a new team or a new/big contract?

So confusing.

Twitter- @GriffinNW

by GriffinNW on Dec 7, 2011 2:01 PM PST reply actions  

Even if we did...

There are always a couple of strong pitchers and every team except the 2011 Phillies could upgrade with a starting pitcher.

No need to shop for “big bat” unless first base is literally the only hole on the roster, in which case we’re basically going to the playoffs anyway, so why worry?

by philosofool on Dec 7, 2011 2:10 PM PST up reply actions  

People who read (and write) this blog know that

But I get a bit scared for Jack Z’s future when I read comments like:

""No" to Prince Fielder, but “Yes” to a guy who: 1. hit .211 in the Pacific Coast League; 2. had only 2 more SBs than CS’s at the major league level, and who 3. was DFA’d by an offense challenged club that ranked 29th in runs scored in 2011. The Mariners, by the way, ranked 30th. Out of 30 teams, two years running…..ROTFLMAO."

“We want Fielder – a slugger and a bat. Is that really too much to ask?”

From the comments sections of some of those bullshit “a fan’s reaction” articles. It’s stupid, but jebus, if enough people start vocally feeling this way…like I say, I worry about the potential consequences.

by Aly Edge on Dec 7, 2011 2:30 PM PST up reply actions  

You so sure about that?

Yeah, it’s not a 1:1 thing, but if the popular perception among people who buy the tickets and the crackerjacks is “Fielder not signing with Mariners = failure by Z because he doesn’t care about winning” that it’s impossible that that could be a problem? I wish I was that confident.

by Aly Edge on Dec 7, 2011 3:01 PM PST up reply actions  

It's a cliche that if you manage like a fan, soon you will be one.

The biggest thing that will get people to buy tickets is winning. If you win, people will show up and they’ll become fans of whichever players are on your team at that time.

Or you’re Tampa Bay, and they still won’t show up.

by Two Rs and Two Ls on Dec 7, 2011 3:06 PM PST up reply actions  

I didn't say it wasn't a problem

just that the solution to that problem isn’t “do what the internet says”. Baseball front offices operate with far more information than internet commenters, and their decisions are based on how they process and interpret that information. They “listen” to the fans, but if all of a sudden the M’s were to throw up their hands and say “fuck it, the internet wants us to sign Prince Fielder – GET IT DONE!”, I’d be stunned.

by pdb on Dec 7, 2011 3:08 PM PST up reply actions  

I wasn't at all suggesting that the solution was "do what the internet says"

Just that I’m worried. I guess what I’m worried about is the stick-to-it-iveness (people say that, but boy does it look stupid spelled out) of the ownership. It seems like it would be right up their alley to give in while the ship is, indeed slowly, being righted.

by Aly Edge on Dec 7, 2011 3:15 PM PST up reply actions  

It's just, a lot of people have hung their hopes on Fielder

Foolishly, I’d say. It’s as if they legitimately do want to cripple the team for a decade or more just so it can go 74-88 rather than 69-93 next year. And when they don’t get their way (which they won’t) there will be calls for Z’s head. I just hope they’re seen as being as foolish as they are by those in power.

by Aly Edge on Dec 7, 2011 3:18 PM PST up reply actions  

You have just described the pursuit of every coveted free agent in every sport in the history of ever

the Mariner fanbase will survive a non-acquisition of Fielder, just as it survived not getting every other high-profile free agent throughout its history.

by pdb on Dec 7, 2011 3:22 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

I think it's less "failure by Z" and more

“Winning isn’t important to Ellis/Lincoln/Nintendo. They only want to make money.” Which is also silly, because how much they win has a relationship with how many people come to the games and the value of their broadcast contracts and the like.

by Two Rs and Two Ls on Dec 7, 2011 3:11 PM PST up reply actions  

Media narratives become pretty powerful.

Owners who are seeing declining revenues aren’t necessarily the smartest baseball men. In seeking to blame someone, it’s easy to take up a story about how the struggling offense was what we needed to fix while the management ignored the problem. It doesn’t become an issue of Fielder or any other free agent, so much as a matter of not “solving the problem” by adding offense. (You didn’t get fielder. But where were you on Willingham? What about Reyes? What about Pujols? Did you even call about him? What about trading pitching for hitting?)

by philosofool on Dec 7, 2011 3:28 PM PST up reply actions  

At the same time

Ownership is well aware of what Jack Zduriencik and his group are planning and executing…far more than the fanbase is. As noted in various articles, Chuck Armstrong is also at the Winter Meetings. Completely lost in this issue is that no one in management was expecting the team to win in 2011 to begin with. Those in charge are certainly not fooled by the idea that problems such as lack of offense should’ve been solved by now, particularly with ownership not kicking in the extra funds to do so last season.

With Zduriencik getting a two-year extension, there is certainly an expectation for what should happen in the next two seasons. Ultimately, only they will know whether those expectations are met.

by ThundaPC on Dec 7, 2011 4:23 PM PST up reply actions  

Zimmerman and Votto are both approaching free agency and, if their clubs can't get extensions, they may look to move them in the next year

A McCutchen or Upton may also become available. Free agency isn’t the only way to acquire talent.

You evaluate Fielder based on his talent and what he’s going to cost. You don’t sign someone because you don’t see anyone else.

by AndrewMcQ on Dec 7, 2011 2:12 PM PST up reply actions  

Which Upton?

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring". ~Rogers Hornsby

by extavernmouse on Dec 7, 2011 3:06 PM PST up reply actions  

So the Marlins have spent a massive amount of money this off-season (thanks Captain Obvious).

I remember the off-season of 2008 in which the Yankees spent $423M on Teixeira, Sabathia, and Burnett . The Marlins are up to $191M so far. If they sign Pujols/Prince, they will come dangerously close to the Yankee’s total and I just find this possibility absolutely hilarious. In 2008, the Marlins spent just less than $22M on total player payroll.

"Satisfaction is the enemy of success." SanFranPreps

by perfectstrat on Dec 7, 2011 2:13 PM PST reply actions  

Is a major league baseball player

Well, Hanley Ramirez is, anyway. What’s your point?

by pdb on Dec 7, 2011 2:32 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't know how to make the very cool blue quote boxes:

But this new from Jon Morosi: “Source with knowledge of #Mariners’ plans believes they will make strong effort to sign Prince Fielder.”

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring". ~Rogers Hornsby

by extavernmouse on Dec 7, 2011 3:57 PM PST reply actions  

Use the speech mark icon

blockquote>text goes here</blockquote

by Eyeball Kid on Dec 7, 2011 4:03 PM PST up reply actions  

Thanks, Eyeball.

Found the icon; will try it next time I have something appropriate to post.

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring". ~Rogers Hornsby

by extavernmouse on Dec 7, 2011 4:13 PM PST up reply actions  

Fielder's a smokescreen

Methinks the M’s are really one of the mystery offers on Pujols.

by bookbook on Dec 7, 2011 4:15 PM PST reply actions  

Funny how "reports" and "sources" change in a 24 hour period.

Everyone and no one is in on Fielder. Same goes with Pujols. If what I read was correct, everyone and no one is looking to sign CJ Wilson too.

Twitter- @GriffinNW

by GriffinNW on Dec 7, 2011 5:06 PM PST reply actions  

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