Jeff Gray At A Conference
by Jeff Sullivan on Dec 2, 2011 10:02 PM PST
in Miscellaneous
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PrintThe winter meetings - the second winter meetings, and the interesting winter meetings - kick off very soon, in a hotel in Dallas. In a related event, this coming Sunday and Monday, Sports Management Worldwide will put on the 2011 SMWW Baseball Career Conference, also in Dallas. In their words:
This conference is to gain valuable insight into a variety of careers from those working at all levels in baseball including MLB and the minor leagues.
The conference features networking opportunities and a number of talks from industry professionals. Speakers include, but are not limited to, John Mozeliak, Ned Colletti, Victor Rojas, and our own Rob Neyer. Monday at 9am, there will be a talk about MLB agents and their relationships with players. The agent scheduled to speak is Tony Ciccolella, and the player scheduled to speak is Ciccolella's client, Jeff Gray.
Organizer: How about Prince Fielder and Scott Boras?
Assistant: Hold on...
Assistant: They're not available.
Organizer: How about Albert Pujols and Dan Lozano?
Assistant: Hold on...
Assistant: They're not available.
Organizer: How about C.J. Wilson and Bob Garber?
Assistant: Hold on...
Assistant: They're not available.
Organizer: How about Mark Buehrle and Jeff Berry?
Assistant: Hold on...
Assistant: They're not available.
Organizer: How about Jose Reyes and Peter Greenberg?
Assistant: Hold on...
Assistant: They're not available.
Organizer: How about Aramis Ramirez and Paul Kinzer?
Assistant: Hold on...
Assistant: They're not available.
Organizer: How about Hiroki Kuroda and Steve Hilliard?
Assistant: Hold on...
***
Organizer: How about Paul Maholm and Bo McKinnis?
Assistant: Hold on...
Assistant: They're not available.
Organizer: How about MIke Cameron and Mike Nicotera?
Assistant: Hold on...
Assistant: They're not available.
Organizer: How about Jamie Moyer and nobody since he negotiates his own contracts?
Assistant: Hold on...
Assistant: He's not available.
Organizer: How about Willie Harris and Daryl Buford?
Assistant: Hold on...
***
Organizer: How about Scott Olsen and Matt Sosnick?
Assistant: Hold on...
Assistant: They're not available.
Organizer: How about Paul Bako and Barry Meister?
Assistant: Hold on...
Assistant: They're not available.
Organizer: How about...
Organizer: Hmm.
Organizer: I think that's just about...
Assistant: There is still one option.
Assistant: Hold on...
Assistant: Yeah, yeah they're in.
***
Ciccolella: Good morning and welcome, everybody.
Ciccolella: I'm glad that you all could make it.
Ciccolella: For the next half hour, we're going to talk about agents and players and how they get on.
Audience Member: /raises hand
Ciccolella: Yes?
Audience Member: Will we get to hear from an agent or a player?
Ciccolella: I am an agent - Tony Ciccolella!
Ciccolella: This is my client, Jeff Gray.
Gray: /cough
Ciccolella: He is a pitcher for a team!
Audience Member: oh
Audience Member:
Audience Member: /eyes door
Doors: /close slowly
Audience Member: /sighs
***
Ciccolella: I think we have a pretty good relationship.
Ciccolella: Even though he's a player and I'm an agent, we're more like friends.
Ciccolella: I like to call him 'Jeff'.
Ciccolella: He likes to call me 'Mr. Ciccolella'.
***
Ciccolella: Player recruiting - that's a funny story.
Ciccolella: You hear all these stories about agents splurging on bottle service and callgirls.
Ciccolella: I don't work that way, I'm clean, I'm a good guy.
Ciccolella: I saw him once and I asked him if he wanted me to be his agent.
Ciccolella: At first he said "really?"
Ciccolella: Then he said "okay"
***
Ciccolella: And that's why my policy is to accept the first contract offer that I get.
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Comments
Hahahaha
I had to look up who Jeff Gray was.
Carter Jurica!
"Has anyone really been for even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?"
by GrahamCrakalaka on Dec 2, 2011 10:19 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
Jeff Grey has been incredibly successful
He’s risen to the top 1% in his field. He’s achieved more success and made more money (through contracts arranged by his agent) than most of us will ever dream of. Rather than arrogantly making fun of him, let’s show the man a little respect.
by phineasd on Dec 3, 2011 12:02 PM PST via mobile reply actions
This is either a reference I've missed or you're accusing us of disrespecting a man while misspelling his name.
I hope it’s the former because boy would you look silly otherwise.
by Eyeball Kid on Dec 3, 2011 12:29 PM PST up reply actions 15 recs
Especially when Jeff Gray has probably made only around $600,000 in baseball.
by Matthew on Dec 3, 2011 12:46 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Only?
And you have made how many thousands of dollars for your professional activities? Besides which, the man is in the middle of his career. A few more years, with a bit of luck, and he’ll have made 2 million. Is that “only” 2 million in your eyes? Where do you draw the line?
by phineasd on Dec 3, 2011 12:53 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
"made more money than most of us will ever dream of"
I don’t discuss my earnings with strangers, but an average high school dropout earns about $1 million over his lifetime according to the US Census for one and I’m pretty sure most of us will dream of that.
Since you are either trolling or, based on previous comments, a bit of an entitled prick, I’ll stop here.
by Matthew on Dec 3, 2011 1:11 PM PST up reply actions 8 recs
Thank you for pointing out that i was overly dramatic
I apologize that I did not state my thoughts clearly. The twofold idea I was trying to convey is that Jeff Gray has already earned more in his career than most of us have, and will likely end up earning quite a bit more at retirement than most of us. Is that better?
I like a lot of the stuff on LL. I don’t appreciate this sort of post that makes fun of a man who has worked incredibly hard to become a member of a very elite group of people. I believe that even playing in MLB, regardless of how successfully, is a tremendous achievement. Please correct me if I am wrong, but that I partly what these forums are for, are they not — to express an alternative opinion or viewpoint?
by phineasd on Dec 3, 2011 2:02 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Jeff was making fun of Jeff Gray i.e. creating fun where once there was none
That’s not the sort of thing that deserves opposition.
by Captain Peppernuts on Dec 3, 2011 2:25 PM PST up reply actions
Okay, so if you ever say anything negative about any athlete ever in your personal or private life
I assume you will swiftly take a mace to your genitals as penance.
...and now I'm here
You have been free to express you opinion and viewpoint.
I, and others, have in turn been free to disagree with and mock it.
Yes you are
And I have not argued against your right to express that viewpoint or told you to get lost or to f-off. That is the difference.
by phineasd on Dec 3, 2011 4:15 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Now you just seem like you're trying to be offended, or else find any way to adopt a high horse.
Pretty much nobody did any of those things you listed. The majority simply made fun of you taking this so seriously.
by Matthew on Dec 3, 2011 4:56 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
You are right
Apologies to Mr. Gray. Thank you for the correction. I don’t know how he feels about it but people misspell my last name all the time and that bothers me a lot less than the type of treatment you are giving out in this article.
by phineasd on Dec 3, 2011 12:48 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Your last name is d
You must know a lot of illiterate people
by fiftyone on Dec 3, 2011 5:54 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Ok
And you and Mr. Sullivan are in the bottom 0.00001% I would imagine. Perspective. And if you allow a reasonable definition of “his field” as “professional baseball players” then yes he is indeed in the top 1%.
by phineasd on Dec 3, 2011 12:50 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Just how many professional baseball players do you think there are.
by Graham MacAree on Dec 3, 2011 1:00 PM PST up reply actions
And yes, I am better at my job than Gray is at his
by Graham MacAree on Dec 3, 2011 1:02 PM PST up reply actions
Good for you
I am willing to bet that his job is orders of magnitude more difficult than your job. I’m better at mowing my lawn then Jeff Gray is at striking out Prince Fielder. So what?
by phineasd on Dec 3, 2011 2:04 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
No I didn't
Good luck with your work Graham. I have an advanced degree and also work in a very intellectually demanding field. Different than baseball for sure but I would say for sure that there are a lot more people succeeding at a high level in my field than as major league pitchers.
by phineasd on Dec 3, 2011 3:37 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Hey, that's fantastic! Me too! It's always such a pleasure to meet another intellectual working in a demanding field
People succeed at a very low level in mine, subterranean really. But then it’s a fucking tunnel so that’s to be expected.
by Kermit. on Dec 3, 2011 4:55 PM PST up reply actions 4 recs
I see
So if all you can manage is a sarcastic and vulgar non sequitur, I can only assume that you have no genuine objection to my point.
by phineasd on Dec 3, 2011 5:27 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
No, I do. More so to you, personally
You’re a stuffed shirt full of hot air.
by Kermit. on Dec 3, 2011 5:29 PM PST up reply actions 7 recs
If you do then please share
I’m not going to stoop to name calling so let’s table the second part of the discussion. Do you have anything of substance to say about the point at hand?
by phineasd on Dec 3, 2011 6:01 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Or he's an intellectual in a demanding field who works in subterranean tunnels.
Which is pretty relevant to your point at hand. But if I’m following your point at hand it is to be offended over nothing, soooo… And he’s not a troll, despite working underground, like one of those underground tunnel trolls. At least, I don’t think he is, he’s not exhibiting troll-like behavior at least. Also, Jeff Gray isn’t that great at baseball, and there are lots of jobs harder than it, such as Polish cavalryman or Exorcist.
by Craptastic-J on Dec 3, 2011 6:42 PM PST up reply actions 6 recs
Not many survived the blitzkrieg
But they were already pretty out of date by that time too, what’s 70 more years?
If they can do it, why can't we?
I’d gladly sign up for a life of riding through the plains on horseback, shooting buffaloes and building forts. Eventually of course I’d marry an Indian girl and forsake my own people.
If this post seriously bothers you this much, may I suggest 2 things?
1. Get a sense of humor
2. Avoid LL
No disrespect to you intended, but this may not be the site for you.
by truemsfan on Dec 3, 2011 1:02 PM PST up reply actions 4 recs
I suppose
I suppose that a sense of humor is relative. I find a lot of things funny. I find this to be a snarky attempt to elicit a few laughs at the expense of another.
Secondly, you are probably right that I should avoid the forums. But I find a lot of the articles here pretty interesting. I am a baseball fan and I make heavy use of econometrical analysis and mathematical models in my profession. So I find it very interesting to learn about their application to other fields. I learn a lot here at LL when the focus is kept to that.
by phineasd on Dec 3, 2011 2:09 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
What he means is, don't act like a prick o everyone on this site.
Or, Piss Off.
Post tenebras lux
by Archibald Cunningham on Dec 3, 2011 3:06 PM PST up reply actions
I've actually tried very hard to be polite
Your comment, on the other hand, makes you come across as a prick. Maybe you’re just having a bad day, I’ll cut you some slack. But is this really what passes for intelligent discourse around here?
by phineasd on Dec 3, 2011 3:28 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
It's not, but neither is your comment right here.
Lay off the backhanded swipes. You’ve been warned in the past.
Ok
His was just the most vitriolic, with several other posts along the same line that I ignored. Sorry if I felt a need to defend myself and stepped over a line.
I politely express my viewpoint and get roundly and rudely criticized because it is different from everyone else’s. I hope you understand my need to respond.
by phineasd on Dec 3, 2011 4:05 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
You are not being criticized because your viewpoint is different.
You are being criticized because people find your viewpoint overly stuffy.
by Matthew on Dec 3, 2011 4:46 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Ok
You may be right. I appreciate the feedback. Although I strongly suspect that if I had made an overt stuffy response in complete agreement with the article, it wouldn’t have received a single response. So I believe the contrary opinion is what people find most objectionable.
by phineasd on Dec 3, 2011 5:29 PM PST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Your opinion is thus:
“Don’t have a negative opinion out athletes because they work really hard.” This is a bad opinion.
...and now I'm here
Here's a fun one:
Always hearing the Seattle announcers
Was very important to me last year. In the post-Dave era, worth a lot less. I was listening to Ron Fairly on the radio yesterday and my god he is terrible.
Ron Fairly has been incredibly successful. He’s risen to the top 1% in his field. He’s achieved more success and made more money than Jeff Gray will ever dream of. Rather than arrogantly insulting him, show the man a little respect.
...and now I'm here
by CapSea on Dec 3, 2011 6:16 PM PST up reply actions 11 recs
Not exactly
Ex-players doing play by play announcing are frequently terrible. They aren’t there for their announcing skills, they are there for their name recognition. You are right that I made a blanket statement about him and I apologize for that. On that particular day he was doing play by play instead of the color commentary and frequently messing up on the calls and the players names. On that particular day he was, in my opinion, terrible at his job and I was noting that fact. And besides, I was missing Dave. Still do.
by phineasd on Dec 3, 2011 7:02 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Ron Fairly was not chosen for his name recognition.
And your apology is not accepted. Either you’re not allowed to criticize anyone that has managed to succeed in a selective field, or you are. You have criticized someone that has had success in a selective field, ergo you should be outraged with yourself, or you need to re-evaluate your entire stance.
...and now I'm here
Ho hum
I wasn’t apologizing to you, I was apologizing to Ron. So I don’t care what you have to say on that matter. And Ron Fairly was not, I am sure, chosen for his play by play announcing abilities. Just like Jeff Gray was not on the roster to play shortstop. If he was put in at short and booted three grounders in a row, I wouldn’t complain about anyone who said he was playing terribly in that situation.
I’m going out for the evening, have a good night everyone.
by phineasd on Dec 3, 2011 7:13 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
First of all, I'm Ron Fairly. So your ignorance on the matter knows no bounds.
Second of all, Jeff Gray is not a very good pitcher. So I fail to see what your point is. Third of all, this is another sentence I’m writing about it. And fourth, you have still failed to address the logical flaws in your own argument which in my opinion concedes defeat, so I trust this is the last you’ll ever say on the matter in this forum or others.
...and now I'm here
by CapSea on Dec 3, 2011 7:19 PM PST up reply actions 6 recs
That explains a lot
Given how frequently you post on this site while the games are in progress, I now see how you would have so much trouble following the action while in the radio booth at the same time.
But seriously, if your strategy is to just tell bold-face lies then I don’t really see much point in listening to anything else you have to say. I’ll just tune you out from now on. Have a nice day.
by phineasd on Dec 4, 2011 6:09 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Bold face lies?
How could you not take that as blatant sarcasm?
New to the internet?
"Tell my tale to those who ask. Tell it truly, the ill deeds along with the good and let me be judged accordingly. The rest is silence." ~ Dinobot
by beastwarking on Dec 4, 2011 11:30 AM PST up reply actions
.
You have still failed to address the logical flaws in your own argument which in my opinion concedes defeat, so I trust this is the last you’ll ever say on the matter in this forum or others.
...and now I'm here
I don't think you are very good at logic
Or at least you are dramatically overstating your viewpoint. A logical argument entails something like “if A then B” and identifying a flaw in that logic would be to show that B does not follow from A. You have done nothing of the sort. The only approach that you have taken is to try and claim that I do not always perfectly follow my own prescriptions. I think you are taking severe liberties and misstating my viewpoints. But I am pretty tired about arguing it at this stage, especially given my belief that you are just trying to provoke a response and have a zero percent chance of ever being convinced by my argument. So it is a waste of time at this point. And please dear God I hope you are not serious about suggesting we continue this on some other thread.
by phineasd on Dec 4, 2011 2:54 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Actually I have done that several times.
You: It’s arrogant to poke fun at professional athletes in the top 1% of their field.
Flaws with your argument:
You: Some players are worse than others at baseball, and it’s okay to comment on this as I have done in numerous threads but for some reason I am claiming it is not okay for Jeff to do it in a humorous way.
You: I can call Ron Fairly, a professional sports announcer “awful,” despite him falling under the same criteria as Jeff Gray as one of the leaders in his field. I justify this by saying he was there for name recognition, even though he most assuredly was not and I have nothing to back up that opinion.
You: I have nothing to refute any opinion that has been stated against my widely erroneous belief, but I pretend to take a high road that doesn’t exist and merely avoids confronting every single person here that has commented against my belief, and use of the word “arrogant,” and pretty much everything I listed in my original point.
Also:
I hope you are not serious about suggesting we continue this on some other thread.
Literally no one did this, suggesting to me that your reading comprehension is as poor as your ability to commit to a discussion.
...and now I'm here
by CapSea on Dec 4, 2011 4:50 PM PST up reply actions 4 recs
You are clearly wrong
When you say “literally no one did this” because you yourself did exactly that with your snarky response to my innocuous comment on the Jeff Mathis thread. Rather than allow this conversation to continue over on that other thread as you attempted to do, I avoided responding there. I don’t think my reading comprehension is poor. I think your grasp of reality is poor.
The rest of your post misstated my argument badly and has no connection to a logical argument whatsoever. You continue to put up straw men and try to push them down. Keep it up all night if you like. I don’t know you very well but based upon your comments here you come across as mean spirited, closed minded, sarcastic, and both intellectually and directly dishonest. In short, not somebody I really care to continue to engage in dialogue with. So if it is all the same to you I will leave it at that. And no it doesn’t mean that I cede the point. It means that you no longer interest me.
by phineasd on Dec 4, 2011 9:07 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
It seems that I do, since you keep coming back.
And I am only one of the dozens of voices here that have disagreed with you openly, pointed to the flaws in logic, and shown you where everything you’ve said is immensely incorrect. You yourself have been hypocritical about your own point several times in this thread and others and come up with these flimsy excuses for it that you have chosen not to address.
When everyone – including a site author of a website you come to for intellectual stimulation – explains to you that your logic and feeling on this is wrong, and you continue to claim you’re right without actually explaining why you’re right, you lose the argument.
Also, it’s not a strawman argument when I use your own sentences in context and correctly, just with a conclusion that you don’t want to own up to.
...and now I'm here
by CapSea on Dec 4, 2011 10:55 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Not at all
You severely mischaracterize my opinion. It’s more along the lines of, you are making fun of a guy for only having $500 million instead of being a billionaire. Not about negative opinions or working hard. But I don’t really see the point of re-hashing this any further. You guys only see what you want to see and I am not going to change that.
by phineasd on Dec 3, 2011 6:55 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Your viewpoint is nonsensical and I do not believe you have taken the time to reflect on it.
Rather, it seems that you’ve decided to be upset by something irrationally and have nothing to justify it with other than it’s your opinion – an opinion that is not only misguided, but also selective as you yourself have trashed Ron Fairly in the past and hinted that other baseball players are less than adequate only a few hours ago.
...and now I'm here
So?
Yes, it is true that I noted that some ball players are worse than others. Doesn’t mean they aren’t all highly skilled. And yes I exhibited a preference for the Angels to hang onto as many below average players as possible. Doesn’t mean I expect them to give me a tryout.
by phineasd on Dec 3, 2011 7:07 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
So what you're saying is that relative to other major leaguers, a player can be bad.
And if that player is bad relative to other major leaguers, one could, conceivably, comment on how that player is bad relative to other major leaguers. Correct?
...and now I'm here
Jeff was commenting on the fact that Gray is probably the least remarkable player they could have gotten.
Which is about as close to true as you can get. Are you going to comment on Matthew’s post saying that Jeff Mathis is bad and say that’s wrong because he’s better than any of us?
The point of this post wasn’t to call attention to the fact that Jeff Gray is bad or anything and worse than the average person at baseball. It was to take a humorous take on something unremarkable and make it funny. If you didn’t find it funny, fine. But this is very much the norm for this site, so if you come here for mostly the statistical stuff then only read that stuff and ignore the stuff you find offensive.
by Mariner John on Dec 3, 2011 7:11 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
What bothers me, personally, is
your use of the word “arrogantly” in your original post. That’s a value judgment that completely undermines whatever scant merits your argument may have had. I only “know” Jeff in the sense that I’ve read a lot of his content here on LL, but none of his posts come across as arrogant to me, and this one is no different. Maybe if he were an MLB player writing this, you MIGHT have a point, but as it is, using those kind of incendiary words—especially without basis—is going to make most people consider you a troll, hence the opposition. Also, your argument sucks.
by Milendriel on Dec 4, 2011 7:12 AM PST up reply actions 3 recs
Fair enough
On your point about arrogant being a word with a strong value judgment. I should have used a softer term. Thanks for your feedback.
by phineasd on Dec 4, 2011 9:18 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
This seems like a strange overreaction to what was hilariously funny.
Are you Brandon Morrow?
by Robby The Kid on Dec 3, 2011 1:03 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
It's really awkward when I parent goes online and tries to defend their somewhat famous kid.
by BigR on Dec 3, 2011 1:34 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Yes
I can’t believe I forgot how to spell my own son’s last name.
by phineasd on Dec 3, 2011 2:12 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
I can!
King Felix's Court: The Mariner blog for fans that like copious amounts of noise and alcohol.
by BrettJMiller on Dec 3, 2011 10:01 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
The best part of this is that it's the most emotion jeff gray has elicited all year.
Seriously I forgot he was in the bullpen for like a month.
by twoodard on Dec 3, 2011 1:42 PM PST via mobile up reply actions 6 recs
Get over yourself
"Tell my tale to those who ask. Tell it truly, the ill deeds along with the good and let me be judged accordingly. The rest is silence." ~ Dinobot
by beastwarking on Dec 3, 2011 3:00 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I suppose if you consider his field "playing baseball" then yes he's better than 99% of his field (everyone who's ever played baseball).
If you consider his field “playing baseball in the Major Leagues” then no, he is not.
Thank god the winter meetings are this week
by Chris_FB on Dec 4, 2011 8:18 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
How you wrote an entire post filled with agents names and didn't include Bean Stringfellow is beyond me.
I feel ripped off.
by ScottBrowne on Dec 3, 2011 3:45 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Fun fact:
The SMWW conference site linked in the post has Jeff Gray’s name spelled wrong in the sidebar.
This is most hits Jeff Gray will ever get
Even then, most of the discussion still pushes Gray into the back
"Tell my tale to those who ask. Tell it truly, the ill deeds along with the good and let me be judged accordingly. The rest is silence." ~ Dinobot
by beastwarking on Dec 3, 2011 11:09 PM PST up reply actions
It's a good thing the Mariners marketing dept is very smart
A lesser organization would see all the posts and comments, conclude Mr. Gray is some underground fan favorite, and create a section and/or promo night for him.
by Chris_FB on Dec 4, 2011 8:22 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Here we go
I think this is actually quite funny.
by phineasd on Dec 4, 2011 9:09 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
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