Prince Fielder And The Seattle Mariners: The (Relatively) Unspoken Problem
by Jeff Sullivan on Nov 8, 2011 7:27 PM PST
in Seattle Mariners Rumors
Email
Print
This is something that's been on my mind for a few days. Maybe more than a few days. I don't know, I usually don't remember much beyond the "few days" window. Getting birthday cards in the mail is always an eye-opening experience. This is a weird introduction to this post. Cool.
I've been thinking about a particular aspect to Prince Fielder signing with the Mariners for a little while, and just this afternoon I saw that Greg Johns addressed it in his Mariners.com inbox. The polite thing to do would be to just link his inbox and tell you all to read it, but I'm going to write up my own post, even though it isn't going to say anything new. This is how much of an asshole I am. (Sorry, Greg)
I think we and others have said much of what there is to say about Prince Fielder as a potential free agent target. The pro-Fielder party has said its part, and the anti-Fielder party has issued its rebuttal. Fielder is a very terrific hitter who would fill a void in this lineup now and down the road, yes. Fielder will also cost a steamboat of money and could be declining by the time the M's are ready to compete, yes. There are the predictable pros and the predictable cons, and most all of us have a position. I don't think there are Mariners fans who are on the fence. I think every Mariners fan who's aware of the situation either wants the team to try to sign Fielder, or doesn't want the team to try to sign Fielder.
But there's a complication, here. A complication that has gotten some attention, but not nearly enough: why would Prince Fielder want to sign with the Mariners in the first place?
Think about it. Think about how the Mariners look to a guy like Fielder. Not only do they play in a pitcher-friendly park. Not only do they play half their games further away from Fielder's home in Florida than any other team. They are rebuilding. Here is Prince Fielder's probable impression of the 2011 Mariners:
- Bad
And here is Prince Fielder's probable impression of the 2010 Mariners:
- Bad
The Mariners are not an attractive organization to free agents. Maybe that's not fair; they're attractive to some. But they're not particularly attractive to Prince Fielder. Prince Fielder wants to put up numbers, and Prince Fielder wants to win, and however much we support the ongoing rebuild, Prince Fielder isn't going to be excited by some young kids and unproven minor league talent. He's going to want to play with some established good hitters, and some established good pitchers.
Which isn't to say that Fielder couldn't be lured. Money has a funny way of making people more open-minded. But money is pretty much the only way that the Mariners could get Fielder and Scott Boras' attention, which means we wouldn't be talking about the Mariners potentially signing Fielder to a market contract. We'd be talking about the Mariners potentially signing Fielder to a mammoth contract. There are going to be good teams bidding for Fielder's services, and the Mariners would probably have to outbid all of them to stand a chance.
We all want Prince Fielder. It would be stupid not to. Prince Fielder is an incredible player. If Prince Fielder cost $1 million, 100% of us would support his signing with the Mariners. But of course, Prince Fielder won't cost $1 million. He'll cost many more millions than that, and as the dollar figure rises, the percentage figure drops. I don't know how much it would cost the Mariners to sign Fielder, but I'm almost certain that, at that amount, I would not be in favor.
Maybe there's something to the whole Fielder/Jack Zduriencik relationship. Maybe. But do you really think Fielder would sign a market-rate contract with the Mariners, or a below-market-rate contract with the Mariners, because he knows the general manager? That's more preposterous than a viscous andesite flow extending more than ten kilometers from its original vent. Preposterous!
It's probably been a waste of time, talking about Prince Fielder so much. I can't imagine that he's going to sign a free agent contract with the Seattle Mariners. There are many reasons for that.
57 comments
|
2 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
"He'll cost many more millions than that, and as the dollar figure rises, the percentage figure drops"
Graph the S**t Son!
I took a shortcut through Iceberg Alley...
I wasn't serious.
He wouldn’t even have the data unless he queried the community. I certainly wouldn’t expect Jeff, Mathew or anyone to fulfill a request of this sort anyways.
I should have known about the swearing as I have read this sight daily for many many moons.
.
I took a shortcut through Iceberg Alley...
Neither is a good option at their market value.
I took a shortcut through Iceberg Alley...
I thought it would be as simple as Scott Boras is his agent.
Scott Boras prefers his clients to sign with whoever offers the most money. Prince Fielder doesn’t have to like us more or less than he does any other club; we just have to outbid everyone.
I was in the anti-sign camp, but now that I know Fielder plays the taiko drums he gets a blank check!
How come you can do all this other great shit, but you can't lie the fuck down and sleep?
by JAH on Nov 8, 2011 8:42 PM PST reply actions 4 recs
The taiko drum is very important here.
The taiko drum is a Japanese drum, after all, and the Mariners and the Athletics are going to be playing in Japan to start next season. He has to sign with one of us!
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors
by JY on Nov 8, 2011 10:10 PM PST up reply actions
How is this not green?
I got goons.
by Dikembe Meiztombo on Nov 10, 2011 11:57 AM PST up reply actions
That's more preposterous than a viscous andesite flow extending more than ten kilometers from its original vent.
I hear ya, bro. More than eight kilometers would be a rarity — but ten? No effin’ way.
Finally somebody puts the whole thing in perspective.
by Brother Fox on Nov 8, 2011 9:30 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
My Mariners fandom will truly be tested if the Mariners sign Prince Fielder to a massive contract.
That would not sit well with me. However, if the Mariners somehow signed Prince Fielder to a $1 million contract, I’d be pretty excited.
"Perhaps the worst comment I've ever seen on LL." - sanford_and_son.
by Ride the Apocalypse on Nov 8, 2011 10:48 PM PST reply actions
There is no chance Fielder wants to play 81 games in Safeco.
However, even if we have no contact with Boras at all he’ll suggest strongly that we’re deep in discussions with them, and that Fielder really does love Seattle. We’ll get our hopes up, until we realize that we’re just a pawn to drive up his eventual contract somewhere else. Mariner’s front office should issue a preemptive blanket denial now.
I'd say that's a bad idea
Having Prince Fielder sign for a competing team for the most money possible is going to benefit the Mariners. Why not drive up the price? Unless you’re thinking it’ll set a higher benchmark for other free agents, in which case, sure.
The idiot formerly known as pkyankeefan! Now in Technicolour!
by Hasan Paliwala on Nov 9, 2011 4:51 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Why not?
Safeco is very favorable for big lefty mashers who pull the ball like Fielder does. Here’s Fielder’s hit profile at Miller Park overlaid Safeco’s dimensions, and you can see that Prince really won’t lose too much power here, especially if he continues to pull the ball:
Every King needs a Prince
by ManifestDestiny on Nov 9, 2011 7:28 AM PST up reply actions
Does Miller Park have crosswinds and heavy sea air?
I don’t think you can overlay spray charts for one park over another and get an accurate sense for how fly balls would travel. Grounders are likely mostly the same, modulo defense of opposing teams that the hitter faced… but the ball carries differently.
All that said, Safeco IS built for lefties, true.
by Chris_FB on Nov 9, 2011 7:47 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Where did you pull that from?
That graphic is pretty useful.
by thehemogoblin on Nov 9, 2011 4:04 PM PST up reply actions
Making an absolutist statement like "there is no chance" is a fantastic way to be wrong. Of course there's a chance. Unless you actually are Prince Fielder.
Also, even if what you surmise were true
we’re just a pawn to drive up his eventual contract somewhere else.
and
Mariner’s front office should issue a preemptive blanket denial now.
are quite incongruent sentiments. If the Mariners cannot have Prince Fielder, the next best thing for them is that whatever team does get Prince Fielder is forced to overpay for him. So the Mariners should not issue a preemptive denial now, or ever. They should instead do the opposite and profess much interest so as to increase the apparent demand. It’s simple logic.
by Matthew on Nov 9, 2011 12:26 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Doesn't seem like it would make much difference if Fielder signs with an NL team...
One could argue it even hurts in the long run if the Mariners were to continually do this because those inflated contracts are likely to be used as benchmarks whenever the Mariners finally are ready to spend money (though I admit it’s a bit of a tenuous argument).
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
I just can't muster up dissapointment that my team is potentially taking a stab at one of the best hitters in baseball.
Mariners fans almost come pre-programmed to always be thinking about future costs and future benefits, but hot damn, would the present ever get a lot more exciting.
I enjoyed Sexson until his unfortunate collapse.
If we’re going to lose we might as well be entertained by it.
I know from a rational, big-picture persepective it's probably not the smartest move
But I’m tired of being rational and big-picture. I’m in the camp that would like to see the M’s be a .500 team in 2012 and compete for the playoffs in 2013. Any high-faulting rebuilding plan that takes any longer than that is realistically a rebuilding plan without Felix. I think Z and the rest of the front office need to show Felix (and the fans) that they’re serious about making this a winning team in the near future. And Grady Sizemore and Chris Capuano don’t send that message. If the risk of having a $25 million albatross on the roster in 2017 is what it takes to see playoff baseball in Seattle in 2014 then I think it’s a risk worth taking.
Signing Prince Fielder does not set up the Mariners to win in 2013 better than not signing Prince Fielder.
M's fan newly relocated to SF My homepage
Well you see, the future is less predictable than the present.
It’s easier to project how well a FA signing will do the year you sign them than a year after that.
So signing a big-name FA (or whatever we would do) in 2013 is more likely to be money well spent in 2013 than signing a big-name FA in 2012.
M's fan newly relocated to SF My homepage
And if Prince Fielder was available in both 2012 and 2013, your comment would mean something.
But he isn’t so instead you have overgeneralized.
I don't think it's wise to spend big money on a long-term FA in a year you don't plan to compete in general.
M's fan newly relocated to SF My homepage
And I don't think it's wise to pass on one of the league's best hitters
Just because you don’t believe your team to be playoff ready in the next 12 months. But that’s just me.
I don't think it's wise...
…is consume your entire payroll on one player when you’re still trying to get the rest of the team up to average. It leaves you no room to improve the team in later years.
But that’s just me.
And then ditching everyone else!
Fat joke!
by Jeff Sullivan on Nov 9, 2011 5:42 PM PST up reply actions
Well hey now, if we are only paying Prince $90 million, it seems we might have a little extra cash for someone else.
Maybe Eric Byrnes? Eric Byrnes and Prince Fielder would be the greatest duo ever.
by Patrick Stites on Nov 9, 2011 7:19 PM PST up reply actions
Are the Mariners still rebuilding?
With most of the rebuilding talent is already playing in the big leagues and 2 high priced stars under contract I wouldn’t be too shocked if the Mariners go after Fielder. This team needs to win now not in 5 years, a new bunch of guys will be needed by then.
Geoff Baker apparently really really wants Prince Fielder on this team.
or really really want the traffic that talking up Prince Fielder might bring.
This is not unusual for local mainstream media types.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
As much as it pains me to say, he does have a point.
I’m not 100% sold on signing Fielder, but being against it because you don’t expect the team to competing in 2012 is a weak excuse (especially when there are other, much better reasons). You can’t count on projected 2013 free agents to still be there next year if you think 2013 is the year to make the leap. Maybe it’s done via trade, but at some point there has to be a significant addition to the team’s offense and I’m not sure i see it from within the organization.
No matter where you go, there you are.
Geoff Baker's latest point is a point I've been working into a post for several days now.
He’s exactly right and now I’m a bit peeved that he wrote it before I got a chance to. Stupid beautiful central Oregon.
by Matthew on Nov 9, 2011 3:36 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Look on the bright side.
He didn’t get to experience beautiful, central Oregon.
by Aussie Mariner on Nov 9, 2011 4:00 PM PST up reply actions
What part of beautiful Central Oregon did you enjoy?
(resident Central Oregon fanboy)
by thehemogoblin on Nov 9, 2011 4:09 PM PST up reply actions
All parts.
I just went there and all parts were being enjoyed
I am not a Mariners fan and if this question is too tedious or complex for a short answer, forgive me, but
What is the basis for the thought that the Mariners will be contenders in 2013? I can see how the pitching has the chance to be truly phenomenal with Felix and Pineda being potentially joined by Taijuan Walker and James Paxton during the year, but I’m struggling to see how the position players can hold up their end of the bargain (despite it admittedly being less of a burden than it is for other teams).
Even if Smoak bounces back well next year, which doesn’t seem unreasonable, and Ackley adjusts and develops, how much more do you feel comfortable penciling in for 2013? Are there some prospects who started the year at the lower levels of the Mariners system who broke out that I perhaps missed? Ichiro will be playing in his age 39.5 at the start of the 2013 season and Gutierrez seems like a large question mark moving forward to me.
One of the things I was struck by this season is how hard it is to make the playoffs in the AL. New York, Tampa Bay, Boston and possibly Toronto are likely to be good teams in 2013. The AL West looks to be easier, but I’m not sure how much easier. Even with losses to free agency, the Angels and Rangers look to have a similar or greater number of players in place for 2013.
Please note that I am not saying the Mariners can not compete in 2013. I am saying that I don’t have the confidence in them to compete in 2013 that would warrant committing that much money this offseason.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
*Ichiro will be 39.5 at the start of 2013.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
The team's top prospects are pitchers. Most of them are expected to debut before or during the 2013 season.
The Mariners played a lot of youth in 2011, and are expected to do so again in 2012. By 2013 we should have a good idea of who’s going to stick, and thus ought to know what positions we will have to upgrade. Meanwhile, the Ichiro contract will be off the books (and Figgins will be in his final year of his deal), allowing the team greater financial flexibility to fill in holes.
Doesn't it seem unreasonable to expect
that many (very) young guys to come in and be above average to all start level pitchers right away? Walker pitched all of 2011 in A ball, which makes him being on the 2013 Opening Day roster [or, more relevantly, being a significant contributor over the first half of the season] fairly unlikely, right? That’s a 3 levels he would have to get through in one year. Paxton is even farther behind.
Furthermore, I’d argue that with Felix and Pineda (and the Mariners home ballpark) that starting pitching isn’t really the concern for 2013. Also, while having a lot of money coming off the books undoubtedly helps, it looks to me that there are more positions than can be filled with All Star to MVP caliber talent via free agency.
I’m asking these questions because I definitely don’t know the Mariners as well as y’all do here; the perception I’m getting from LL and USSM is that Mariners’ fans are fairly certain the team will be seriously competing for the playoffs in 2013…and I see a lot of holes.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
Walker is one of the players who may or may not be ready by some point in 2013.
Paxton (who is not further behind Walker in development; Paxton is older and has pitched in AA) and Hultzen are due earlier than later in 2012.
Starting pitching may not be “the concern” of 2013, but adding WAR to the team is adding WAR to the team.
Also, while having a lot of money coming off the books undoubtedly helps, it looks to me that there are more positions than can be filled with All Star to MVP caliber talent via free agency.
I apologize, but I don’t believe I’m seeing your point here. Go on?
I did actually
Drove through it on my way down to Arizona. Great place this time of year. Thought of looking up Jamie Burke when I passed his hometown.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Lookout Landing
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- The Juice: Nelson Cruz matches career high eight RBIs, Pujols stays hot in Seattle
- Benches clear at Fenway as Red Sox-Rays rivalry heats up
- Keeping good company: Albert Pujols becomes fourth-youngest player to hit 450 home runs
- Giancarlo Stanton misses cutoff man, and Logan Morrison is thankful he did (Video)
- Snoop Dogg delivers memorable first pitch at U.S. Cellular Field
