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Mythbusting

I don't know how far back this goes, but the Seattle Mariners are thought to be a family-friendly organization, and they've long been thought to be a family-friendly organization. I don't mean that people think the Mariners place a lot of importance on family-friendliness; I mean that there are a lot of people who think family-friendliness is the essence of the Mariners' mission statement. There exists a belief - not unanimous, but pervasive - that the Mariners cater to children and their parents with just about everything they do. There was a lot of this in the early part of the last decade, and still you hear about it now.

Yesterday, during an otherwise quiet weekend, the Mariners traded Josh Lueke to the Rays. One point reminds of the other, and given the perception of the Mariners organization, I thought I'd take this chance to quickly discuss a couple recent experiences.

It was in the middle of December in 2009 that the Mariners traded Carlos Silva and a backpack full of Benjamins to the Cubs for Milton Bradley. I vividly remember that morning - still basking in the afterglow of the Cliff Lee trade, I arrived at my old work and saw a Tweet I never could've imagined from Larry Stone. The Mariners were trading a guy who was expensive and bad for a guy who was expensive and talented, albeit a guy with major personality concerns.

I don't need to go over Bradley's history. You're all familiar with Bradley's history - maybe not with every detail, but with enough of them. That history was well-established at the time of the trade. It was well-established, and well-known. In Bradley, the Mariners were taking a chance on perhaps baseball's most famous malcontent.

And then they stuck by him, for a while. The Mariners didn't only trade for Milton Bradley. They traded for Milton Bradley, and kept him, through a handful of meltdowns both minor and major, and through an arrest. Bradley was not good in 2010, and ended the season on the disabled list. During the winter, he got arrested. In 2011, he was the Opening Day left fielder. He was dropped in May, but only after he continued to underperform at the plate and in the field.

Then there's Josh Lueke. Lueke, as you remember, came over in the other Cliff Lee trade, in early July 2010. Lueke was not well-known, because he was a relief pitcher prospect, but he was a relief pitcher prospect who had faced rape and sodomy charges, and who had pleaded no contest to a lesser charge. Lueke's history quickly emerged, in excruciating detail, and in an otherwise dull and dreary season, it became a major story. People found out.

The Mariners made attempts at damage control, some sensible and some bewildering. Lueke finished the season with Tacoma while lesser-qualified teammates got September promotions. But then Lueke remained and broke camp with the Mariners in 2011. After he struggled early on, he was demoted to Tacoma, but then he earned his way back and got a fair amount of work in the final few months. Sunday, the Mariners traded Lueke away, but not for pennies - rather, for a cheap lefty-hitting catcher who's shown the ability to get on base.

Over the last two calendar years, the Mariners have acquired Milton Bradley and Josh Lueke. Both players came with colorful pasts that didn't jive with the family-friendly image many have of the organization. The Mariners then proceeded to give Bradley and Lueke extended opportunities to perform, passing over earlier opportunities to get rid of them. It would've been easy for the M's to ditch Bradley and Lueke earlier than they did - easy and justifiable - but they didn't, and ultimately, Bradley was dropped because he didn't play well, and Lueke was traded because the M's saw a chance to get a cheap young catcher. The Mariners actually traded Lueke for what seems like a good return.

The lesson to be learned here is that, while the Mariners might make family-friendliness a priority, it is not their guiding principle. Their guiding principle is amassing as much talent as they can. Maybe that isn't much of a lesson, and maybe you already assumed as much, but this is more for the extremists out there than it is for you. It is impossible to reconcile a belief that the Mariners are family-friendly first with the acquisitions of Bradley and Lueke. Impossible. Therefore, the belief must be incorrect.

Yes, the Mariners are family-friendly. They ought to be. They need to make money, and families have money. If anything, though, the Bradley and Lueke moves might indicate that it's less of a priority for them than it is for some other teams. Maybe it isn't, I don't know, but the attempted family-friendliness of the Mariners and the attempted family-friendliness of the Mariners' roster are two related but separate things that one mustn't conflate.

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That picture!

It always looks like Lueke is about to throw up and Figgins is trying to not embarrass him by recognizing that.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Nov 28, 2011 1:23 PM PST reply actions  

I never really though of them as being family-frinedly in that way.

Having lived in a few different major league cities it seems like every fan base makes these same complaints, but really I don’t think family-friendliness is ever much of a concern for the GM in assembling players. It seems to me that family-friendliness is really just a way for the marketing people to try and get people to come out for 82 home games when the product on the field isn’t very compelling.

by wetzelcoal on Nov 28, 2011 1:27 PM PST reply actions  

/You Gotta Love These Guys!

The statistics you don't compile never lie.
-Stephen Colbert

by kentcheesehead on Nov 28, 2011 2:54 PM PST up reply actions  

Jose Guillen had a bit of a rep before he joined the Ms

but then he went and had a good year, and all of a sudden his “hot-headedness” became “fire” and “motivation for the clubhouse” and all that.

You still see comments on other sites to the effect of “what this team needs is another Jose Guillen”.

by Eyebrows on Nov 28, 2011 3:27 PM PST via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

How many families that could afford season tickets every game anyways?

Remember when Vegas tried to cater to the family? Let’s be real. Sports (attendance) is about winning. Vegas is Vegas.

by sofa_king on Nov 28, 2011 1:45 PM PST via mobile reply actions  

Thats the point though.

How do you get people to keep coming to watch your awful team when its been a decade since they made the playoffs? At least part of the answer is downplaying the baseball and playing up the nostalgic shared emotional experience of a day at the ball park, and the sales of of merchandise for children who are too young to know what baseball is that go with it. (this is not an exaggeration, A girl sitting in front of me at a Twins game last year, wearing about $150 worth of Twins merchandise asked her mom what baseball was).

by wetzelcoal on Nov 28, 2011 1:54 PM PST up reply actions  

Maybe I'm in the minority here but,

when I see the Mariners as an overly family-friendly organization, I envision that pertaining more to the gameday experience than personnel moves. It has minimal impact on performance, but a bit on perception and attitude. The Mariners seem to focus most on “fan friendliness” in the branding department and, while this seems like a good idea when the on-field product is subpar, it can be unwise to cater to your least passionate fans—families looking to only make it to a couple games—instead of those who genuinely enjoy watching baseball and would like to make it to several.

Everyone has their own “the ushers were dicks to me or someone I know when all I was trying to do is cheer” and these seem like little bits of anecdotal evidence but it does add up. When the team itself gives off the impression that they don’t take themselves all that seriously, it makes it more difficult for the fans to do so.

by hova9 on Nov 28, 2011 1:56 PM PST reply actions  

I think this is an attitude that's a little backward..

….because catering to the least passionate fans means you are catering to the fans that are least attached to your product. Keeping them attached means catering to people who have at least an interest in the product, which, in turn, are the 2nd easiest people to sell to. The easiest? The hard core fans, where little you do would drive them off (that wouldn’t drive off the least committed fans).

That’s not rocket science; that’s marketing 101 and I don’t see any reason to change it.

by rtang on Nov 28, 2011 2:01 PM PST up reply actions  

There was never enough public information for me to decide exactly who let him go or specifically why.

As far as I remember it was only speculated in the media that Armstrong or Howard let him go. I don’t really remember all the details now, but I was a little upset. He was an entertaining, intelligent, and rather candid person at the couple of Q & A’s he attended. Wasn’t he sick during the one at Benaroya?

by Kermit. on Nov 28, 2011 9:08 PM PST up reply actions  

I think it's more of a family friendly ballpark thing,

Because most M’s fans don’t cuss and scream inappropriate things. And most of the fans really frown on other fans doing in it. I don’t have any real stats, but I do know for fact that if you stand up and scream “If you don’t get your shit together, you fat fuck, you’re going to get put on a inner tube back Cuba” You get some really really really dirty looks.

Fuck the Angels

by InSpokane on Nov 28, 2011 5:36 PM PST reply actions  

I threw food at El Duque the last time I saw him.

Wasn’t at a family friendly ballpark though, just a grocery store. Or a restaurant, I can’t remember now.

by Craptastic-J on Nov 28, 2011 7:12 PM PST up reply actions  

We should research 19th century curses and then use them exclusively.

If costumes accompany it, all the better.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Nov 28, 2011 7:49 PM PST up reply actions  

If we're thinking globally, there are all kinds of opportunities.

“Hey Figgins! May you live in interesting times!”

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Nov 28, 2011 9:46 PM PST up reply actions  

Reminds of this

article.

“May God give you to search for your children with a Geiger counter” and “Brush your teeth, my dick will be inspecting soon!” still make me laugh.

by Goose on Nov 28, 2011 10:29 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

I'll always blame John Daniels (Rangers GM) for sandbagging us about Lueke

Right at the time that trade went down, there were a couple of revealing quotes that made it into the news before the PR people got in front of the story and started to spin. One was Armstrong asking Carmen about Lueke’s arrest. Carmen’s reply was “It’s fine, he was acquitted” because that’s what John Daniels had told him. JD confirmed this quote and later apologized for using the word acquitted. (because it was not true). Sadly, Carmen, being an old-school baseball guy, trusted that the other GM would not lie to him about the key piece of the trade. He was fired for not checking the facts. In Carmen’s defense, this all happened very fast. Remember that the Rangers came in at the very last minute to beat the Yankees package on that trade, and throwing in Lueke was what put their package into the “too good to pass up” category. It always bothered me how JD didn’t get more blame in the press for lying about Lueke. It was a total sandbag move. BTW wikipedia has all the references.

We'll always have 2001

by 116 on Nov 29, 2011 11:47 AM PST reply actions  

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