Elias Rankings Getting the Boot

@Ken_Rosenthal
New rules take effect next winter. Elias rankings gone. Top FAs subject to comp if teams make them qualifying offers north of $12M. #MLB

6 months ago JY 19 comments 0 recs |

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Uh... this is a better system?

I suppose it would keep some players who were Type A’s from getting their team’s compensation picks, but are poorer teams going to take risks on offering 12+ million arbitration deals wontonly? The richer teams could still have an advantage.

Fans are typically idiots.

by The Typical Idiot Fan on Nov 19, 2011 1:33 PM PST reply actions

It all but eliminates picks for relievers, so that's something.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Nov 19, 2011 1:49 PM PST up reply actions

I suspect we're going to see a few $11,999,999 contracts in the next couple years

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by Corco on Nov 19, 2011 2:55 PM PST reply actions

Certainly there are guys on the market where teams are going to be willing to give up $11.99 million but not $12 million and a player

I guess it will test how much teams value their prospects, but I can’t see very many exactly $12 million contracts being handed out anymore.

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by Corco on Nov 19, 2011 3:16 PM PST up reply actions

Unless I am misunderstanding,

doesn’t it mean that the free agent’s old team will be compensated if the OLD team offers them a $12 mill contract? I don’t think the new team offering them $11.99 mill would make any difference.

by quacker27 on Nov 19, 2011 5:31 PM PST up reply actions

That's my interpretation.

by Patrick Stites on Nov 19, 2011 5:45 PM PST up reply actions

Ah, I missed that part then. I thought it was just raw signing price, which would obviously impose a fake ceiling

Never mind

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by Corco on Nov 19, 2011 6:15 PM PST up reply actions

Interesting

So if a team offers arbitration to one of their free agents, with a qualifying offer of $12 MM or more, then they’re entitled to compensation if he signs elsewhere? Previously, teams didn’t have to make a qualifying offer at the time they offered arbitration, but that could also be part of the rules change.

by nathaniel dawson on Nov 19, 2011 8:45 PM PST up reply actions

Could also result in a lot more performance-based incentives.

"Satisfaction is the enemy of success." SanFranPreps

by perfectstrat on Nov 20, 2011 11:31 PM PST up reply actions

I call this progress

Using the Elias rankings was so obviously flawed I don’t see why the players or owners would want to have kept it.

by Scrupio on Nov 19, 2011 4:09 PM PST reply actions

The thing is, I'm not sure that they're completely gone.

The way Rosenthal words it, it sounds as if “top” players will be subject to this one year, 12 million qualifying offer for draft pick compensation. But who defines what a “top” player is versus a not-top player? Guys like Fielder and Pujols are obvious, but guys who are on the border like Kelly Johnson and Ramon Hernandez are more nebulous. Rosenthal’s article is without the specifics, so without the specifics we can’t yet be sure if they’ve really improved draft pick compensation or not.

by JLC on Nov 19, 2011 4:24 PM PST up reply actions

I assumed a "top" player was any player who gets a contract bigger than $12 million, whether he's Albert Pujols or Willie Bloomquist

So the market would be defining a top versus non-top player. At least that’s what my take on it was, you’re right though, until we get the details it’s just speculation.

by BaronVonBullshit on Nov 19, 2011 5:17 PM PST up reply actions

Phillies got screwed over

by Punkhazard on Nov 19, 2011 4:32 PM PST reply actions

The big issue with this is that teams will offer slightly above average pitchers one year contracts for 12m, when the pitcher deserves at least 2/20.

Still, this is better the the old system, I suppose.

...and now I'm here

by CapSea on Nov 20, 2011 10:12 AM PST reply actions

But I don't think the new team loses anything

If I am understanding everything right, no picks are ever lost, just compensation picks gained by the old team (as long as they offered a qualifying offer of >$12M). What it does, in essence, is it obligates to smaller-spenders teams like Pittsburgh to make offers to their departing players, in order to gain anything in return.

I suppose players who’s contracts are right around that $12m/yr mark already may experience this, but it shouldn’t stop teams from being aggressive in signing new players. Actually, I can see it making them more aggressive, since they won’t be possibly losing their 1st/2nd round pick.

by brawlyjunk on Nov 20, 2011 12:08 PM PST up reply actions

How will this affect a team like the Yankees and one of their departing veterans?

Say, a guy wrapping up a long term contact, and he’s a player in his late 30’s.

by Kermit. on Nov 21, 2011 6:27 PM PST up reply actions

A bit more from ESPN

New agreement

Looks like teams that want to receive compensation have to make a qualifying one-year $12.4 MM offer to departing free agents. Not going to take effect until next year, though. This year is pretty much the same as the previous CBA, with a bit fewer players labeled as Type A.

Big tax on teams spending over slot in the draft, or on international free agents.

by nathaniel dawson on Nov 20, 2011 5:33 PM PST reply actions

The new luxury tax on international free agents is going to hurt the M's

As one of the more active international teams.

From the article Nathanial linked:

Owners gained one of their chief objectives: a restraint on the bonuses paid to amateur free agents, both those entering professional baseball from high schools and colleges and those coming to MLB organizations from abroad.
A tax of 75 percent to 100 percent will be imposed on the amount a team exceeds a threshold, and teams exceeding the threshold by higher amounts could lose first- and second-round draft picks.
For international free agents, such as players from the Dominican Republic and Venezuela, there will be a separate threshold and tax with penalties, and there will be a study committee that could put a new system in place later during the agreement.

Also, the threshold for Super two status changed. But it won’t affect Ackley since he already has a set contract (if I’m understanding things correctly). Pineda was already in line for Super-two status since he started the year with the Mariners.

Many Type A free agents in this offseason won’t count as Type A anymore as the threshold to count as Type A in the current system is being raised. After next season, a qualifying offer will have to be made before a team gets Compensation picks for players. This will hurt the AA model of trading for players just to get comp picks which I am assuming was the goal.

by CMC_Stags on Nov 21, 2011 11:28 AM PST up reply actions

Actually, Pineda is guaranteed not to be a Super Two

He’ll be at the tail end of the list in service time after two seasons. It’s the players that started their career in 2010 but missed getting a full year of service time, such as Justin Smoak, that will be at the top of the list for Super Two.

I’m not sure about Ackley. A quote from ESPN about his contract status:

“If he’s in the major leagues, his salary would be $500,000 next year, $600,000 in 2011, $900,000 in 2012, $1.5 million in 2013 and $500,000 in 2014. Once he is eligible for salary arbitration, Ackley can opt out of those salaries and negotiate new figures while going through the arbitration system.”

Major League contracts for draftees are kind of weird, so I’m not sure of this, but it looks to me like at whatever point he qualifies for arbitration, his old salary structure goes out the window. That $500,000 salary in 2014 would be toast if he qualifies for Super Two.

by nathaniel dawson on Nov 22, 2011 8:26 PM PST up reply actions