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Around SBN: The Most Dangerous Division in Sports

Why the Mariners Shouldn't Avoid Prince Fielder


So consider this me playing devil's advocate. The post before me offered some reasons as to why the Mariners should not sign Prince Fielder, and this post is merely the opposite. I offer only a few disclaimers.

1.) I am not so entrenched to believe that if the Mariners do not sign Prince Fielder that they did something wrong.

2.) This is not at all meant to be argumentative towards the post prior to me, only trying to foster some conversation.

3.) The poll at the end is really not supposed to be Rosterbating, but it probably is, and if it is, I apologize, it's just a point i see coming up a lot.

Star-divide

Now, the big guy, Prince Fielder. There are many reasons that the Mariners should be wary of a guy like Prince. First off, he's large, which can be good, as it puts one thusly in charge. But it can also be bad, because we all know fat people can't run anymore once they hit 30. 

Fat = Bad

Secondly, We have Smoak, and we have Carp, both of whom could possible hover anywhere from 1-4 WAR next year, 4 being my best case holy shit scenario for Smoak, but I think a 2 win season from either player wouldn't surprise anyone, which then begs the question, how much are we really getting from Fielder? He's a great player, but at the end of the day, he'll probably give you anywhere from 3-7 WAR, lets say he gives you 5 WAR and has a great season, you're essentially adding a ton of payroll and getting a net gain of about 3 WAR if you replace either smoak or carps production with fielder. 

Taking AB's away from Carp or Smoak (most likely Carp) = Kinda Bad

Thirdly, we have Felix, who is making 58 million dollars over the next three years (not 100% on that figure, but too lazy to google it) This is bad because even though its a great deal, it makes throwing 20+ million dollars at any other player difficult to do with a payroll that will hover around 85-115 million over the last decade.

Cost = Bad

 

Now, without further ado, the good. The delicious cream filled good.

First, DINGERS, holy crap does anyone remember what a home run looks like? This guys hits a lot of fucking Home Runs. I capitalized Home Runs because he hits so God Damned many of them. But in all seriousness, a healthy Justin Smoak should give you in my opinion, 22 +/- 3 dingers. Anywhere from 19-25 home runs from Justin Smoak, and I won't be impressed or disapointed. If he hits 15, thats a bummer, if he hits 30, I'm going to be mad we spent all that money on the fat guy who's hitting .220 and laughing at us. But I believe there is room for Carp Smoak Fielder and Wells in this lineup, I really don't think its reasonable to expect all three of the young guys to be contributing at a high level, So i say you let Wells and Carp fight over Left field, and you let Carp and Smoak fight over Designated Hitter. Realistically, you'll get 1100-1300 AB's out of LF and DH over the season, and i think 400 AB's for Smoak,Carp,and Wells is not bad if you just take away at bats from whoever is doing the worst.

So, Dingers = AWESOME

Second, Fielder is really good guys, like, holy shit, he's really good. And he's FUCKING 27! Here's a hypothetical situation, we don't sign Prince Fielder, we save our money, Ichiro's money comes off the books next year, or he extends at a more reasonable rate, and we head into the 2012 off-season with a shitload of money to spend. What on earth are we going to do with it, we could always add payroll through awesome trades, Votto may be available, and we could trade and extend him, but in any trade, we're going to have to give up more than just a ton of cash extending the guy, we'll also have to give up great prospects, and fuck that, prospects are basically lottery tickets, and who in America doesn't like to gamble? 

The point of this section is that the 2013 free agent class is GOD AWFUL. The best players available are Right handed catcher Mike Napoli, who will be 31, and hits in a little kids park right now. And Josh Hamilton, who, lets face it, is going to be 32 years old and incredibly expensive. There is a ton of great starting pitching available next offseason, but as far as position players, its complete garbage, anyone thats even worth looking at is already 30+ years old. Prince Fielder could be a very good player for the next five seasons. The key word being could. Eventually this club could be one player away from playoff contention, we can get a 27 year old player who if it takes us 2 seasons to be ready to compete, hey look hes 29 years old now, and he'll be mashing dingers in the middle of our order, I only fear that if this club needs that big bat next year, there won't be any around, and if there are, they are going to be incredibly scarce.

Age = Great

Quality of Player = Great

Okay, I know I've rambled a ton, and I want to thank anyone who took time to read this, I want to end with a poll though. I think most of the visceral reactions against signing Fielder came from the fact that Boras is asking for 20 years and 500 million dollars. I mean, of course he's asking for an absolute truckload of money, but lets consider all the teams that can spend with the mariners but are not going to be bidding for Fielder at all:

The Dodgers, Yankees, Red Sox, Brewers, Mets, Phillies, Tigers, White Sox, Cardinals, Twins, and Braves

 

That leaves only four other teams as realistic landing spots for Prince, 

The Rangers, Angels, Cubs, and Marlins.

I'm not going to get into why each club may or may not sign him, but I think the point is, we're not going to see a huge bidding war where fielder gets 8 years and 200 million dollars. The Marlins don't have THAT much money to spend, The angels have been stupid with their money lately, and the Rangers don't really need to upgrade their offense anymore. I think the Cubs are the most realistic landing spot for Fielder, but who knows? Not me, thats who.

At the end of the day, I think everyone will be pissed if the Mariners give Prince Fielder anything greater than or equal to 25 million per season, And I think everyone will be pleased if they give him 15 million per season. Of course everyone would be please, that would be amazing. So my poll is aimed at seeing where everyone's sweet spot is. What is your upper limit? 

So i offer up this poll, and i'm going to try and keep it from being Rosterbatory but i can't help it, feel free to flame me in the comments if it bothers you that I'm posting this. Let's assume that Fielder signs a 7 year contract with his next team for no reason whatsoever. If he is going to be here for 7 years . . .

Poll
What is the Highest Dollar amount per season that you would respond "I am okay with the Mariners making this deal"
< 21 Million per season
126 votes
21 Million
39 votes
22 Million
57 votes
23 Million
31 votes
24 MIllion
21 votes
>24 Million
26 votes

300 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 17 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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I like the counterpoint to my post

If he were available for $15M/4 years, it would worth the risk.

Average-Casey.blogspot.com

by Thurston24 on Nov 19, 2011 11:12 AM PST reply actions  

No way in hell he makes that deal.

I am convinced that Seattle sports teams exist to make me hate Seattle sports teams.

by the other side on Nov 19, 2011 11:36 AM PST up reply actions  

You're right.

He wouldn’t make that deal.

Average-Casey.blogspot.com

by Thurston24 on Nov 19, 2011 5:09 PM PST up reply actions  

Josh Willingham for DH!

1/3rd the price, 70% of the production

by valencia on Nov 20, 2011 4:14 AM PST reply actions  

Prince is not royal stock.

Smoak = Matt LaPorta 2.0 with a few more BB’s. Sorry, there’s just too many holes in the swing. Prince would be a HORRIBLE misallocation of funds. Safeco will suppress his power, which is already declining after the 50 & 46 HR peaks. The bad body types do decline faster unless you’re Babe Ruth. John Kruk is another example if you don’t want Mo Vaughn. The M’s are rebuilding and if Z-Man would just keep working what he does well (developing a farm system and prospects) and minimize his activities in an area he “needs to improve” (evaluation of MLB talent) all may be well in 2013, despite the Ichiro albatross. This could be a monster staff of SP’s by then with Felix, Pineda, Hultzen, and Paxton in the rotation. There are always power hitting 1B’s around if you need them and they don’t all cost > $10M. By 2015 the Prince will be toast and the M’s would be stuck with the shell.

by jjmalden on Nov 20, 2011 7:58 AM PST reply actions   1 recs

Maybe so. LOL. 3rd place with Prince in 2012, 3rd place without him in 2012. Better FA’s on market next year in my opinion.

by jjmalden on Nov 20, 2011 12:32 PM PST reply actions  

After Fielder and Pujols, as far as hitters go, this FA class is very sub par.

But I would like to know what you consider better options long term for next years free agents.

by Sambearpig on Nov 20, 2011 3:19 PM PST up reply actions  

Sure, that’s a good question. I’m ignoring players with club options after 2012 but I will include : M.Montero, Y.Molina, Napoli, Bourn, B.J.Upton, E.Aybar for up the middle positions, then Ethier and H.Kendrick would also be “good to have around”. My premise is up the middle (C/SS/CF) is the biggest area of need and it would be wiser to pick up two of these lesser priced pieces I’ve mentioned than one expensive power hitter who will possibly end up as DH only in a couple of years. For pitchers there’s Greinke, Hamels, Cain, Marcum, Danks but that’s not an area of need. of course. There’s also Victorino and J.Hamilton but they will be (32) by then. Except for N.Franklin I’m not sure our internal options will be ready to help. (Hope I hit right button to post as a reply)

by jjmalden on Nov 20, 2011 4:59 PM PST up reply actions  

I really like Montero, but outside of that,

BJ Upton : 150+ strikeouts 4 out of the last 5 seasons., career .250 hitter.
Y. Molina : I doubt he’ll ever leave St. Louis, but I would love molina on this team.
Napoli : Will be 31 and is right handed, I think Montero/Molina are much better options
Bourn : A .290 hitting speedster going into his 30s? I think I’ve heard this story before
Aybar : Good player, but we have Brendan Ryan on the cheap and Franklin/Triunfel basically for free
Ethier : Old, Declining
Kendrick : I think we have a second baseman for a while

The other thing to consider is that signing Fielder, while it’s expensive, doesn’t stop you from signing any of these players, I won’t get into the Mariners payroll, but there are always contracts coming off the books and being put onto the books. This team needs legit middle of the order hitters, it has none on the propect pipeline, and it has no better options in FA next season.

by Sambearpig on Nov 20, 2011 5:23 PM PST up reply actions  

The team doesn't need legit middle of the order hitters. The team just needs to be better at hitting.

I’m not for or against signing Fielder, but the reason that people don’t want him signed is because of damage control and the current status of the team. Right now we have maybe 8 players that either currently suck or are young and might suck out of our starting 9. If you spend all of your money on Fielder, and the remaining 7 players continue to suck or end up sucking you’re screwed.

Saving the money and spreading it around on multiple less great players is a form of damage control. If you upgrade the positions we’re lacking or make viable backups for the positions we might be lacking (looking at you, Outfield), then in the event that none of those players gets better, the damage it does to the team is less. Then next year you’ll both have more money coming off the books and the ability to continue to upgrade at any positions that are still lacking. Spending all of the money on Fielder makes that less possible.

...and now I'm here

by CapSea on Nov 20, 2011 5:29 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

I didn’t look at LF/RF/1B options for 2013. It’s a matter of approach, I guess. Sure, there are “flaws” in the players I listed, that’s why you can get two of them for the price of one Prince (or Albert). I’m of the school of thought that rebuilding requires being strong up the middle where positional scarcity is a factor, then branch out to fill in the corners of the IF and OF later. Ryan is a superior SS but in this lineup he is a luxury, ditto for Franklin in CF. I’m assuming that one of the 3B casting call or prospects will pan out and Dustin maintains current pace.

by jjmalden on Nov 20, 2011 5:51 PM PST up reply actions  

While that free agent class may look good now, it may be a different story come winter 2013

Some of those players will probably see a drop in production, and you’ll undoubtedly see some of them sign extensions, taking them out of the market. Free agency classes always look better a year or two in advance.

by nathaniel dawson on Nov 20, 2011 5:41 PM PST up reply actions  

Given that...

…and the fact that free agents are the least efficient way of getting wins, it should behoove a team to get all the wins from low-hanging fruit methods and save it for when there’s no wins left to get other ways.

And we can get plenty of wins other ways…

by rtang on Nov 20, 2011 6:34 PM PST up reply actions  

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