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A Quick Thought On The Win Difference Between Felix Hernandez And CC Sabathia

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Over the past several weeks, the discussion concerning the AL Cy Young race has turned into a discussion concerning Felix Hernandez and CC Sabathia, and the discussion concerning Felix Hernandez and CC Sabathia has turned into a discussion concerning the value and importance of pitcher wins. It seems like there's a new article or three every single day, and each of them end up reaching one of two conclusions.

I've tried to stay out of it, both because there's still time left in the season, and because I'm personally unsure of what the Cy Young represents. However, as long as people are still talking about wins, I thought I'd throw in a little nugget of my own.

As the season winds down, much has been made, and much will continue to be made, of the difference in wins between Felix and Sabathia. Right now, that difference stands at eight, as Sabathia reached 20 and Felix has 12. Now, I don't need to go to great detail to tell any of you about the problems with wins. They depend on luck, they depend on offensive performance, and they depend on things that happen after you're already out of the game.

So as far as I'm concerned, wins should pretty much be ignored entirely. But as long as some people are unwilling to do that, I offer something similar to wins that adjusts for that last point - the one about stuff that happens after the starting pitcher is out. I think everyone can agree that no pitcher should benefit or be penalized if his offense later stages a rally, or if his bullpen blows a lead. Those are completely and utterly independent events.

To adjust for that, we go to Win Expectancy. For example: on May 13th, in a game against the Orioles, Felix allowed one run over seven innings, and departed with a 5-1 lead. Brandon League then blew it in spectacular fashion, and the M's fell 6-5. Felix didn't get a win. However, the Mariners' win expectancy at the time of his departure was 95.8%, and that's way more important. 

So that's what I'm going to focus on. I went through all 32 of both Felix and Sabathia's starts and noted the win expectancy after they faced their final batter of the game. Following are the averages:

Felix: 54.5%
Sabathia: 70.7%

We see, on average, a 16.2 percentage point advantage for Sabathia. Over the span of 32 starts, which each of them have made to date, that comes out to a difference of 5.04 'deserved' wins. Which is a good deal lower than the difference we currently see of eight 'actual' wins.

Which is interesting. And then you can start talking about the breathtaking difference in run support.

This isn't, of course, how I'd go about thinking through my hypothetical Cy Young vote. And I know win expectancy is based on the average team, and doesn't adjust to take into account that you're dealing with the Mariners or the Yankees. But this is one of those things that anyone who takes wins seriously should consider. The eight-win gap we see right now isn't really reflective of anything.

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What I would like voters to recognize is the value that Felix Hernandez and CC Sabathia hold to their respective teams.

There isn’t any question that Felix Hernandez has had the better numbers in everything outside of Pitcher Wins and that’s whether you’re counting historically-relevant numbers (1st in ERA and .70 ahead of CC, 1st in strikeouts and 39 ahead of CC, 1st in innings) as well as advanced statistics (3rd in FIP and .57 ahead of CC, t-2nd in xFIP and .60 ahead of CC, 3rd in WAR) Statistically nobody could make an argument that CC Sabathia has had a better season than Felix Hernandez, so they have to go to pitcher wins.

And if you go to Pitcher Wins, you’re justifying your selection by saying that the pitcher had the most value to his team. But does it really? If you believe this then you should look at the entire picture.

CC Sabathia has a 20-6 record. But the Yankees are 22-10 in his starts. Out of 22 Yankee victories he got credited with 20 wins by this very old fashioned standard of what a “win” is. 2-4 in starts that he didn’t record a decision.

Felix Hernandez has a 12-11 record. The Mariners are 16-16 in his starts, so the M’s are actually a .500 ballclub when Felix is starting. Kind of amazing considering that this is one of the worst offenses in the modern era. As we know, they are a .383 team overall. In all Non-Felix starts the team is 41-76 good for a .350 winning percentage. So in a way this team is playing .150 winning percentage point better with Felix than without him. So its roughly the difference between the Pirates and the Marlins in terms of how good of a chance this team has winning when Felix starts.

Compared to CC?

The Yankees have a .606 winning percentage overall. A .687 winning percentage when Sabathia starts which isn’t too bad at all. It’s to be expected. They are a .584 winning percentage team in non-CC starts. They are a great team when CC starts. But when he doesn’t start? They’re only good enough to win the NL Central, NL West, NL Wild Card, and AL West.

Now, I’m not saying you punish CC because the team is obviously very good around him, this is out of his control (much like pitching wins) but who holds the most value to his team in the American League? There really aren’t any numbers to support CC in that argument either.

Anybody who has watched the Mariners this season knows the struggle Felix goes through and his fight to stay in the game for as long as possible because that gives his team their best (and oftentimes only) chance to win the game thanks to the non-support of the bullpen as well as the offense. And so Felix has thrown 5 complete games (to CC’s 1) and gone 8 or more innings 14 (!) times for an M’s record of 11-3 in those games.

Felix doesn’t have the most “Pitcher Wins” but he’s given his ballclub the best chance to win.

Sorry for the long rant.

by Kenneth Arthur on Sep 21, 2010 2:39 PM PDT reply actions  

I was looking at the same kind of thing

I calculated the difference between the winning percentage of the Ms in games where Felix does not have a decision and Felix’s winning percentage. Then I did the same thing for the Yankees.

Felix has a record of 0.165 better than the non-felix decision M’s
CC has a record of 0.197 better than the non-cc decision Yankees

That is pretty close. This is just a really rough cut analysis, and i did it before I read the analysis above, which I think says basically the same thing.

by New England Fan on Sep 21, 2010 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

A fun way to compare their contributions to pitcher wins

would be to go through each start inning-by-inning and give the runs the Yankees scored for CC to Felix and the runs the M’s scored for Felix to CC and see how their win-loss records shake out.

by n8tron3030 on Sep 22, 2010 11:29 AM PDT reply actions  

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