Has Ichiro earned a trade--and should he get it?
by Greybear on Aug 6, 2010 5:35 PM PDT
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PrintA quick perusal of lesser blogs reveals a constant drumbeat to trade Ichiro, usually because of his perceived shortcomings and the size of his contract. This is NOT one of those posts. Rather, my question is whether Ichiro has earned the right to be traded, and if so, whether it would make sense for the Mariners to do it. My personal opinion is that the answers are Yes and Yes.
Ichiro has provided the Mariners with ten stellar seasons. In addition to his well-above average defensive skills, he has provided nine consecutive years of over 200 hits (and is on track for the tenth) a career .333 batting average and an average .117 OPS+. The Mariners, by any metric I can think of, have certainly gotten their money's worth. Hell, just getting to watch him play for ten years has been a joy.
Having said all that, hasn't he earned his ticket out of baseball hell? Especially since there is no reason to believe that the Mariners will seriously contend until at least 2012, and possibly not then. From a purely humanitarian perspective, he's certainly earned a trade to a contender. And lord knows the Mariners have done that for other players over the years. Keeping him on this team is cruelty, pure and simple. Of course the Mariners, like any other organization, are not in the philanthropy business. Trading Ichiro would be a HUGE white flag, that's a fact. But he'll be 37 in October, and even with his phenomenal conditioning program, at some point he will begin to decline. And there's the question of whether the Mariners would want to resign him after this contract (assuming he would be willing to.) Remember, a player who decides to retire doesn't even bring you draft picks, and I can easily see Ichiro deciding to retire after this contract.
The issue then is whether you could get a decent prospect package for him over the winter. I suspect you could, but of course there is no way to predict what it would be. All in all, I think it's time to let him go and use the haul to build the farm system, but I'd love to hear the arguments against.
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Ummm
Because he seems like a rational human being? Because he’s admitted that playing on these teams is incredibly depressing?
"Get offa my lawn!"
I think he wants to win, but all indications have indicated he wants it to be in Seattle
Seattle is a culturally friendly city that is as logistically convenient to Japan as any city in the country- it makes sense for his family to stay in Seattle
Determined, Jonesing Commentor
Actually
that had no trace of sarcasm in it.
"Get offa my lawn!"
C'mon katal
His second post was sarcasm too
by WestCoastBias. on Aug 7, 2010 10:11 PM PDT up reply actions
I didn't mean to stir anything up.
I was merely trying to ask if you had been prompted to write this fanpost because you had new information about Ichiro. I don’t think I’ve ever read him say he wants to leave Seattle and he has many quotes saying how much he likes this city. That’s really all we have to go on without devolving into speculation.
I agree you though, it would be rational to want to leave a terrible team (see Grienke, Zack) if winning a championship was your main priority. Ichiro seems to value a lot of different factors beyond that.
He costs $17 million a year. We're not getting much of anything back for him unless we eat a lot of his salary.
Also, he’s the second-best player on the team, he’s signed only through 2012, he shows no signs of slowing down, he seems to like Seattle (he re-signed during 2007 and certainly enjoyed himself immensely last year), and hasn’t asked to be traded. He might be the surest 4 WAR in baseball. We have a slight but real chance of competing next year if our young guys (Pineda, Smoak, Ackley, Saunders, Moore, the coming bullpen) and an excellent chance of competing in 2012. There’s no reason to even think of trading Ichiro if you like him. It only encourages idiots who think he hurts the team (the ones you can’t tune out when they’re sitting behind you at the game) to get more down on him.
Beyond having to eat salary, he'll also be a 10-and-5 player after this season (I think that's when that kicks in).
Like Griffey, this has the potential to hamper our ability to get the best deal for him.
Personally, I think he’s more valuable to the Mariners than as a trade chip.
Hey, cool. I don't think there's been an Ichiro trade discussion anywhere
For at LEAST five minutes.
Three things:
-There’s almost no chance that the organization wouldn’t attempt to accommodate Ichiro if he went to them and expressed a desire to be traded. He’s still here, so we can logically assume he hasn’t asked.
-Ichiro doesn’t motivate himself like a lot of other players, as far as we can tell; he’s very much about playing his own game and just doing the best he can every night. I know we’re conditioned to think that makes him “selfish” (and I’m not going to debate that here) but it means that his psyche is just fine even on a bad team.
-There’s no indication we’d get some awesome package of prospects back for him even if he were traded. Ichiro is likely to be able to fend off a decline phase much better than others due to his conditioning and skillset, but he’s still 37 years old. We’d get a mediocre-to-good return, not a franchise-reshaping one.
If he asks for a trade, we should trade him. But until then, we shouldn't even think about it.
It’s as simple as that, I think.
I understand the "Trade Ichiro" crowd less now than I ever did before.
He’s going to be 37 next season and is owed $34 Million for the next two years. Plus he has a limited no-trade clause.
What treasure chest of prospects do people think we’re sitting on with Ichiro? We likely can’t move him to any team without taking on some salary. That’s not mentioning the PR nonsense that will be associated with such a move.
And really, what’s the point? Yea, I know this post is more about thinking of getting Ichiro to the World Series but then that potentially means giving him away for free. We simply are not going to get anything remotely resembling a Cliff Lee haul if we trade Ichiro.
Despite how this season is turning out it’s not impossible to build a good Mariner team with Ichiro on it, nor would it take very long. That’s likely to please Ichiro the most.
Not to forget
That limited no-trade clause becomes 10-and-5 rights at the end of this season.
Rooting for lovable losers since 1984.
by seattlecougar on Aug 7, 2010 8:58 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't really know much about contract lingo, can someone explain 10-and-5 rights?
What's the deal with corn nuts?
by BaronVonBullshit on Aug 7, 2010 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions
I believe that if a player has 10 years of ML service
and if the last five were for the same club, that player then gains no-trade rights.
Andrew Baldwin would like to take issue with your comment.
Mariners/D Broncos/BSU Broncos fan in Seattle
The first rule of Lookout Landing is...
I think, and I bet several people will agree, the simple answer is yes.
If he asks for a trade, he has earned enough pull in baseball with his past performance and projected ability going forward that the Mariners would honor his request if a scenario that made sense for the both of them presented itself.
Things can and do change over the course of two to three years, so it is entirely possible that he'd welcome a trade
That said, there is no indication that this is the case, so why discuss it?
sigh
From a purely humanitarian perspective, he’s certainly earned a trade to a contender.
You make it sound like he’s a puppy someone found by the side of the road with a broken leg that’s been nursed back to health who now gets to go live on a farm and frolic and play with other puppies all day. “Humanitarian perspective” implies that Seattle somehow treats Ichiro like a slave or like a piece of property, and that going somewhere else will finally give the man the sweet, delicious freedom he’s been so cruelly denied all these years.
Despite what modern sports media would have you believe, it is not and has never been every superb athlete’s birthright to win a championship in his or her chosen sport. Sometimes great players don’t win titles, and somehow they’re still great players. Ichiro seems to enjoy playing in Seattle and being outside of the media spotlight – you think the “trade Ichiro all he does is hit singles” noise is loud in Seattle, move him to a New York team or Philly and see how fast they’re screaming for his head when he doesn’t start hitting home runs and being the hero. Why would he want that?
Ichiro seems content here. Can’t that be enough?
by pdb on Aug 7, 2010 10:22 AM PDT reply actions 23 recs
I like this proposal that I read on boston.com
Milton Bradley is my hero.
by SeaKoala on Aug 9, 2010 9:07 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I would absolutely relish being able to see Ellsbury in a Mariners uniform.
I don’t think I could handle the sight of Ichiro in any other uniform though (throwbacks notwithstanding).
by thehemogoblin on Aug 12, 2010 1:20 AM PDT up reply actions
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