SB Nation Seattle Editor's Pick
Seattle Mariners 2010 - An Adventure in Awfulness
When you're surrounded by awfulness, it's easy to get inured to the scale of that awfulness. Familiarity leads to habituation. Your brain adjusts to tune out the worst of the torture, and the badness loses its bite. You might still recognize intellectually that a thing is execrable, but after some time the sheer visceral edge begins to fade.
For example, my sister used to attend the University of Northern Colorado in Greeley. UNC is a good school, but Greeley is better-known for the smell of the nearby livestock feed lots and cow rendering plants. As Dave Gilmartin wrote in his book, The Absolutely Worst Places to Live in America, "Greeley is where cows go to die and people go to kill them. It is a society based on slaughter, and the smell of death hangs heavily in the air."
After four years in Greeley, my sister couldn't even smell the stink anymore. Even after leaving to breathe the fresh air of Seattle, the smell never hit her upon returning like it did when she first arrived. Her body and brain adjusted, and the reek of cow manure and death became her new normal.
Yes, this is the metaphor I'm choosing to use for the Mariners' 2010 season.
We all know that the Mariners have been terrible this year, with a level of awfulness magnified by high expectations coming into the season. But despite recent analysis from Jeff, Marc, and Matt Klaassen on FanGraphs, I found my mind boggling while trying to grasp the enormity of the Mariners' collective suck this year. This is my attempt to provide some historical context for some of the Mariners' individual struggles.
Everybody is familiar with using the Mendoza Line as a convenient yardstick to identify hapless hitters. In the effort to use a smarter metric than batting average, I'm going to be using a yardstick in this piece called the Willie Bloomquist line. Willie Bloomquist over his career has put up a wOBA of .298 and has consistently hovered right around that mark. Since that's awfully close to .300, I'm going to round it up and call a .300 wOBA the Bloomquist line. In other words, a hitter who puts up a wOBA of .300 or less is producing at or below the offensive level we would expect from a utility player who generates the bulk of his modest value with his versatility and his defense. With that in mind, it's a little bit startling that the Mariners as a team are wOBA'ing .287.
But let's move past that and get into individual performances. I took 2010 Mariners with a minimum of 100 PA and compared them with the Bloomquist line. Then, for additional context, I picked some of the worst individual performances we've seen since 2004 - the types of seasons that were seen at the time as huge disappointments, age collapses, and/or evidence of front office incompetence - and overlaid them to see how they compared with the Mariners' performances so far.
This is not meant to make statements about future production or drawing conclusions about relative player value - this does not factor in age, position played, salary, or quality of defense - but I think the results are pretty eye-opening.
| Player | Year | PA | wOBA |
| Mike Sweeney | 2010 | 110 | 0.354 |
| Michael Saunders | 2010 | 198 | 0.331 |
| Ichiro! | 2010 | 477 | 0.330 |
| Franklin Gutierrez | 2010 | 424 | 0.309 |
| Adrian Beltre | 2009 | 477 | 0.305 |
| Richie Sexson | 2007 | 491 | 0.305 |
| BLOOMQUIST LINE | -- | -- | 0.300 |
| Bret Boone | 2005 | 658 | 0.298 |
| Josh Wilson | 2010 | 229 | 0.296 |
| Jeremy Reed | 2008 | 312 | 0.296 |
| Chone Figgins | 2010 | 456 | 0.296 |
| Miguel Cairo | 2008 | 250 | 0.293 |
| Jeff Clement | 2008 | 224 | 0.289 |
| Milton Bradley | 2010 | 278 | 0.289 |
| MARINERS TEAM AVERAGE |
2010 | 3,934 | 0.287 |
| Rich Aurelia | 2004 | 292 | 0.286 |
| Ben Davis | 2003 | 269 | 0.286 |
| Casey Kotchman | 2010 | 287 | 0.284 |
| Carl Everett | 2006 | 343 | 0.284 |
| Scott Spiezio | 2004 | 415 | 0.279 |
| Miguel Olivo | 2004 | 173 | 0.274 |
| Kenji Johjima | 2008 | 409 | 0.272 |
| Yuniesky Betancourt | 2009 | 245 | 0.269 |
| Jose Vidro | 2008 | 330 | 0.268 |
| Jose Lopez | 2010 | 419 | 0.265 |
| Rob Johnson | 2010 | 209 | 0.261 |
| Wladimir Balentien | 2008 | 260 | 0.257 |
| Jeff Cirillo | 2003 | 293 | 0.253 |
| Jack Wilson | 2010 | 192 | 0.252 |
| Ronny Cedeno | 2009 | 206 | 0.219 |
| Ken Griffey Jr. | 2010 | 108 | 0.214 |
A few thoughts:
- This year has sucked.
- Viewed strictly through the narrow lens of wOBA, Mike Sweeney has been the Mariners' most productive hitter. Mike Sweeney!
- Over the last several years of bad baseball, even in the depths of 2008, there were only a handful of disappointing players in any given year that performed below the Bloomquist line. The 2010 Mariners have eight qualifying players producing below the Bloomquist line.
- One might hope that dropping the PA minimum would net us a bunch of hot hitters who just haven't racked up the required appearances. That hope would be mistaken. The best of that bunch is Ryan Langerhans (.337), followed by Josh Bard (.318) and Russell Branyan (.317). Dropping the PA minimum also gets us Eliezer Alfonso (.234), Mike Carp (.225), Adam Moore (.221), Eric Byrnes (.208), Justin Smoak (.190), and Matt Tuiasosopo (.186). Thank God for Michael Saunders' performance, because the presence of Moore and Smoak on this list (and, I guess, Carp and Tuiasosopo) is as depressing as it probably is meaningless.
- It's interesting to see in some of the historical seasons how players weren't allowed to suck indefinitely. Cedeno and Betancourt were traded. Vidro and Sexson went away. Everett was cut. At some point, the front office made decisions that they couldn't live with that production anymore. Many of this year's players are reaching the 200-500 PA area in which that seemed to happen in the past - it will be interesting to see how that shakes out this year.
- It's amazing how much Gutierrez's overall production has come back to Earth after his hot start - he's still ahead of the pack here, but remember - this is a pack made up of some of the worst individual seasons we have seen since 2004. Stellar defense at an important position will always be a big part of his value, but if he's going to hit like post-collapse Richie Sexson it's going to be difficult for the M's to generate much offense.
- You know how awful Yuniesky Betancourt was at the plate last year before he was traded? Do you remember how completely hapless he was? Yeah. Jose Lopez and Jack Wilson have both been worse.
- Setting aside Rob Johnson's passed ball problem, he's producing less with his bat than did Ben Davis, Miguel Olivo, and Kenji Johjima when they were all at their worst. Thank goodness he calls such a great game.
- Ken Griffey Jr. produced at a worse rate than Ronny :(edeno did during Ronny's short Seattle stint in which he appeared to be completely lost. Griffey did it without providing any defensive value. Awesome. Even as I'm recoiling from that unpleasant fact, it's kind of neat that he was so terrible.
- This year has sucked.
Just in case that wasn't fun enough, let's take a similar look at Ian Snell and Ryan Rowland-Smith - two pitchers who were being counted on to help form an excellent rotation this year.
I used 80 IP as a minimum and FIP greater than 5.00 as selection criteria for all of the pre-2010 players. I then excluded additional bad seasons from the same pitcher (I kept the worst) and added three exceptions to these criteria for additional context (Jarrod Washburn's worst year and two seasons of Carlos Silva - his full 2008 and his miserable but very short 2009). This list is sorted from best FIP to worst.
| Pitcher | Season | IP (min.80) | FIP |
| Carlos Silva | 2008 | 153.1 | 4.63 |
| Jarrod Washburn | 2008 | 153.2 | 4.72 |
| Gil Meche | 2005 | 143.1 | 5.04 |
| Jeff Weaver | 2007 | 146.2 | 5.07 |
| Ryan Franklin | 2004 | 200.1 | 5.22 |
| Joel Pineiro | 2006 | 165.2 | 5.24 |
| R.A. Dickey | 2008 | 112.1 | 5.25 |
| Aaron Sele | 2005 | 116 | 5.31 |
| Horacio Ramirez | 2007 | 98 | 5.49 |
| Jamie Moyer | 2004 | 202 | 5.74 |
| Carlos Silva | 2009 | 30 | 5.97 |
| Miguel Batista | 2008 | 115 | 6.23 |
| Garrett Olson | 2009 | 80.1 | 6.42 |
| Ian Snell | 2010 | 46.1 | 6.48 |
| Ryan Rowland-Smith | 2010 | 98.1 | 6.79 |
- Carlos Silva, even in his SSS and completely broken 2009, pitched better than Snell and RRS have so far this season. In fact, full-season Washburn and Silva, as mediocre as they were, look pretty good in this context of awfulness.
- Coming in, I figured that Snell and RRS had to be better than the execrable 2007 Weaver/Ramirez pitching tag-team. Nope! And in fact, it's not particularly close. I guess I hadn't quite realized how much Weaver had rescued his season after coming off the injured list that year.
- RRS has been worse than 2008 Miguel Batista. He has been worse than 2007 Horacio Ramirez. He has been worse than 2005 Aaron Sele. He has been worse than all of these collapsed pitchers. This development is perhaps the crowning sadness on a season of heartbreak.
This post hasn't been particularly fun to write, but hopefully this serves as rebuttal to the people who argue that the Mariners' underperformance so far this year repudiates either Jack Z's player-acquisition strategy or the idea that a team can survive with good pitching, good defense, and mediocre offense.
This team's bad elements haven't been mediocre, or even run-of-the-mill bad. They have been catastrophic. This team has suffered through 144.2 innings of collapse-level pitching and 2,350 plate appearances (roughly 60% of the team's total) from batters hitting below the Bloomquist line.
This is my first attempt to perform any sort of analysis here, so please feel free to jump in and correct any missteps I've made or any misunderstandings I've displayed in drawing these conclusions.
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Comments
If I could rec this ten times, I would
great work
Oo oo oo! I've got it!
“Hilariously sad”. Right??
Every time you masturbate... God kills a kitten? Fuck kittens.
by Matt Erickson on Aug 2, 2010 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions
...And so the second cannibal asks "does this meat taste funny to you?"
I don't want to achieve immortality through my work... I want to achieve it through not dying.
by Terminator X on Aug 4, 2010 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I FEEL IRRATIONAL AND UNBRIDLED HATRED TOWARDS YOU AFTER READING THIS
Maybe it’s for quantifying the absolute atrocity that we call “Mariner’s Baseball in 2010.” In a nutshell, a roster full of 2008 Miguel Cairos would be scoring more runs than our current team. I’m not sure if I should laugh or cry.
That said, this was a great post, great analysis, and I love you, man.
I'm not sure I'd watch a roster full of 2008 Cairos, but I would absolutely watch a team full of 2008 Jeff Clements.
I’d love to see how they interacted with each other.
But we would never catch another popup
Luke French would be so disappointed
If we're going down this road
And if we were going to be this bad…I’d rather watch a roster full of Eric Byrnes. Hilarity ensues, cue the circus music!
by HititHere on Aug 2, 2010 4:39 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
The permanent walk-up music would be yakkity sax.
Milton Bradley apologist
by sanford_and_son on Aug 3, 2010 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Thanks, everybody.
Quick statistical question – I went with wOBA and FIP because:
- based on what I understand, they scale to the league, making cross-year comparisons valid
- I wanted to reflect actual player production as accurately as possible
- given that goal, I did NOT want to regress to capture actual since I wasn’t looking for anything predictive
Were there better stats available to fit those goals?
wOBA only scales to league across NL/AL for each year - the actual average value for wOBA varies slightly from year to year
but not nearly enough where it would be a baseless comparison (we’re talking average between ~.330-.340 at worst, so not a huge stretch)
I’d probably have gone with tRA over FIP because although FIP is a good tool, it’s even outdone by xFIP and doesn’t quite do justice to guys who have good groundball rates. Not that this would particularly change this at all, but I’ve gone to tRA or tRA* pretty much as my go-to pitching statistic.
That and pitcher wins
you can’t forget about pitcher wins – otherwise, how will you know who won or lost the game?
by seattlebruin on Aug 2, 2010 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions 6 recs
Don't xFIP and tRA* apply some pretty heavy regression?
Or do they just scale? Dammit, this is what I get by trying to do this stuff from memory.
tRA* applies pretty heavy regression, so it's a lot more useful for starters than relievers at this point, but even straight tRA is pretty good for relievers
xFIP regresses a lot as well, but only HR rate, which has been shown to be pretty prone to variation – from what I’ve seen, xFIP is actually slightly more predictive than tRA for whatever reason.
Ah - thanks for the clarification.
In this case tRA, rather than FIP, xFIP, or tRA*, probably would have been the best choice for this specific purpose. I’ll know for next time.
I would be curious to weight the stats with salary somehow,
to get an idea of how the front office might view things. For example, how much did they pay for each unit of Silva’s suck compared to each Snell or RRS? [I will now substitute “awful” for “suck” because this is sounding too euphemistic.] Paying less per awfulness doesn’t arouse as much anger in me. It just makes me feel like the execs never really intended to win this year, and hope for better things when they do. Unlike when Bavasi decided to go for it and we ended up paying exorbitantly for our awfulnesses. At least the people we are paying the most and made long-term commitments to haven’t been awful, which is much less disheartening than watching Silva in 2008.
Beautiful, except if you can get past the smell Greeley isn't too bad`
Determined, Jonesing Commentor
Greeley is truly one of the most miserable places to visit.
That smell is everywhere.
Fort Morgan's worse
because it smells just as bad and has a lot less else to recommend it.
by The Ancient Mariner on Aug 3, 2010 7:15 AM PDT up reply actions
Very neat. Some thoughts I had when I read this.
- Silva’s tRA I think was way more telling of his performance. He gave up line drives like a machine.
- The inaction by the front office is very upsetting.
- This is historic collapse, especially when it came from some of our more “risk averse” players.
If Guti can’t hit much better, I am not going to be very fond of keeping him around, and I am annoyed with myself for thinking that.
...and now I'm here
Guti's peripherals seem fine though - his LD rate is a bit down, but he's running a .296 BABIP vs .315 career
plus his IF hit rate and HR/FB rate are both down as well, which seems to be a bigger problem to me than his slightly depressed LD rate.
Also, he’s still been a 2 WAR player with 50 games to go, so even if he’s only a 3.5 WAR true talent guy, that’s still a good piece for 4/$20M
by seattlebruin on Aug 3, 2010 12:05 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, positional adjustments will help too.
But if the defense declines at all, he quickly goes from productive to useless. It’s worrisome to watch him hit worse. It’s hard to understand how someone seems to get worse at hitting with more playing time.
...and now I'm here
I just don't see a defensive decline from him, though
his defensive ability has never been about pure athleticism, so he should age reasonably gracefully in center, plus he should be in his physical prime right now. I think we’re just fine for at least the duration of his contract, and we can re-evaluate at that point, after 2013 (I believe)
I know there is not any basis in reality for this
But I still feel like such pervasive offensive futility is contagious. Maybe if the rest of the team was hitting at least slightly less-awfully, he’d remember how to swing the stick a little better too.
“Pressing.”
BOOM!!! Headshot...
In all seriousness, this was a great article, and I remember back to the futility f previous seasons and realize that we just haven’t been very good for a long time, and we’re only getting worse… how depressing…
Well, Bradley's been put on the DL. Griffey got retired. RoJo's gone.
There’s Jack Wilson, yeah. but the Mariners have absolutely nothing in the way of infield depth at SS, and it’s not like Josh Wilson is any better than a replacement-level player.
I would imagine Kotchman and Lopez leaves come the offseason.
Jack has maybe 10-15 million to work with next year, and C, one of SS, 2B or 3B (assuming Figgins is an immovable object AND Ackley is handed a job out of spring training), DH, SP and BP to fix.
Ugh.
by eponymous_coward on Aug 3, 2010 9:40 AM PDT reply actions
Bonus points - explain exactly what that has to do with this post.
Well, that was embarrassing.
by Chris Hafner on Aug 3, 2010 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions
If you're going to be bad, be bad in a big way.
It applies to the Mariners offense, and it applies to my reply etiquette. See how I pulled it all together there?
Have to add in the frustration of seeing so many former M's doing well elsewhere
Joel Pineiro and Carlos Silva with 10 wins each. Adrian Beltre .336/19/71. The continuing frustration of seeing Carlos Guillen hit effectively after we “upgraded” from him to Rich Aurilia years ago. Miguel Olivio batting .306 with 13HRs. I’m sure there are others I’m missing. These guys all ranged from average to terrible with us, and now they are solid contributors for other teams? WTF? This happens way too often. And those guys I listed aren’t players we traded for anything of value. They’re all guys we either gave up on or let walk.
I don’t post here much, so I’m sorry if this topic has already been discussed, but it seems I can’t watch an MLB game without seeing some former Mariner who was lackluster at best for us, and is now a pretty good player for some other team. Again, WTF?
Aardsma had one good year for us
Now, he sucks again. I’ll give you Gutierrez. Vargas, maybe. Have those other guys really done anything with us that you find remarkable?
Aardsma hasn't really sucked this year.
Have you checked him out recently? He started poorly, and is now doing better than he ever did before he came to us, once again.
by Fuckmikereilly on Aug 8, 2010 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions
And Vargas maybe?
Vargas is by far having his best season ever.
by Fuckmikereilly on Aug 8, 2010 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions
No chatspeak, please
As for ‘they always get better when they leave’, I think a lot of Pineiro’s success is down to Dave Duncan, Silva did get legitimately better (mainly by throwing his fastball less often, if memory serves) and was also helped by moving to the NL.
Beltre is much more than ‘a pretty good player’ for Boston, posting 5(!) WAR already, he’s a genuine MVP candidate. Safeco was justabout the worst fit possible for him and Fenway is justabout the best.
There's a really good post on this from a week or two ago
That Jeff or Matthew did. I don’t have time to find it right now, but it’s titled something very cryptic like “How Come Guys Always Get Better when they Leave.”
It had some really good insight about why this SEEMS to be the case, but it’s really just our tunnel vision.
Oh crap. Sorry.
It was right above your name, and somehow the blue on the link melded with the blue in your name and…. uh……. aw nuts.
So, this year alone...
We let an all-star and MVP candidate in Beltre walk, ostensibly to replace him with Chone Figgins, who sucks. We traded a starter who was completely ineffective for us in Silva for Milton Bradley, whose emotional struggles have only been surpassed by his troubles at the plate. And, we traded a former 1st round pick in Brandon Morrow who, while the jury is still out, looks to possibly be on his way to being a credible starter, for a journeyman setup man in Brandon League, who is being talked about as a disappointment, but I have not idea why more was expected of him.
Maybe I’m making it into a bigger issue than it is overall, but those 3 were colossal busts that all occurred this year. Then, throw in guys from the past like Carlos Guillen, Ryan Franklin and Joel Pineiro. Guys don’t “always” get better when they leave the M’s, but we seem to have at least our fair share.
I have no doubt Silva wouldn't have done anything for us
But he has been productive for the Cubs. Why is that? Coaching? Environment? The stadium? What? That was my original point.
I did mention Silva, but never mind
Here’s what Jeff had to say back in June.
The NL switch helps, of course, but this is pretty much all happening because Silva has dropped his fastball usage from a steady ~75% all the way down to 56%. He’s throwing way more sliders and changeups, and batters are having way more trouble hitting them. And he’s sacrificed nothing in the way of strikes or groundballs.
That explains why he's been more successful this year
But it doesn’t explain why, if it’s that simple, we didn’t have him change his pitch usage when he was here.
The organization seems to encourage pitchers to throw as many fastballs as possible.
See Fister, Doug.
I can't resist clicking "Rec" when I see a post with four [of them] already.
by thehemogoblin on Aug 3, 2010 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Right, which is why Brandon League's gone away from using anything other than fastballs.
Not definitive proof, but after hearing :“establish the fastball” year after year from this organization (see: Bad Felix), I am a little skeptical that they were really telling Silva to use his other stuff more.
by eponymous_coward on Aug 4, 2010 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Once again, Beltre is a terrible fit for this ballpark and almost certainly wouldn't have been an MVP candidate had he stuck around.
No-one saw this coming from Figgins, if they tell you did then they are lying. I don’t think anybody expected him to repeat last season’s career year but to see him drop off to this extent is remarkable.
As far as I can tell, the organisation was fed up with Morrow and his inconsitencies and didn’t see him as anything more than a reliever. This is why more was expected from League.
This whole thing is an exercise in results-based analysis, which is frowned upon round these parts.
Exscept for the Morrow criticisms, which are totally valid as far as I am concerned.
by Aaron Campeau on Aug 3, 2010 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Although calling him a journeyman isn't really accurate
by Aaron Campeau on Aug 3, 2010 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Seeing as he'd only played for the Jays before coming to Seattle I'd say it's not at all accurate.
by Eyeball Kid on Aug 3, 2010 5:04 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Let me help you out
From dictionary.com
journeyman: 2. any experienced, competent but routine worker or performer.
You don’t get much more routine than Brandon League, except for that stat you like so much about the one year he had such success with the one pitch.
Let me help you out
don’t be an ass and you will get a lot farther around here
by seattlebruin on Aug 3, 2010 9:12 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
Morrow has a higher xFIP than League!
Except, oh wait, League is a reliever and has only been worth .2 WAR to Morrow’s 2.5..
Beltre hasn't gotten better: he went from a park that killed him to a park that helps him.
The skillset’s still the same.
by eponymous_coward on Aug 4, 2010 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions
I should have kissed Jenny Nelson on the swingset in 7th grade.
by Kenneth Arthur on Aug 4, 2010 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions
I should have stayed Jeffy Nelson
and not had that sex change operation in 6th grade
by Craptastic-J on Aug 5, 2010 7:39 AM PDT up reply actions 5 recs
Well, let's see.
Guillen was basically gotten rid of for crap as a “we don’t want your lazy DUI ass here” trade. It was very obvious the value wasn’t close to even on that trade.
Miguel Olivo’s gone through a TON of organizations and has finally hit pay dirt some years later, so… no.
Pineiro and Franklin are kind of valid, but they went to St. Louis, where the list of pitchers that Dave Duncan’s turned from crap to decent is a pretty long list (and Franklin was always better as a reliever, anyway). If you want to ding the M’s for not having Dave Duncan… well, you’re not going to find a lot of guys with that kind of track record in MLB.
by eponymous_coward on Aug 4, 2010 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Your post did get me curious about previously awful hitting teams.
Well the M’s as you said have a .287 wOBA.
No team has wOBA’d under .300 since 2003 Dodgers and Tigers.
The 2003 Tigers led by Dmitri Young, Warren Morris, bad Carlos Pena, bad Brandon Inge, Shane Halter, Ramon Santiago, Alex Sanchez, Kevin Witt, Craig Monroe, Bobby Higginson, Eric Munson. Of course that team lost 119 games. And they actually had a .294 wOBA.
The 03 Dodgers also had a .294 wOBA. They had Shawn Green, Beltre, LoDuca.. and just a bunch of veterans who were past their prime. (They had Fred McFriff AND Rickey Henderson AND Brian Jordan AND Robin Ventura)
The Tigers had a .296 wOBA the previous year.
Go back to 1993 for the next case, the Marlins. .298 wOBA. Their first year of existence. (They were led by Orestes Destrade. Good trivia for who had the most HR and RBI in the first year of the Marlins.)
So just to recap: If the Mariners don’t show remarkable improvement for the rest of the season, they will join the ‘02-’03 Tigers, the ‘03 Dodgers, and the ’93 Marlins as the only teams to wOBA under .300 in the last 18 seasons. Though it must be noted that the Pirates and Astro’s are currently .296 and .294 respectively.
It’s the lowest since the ’88 Braves .287 wOBA.
by Kenneth Arthur on Aug 3, 2010 5:46 PM PDT reply actions 4 recs
And not only that, we're unlucky in run scoring situations, too!
terrible AND unclutch, it’s like the perfect storm!
It would help if they at least had a competent GM
This guy does not have a clue, having so many players who have no business being on ANY major league roster.
Welcome to Lookout Landing!
As you may or may not know, this is a blog about the Seattle Mariners, not the Kansas City Royals or the Pittsburgh Pirates. Please defend your assertion about the incompetence of the Mariners’ GM using statistics (good ones, not cherry-picked dumb ones like ERA and AVG) and facts.
If you cannot do this and just came here to stir up shit please go elsewhere. Thanks!
by pdb on Aug 5, 2010 3:26 PM PDT up reply actions 11 recs
HA!
Has it really only been 13 months? Wow. Credit to Matthew for mentioning Rob Johnson fluffing, ergo, I had to say something.
by Kenneth Arthur on Aug 5, 2010 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions
So the 29th planet is where the idiots come from.
Glad it’s so far away.
by Mariner John on Aug 6, 2010 12:13 AM PDT up reply actions
Jose Vidro
Man, I still can’t believe he was the DH. Pretty amazing that Jose Lopez is having a worse season. Jose Vidro, man…
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