A Mauricio Robles Observation
by Jeff Sullivan on Aug 16, 2010 10:48 AM PDT
in Seattle Mariners Stats
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PrintThis is something I just noticed while reading through marc w's post over at USSM. Hopefully he doesn't mind me using one of his photos.
Look at Robles' back leg. Then look at his front leg. Then look at the catcher.
Ordinarily, these three points are supposed to arrange themselves in a ~line. Check out Roy Halladay as an example. This is what's called the driveline, and as much energy as possible should be going towards hurling the ball along it from the rubber to the plate.
Robles' right leg, though, doesn't swing all the way around to the line, instead stopping short at a...70? 80? degree angle. To make sure this wasn't a one-time fluke, I looked at some video available here and here, and, sure enough, it's consistent. Robles' right leg is very frequently - if not always - kind of off to the first base side there, turning the driveline into a triangle.
What does this mean? Understand right now that I do not possess any special knowledge of Mauricio Robles. What follows is simply speculation based on my own experiences as a pitcher. Having a front leg that lands too 'closed' can serve to inhibit forward momentum. The pitcher can end up kind of throwing over his leg, and he will have difficulty getting good forward extension. This can manifest in lower perceived velocity, difficulty in achieving a consistent release point, and difficulty in staying low in the zone. With the leg off to the side, there is no smooth delivery straight from the mound to the catcher. There's a delivery that's forced to compensate for a little resistance, and that can make it very, very hard to release the ball as far forward as you'd like.
There's also the risk of knee damage, as the knee is twisting and taking force and everything.
Is this what's holding Robles back? Is anything holding Robles back? I can't say whether or not such an observation matters in this particular instance. If nothing else, Robles is at least pointing his front foot in the right direction. But it's worth noting that Robles has exhibited some fly ball tendencies while battling inconsistent command. The signs are there that Robles' closed front leg is having some sort of effect.
Who knows.
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Can't say as I noticed this while I was there yesterday
… but my seat was somewhat to the first base side of the mound, and not as close as Marc’s so my angle would have made it look more or less right from there.
I will say that I agree 100% with Marc’s assessment that his mechanics fell apart as the fifth went on. Not just his release point was drifting on him, but his arm slot was wandering as well. Concerning, but when you consider that he’s coming close to his career high in IP as a younger and smaller guy, it’s not that surprising in context.
Those first four innings are definitely something that should bring excitement to M’s fans.
"Look at Robles' back leg. Then look at his front leg. Then look at the catcher."
Now look at me. Now look at the back leg. Back at me. Back at the leg.
by Suburban Shocker on Aug 16, 2010 11:00 AM PDT reply actions 14 recs
YOU SON OF A BITCH
No, just kidding. I was going to post something about this, as I noticed it a bit at the game, and def. noticed it when I saw the photo. It’s odd.
But then, I’m just not sure what to make of it. He’s throwing over his leg, but it’s working. I’d be happy if they ‘fixed’ that, and I still say they probably want him in Tacoma to work with Jaime Navarro. But I’m cool if they just let him be and try to get him to be as consistent in his weird mechanics as he can be.
In the comments at USSM, I mentioned that he reminded me of Tyson Ross in terms of stuff and stamina. But Ross’ motion is bizarre too. He basically doesn’t stride at all, so his torso just rotates around his front leg. It’s the definition of pitching with your arm and not your body. He lower half looks like he’s trying to throw a 20mph lob to a young child, and his upper half is whipping the ball at 97.
See below:
The photo doesn't really show where he started from on the mound, so even though he's off to the side, he could still be striding straight on from the first base side of the rubber
that being said, his shoulders are tilted in a way that would make the original impression seem most likely. I’d agree it’s a flaw, but if it’s something he repeats, it could be a positive – if he is whipping his arm across the body more than most, he’ll generate more movement on his fastball, and if that’s his natural style, it should probably be left (more or less) alone
I'd actually caution against seeing this as a 'flaw'
Calling something a flaw implies that we know it to be a problem. Robles has been successful, and he’s probably been pitching like this forever, so while I think it’s a little kink that should be straightened out, I will shy away from making any declarative statements. I just don’t know.
by Jeff Sullivan on Aug 16, 2010 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions
You put your right foot in, you put your right foot out, you put your right foot in
and shake it all about…….
Actually nice catch. It would be nice to hear from someone who is an expert on mechanics and hear what they have to say.
In all seriousness
This seems pretty significant, does anyone know if there is a reasonable chance that someone from the organization will read this and utilize it. That of course is assuming they haven’t already noticed it and either tried correcting it or thought it inconsequential.
by Thurston24 on Aug 16, 2010 12:58 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Pretty severe lengthwise lambda
The shoulder, elbow, ball forms what looks like a “greater than” sign, or a lengthwise lambda. His head is upright, which some might argue transform the lengthwise lambda into the more benign capsized delta, but we just don’t know enough right now.
by marc w on Aug 16, 2010 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I know pitching mechanics is somewhere between real science, a black art and bullshit
but is his hand position too far back behind his head?
Off the top of my head, I doubt it
his arm is mad accelerating to the front, imparting mad force.
by Jeff Sullivan on Aug 16, 2010 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
He's reminding me more and more of Ian Snell
Undersized strikeout pitcher with control problems and a funny front foot.
Bumgarner kind of does that too
I wouldn’t be too worried about it, but it doesn’t feel very comfortable landing closed like that (but maybe it’s ok for Robles, I don’t know).
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
This is probably why he walks so many guys.
I’ve pitched for 15 years, and am a pitcher in college. From all the pitchers that I’ve seen that struggle to throw strikes, a lot of it has to do with the front foot and whether they cross over. Hopefully somebody fixes that. It’ll help him throw strikes.
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