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Around SBN: The Most Dangerous Division in Sports

OT 6/09/10 Close, horseshoes and grenades.

"You play for pride," he said. "You play to win, no matter what's going on. You play the game the same way whether you're in first place or last place, whether you're playing for that last spot in the wild card, or 25 [games] out.

"It's easier said than done, but it's necessary. As a professional, it's necessary. It's what you're supposed to do. Regardless of what's going on around you, you have to ignore the circumstances and get after it. That's my take: There's always something to play for." - Jim Riggleman

Oh man, what could have been. There's always the path not taken, if I'd have gone left instead of right, said hello instead of goodnight. But then there is losing, and trying to be a better loser.   There's holding a $20 dollar bill in either hand, and since you dropped the one on your left in the gutter, you throw the one in the right after it.  Tossing the baby out with the bathwater doesn't quite fit, I'd hazzard that's more an analogy for firing your hitting coach. 

 




Star-divide

 Anyway.  Acblue mentioned someplace that Strasburg is a pitcher for a generation, and I really appreciated that sentiment.  There are talented players, and then there is the rare person that transcends.  It's can be a real pleasure to watch someone with talent perform, no matter what it is they do.  Skill can be acquired, but talent... that's a horse of a different color.  There is talent and then there is something more.  Brilliance?  Genius? Whatever the chosen adjective, it's often readily apparent to all.  There's just something that grabs the attention, much like the Golden Ratio, or facial symmetry.  Whether you understand why or not, you're just attracted.  You are nearly compelled to observe and appreciate.

Am I frustrated he's not ours?  You betcha!  So close yet so far, one more failure of the Bavasi Error, so bad you just couldn't be bad enough.  Is it wrong to be frustrated?  I don't know.  I just don't know.  This doesn't equate to most second place situations.  It really doesn't.  He was a known commodity, the team was that close. Sheesh.  Take lemons and make lemonade, make the most of a bad situation, c'mon already.  There are more metaphors but presently I'm drawing blanks.

Pride?  Where does pride enter into the situation?  From the players aspect I get it, but then I've read too many accounts, personal accounts in biographies and autobiographies, of players failing on purpose.  Pitchers grooving one to give a friend a hit, hitters tanking so they could end a blowout game faster.  Any number of anecdotes.  From the management aspect, holy crap you blew it.  Why?  Just why.  Answer me that, you won a game and lost so much.   

And RigglemanRiggleman works for the Nationals now.  No kidding.

So... OT wise skills you've appreciated.  Personally I've wondered why it's feats of strength and tricks of the mind.  The former has a positive connotation, the latter slightly negative.   Funny how physical prowess often carries more weight than brain power.  Feats of strength personally observed, as well as tricks of the mind.

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Dude

you wrote this from the future!

by Ballard Erik on Jun 9, 2010 5:47 AM PDT reply actions  

It seems the mental vs. physical prowess

is often played out in comic books. The super hero with the insane physical ability and ‘courage’ (which any bar fight will tell you does often not go hand in hand with intelligence) defeats the ‘mad doctor’ or the ‘diabolical genius.’

However, I feel like the negative connotation of brain power vs. strength can be traced back to the Die Hard trilogy. The evilest of the evil Russian genius are defeated by this guy. The lives of everyone are saved, and John McClain has time to celebrate with the boys.

by Ballard Erik on Jun 9, 2010 6:01 AM PDT up reply actions  

It can be traced back much farther than that.

Like much much farther, to the post-industrial revolution era.

It’s much more balanced before that point, with a lot more outwitting the brute bad guy once you get into classical literature and back into the bible.

I attribute the switch that most people’s lives have made from a hard labor to a soft labor/white collar workforce. When the majority of people use their brains to work (or at least aren’t using their body as the main power source), the physical realm of fantasy is idolized. Exacerbating that is we are all developing the attention span of a goldfish; the end result is all action all the time.

It's hard to convince people to let you eat them if you're an asshole. - Thingray

by Faux on Jun 9, 2010 6:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

Sorry

Still think it came from Die Hard. The release of Die Hard was the seminal event in American history. In fact, we should have started our year count at 0 like they did in the French Revolution

by Ballard Erik on Jun 9, 2010 6:49 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

Die Hard is the true American archetype

That brawn will always triumph over brains, that an honest blue-collar effort is all you need to succeed/win. Faux is correct that most of this is a literary/philosophical by-product of the industrial revolution courtesy of England, though, for whatever reason, Americans seemed to run with the concept much further and for much longer.

by ThomasG on Jun 9, 2010 6:47 AM PDT up reply actions  

There are probably only 3 or 4 story archs in

American cinema, if you leave out David Lynch movies.

by Ballard Erik on Jun 9, 2010 6:53 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

'Mericans are scurred of smert folk

There are few benevolent brains like Professor X, Stephen Hawking or Jeff Sullivan.

Most smart people are evil Wall Street bankers that become fabulously wealthy while causing us to get poor interest rates on our new Chevy Tahoes. Also, Hitler.

by HititHere on Jun 9, 2010 9:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

In case any of you forgot and/or didn't realize how fucking awesome Liriano was...

17.0% swinging strike % for Strasburg last night.

Liriano for his first 2342 pitches before he got hurt? 16.8%.

by Fett42 on Jun 9, 2010 6:42 AM PDT reply actions  

So, I just watched the gifs Jeff made of Strasburg's pitches

In the name of parity, Strasburg needs to be assigned Johnson as his personal catcher. They’d probably get along, and it would go quite a ways toward making things fair for the rest of the league.

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Jun 9, 2010 7:40 AM PDT reply actions  

So, which is the more emblematic action of a franchise?

The Mariners with a $100M payroll loses 100 games, but can’t manage to be lose 1 or 2 more, to earn the first pick of the draft?

The Royals passing on hometown boy Albert Pujols for the first 12 rounds of the 1999 draft (Herk Robinson, Royals general manager said “We were going to take him somewhere around the 15th round.”)?

by msb on Jun 9, 2010 8:16 AM PDT reply actions  

But obviously nobody knew he would turn out like he has.

Are we supposed to draft every hometown guy just in case he’s the next Pujols?

"Because 100 luftballoons would be far too many"

by Thingray on Jun 9, 2010 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

But they saw him as a 15th rounder.

All of those are crap shoots. Nobody thought that highly of him at the time (for whatever reason).

"Because 100 luftballoons would be far too many"

by Thingray on Jun 9, 2010 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions  

And so, it begins:
George A. King III of the New York Post reports that the Mariners are prepared for the Yankees to have interest in acquiring left-hander Cliff Lee.
The team’s most immediate need is to find another bat, and they have had scouts following the Astros in recent days, but the Yankees should never be discounted as a potential destination for Lee. According to King, the Mariners are currently scouting the Yankees organization thoroughly and have interest in prospect shortstop Eduardo Nunez and either prospect catcher Austin Romine or Jesus Montero. For the Yankees to give up such a haul, they would likely try to lock Lee up to a contract extension. There’s still a lot of time before the trade deadline, so look for Lee to be connected to many teams in the days to come.

You're dead to me.

by Goose on Jun 9, 2010 8:24 AM PDT reply actions  

Please be true.

Montero and Nunez for five months of Lee? Me likey.

by EnglishMariner on Jun 9, 2010 8:30 AM PDT up reply actions  

Wait wait wait

This guy’s name is George King, III?

I want to poop at your house - Thingray

by tootthekazoo on Jun 9, 2010 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

Where are we all watching the big game this Saturday?

I’m going to be in Edinburgh this weekend, which will be fun. Who do Scottish people hate more I wonder, English people or Americans? I might wear my England shirt with a George W Bush mask just to seal the deal of raw hatred directed my way from the locals.

My prediction is 1-1, I think the English media are overlooking Team USA and are going to be disappointed come Sunday morning.

by EnglishMariner on Jun 9, 2010 9:22 AM PDT reply actions  

I would wager the Scots hate the English more than the Americans

I’ll be watching the game at my house surrounded by a bunch of Americans and a few Brits just for fun. Should be an entertaining day. I have a feeling it will either be 1-1 or 5-1 England, depending on which US back line shows up.

by pdb on Jun 9, 2010 9:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

They hate the English more, easily.

I love Scotland.

Anyway, watching at home with friends.

by marc w on Jun 9, 2010 9:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

Scots have that going too.

Still, just have to say that I’ve never been treated so well by the locals as I was in Scotland. Excepting 3rd world countries who saw me as a walking cash machine.

by marc w on Jun 9, 2010 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions  

Oh, and my prediction is also 1-1.

The US is going to play the game of the tournament (for them), and England will be a bit more hesitant. They’ll also be using the game to see how the patched-together defense works. England will get better throughout the first round, the US won’t, but both go through.

by marc w on Jun 9, 2010 9:58 AM PDT up reply actions  

I would be shocked if the US didn't go through but then again this is the US team

I just hope they’re consistent, and that they don’t see the end of the England game as the end of the hard part of their tournament. I have no reason to believe they will think that way, but still.

by pdb on Jun 9, 2010 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions  

The North American Rangers supporters group were having their meeting at the hotel next to ours when we were in Vegas.

They were something like 80% Scottish ex-pats and once they got drunk wouldn’t shut up about how much they love Americans. Although these were people who chose to move to the US, so I’d imagine that would skew the opinions.

by Aaron Campeau on Jun 9, 2010 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

I have had countless drinks bought for me in Edinburgh by people who just love talking with Americans

I’m pretty sure a lot of them bought me drinks so they could watch me be drunk and take the piss out of me but hey free drinks why not. It’s too bad that the Scottish aren’t in the WC, the Tartan Army is probably the most fun supporters group there is.

by pdb on Jun 9, 2010 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions  

Me too, only in Glasgow.

And that’s not even getting into the deeply weird American sort of country/elvis night in Govan. Complete with reverential folding up of the Stars and Stripes at the end of the night.

by marc w on Jun 9, 2010 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions  

I would do backflips to get 1 point out of that game.

I’ll be heading to Neumo’s with ECS and American Outlaws

by Robert on Jun 9, 2010 9:47 AM PDT up reply actions  

There's an English type pub near my apartment

I’m thinking about hazarding a trip over to there.

[DELETED ZOMG NO POLITICS]

by bluemax on Jun 9, 2010 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions  

I thought the title for this was "Clownshoes and grenades."

I can't resist clicking "Rec" when I see a post with four [of them] already.

by thehemogoblin on Jun 9, 2010 9:40 AM PDT reply actions  

I can't believe how upset I still am that he's not ours

rationally, it doesn’t matter. He’s one player, and it’s not like we gave up Strasburg and got Rob Johnson – we got Dustin Ackley, a legitimate special talent as a consolation prize.

Strasburg being so ready, so fast just evokes the imagination though – what if he was ours? It’s so frustrating to know that he was well within our grasp and we let him slip away for no reason other than pride

by seattlebruin on Jun 9, 2010 9:51 AM PDT reply actions  

What kills me the most about the pride is that it was actually useless.

It’s not like winning two meaningless games against Oakland would save Riggleman from the clearly looming guillotine. Winning those two games meant absolutely nothing to anyone but Riggleman and that little iota of satisfaction for him cost the Mariners potentially the best pitching talent in history.

by abender20 on Jun 9, 2010 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions  

To be fair, managers are in the business of trying to win games.

While it would clearly have been in the best interests of the franchise to lose those games, I’m not sure how realistic it is to blame Riggleman for losing those games. It’s absolutely frustrating in the abstract, but I’m not sure what concrete steps were available to avoid it.

by Chris Hafner on Jun 9, 2010 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions  

This.

God dammit, the feelings of 2008 are bubbling up again.

There isn’t a Strasburg on the horizon for next years draft that we can shoot for, is there?

by seattlesundevil on Jun 9, 2010 10:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

Hold a press conference. "Season's over, we've got to see what we have moving forward."

Then you start Yuni at short, Chris Woodward at DH, put Jeremy Reed in center, Rob Johnson at catcher, and off you go.

by abender20 on Jun 9, 2010 10:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

Or Jeremy Reed at catcher, Rob Johnson at short, Yuni in center.

That way they can try as hard as they’d like, poor dears, but losing is almost assured. That’s ethical tanking in my world.

by Chris Hafner on Jun 9, 2010 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

This I agree with.

This is the subtle way to do it – and this way the manager and the players can still try to win, which is congruent with why they’re in the game and what they should be doing. They’re just less likely to win. So I suppose if there’s blame it belongs on Bavasi’s plate.

But I can’t see blaming Riggleman. What if he started bad players and they were still playing well enough to win? What then? Should he tell them to intentionally play worse? To throw the game? I’m sympathetic to the overall point, but I just don’t see this happening.

I choose to look at it as the universe’s cosmic joke that the situation maxed out its badness to such an intelligent degree – completely awful, but, narrowly, not quite awful enough.

by Chris Hafner on Jun 9, 2010 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

I just hate them all with a burning passion forever

because they were terrible and uninteresting, and just when they could have done one positive thing for this team, they go and screw that up too. They were literally the worst possible scenario in every conceivable way and I hate them

by seattlebruin on Jun 9, 2010 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'm totally on board with that.

Everything about that season was completely miserable, and nothing more so than finishing with a completely miserable sweep that cost the team a shot at a guy who might be a once-in-a-generation pitcher.

Sometimes I worry that the stink of 2008 has not yet dissipated and that the one positive coming out of that season – Ackley – may still have a bit of the taint on him. That’s when I begin to drink.

by Chris Hafner on Jun 9, 2010 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions  

To me there's a huge difference between "hey sweet we got Dustin Ackley!"

and “JESUS MARINERS WE COULD HAVE HAD STRASBURG”

If we are stuck in 2nd the whole time, then Ackley is a great consolation prize – it’s the whole ridiculousness of winning out to lose Strasburg that torments me forever.

A while back, I was talking to a really close friend who happens to be an Angels fan, and I made some offhand comment about how my favorite part of 2008 was Carlos Silva threatening to throw someone up against a wall and he goes “I thought your favorite part of 2008 was when you won your last three games and didn’t get Strasburg.” That’s about how I feel right now.

Fuck you 2008 Mariners. Fuck you.

by seattlebruin on Jun 9, 2010 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think you play to win no matter what.

If you can honestly and legitimately play prospects with the intent that that is what is best for them and your team, fine. But I don’t believe you ever purposely punt even a single game.

Call me old fashioned.

"Because 100 luftballoons would be far too many"

by Thingray on Jun 9, 2010 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think it would be good for everyone to step back and remember one thing.

None of them men in power at the end of 2008 is still with the team. None of them. Why would they make decisions based on the long-term health of an employer that they knew would be kicking them to the curb?

by Sec 108 on Jun 9, 2010 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

I understand that Riggleman's job is to win games, but it's the GMs job to look out for the team.

If Pelekoudas didn’t know what Strasburg was then he was incompetent and probably illiterate. It’s unlikely.

by abender20 on Jun 9, 2010 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

I understand the angst, I just think we are still paying the price

for many years of running this ship aground. It will take a few years if not a generation of better leadership to correct what was done wrong.

by Sec 108 on Jun 9, 2010 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions  

It's just so frustrating to see Strasburg perform so well, so quickly and generate so much excitement

He could have been a huge step forward for the future, someone who could generate real hype and sell tickets to a bad team. Instead, we swept the A’s, and the Nationals are the beneficiaries of the best pitching prospect we’ve ever seen.

by seattlebruin on Jun 9, 2010 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

Again, I understand.

I just have a different angle on all this maybe. The Mariners position here on June 9th of 2010 is not a happy one, but on the list of things in my life that frustrate me it is rather low. I would change so many things in my world before changing anything to do with the M’s.

by Sec 108 on Jun 9, 2010 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

To me, throwing the game would have been unforgivable, and unethical.

Who wants the last four teams in the standings seeing who can put the most horrible lineup out for the last month of the season just to guarantee the top draft pick? I think it’s unethical, unfair to your fan base (the majority of whom don’t care about draft picks, they just want to see a win when they take their kids to the game), and sets a bad and dangerous precedent for both your orginization and the game itself.

We’ll have to agree to disagree on this one. I’d rather play the right way and miss out on Strasburg then purposely punt games to get the higher draft pick.

"Because 100 luftballoons would be far too many"

by Thingray on Jun 9, 2010 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

That's how it starts.

Next thing you know you have the pennant race, and the draft pick race. Teams start running rookie ball squads out there and bringing Pat Borders out of retirement to catch for “veteran leadership”. I don’t like where that path leads.

"Because 100 luftballoons would be far too many"

by Thingray on Jun 9, 2010 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

It's a very slippery slope

What’s the cutoff? Blowing the last 3 games? The last week? The last 3 weeks?

This could easily turn into a July-September shitfest of shitty games where 60% of the teams in the league are punting games. Or maybe worse, not “punting” games but legitimately not giving a shit about the baseball season because the management is only thinking about draft picks.

Fuck that. I like baseball. Play those games, M’s.

Plus, draft picks aren’t the grand finale of baseball, they’re the beginning. Way too many draft picks, high draft picks, bust to make this kind of venture even remotely plausible.

by HititHere on Jun 9, 2010 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

It's not a #1 draft pick

it’s Strasburg.

There’s a difference between playing the lottery and playing the lottery that you have a 90% chance to win

by seattlebruin on Jun 9, 2010 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think it's the first part of HititHere's argument that's the most compelling.

If the last three games aren’t worth winning to try to get a better draft pick, what about the meaningless games this team will probably play in August? At what point does the punting begin? And how is this fair to the fans who attend those games and who want to see a win? How is it fair to the players who are playing for their team and for their career?

I normally don’t like pointing to slippery slopes, but the slippery slope is important to consider here.

by Chris Hafner on Jun 9, 2010 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think this was a one-time only situation

in this case, the finish line was clearly in sight – the Mariners had three games remaining and were in the pole position to get Strasburg.

This isn’t “how far does it go?” This is “there are precisely three games remaining and we can do something bad to accomplish something better later.”

by seattlebruin on Jun 9, 2010 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

This is exactly how it it starts.

One team wants to drop three, so the next team wants to drop four. Then it becomes five, six, eight, fourteen… Dangerous ugly stuff there man..

Besides, we started a crappy Rainiers team the last three games anyway, what more do you want?

"Because 100 luftballoons would be far too many"

by Thingray on Jun 9, 2010 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

Here is the situation that is being discussed, and the one and only situation that we are referring to

the 2008 Seattle Mariners are already 58-101. The 2008 Washington Nationals are already 60-99. Both the Washington Nationals and Seattle Mariners (as well as Oakland Athletics) are aware the San Diego State RHP Stephen Strasburg will be available in the 2009 first year player draft.

What do you do in this situation if you are the Mariners?

Assumptions: you do not have a time machine and cannot go back to intentionally lose earlier games or speculate about them.

by seattlebruin on Jun 9, 2010 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not to speak for Thingray, but my response to that is this:

While this specific conversation is about the final three games of 2008, the logic is that the games were meaningless and the draft pick is meaningful, correct? The draft pick was infinitely more valuable than the wins. That’s clearly true.

So while the slippery slope is often a crutch for an argument, I think Thingray’s point that it exists here is pretty valid. Wouldn’t that same logical argument have been true for the preceding series? Wouldn’t it be true for the meaningless games this 2010 team will likely be playing in a few months? Why would the last three games be the only ones under consideration? Why wouldn’t the logic be applicable elsewhere?

The value of the the wins or the prospect may fluctuate (value of the wins might be a bit higher and the prospect might be lower in Aug. 2010), but where is the threshold?

by Chris Hafner on Jun 9, 2010 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

I agree that there is an argument for the slippery slope - at what point does it become OK to intentionally run your AA team out there hoping they get smoked every night

but what we’re saying is that that’s a different discussion for another time – right now it’s just those last three games assuming you’re already screwed as is

by seattlebruin on Jun 9, 2010 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

We ran out a bad AAA team.

I think management did what they could with the exception of telling the team to purposely throw the game (which is highly frowned upon, see the Black Sox).

"Because 100 luftballoons would be far too many"

by Thingray on Jun 9, 2010 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think as GM you tie your manager's hands to the degree you can by giving him a "looking to the future roster."

Then you tell him and the players to try to win while you make pagan sacrifices and secretly hope they lose.

by Chris Hafner on Jun 9, 2010 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

Exactly.

Once it’s okay to purposely tank three games, then how far are you willing to go to get Harper, or the next Strasburg?

"Because 100 luftballoons would be far too many"

by Thingray on Jun 9, 2010 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

You send out your AAA team?

That’s what the M’s did, and the kids managed to win.

"Because 100 luftballoons would be far too many"

by Thingray on Jun 9, 2010 12:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

If the 1995 Mariners punted their August games

They would have gotten hyped 1st overall pick in 1996, Kris Benson!

Instead, they gave us a thrilling 2 months of baseball, and we drafted Gil Meche instead.

Even if Strasburg isn’t “any old #1 pick” how many times have we said that about guys? The list of 1st overall picks has a lot of hype and a lot of busts.

by HititHere on Jun 9, 2010 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ok, let's reconvene in 15 years

And analyze the careers of the 2009 first round draft picks. Maybe you’re right, or maybe Ackley will have a great career while Strasburg gets into heroin and moves to Aberdeen to start a grunge band.

by HititHere on Jun 9, 2010 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not really the point, though.

That would be results-based analysis.

by Chris Hafner on Jun 9, 2010 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Frankly, I hate the word "ever"

Because that’s impossible to quantify.

by HititHere on Jun 9, 2010 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

Except Strasburg is a lot better than Prior

and the whole point is “look how much hope he has brought them”

by seattlebruin on Jun 9, 2010 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think we should also look at, hey we got this Ackley guy.

I mean he’s no piece of shit. He has the ability to be a organization changer as well. Somewhere results based analysis was discussed. You know what, thats what this entire discussion is about. Strasburg is good therefore we should have thrown those games. Theres my 2 cents anyway.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work... I want to achieve it through not dying.

by the other side on Jun 9, 2010 12:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

The Ackley part I withdraw.

This is still results based analysis.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work... I want to achieve it through not dying.

by the other side on Jun 9, 2010 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's not really results based though

because we’re not just looking after the fact at how good Strasburg is – we KNEW how good he was back in 2008.

This isn’t “wow I can’t believe we picked Phillipe Aumont over Jason Heyward”

by seattlebruin on Jun 9, 2010 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ok I see your point.

And heres my daily ’Fuck you Bavasi".

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work... I want to achieve it through not dying.

by the other side on Jun 9, 2010 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

Analyzing it after the fact isn't fair, and that's not how you do these things.

Obviously with the benefit of hindsight, things change. You have to evaluate the decision at the time it was made given the information available.

by abender20 on Jun 9, 2010 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

What if said grunge band is really, really popular and he still makes a billion dollars.

Would he have had a better career?

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work... I want to achieve it through not dying.

by the other side on Jun 9, 2010 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

So success is erased when he commits suicide?

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work... I want to achieve it through not dying.

by the other side on Jun 9, 2010 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

Exactly!

So basically Steven can fall off the face of baseball and still be more successful. Cool.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work... I want to achieve it through not dying.

by the other side on Jun 9, 2010 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm okay with getting the whiter/older Carmelo Anthony out of that draft.

I can't resist clicking "Rec" when I see a post with four [of them] already.

by thehemogoblin on Jun 9, 2010 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's a good consolation prize, but if the Cavs called the Nuggets two years ago and said

“we’ll give you LeBron for Melo straight up,” how long would it have taken the Nuggets to accept?

by seattlebruin on Jun 9, 2010 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

Exactly!

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work... I want to achieve it through not dying.

by the other side on Jun 9, 2010 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

We aren't talking about punting the whole season.

We’re talking about the decision process going into the last series and nothing more. Expanding the argument to try to extract a global process relevance is a perversion of what we’re trying to discuss.

by abender20 on Jun 9, 2010 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

I disagree

Honestly, if you can say that about the last series, why not the 2nd to last series also?

by HititHere on Jun 9, 2010 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

THAT'S THE POINT.

WE ARE ONLY TALKING ABOUT THE LAST SERIES.

by abender20 on Jun 9, 2010 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

I completely understand

And still completely disagree. I don’t think there’s any verifiable point in the season at which management can say “losing these games on purpose is worth getting XXXXX prospect.”

by HititHere on Jun 9, 2010 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hell yes.

A human can survive like up to 30 days without food. Or if you’re that Indian guy, forever.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work... I want to achieve it through not dying.

by the other side on Jun 9, 2010 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

Guess we just disagree on seeing Strasburg as the lottery

He’s hot shit and all, especially after dazzling in his 1st outing.

But it’ was the Pirates, and…he’s still a prospect.

by HititHere on Jun 9, 2010 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

You don't strike out 14 Major League batters, walk none, throw 100 MPH

with a devastating curve and change by accident.

The “it’s just the Pirates” argument is stupid. They’re still Major League hitters

by seattlebruin on Jun 9, 2010 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

They were batting .237 as a team

I’m not saying he’s not good, but the Pirates are very bad, which makes him look better.

by HititHere on Jun 9, 2010 12:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think the point is that it isn't really important to the argument whether Strasburg or Ackley turn into stars or bust.

In fact, it’s a red herring. The point is that at the time of that series, the first pick in the draft was infinitely more valuable than the second. And we all agree that it’s horrible that the Mariners were that bad all year and still didn’t get the pick with more value.

The question is – what should they have done, if anything, to try to get that first pick?

by Chris Hafner on Jun 9, 2010 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

Run a AAA team out there, which they did.

It didn’t work out. Damn.

"Because 100 luftballoons would be far too many"

by Thingray on Jun 9, 2010 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

The first pick of the draft is the prize.

Regardless of who is in the draft it is historically more valuable than the second. I have no problem with teams tanking in order to get the first overall pick. Hell I was Justin Uptoning it back in 2004.

by Robert on Jun 9, 2010 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

So what happens when the Nationals decide to start punting with two months to go?

When do you want the M’s to start punting to stay in the Strasburg race? Maybe the Yankees should have punted from game one on, just since he was such a can’t miss god of a pitcher? It would have been better for the Yankees in the long term if they had done that.

"Because 100 luftballoons would be far too many"

by Thingray on Jun 9, 2010 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yes I am.

And I’m saying that once it becomes okay to literally throw three games, then where do you draw the line? How far back do you start this “race for the first draft pick” the next time there is a guy like Strasburg available?

"Because 100 luftballoons would be far too many"

by Thingray on Jun 9, 2010 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think abender is pointing out that we've said multiple times that we're not discussing the slippery slope right now

that’s not what this conversation is about at all – it’s about the last three games, and the last three games only.

by seattlebruin on Jun 9, 2010 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

Okay. Slippery slope is out of the conversation

(although that is my major reason for objecting to this).

That being said, we threw a crappy team on the field and they managed to win anyway. I don’t see what more we were supposed to do without literally throwing the games, which is about the biggest “no-no” in the baseball rulebook.

"Because 100 luftballoons would be far too many"

by Thingray on Jun 9, 2010 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

We tried,

but he didn’t answer the phone because he was napping.

"Because 100 luftballoons would be far too many"

by Thingray on Jun 9, 2010 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

Which they essentially did.

You seem to be arguing for much more drastic measures, such as making a ton of roster moves to call up short season players or something. They played those games with the dregs – DREGS – of the 40 man roster. If you want to go beyond the 40-man to increase your chance of losing by 5/10% or so, how much freedom to act do you really have before the commissioner shuts you down?
Yes, yes, poison the bastards, shoot your SS and all sorts of blog-y hyperbole. But seriously: position players starting at P? Pitchers starting at C? I mean, the baseline is Valbuena/Hulett/Johnson/Messenger in the line-up. How much can you actually do before the commissioner’s office gives you pick #20 by fiat?

by marc w on Jun 9, 2010 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

He was going pretty good when he killed Endy.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work... I want to achieve it through not dying.

by the other side on Jun 9, 2010 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not lateral range =(

Yuni was surprisingly not that awful at catching popups. He had plenty of experience with them…

by seattlebruin on Jun 9, 2010 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

I really like Endy.

Goddamn you fucking prick. I hate you Yuni.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work... I want to achieve it through not dying.

by the other side on Jun 9, 2010 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

Heh,*liked.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work... I want to achieve it through not dying.

by the other side on Jun 9, 2010 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's probably the biggest thing being overlooked in this discussion

As Thingray has said, what more could be done than running out the shitty squad that we had all year, the one that had already lost us 99 games? The A’s knew it would be detrimental to them to allow us to get the top pick and had just as much to lose by winning as we did. They just wanted it more, I guess

I want to poop at your house - Thingray

by tootthekazoo on Jun 9, 2010 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

Intentionally walk the first nine batters.

"Because 100 luftballoons would be far too many"

by Thingray on Jun 9, 2010 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

We were losing the first game before Ibanez/Loafie got some runs driven in

Would anyone have raised an eyebrow if they struck out on wild swings out of the zone? It’s what they do

by Graham MacAree on Jun 9, 2010 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

I meant on an individual level.

You’re asking someone who has tried with all their might to succeed for their entire sporting life to purposely fail. That’s not easy.

"Because 100 luftballoons would be far too many"

by Thingray on Jun 9, 2010 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's not a decision.

Would you have preferred Bavasi ask Riggleman to lose? Would you have preferred Riggleman to ask his players to not play their best? Would you have preferred Riggleman to fill out the worst lineup card he could (it seems he already did that).

Setting aside the thorny ethical issue, I just don’t think it’s realistic to expect any of these guys to follow these actions. I don’t see the point in doing anything other that regretting the outcome extremely.

by Chris Hafner on Jun 9, 2010 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

You're absolutely god damn right I would

Lose the damn game. Punt, throw them away, forfeit the DH, do whatever the hell you have to in order to lose. We’re talking about the best player to come along in the draft in a long damn time.

by Brian Floyd on Jun 9, 2010 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

Just an aside, I think I agree with you

but as the GM, you can do a better job of making it look like you’re trying to win while actually trying to lose

by seattlebruin on Jun 9, 2010 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, the only realistic way to do this is the way it's done in the NBA.

You play the young, crappy players early and often; you hope that they lose, they learn how to play against top-tier competition, and they don’t develop bad habits doing it.

The sad part is that Sexson/Vidro/etc. may have actually represented a worse lineup than the bunch of no-name scrubs the Mariners actually ran out there for the final series.

by Chris Hafner on Jun 9, 2010 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's apples and oranges too, this was 3 games and look at Strasburg.

Three games and then off season, with 100 losses already tucked under the belt. Not the same situation at all. I’m regretting posting this OT in a big big way.

by Kermit. on Jun 9, 2010 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think that it's spawned a lot of good discussion

and it’s honestly a topic that should have been discussed on LL.

I just want people to understand that we are only discussing the final three games – the assumption is that you are already 58-101 vs the Nationals 60-99 with three games to play

by seattlebruin on Jun 9, 2010 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

Guess I was thinking about the brains vs. brawn aspect of the situation.

It’s one thing to see benefits of losing, but willing yourself to lose intentionally? Kind of tough to imagine

There’s been plenty of evidence of players fixing games, fights, and races in history for personal gain so it’s not as if there’s any pretending that people in general are not capable of taking a fall though. There’s so many what if’s. Basically, if you’re bad just be bad dammit.

Your point about punting by playing rookies works, but then we started shitty players anyway. What if’s kind of suck.

by Kermit. on Jun 9, 2010 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

It sounds like the two sides of this discussion are not quite grasping the other side's argument

I understand that you’re speaking of just the final 3 games of the season. In that scenario, losing would have been the best option. The detractors to that argument fear the precedent that would be set by “allowing” that to happen. Yes, we could have lost without looking intentional (because we fucking sucked) but what about the next year? What if there were 6 remaining games and a team needed to lose all 6 to get Bryce Harper? Is it ok to punt the final two series? And then for the next year, what if blah blah blah. It’s a slippery slope and I definitely understand both sides of the coin.

I want to poop at your house - Thingray

by tootthekazoo on Jun 9, 2010 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

Very correct

I still think the NBA does things right with regards to the draft and their lottery system.

I actually side with people that were on the “lose-out” program, because he was more than just a prospect and that much was obvious even back in 2008.

I want to poop at your house - Thingray

by tootthekazoo on Jun 9, 2010 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

Have you ever tried to let someone win, but they still ended up losing?

It’s one thing to go “man I missed that 10 pin, stupid open frame”, and another to throw six straight gutter balls. At some point the other person knows what you’re doing, and it becomes WAY to obvious.

"Because 100 luftballoons would be far too many"

by Thingray on Jun 9, 2010 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't think you need to regret it at all - it's been a good conversation.

It has been civil, not personal, and it’s completely relevant. Spirited and civil discourse is a good thing, and the fact that I disagree with some of the other commenters doesn’t mean that I wouldn’t leap them to buy them a beer if I had the chance.

Of course now it would be a Michelob, but that’s because they’re bad people who disagree with me.

by Chris Hafner on Jun 9, 2010 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

We should have lost every single fucking game for that whole fucking year

I don’t care about precedent, I don’t care about ethics, I don’t care about the bunch of short sighted Griffey-cocksuckers that call themselves our fanbase.

by Graham MacAree on Jun 9, 2010 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions   4 recs

Graham has entered the building.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work... I want to achieve it through not dying.

by the other side on Jun 9, 2010 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

As I said up above:

Strasburg is such a can’t miss pitching god, every team should have been competing for the worst record in history, just to make sure they got him. It would have been better long-term for any organization to punt an entire year in exchange for Strasburg.

I’m being facetious, and this is why this is such a bad idea.

"Because 100 luftballoons would be far too many"

by Thingray on Jun 9, 2010 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

Oh dearie me

1) Trading Strasburg for contention or a playoff berth is probably not a good trade. You don’t trade the realistic chance of a pennant or a ring for a prospect.
2) The PR damage done by ‘good’ teams tanking would be immense.

The Mariners had a much easier path to sneakily tanking than every other team because nobody would have noticed. They blew it. And now Jim Riggleman gets to manage Strasburg.

by Graham MacAree on Jun 9, 2010 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

Look at the lineups the last three games.

What more do you do?

"Because 100 luftballoons would be far too many"

by Thingray on Jun 9, 2010 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

So you tell a professional athlete,

who is either not going to be with the team next year, so he’s playing for a contract, is a young kid trying to earn his way onto the team next year (which will probably have new people making the decisions), or an older guy trying to keep his place on the team, to tank it on purpose and keep their mouth shut “or else”?

"Because 100 luftballoons would be far too many"

by Thingray on Jun 9, 2010 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's not like any of those players really matter

Put Ibanez on the DL, bench Loafie, and tell them that any good play will be frowned on.

by Graham MacAree on Jun 9, 2010 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

I can easily see the players going to the media in that case

which probably means the commissioner’s office investigates. Worst case scenario is you lose draft picks, best case scenario is tons of bad publicity. You probably end up alienating the players as well and make yourselves a less desirable FA destination.

by Aaron Campeau on Jun 9, 2010 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think getting to the point of telling them "suck or else"

is going a bit too far.

"Because 100 luftballoons would be far too many"

by Thingray on Jun 9, 2010 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

Remember Loafie is a guy you were going to have the next year.

A random benching does not make for happy Loafie.

"Because 100 luftballoons would be far too many"

by Thingray on Jun 9, 2010 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well, this argument doesn't fly.

If he doesn’t care about the effects of benching Loafie because he won’t be there, why would he care to try to get Strasburg?

by abender20 on Jun 9, 2010 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

Right.

It’s in our best interests for the team to lose and to get the first-round pick. It’s not really in the best interests of the manager or the players.

Though I think we’re descending into the hilarious end of hyperbole at this point.

by Chris Hafner on Jun 9, 2010 1:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm out.

I know how I feel, and everyone else is entitled to their opinion.

"Because 100 luftballoons would be far too many"

by Thingray on Jun 9, 2010 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

It was a good conversation, but I think we've just about exhausted it.

Well done to all involved. This is how people can disagree energetically without getting personal or insulting.

by Chris Hafner on Jun 9, 2010 1:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

What the hell?

“I will NOW proceed”. Sheesh.

"Because 100 luftballoons would be far too many"

by Thingray on Jun 9, 2010 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

Didn't he interview for the job though?

He wanted to be here the next year, they just didn’t pick him.

"Because 100 luftballoons would be far too many"

by Thingray on Jun 9, 2010 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

Perhaps I committed a tone failure here.

This was meant to be a cheap chuckle at Lofie’s expense, not a firm or definitive statement on his motivation level.

by Chris Hafner on Jun 9, 2010 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

Fat people are just plain lazy.

It's hard to convince people to let you eat them if you're an asshole. - Thingray

by Faux on Jun 9, 2010 1:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

Why don't they get off the couch and exercise?

This line is best delivered while sitting on the couch, directed towards the TV.

by Chris Hafner on Jun 9, 2010 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

Or sitting directed towards your computer.

Wait…

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work... I want to achieve it through not dying.

by the other side on Jun 9, 2010 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

Trust me, you don't have to be fat to be lazy.

Said as a skinny-ass lazy sumbitch.

"Because 100 luftballoons would be far too many"

by Thingray on Jun 9, 2010 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

Strasburg would have brought us eight guaranteed years of joy

winning those three games brought me like thirty seconds of joy before I realized what they meant. I think I’d rather be happy until I’m 32 than the time between 23:100:13:10:32 and 23:100:13:10:59.

by seattlebruin on Jun 9, 2010 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions  

Strasburg could get hit by a bus tomorrow,

or blow his arm out next week. There is no guaranteed eight years of joy, only the hope that it might happen. One game doesn’t make a career.

"Because 100 luftballoons would be far too many"

by Thingray on Jun 9, 2010 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions  

One game doesn't, no

But it’s the promise of said career that is the real sticking point, I think.

by seattlesundevil on Jun 9, 2010 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

Don't get me wrong,

I would have LOVED to have gotten Strasburg. But it doesn’t change my opinion. I argue about this on my softball team in the bad years.

“Dude, we should all play random positions and hit opposite handed, we’re not making the playoffs anyway”… I’m not a fan. If I’m out here playing, I’m going to play the best I can, as hard as I can. I don’t care if we’re 0-100.

"Because 100 luftballoons would be far too many"

by Thingray on Jun 9, 2010 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'm totally with you Thingray.

Would it have been better for the Mariners to live those three games? Yes, absolutely. No question. Those three games were meaningless. Winning the right to draft Stasburg would have been invaluable.

But losing baseball games intentionally seems a) like an incredibly bad precedent to set within your organization; b) unlikely, given that the people who play and manage these games have pride and careers that have been built off good performance. Would Bavasi have told Riggleman to minimize the team’s chances to win the game? Would Riggleman have told his players to play poorly? Would he have told them to make mistakes? Setting the moral/ethical/precedent questions aside, I just don’t think it’s realistic to expect them to do it.

I think the only way to do it is to shift your focus to playing for the future; you run out a bunch of young guys, ask them to play their hearts out, and, secretly, hope like hell that they lose. And looking at those lineups, that looks like what they did.

The fact that they won those games sucks. It really does. But I’m not going to castigate Riggleman for trying to fulfill his job function as best he could.

by Chris Hafner on Jun 9, 2010 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions  

You play prospects to look out for the long term health of the organization

also looking out for the long term health of the organization? Losing three meaningless games and getting the best pitching prospect of all time.

by seattlebruin on Jun 9, 2010 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions  

It's not as if we were asking them to lose every game from August 15 on and go 0-45 or something

they did a good enough job of being terrible themselves – it was just three meaningless games to end a meaningless season that could have had a huge impact on the team’s future. It was short-sighted and stupid

by seattlebruin on Jun 9, 2010 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions  

But what's the alternative? Asking the team to throw the game?

Is that really realistic? Looks like they already ran out a craptastic lineup – no manager who wants to continue to be a manager will ask his players to try to play anything less than at full speed.

by Chris Hafner on Jun 9, 2010 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

That's a completely logical and appropriate response.

One that I share. The fact that I don’t see a realistic other path than the way they took doesn’t mean I don’t hate everything about what happened.

by Chris Hafner on Jun 9, 2010 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

Wow, that one side by side with Prior.

Goddamnit. I was at the point where I was enjoying watching him.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work... I want to achieve it through not dying.

by the other side on Jun 9, 2010 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions  

So a comparison to Prior.

I can’t quite remember all of the things said about him, but weren’t these mechanics “experts” in love with Prior’s delivery when he was drafted?

by BrianL on Jun 9, 2010 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think the bottom line is

pitching kinda fucks up your arm in general.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work... I want to achieve it through not dying.

by the other side on Jun 9, 2010 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions  

So...

Robotic arms! Then we can analyze the quality of a pitchers robotic implant.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work... I want to achieve it through not dying.

by the other side on Jun 9, 2010 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

How do people take these guys seriously?

Their logic falls along the lines of “Pitcher A has a similar delivery to Pitcher B. Pitcher B got injured, therefore Pitcher A will become injured.”

by BrianL on Jun 9, 2010 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

Pseudo science combined with results based analysis

I got in arguments with people over on True Blue LA about the validity of DriveLine Mechanics.

[DELETED ZOMG NO POLITICS]

by bluemax on Jun 9, 2010 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

if you're gonna waste, waste big

This is why I dump quarts of motor oil out on the street at every opportunity.

by pdb on Jun 9, 2010 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

Or in the ocean.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work... I want to achieve it through not dying.

by the other side on Jun 9, 2010 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, it was a BP joke.

I fucking suck at this.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work... I want to achieve it through not dying.

by the other side on Jun 9, 2010 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

Don't be so hard on yourself

it’s not like you’re spilling 15,000 jokes a day at the bottom of a major body of water.

by pdb on Jun 9, 2010 1:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah I don't know if this is politics but that is some fucked up shit.

All I got to say.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work... I want to achieve it through not dying.

by the other side on Jun 9, 2010 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

Going through my comments

The argument was that because you can’t disprove certain things, then some things might have merit:

Link

I did a lazy job of supporting my argument, I’ll admit it.

[DELETED ZOMG NO POLITICS]

by bluemax on Jun 9, 2010 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

In logic terms, you can never prove that something didn't happen.

You can only prove that something occured. Translate that to this argument, I’m too lazy to.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work... I want to achieve it through not dying.

by the other side on Jun 9, 2010 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't disagree with the premise of that argument, certainly.

But DLM presents their information as fact. If they approached it by collecting all of their frame by frame bullshit for old pitchers and correlating it against actual injuries backed up by data, sure. Even if they attempted to do that at all and failed, it would be interesting. Instead they use single points of data to draw hilarious conclusions that they are neither qualified to express nor justified in doing so based off of their “research”.

by abender20 on Jun 9, 2010 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

You misunderstand my comment

there is no argument about whether Driveline Mechanics is a valid site for mechanical analysis and advice. It is not.

by pdb on Jun 9, 2010 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Link fail!

I loves me some Bloom County so make it work GO GO GO GO!

by pdb on Jun 9, 2010 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions  

Awesome

Bloom County was amazing. Between that and Calvin & Hobbes, it was a great time to be into newspaper comics.

by pdb on Jun 9, 2010 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions  

Bloom County, Calvin & Hobbes, and The Far Side were the holy trinity of comic strips.

Perhaps the true measure of their genius is that they stand up – and may even be funnier – after nearly infinite rereading.

by Chris Hafner on Jun 9, 2010 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions  

I was never as enamored of the Far Side as most people

I liked it OK, but it never grabbed me the way Bloom County and C&H did. Probably because they were one-off gags and not longer drawn-out narratives. Some were pure genius, but by and large Far Side never really did it for me.

by pdb on Jun 9, 2010 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions  

It has not aged as well as the other two have, possibly due to massive overexposure.

As you point out, the strength of the narrative is a factor – I followed the other two strips partially because of the characters that they built and their interplay. Far Side didn’t have that.

by Chris Hafner on Jun 9, 2010 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions  

Goddammit Valve

Portal 2 delayed to 2011

If you guys don’t show something involving a mute, bearded protagonist at E3 you’re going to be my new 3D Realms.

by BrianL on Jun 9, 2010 10:46 AM PDT reply actions  

Well its true.

The guy I shot the bangladesh video have come up with the concept to do it. And since we have access to a 40ft green screen studio. We might be trying to get a trailer done for it this summer if we can get our effects guy off his lazy ass.

by Scruffy Lefty on Jun 9, 2010 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

@LookoutLanding Pirates demote Jeff Clement to AAA. Is this the end?

@hyphen18 Nope! he can hit, he’s young, works his ass off & can deal w/it!

Aww Hyphen – wonder who he’s trying to convince here.

by Eyebrows on Jun 9, 2010 11:06 AM PDT via mobile reply actions  

Crazy 2010 season

Seriously this is the most ridiculous season I’ve witnessed so far and it’s only about 2 1/2 months in. Maybe we can mount a ridiculous comeback because this year anything is possible. Even Baltimore can have hope when you’ve seen the following:

2 perfect games
A 3rd perfect game ruined by the worst call in history
A no-hitter to go along with those 3 perfect games
Jason Heyward
Stephen Strasburg
Angel Pagan inside-the-park home run and triple play in the same game.
7-run 9th inning comeback victory with grand slam off of the outfielders glove.

What else? I know there’s stuff I’m missing.

by Kenneth Arthur on Jun 9, 2010 11:16 AM PDT reply actions  

Yeah, you can definitely include what a person has done so far this season.

Like a player hitting .410 in June, you still don’t think he’s going to stay there in September, but it’s definitely a great feat.

by Kenneth Arthur on Jun 9, 2010 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

#1 on the list.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work... I want to achieve it through not dying.

by the other side on Jun 9, 2010 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

Crazy is currently knocking on her head (like literally rapping the side of her head softly with her fist)

and insisting that other people do it to prove that hitting yourself in the head doesn’t hurt.

by seattlebruin on Jun 9, 2010 11:58 AM PDT reply actions   2 recs

Think of it this way.

You have at work entertainment.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work... I want to achieve it through not dying.

by the other side on Jun 9, 2010 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

These stories of your workplace are frightening.

If you worked for anyone other than a defense contractor they would be hilarious.

by BrianL on Jun 9, 2010 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

You probably shouldn't try riding the unicorn again.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work... I want to achieve it through not dying.

by the other side on Jun 9, 2010 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

She is very proud of herself right now because she heated up her mashed potatoes before eating them

yesterday she ate them cold because she was too hungry to go to the microwave. The microwave is less than thirty feet from her desk.

by seattlebruin on Jun 9, 2010 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

YES!!!

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work... I want to achieve it through not dying.

by the other side on Jun 9, 2010 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

I will never get over how weird it is that LL members have their own .gif specialties

Scruffy makes LOLJeffs
seattle_since_81 makes strange and hilarious text convos
Eyebrows posts random things from the internet
Fett… makes Mariners related .gifs that set rec records

by seattlebruin on Jun 9, 2010 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

Eyebrows scares the shit out of people with his .gif's

Every time you masturbate... God kills a kitten? Fuck kittens.

by Matt Erickson on Jun 10, 2010 7:55 AM PDT up reply actions  

Some people around here have pretty low tolerance.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Jun 10, 2010 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

I like to pretend because it's the OT and all.

Plus there was the time I was looking directly at the screen when one of his gifs popped up and I actually flinched.

by Kermit. on Jun 10, 2010 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

And then also that one summer at band camp

My apologies for the above comment, it was bad in every way.

by Kermit. on Jun 10, 2010 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'll excuse the arachnophobic among us.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Jun 10, 2010 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

So what was his original plan?

Slide off the roof on a surfboard with no real idea where it would land. Sounds fun.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work... I want to achieve it through not dying.

by the other side on Jun 9, 2010 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

Does anyone else wonder

What the fuck happens for the 5 minutes after the .GIF ends?

Ambulances? Riotous laughter? PETA protests?

by HititHere on Jun 9, 2010 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

So E3 is coming up.

Who has a wishlist of things they’d love to see announced, plausible or unlikely?

For me, I want to see…

A new X-Wing game
A proper sequel to Knights of the Old Republic II
Half Life Episode 3, or just plain Half Life 3
FPS headtracking with Natal
A solid release date for GT5

by BrianL on Jun 9, 2010 12:37 PM PDT reply actions  

Won't happen

Blizzard saves all their shit for BlizzCon. Just like iD and QuakeCon.

[DELETED ZOMG NO POLITICS]

by bluemax on Jun 9, 2010 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

Honestly, I'd really like Valve or Blizzard to announce a new franchise.

Starcraft is cool, and I’ll play the campaign, but it’s not really my thing. Had my fill of WoW. Yes please on Diablo 3, but something new would be nice.

As for Valve, I love Half Life, and they should wrap up the HL2 storyline, but I don’t care too much about it at this point. L4D never really caught my interest – I played half of the first one. Portal 2 will be cool – when it comes out mid 2011.

Also – release the fucking TF2 Engineer update.

by Eyebrows on Jun 9, 2010 12:47 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

You must take video.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work... I want to achieve it through not dying.

by the other side on Jun 9, 2010 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

Oh God, I clicked blind.

Damn.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work... I want to achieve it through not dying.

by the other side on Jun 9, 2010 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

for clarification, this goes to a Gizmodo page with a humorous audio clip of an old person on the phone with tech support.

Anybody else have fun support stories?

I once spent 45 minutes trying to explain to someone over the phone that the power switch on their monitor was not the switch that controlled their computer’s power supply.

by BrianL on Jun 9, 2010 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't have thought that was possible two weeks ago.

I am currently being treated as an IT expert seemingly because I can use email and type more than two words a minute.

by Eyeball Kid on Jun 9, 2010 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

That is awesome.

I’m in a whole different boat. I don’t have awesome skills with computers. I’m pretty good as a whole but that doesn’t keep my family and extended family from yelling at me/calling me every 10 minutes about any minute little thing that happens.

 “That webpage works better when you have the interenet turned on Mom.”

 “Yeah I could probably create a spreadsheet with the 1 line of numbers you have there.”

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work... I want to achieve it through not dying.

by the other side on Jun 9, 2010 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

"I just drove 30 minutes to you house because you computer is broken."

Step1: Plug the fucker in.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work... I want to achieve it through not dying.

by the other side on Jun 9, 2010 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

How did I miss both R's?

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work... I want to achieve it through not dying.

by the other side on Jun 9, 2010 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

Two Rs and Two Ls stole them.

"Because 100 luftballoons would be far too many"

by Thingray on Jun 9, 2010 1:08 PM PDT up reply actions   4 recs

Heyo!

Nicely turned.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work... I want to achieve it through not dying.

by the other side on Jun 9, 2010 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

My grandpa called me once when he was trying to set up his email account

He kept trying and trying to enter his password, but everytime he typed in the desired phrase or word, all that was coming up was “these damn stars and asterisks!”

by seattlesundevil on Jun 9, 2010 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

That guy was really good. I would have lost it in the first minute.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work... I want to achieve it through not dying.

by the other side on Jun 9, 2010 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

I, in fact, did..

I am pretty sure I would have hung up the phone.

by seattlesundevil on Jun 9, 2010 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yay?

Divish tweet:
  
“The tarp is on the field and its raining. ”http://twitpic.com/1vc9qx" target="_blank">http://twitpic.com/1vc9qx"

We may yet be spared from enduring Snell today.

Is that the light at the end of the tunnel, or the headlights of an oncoming train?

by Benne on Jun 9, 2010 1:11 PM PDT reply actions  

This is why I shouldn't cut-and-paste tweets

http://twitpic.com/1vc9qx

Is that the light at the end of the tunnel, or the headlights of an oncoming train?

by Benne on Jun 9, 2010 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

Thank god for open air stadiums.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work... I want to achieve it through not dying.

by the other side on Jun 9, 2010 1:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

Wow.

I like to think I’m pretty knowledgeable when it comes to music. Until today. I had no idea that the Sunday Night Football theme was a “reworking” of I Hate Myself For Loving You by Joan Jett.

by Phil Hatzenbuehler on Jun 9, 2010 2:36 PM PDT reply actions  

That is execrable

but only because that’s one of my favorite Joan Jett songs.

by pdb on Jun 9, 2010 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

Really?

It’s a pretty straight-forward rendition, with the just the lyrics changed (poorly I might add).

"Because 100 luftballoons would be far too many"

by Thingray on Jun 9, 2010 2:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

Agreed.

Very recognizable riff.

by marc w on Jun 9, 2010 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

I know.

That’s why all of this is so humbling.

by Phil Hatzenbuehler on Jun 9, 2010 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

Doesn't anyone besides me want to know what possessed them to chose that song?

When I hear it, I think, “yup, I could be doing something useful instead of sitting here watching football. I hate how much I love watching it.” Sometimes I even turn the TV off and go talk to my wife.

Could they not get the rights to any songs by the The Cure and had to settle for this? I find this decision fascinating.

by PDXTai on Jun 9, 2010 4:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

I had no idea.

Probably because I’ve never heard the Sunday Night Football Theme.

by royalcurve on Jun 9, 2010 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

I bought a used copy of DeadRising the other day.

I didn’t realize how much Frank West looks like Matt Pitman.

Charter Member: Dave Sims Sweet Hat Club

by Two Rs and Two Ls on Jun 9, 2010 2:40 PM PDT reply actions  

I'm okay with this.

"Because 100 luftballoons would be far too many"

by Thingray on Jun 9, 2010 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

We'll end up with four major conferences,

which is perfect for a playoff system. That’s where I see this going.

"Because 100 luftballoons would be far too many"

by Thingray on Jun 9, 2010 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

Right, the entire point of doing this is to approximate a playoff system.

In the process, you obliterate the tradition of conferences, matchups, and all that goes along with that. I want my team to play Michigan and Ohio State and Illinois and those fucks from Michigan State because we have a history with them and I want to keep that going. Instead, we end up turning college football into the NFL in a roundabout means of achieving a playoff just because the NCAA are too stubborn to make an official playoff bracket with the BCS games. Their refusal to do what will be done anyway is aiding the erosion of the sport. I don’t give a shit if the Seahawks don’t play the 49ers twice a year. That doesn’t matter in the NFL so much, as there are few true rivalries. It matters in college and we’re going to piss away all of that.

by abender20 on Jun 9, 2010 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

So the money is more important to the NCAA than tradition?

Serious question – do athletic directors make a shit-ton of cash every year? I’m sure some people are going to benefit from it, but I don’t know enough about college athletics to know who actually does make the money.

by Jed MC on Jun 9, 2010 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

Money is far more important to the NCAA than anything else

and I know next to nothing about college football, but I do know it’s a freakin’ cash machine for the NCAA and they want the volume of cash increased. That’s all they really care about. That’s all any sports organization cares about.

by pdb on Jun 9, 2010 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's because of money that I doubt that big rivalries will ever go away.

There will always be an apple cup. I could give a shit if the Cougars played any other pac-ten team every year, except maybe the Ducks, but i doubt they fuck much with the northwest. Same in the Big-Ten depending on region and rivalry.

I’m curious how much it messes up non-conference play though. If you’re in a 16 team division and you play 9 in conference games and 3 out of conference games, you’re missing out on 6 of the teams in your division and how fair is it to crown a champion if one team has played USC, Texas, and Oklahoma and another team missed all 3? Then they get a championship game with a stroke of luck and boom – they’re in the championship.

But there are always going to be some sort of issues with some team or any system.

by Kenneth Arthur on Jun 9, 2010 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

The tradition of conferences has been ruined before

Remember the glory days of the South West Conference?

[DELETED ZOMG NO POLITICS]

by bluemax on Jun 9, 2010 3:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah...except now it's really going to eliminate the small conferences chances.

What is essentially happening is now there’s gonna be FBS (Football Bowl Series as is, just now the super conferences), FCS (Football Championship Series – the current lower division with a playoff), FFS (the Football Fucked Series – the small conferences currently in the FBS who now are rendered without a playoff and without really anything to play for).

by SethGrandpa on Jun 9, 2010 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

The year Oregon was snubbed from the Rose Bowl when they were #2 in both polls broke my god damn heart.

I was absolutely crushed and my college football fandom has never been quite the same. I’ve been rooting for the BCS’s demise since that very moment.

I can't resist clicking "Rec" when I see a post with four [of them] already.

by thehemogoblin on Jun 9, 2010 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

An invite to what?

And anything has to be better than the WAC for BSU.

I can't resist clicking "Rec" when I see a post with four [of them] already.

by thehemogoblin on Jun 9, 2010 5:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

I know they can't get a championship in the WAC.

But I’d think over time they’d be slaughtered by the likes of Texas, Oklahoma, and USC at least. But they’d also make a good case to be in a power conference.

by Kenneth Arthur on Jun 9, 2010 9:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

Somebody on Wikipedia already made some changes to the Big XII's page
The Big 12 Conference, dead at the age of 16, was comprised college athletic conference of twelve schools located mostly in the central United States.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_12_Conference

by Robert on Jun 9, 2010 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

Where are you seeing this

or are you just assuming based on Nebraska leaving?

by seattlebruin on Jun 9, 2010 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

I can only speak of what was already rumored.

Texas, Texas Tech, Baylor, Texas A&M, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State.

Some talk that Baylor won’t be able to come, in which case it may be Colorado.

Just call it the Pac-16.

by Kenneth Arthur on Jun 9, 2010 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

Colorado makes so much more sense

It brings in the Denver market, and Baylor is a dogshit program. But that might not happen if Texas legislators get their way.

Is that the light at the end of the tunnel, or the headlights of an oncoming train?

by Benne on Jun 9, 2010 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

Since when has legislation ever worked like that?

Maybeeeeee if Baylor was a public school, but I don’t think this is happening

by seattlebruin on Jun 9, 2010 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

Who the hell wants to go to Waco, TX to watch UCLA-Baylor?

I’d gladly fly to Denver to watch the UCLA-Colorado Neuheisel Bowl

by seattlebruin on Jun 9, 2010 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

I wasn't trying to bait you

I want Rick Neuheisel dead.

by Robert on Jun 9, 2010 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Oregon fans want him dead too. It's not just you.

I can't resist clicking "Rec" when I see a post with four [of them] already.

by thehemogoblin on Jun 9, 2010 5:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

Because he ran a fake punt when he was kicking our ass when he was still in Colorado?

That’s what started it, supposedly.

I can't resist clicking "Rec" when I see a post with four [of them] already.

by thehemogoblin on Jun 9, 2010 11:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

Nobody. Nobody wants Baylor and yet they keep inviting themselves everywhere.

I hope the Texas schools just say “you know what? We’ve dragged your retarded ass with us for long enough. Have fun in the C-USA or wherever.”

Is that the light at the end of the tunnel, or the headlights of an oncoming train?

by Benne on Jun 9, 2010 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Just taking a second to show my devotion to Dustin Ackley.

I know that already in this OT is some talk about Strasburg v Ackley, and I don’t want to do that I just want to show a lot of love for how awesome Dustin Ackley is.

This past week 3 of baseball america’s top 7 prospects were called up to the majors.

The best remaining prospects in the minors are:
4. Jesus Montero
6. Desmond Jennings
8. Pedro Alvarez
10. Carlos Santana
11. Dustin Ackley

Ackley is 2 for 3 with a double and a triple today by the way.

He had a .421 wOBA in May and a .398 wOBA so far in June, not counting today.

Worry about his power stroke is real, a .104 ISO, but impossible to ignore his incredible plate discipline and eye, perhaps the best in the minor leagues. It seems to me much more plausible that a 22-year-old will develop 20-homer strength down the line, than a power-hitting 22-year-old will develop an eye (Halman, Peguero)

I’m biased, but even if I weren’t an M’s fan, I would think Ackley is one of the top 5 prospects in the game. Not just because of his bat, but because if he can stick at 2B and consistently hit .300/.400/.450 he’d be one of the rarest commodities in the game. A true #2 or #3 hitter.

He’s walking at a 18.3% clip. That would be 2nd in the major leagues to Chipper Jones. But he also strikes out just 12.3 % of the time. There is no player, according to fangraphs qualified leaders out of the top 35 that comes close to that except for Aubrey Huff at 35th who walks 12.6 % of the time and strikes out 12.8 % of the time.

His BB/K ratio as a hitter is about as good as it is for Cliff Lee as a pitcher.

Ackley lead off today and I’m not sure how long he’s been doing that, but it’s clearly going to help his development, give him more opportunities and show us more of what he can do. He doesn’t seem long for West Tennessee anymore.

His .349 wOBA after a .253 first month is pretty damn impressive, and partly stunted by a .180 BABIP. Yes, his last month and a half has been fueled by BABIPs of .355 and .364, but you can expect those are closer to his capabilities than .180. Much closer.

Dustin Ackley hasn’t struck out in his last 25 at bats.

If you updated the prospect rankings for every prospect currently in the minors, he’d have to be top 5.

Please take a moment to appreciate this fine 2nd baseman.

by Kenneth Arthur on Jun 9, 2010 3:02 PM PDT reply actions  

I'm trying to think of a #3 hitter, middle infield, left-handed, .300, +15 % walk rate.

Do they exist? A legit #3 hitter? If The Book is correct, then Ackley might be best suited for this place in the order. I have no doubt he’ll fill into a 20-homer power hitter with 40 doubles.

by Kenneth Arthur on Jun 9, 2010 3:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

I wish he wasn't so boring.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Jun 9, 2010 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

Kalian Sams!

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Jun 9, 2010 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

.176/.257/.461!

79/14 K/BB in 165 at-bats!

KALIAN SAMS!

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Jun 9, 2010 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

The purity of Kalian Sams update:

49% of PAs = either HR or K. Soooooooo close!
55% of ABs = either HR or K, but that’s not as funny, because there are plenty of TTO players. Sams is the most pure two true outcome player I’ve ever seen.

by marc w on Jun 10, 2010 9:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

.855 OPS!

He hasn’t been playing for the past week though. Not sure why.

by I Lick Squirrels on Jun 10, 2010 1:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

I give him credit for being the youngest player on the team.

But a .232 average in Tacoma is still a .232 average.

He turns 23 this year, he’s still young, he’s got two years to figure it out in Tacoma and then we’ll see.

by Kenneth Arthur on Jun 10, 2010 8:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

I mean personality-wise.

I think people expect him to be a team leader but he’s a little bland.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Jun 9, 2010 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

I see.

Well I certainly didn’t want to lead anybody at 22. In fact, I hate those guys. But maybe by the time he’s Ichiros he’ll be doing the “suck it” after he hits a walk-off too.

by Kenneth Arthur on Jun 9, 2010 4:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

I would have thought that impossible a month ago.

But a 10 game cup of coffee if he keeps it up? Why not. It would behoove us to start thinking Ackley for all of 2011. Super-two blah blah blah…

by Kenneth Arthur on Jun 9, 2010 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

By the way, some of the other high profile prospects in the AL West haven't done so hot this year.

While Pineda and Franklin are locks for the top 100 right now, Pineda top 10 starting pitchers if you ask me.

by Kenneth Arthur on Jun 9, 2010 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

BUT WE WANTED STRASBURG

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Jun 9, 2010 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

Anybody think Pineda will be ready to roll into the rotation in 2012?

I see his ceiling as a legit No. 2 starter, based off of my untrained eye for absolutely nothing in particular. He’s a big part of my Mariners Master Plan 2012 that’s ready to take the world by storm.

M's fan in the Bay, soon to be LA

by perfectstrat on Jun 9, 2010 7:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

YES

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Jun 9, 2010 9:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

OK cool.

He’s really the only impact arm we have in our system at the moment, with Robles coming in as a secondary guy. Danny Cortes really needs a shot in the arm, both literally and figuratively.

M's fan in the Bay, soon to be LA

by perfectstrat on Jun 9, 2010 9:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

Cortes sucks right now.

If you’re looking for competence, but not quite dominance on the level of Pineda, go with Steve Hensley.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Jun 9, 2010 9:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hensley walks a few too many people for my liking.

And as a 23 year old not beating up on AA pitching, he’s not enough to get excited about. He’s going to have to K a few more people and cut down on the walks if he wants to produce at the major league level.

M's fan in the Bay, soon to be LA

by perfectstrat on Jun 9, 2010 9:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's only now and then.

Command has been a strong suit of his up until this point.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Jun 9, 2010 9:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

Plus he's pretty young still isn't he?

Still time for some control to develop.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work... I want to achieve it through not dying.

by the other side on Jun 10, 2010 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions  

He's like two months older than Pineda. He's young.

And I agree, he could be an excellent reliever either way.

by Kenneth Arthur on Jun 10, 2010 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

Our organization as a whole looks so much more promising to me over the past year.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work... I want to achieve it through not dying.

by the other side on Jun 10, 2010 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'd say it is.

Our 3 BA top 100 prospects this year were Ackley, Saunders, and Moore. Though we’ll lose Saunders to eligibility and Moore to not being so good this year, next season our farm system should look pretty good with Ackley in the top 5-10, Pineda in the top 25, Robles in the top 100 and Franklin somewhere in the top 100. Plus maybe Triunfel sneaks back into the top 100 and who knows what else.

Am I ahead of myself? Sure. But its fun to think that way!

by Kenneth Arthur on Jun 10, 2010 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

Even our fringey prospects look a whole lot better

Hensley, Poythress, Raben, Mangini…

FUCK THE MARINERS!

by Fuckmikereilly on Jun 10, 2010 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

Dunigan seems to have collapsed at the double-A level.

Recent injury aside, can’t say I didn’t see that one coming.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Jun 10, 2010 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think the odds of it were fairly high, though of course I thought he should've been

promoted last year. That wouldn’t have been pretty.

But yes, considering he wasn’t this awful in the AFL, it is a surprise. It’s just been a very odd year for the prospects in general.

Biggest disappointment? Might be Noriega. I know you and JH were really down on him, but seeing him ranked so highly (even if we all knew it was TOO high) made me wonder what others had seen. Nothing he can replicate, I guess. Weird.

by marc w on Jun 10, 2010 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

I've been disappointed off and on with Juan Diaz.

I thought he was among the closest to producing for us at the middle infield, but he’s been stuck in High Desert and not producing on the level he was last year.

Kind of would like to see more power out of Triunfel, but that’s noting new. Liddi gets a pass for me but is treading that territory where I don’t think much about his performances one way or the other.

Biggest pleasant surprise? Probably Tenbrink followed by Seager, followed by Vasquez. After seeing what Vasquez has been doing to lefties, I’m getting on the bandwagon.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Jun 10, 2010 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

It will be nice to move up Ackley and replace him with Seager.

Triunfel is still right about where he should be for an advanced prospect of his age. I mean, he’s still so young and he’s not getting eaten alive by any means. But if he is to play third, he needs more power.

I’m looking forward to more innings from Cleto.

by Kenneth Arthur on Jun 10, 2010 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

More Cleto would be awesome.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Jun 10, 2010 3:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

He doesn't pitch like a change-up artist though!

Look at his splits. He’s not one of those guys who holds right-handers down and beats them over the head and then gives up a .300 average to lefties. His stuff is nothing special, but he gets EXTREME groundballs against southpaws, and they fare a bit worse against him.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Jun 10, 2010 3:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

Should we be encouraged by Liddi posting an .800 OPS with reasonable discipline at West Tenn?

it looks like he hasn’t really had a home/road split, but has struggled a bit with righties, but that was to be expected, correct?

by seattlebruin on Jun 10, 2010 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yes, more or less.

I would say that I’d like to see more power out of him, and fewer strikeouts, but he’s better than Tui was the first time he was in the league. I’m trying to figure out how much my impressions of him are being tempered by the enormous expectations after last season.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Jun 10, 2010 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

.370 BABIP but a .338 wOBA.

He’s off to a strong start in June though. 36 PA’s, only 14% K’s thus far, after rouhly 24% in the first two months. It’s somewhat encouraging.

by Kenneth Arthur on Jun 10, 2010 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, its just nice to see something.

I know small sample size, but SSS aside you have to admit that sometimes SSS is an indicator of a change in the player. You can’t be certain of anything until enough time has played out, but everything has to start somewhere, right?

by Kenneth Arthur on Jun 10, 2010 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think it's great.

Is he as good as his stats made him seem last year? No. But he is holding his own in the upper minors? Yes. That’s massive.

The power production he can work on, but I thought he might struggle for a half year or so.

by marc w on Jun 10, 2010 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

Some guys naturally post higher than expected BABIPs though

it’s a lot more common for a hitter to exceed expected BABIP than a pitcher

by seattlebruin on Jun 10, 2010 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

Talented physically, yes.

Hitting? We had no real inkling of that after his two MWL seasons.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Jun 10, 2010 3:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sorry, should have said a talented athlete

which generally speaking should lead to slightly higher than average BABIPs, assuming he has some baseball talent

by seattlebruin on Jun 10, 2010 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

Strong hitters can.

BABIP is more a function of skillset and ability in hitters than it is in pitchers, so guys that square up well or can run out grounders tend to run higher than normal BABIP.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Jun 10, 2010 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

I know that as you get older, numbers improve and what not.

But BABIPs of .327 and .314 the two previous seasons, and I heard a lot of people say “But look at .422 BABIP!!” after last season. Reasonable would seem to be in the .340 range. He’s at .370 this year. And while some hitters seem to be one-hit wonders because they have a great BABIP season, great overall hitters chug along despite BABIP. Its just something I will be keeping an eye on for Liddi.
What’s the park factor for West Tennessee? Does it favor pitchers?

by Kenneth Arthur on Jun 10, 2010 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

I like Liddi

But I think its fairly clear that the top 10 prospects of the M’s have shifted around a good bit since the start of the season. Not unusual of course.

by Kenneth Arthur on Jun 10, 2010 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

Slight hitters park.

For right-handers, the ball will carry out of the park more easily, where left-handers will usually see those same balls turn to doubles or triples.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Jun 10, 2010 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hey JY

Any science to the success of Kasparek? He’s obviously way too old for his league and he isn’t striking out too many. And he doesn’t have the control to make up for it. But his BABIP has seemed normal and his strand rates are normal. He’s managed somehow to keep the ball in the yard in High Desert, perhaps even more than he should.

FUCK THE MARINERS!

by Fuckmikereilly on Jun 10, 2010 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'll have to get back to you on that.

I’ve been trying to figure him out myself for a while. He’s not getting groundballs at the same rate he was last year, which is enough to make one worry a lot given where he’s pitching, but he’s managing to survive even without the Ks he had last year.

I want to think it’s real, but my inclination right now is to think that he’s going to regress at some point.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Jun 10, 2010 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

I have no idea, but I like the guy.

Really want more information, but again, he was a well-regarded prospect before he blew out his elbow in college. Even if he’s never going to throw it by hitters and rack up Ks, there’s something about him that’s intriguing.
I guess he reminds me so much of Fister (though Fister’s first few years in the M’s system were not good at all), and Fister’s one of the most mysterious pitchers I’ve seen.

by marc w on Jun 11, 2010 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

Sheesh.

Post-game caller thinks there must be something going on in the clubhouse— ’cause look at Silva in Chicago.

by msb on Jun 9, 2010 8:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

If things are going wrong, it must be clubhouse chemistry

Nevermind the fact that baseball is a rather static game built upon the contribution of individual efforts moreso than any other sport.

by BrianL on Jun 9, 2010 8:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

GM is officially dropping the "Chevy" nickname for Chevrolet, in an attempt to build brand consistency.

Link.

Setting aside for a moment the fact that asking your customer base to disregard a century’s worth of history and habit tied to the “Chevy” nickname, I want to concentrate on this brow-furrowing quote:

"When you look at the most recognized brands throughout the world, such as Coke or Apple for instance, one of the things they all focus on is the consistency of their branding," the memo said. "Why is this consistency so important? The more consistent a brand becomes, the more prominent and recognizable it is with the consumer."

Is “Coke” really the example you wanted to use there? You know, the popular nickname that almost everybody uses in lieu of the brand’s proper name?

by Chris Hafner on Jun 9, 2010 9:50 PM PDT reply actions  

Gee, really glad we went out of our way to save this company from itself.

With forward-thinking like this, it’s already paying dividends!

by ThomasG on Jun 10, 2010 6:22 AM PDT up reply actions  

They actually made something on the order of $800 million since emerging from bankruptcy

and are well on their way towards fully repaying the government. I’m not usually a staunch defender of big business but in this case GM seems to know what they’re doing.

by pdb on Jun 10, 2010 6:52 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I don't really have a problem with GM as a whole.

Their products are better than they were, and regardless I think a bailout thread would get into the ZOMG NO POLITICS territory.

by Chris Hafner on Jun 10, 2010 7:11 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

Definitely was going for the sarcastic sarcasm angle there.

Probably should have coffee first before attempting humor that early in the morning.

by ThomasG on Jun 10, 2010 9:15 AM PDT up reply actions  

Meant to be:

Setting aside for a moment the imbecility of asking your customer base to disregard …

by Chris Hafner on Jun 9, 2010 9:51 PM PDT reply actions  

There's a reason Pete Carroll left.

He knew what was going to happen.

I can't resist clicking "Rec" when I see a post with four [of them] already.

by thehemogoblin on Jun 9, 2010 11:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

I knew there was a reason we hired Lame duck Kiffin

Fuck I just want to crawl in a hole and ignore the world for 2 years.

[DELETED ZOMG NO POLITICS]

by bluemax on Jun 10, 2010 1:13 AM PDT up reply actions  

WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

by seattlebruin on Jun 10, 2010 9:19 AM PDT up reply actions  

This just in from space:

Titan is still fucking weird

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Jun 10, 2010 12:35 AM PDT reply actions  

At 300 degrees F below zero

If it’s life Jim, it’s not as we know it.

by PDXTai on Jun 10, 2010 8:30 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'm fond of astronomy

as it seems to be the science most prone to meddling with our delicate sensibilities.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Jun 10, 2010 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

At least if Titians attack they sound like they'll be plenty flammable

This is going to be the most spectacular interplanetary war of all time, in my head it looks like the 4th of July

by Kermit. on Jun 10, 2010 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

Bowled next to this group of black dudes that all had nicknames for each other.

One was “GMoney,” one was “Patch” one was “Black” (clever, huh?) and one was… I think it was something like “2Mil.” I think we need to name one of our players something like that. I was thinking about calling Rob Johnson “5Dolla” or “10Centz” or “PBallz.” Or maybe it should go to Mike Carp.

...and now I'm here

by CapSea on Jun 10, 2010 1:27 AM PDT reply actions  

Stupid RJ nick names:

Puberty – because he’s just dropped his balls
Porn star – because he sucks balls
OJ – because the glove doesn’t fit and he’s murdered a few rallies
CERAFTW – please don’t pick this one

by PDXTai on Jun 10, 2010 9:24 AM PDT up reply actions   4 recs

It's cheese.

White people like bad cheese.

by Decatur on Jun 10, 2010 6:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

I didn't realize black people had refined cheese tastes.

I really need to start studying up on my stereotypes. I don’t get the Mayo or Alicia Keys ones either =(.

...and now I'm here

by CapSea on Jun 10, 2010 6:50 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Um...

Moneyball (2011)
Brad Pitt … Billy Beane
Jonah Hill … Paul De Podesta

really?? really??

by msb on Jun 10, 2010 8:21 AM PDT reply actions  

Had you not heard about this?

It was originally supposed to be done by Steven Soderbergh. I’m not kidding. But then the studio realized it would cost a fortune and only nine people would see it, so they scrapped that and fobbed it off on Bennett Miller, who directed Capote.

by pdb on Jun 10, 2010 8:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

Oh, I had heard about the movie

I missed that Jonah Hill (of all people) had been brought in to replace the actor playing de Podesta.

I’m guessing that indicates a certain change of tone.

by msb on Jun 10, 2010 8:27 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'm really bummed that Soderbergh's no longer attached to this

He was going to do it sort of Waking Life-style, which would have been awesome.

by pdb on Jun 10, 2010 8:31 AM PDT up reply actions  

It was originally Demetri Martin I think.

Apparently DePodesta got giant without me realizing it.

by Mariner John on Jun 10, 2010 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think it would be interesting if Nebraska goes to the Big 10

To make it a 12 team conference and nobody else moves… Then does the Big 10 become the Big 12 and the Big 12 become the Big 10?

by seattlesundevil on Jun 10, 2010 9:34 AM PDT up reply actions  

What I don't like, however, is the prospect of having ASU in the Pac-16 East division

We suck recently when playing against Cal / USC / Oregon etc… and now we would have to play against Oklahoma / Texas / OK State etc… ? Eff.

by seattlesundevil on Jun 10, 2010 9:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

Well this is certainly interesting...
The coach said it’s possible the Pac-16 would push for two automatic bids to the BCS, one for each division champion. That potential bonanza could open the possibility of the two division champs from one league playing for the national title, and it would eliminate the need for a conference championship game.

“The Pac-10 doesn’t believe in a championship game,” the coach said. “And coaches in the Big 12 don’t like it anyway.”

Source: ESPN

by seattlesundevil on Jun 10, 2010 9:43 AM PDT up reply actions  

The Big 10 is waiting for the dominos to fall.

They are going to get Nebraska and possibly Pitt, Rutgers, one other Big East school then try to force ND in.

by Robert on Jun 10, 2010 9:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

I love how the main concern in the video there is how far Colorado will have to travel.

They weren’t terrible close to anyone (like 500 miles from the closest school). Maybe I’m overestimating how much of a difference 350 miles is.

by Mariner John on Jun 10, 2010 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions  

I don't think it's a huge deal because it's only one time zone

and they’ll be in the eastern division with the Texas, Oklahoma and Arizona schools, so they won’t have to travel all that much

by seattlebruin on Jun 10, 2010 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

What the fuck?

So are we going to settle on Pac-12? Pac-11? Take the scraps of the big-12? This has become one big shit storm, we should have locked down Texas FIRST.

by Kenneth Arthur on Jun 10, 2010 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not so fast AGAIN...

Chip Brown (Orangebloods.com) twitter..

http://twitter.com/ChipBrownOB/status/15875443831

There’s a Kansas City TV report saying Texas and A&M to the Big Ten. That would be news to those schools.

by seattlesundevil on Jun 10, 2010 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

Aaah! Speculation!!!

I guess it’s best to wait until its official. Colorado officially announced it. Let’s wait because 99% of reports up to this point said Pac-Ten.

by Kenneth Arthur on Jun 10, 2010 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

That sounds legit.

I don't have a solution but I admire the problem.

by the other side on Jun 10, 2010 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

Shocking... Another refute.
"The report circulating about an immediate announcement today concerning Oklahoma State University and conference realignment is without merit.

“There are no announcements planned by Oklahoma State University. We remain committed to the Big 12 Conference. If there are additional defections, we will have to evaluate our options."



Read more: http://www.kansascity.com/2010/06/10/2007205/oklahoma-state-disputes-report.html#ixzz0qUGpT9V5

by seattlesundevil on Jun 10, 2010 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not that I have anything against Utah

But I don’t want the Big 10 and SEC to get that much better while we add Colorado and Utah.

by Kenneth Arthur on Jun 10, 2010 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

TOMORROW'S WORLD CUP DAY HOORAY HOORAY HOORAY

To get you in the mood, here is the official anthem of the World Cup, by K’Naan. It’s an awesome song, and the whole record (Troubador) is really good as well.

by pdb on Jun 10, 2010 9:10 AM PDT reply actions  

I just realized that as England/USA gets underway

I will be sitting on a HS football field in Moses Lake, watching a HS graduation, prior to jumping in the car to race up the mountain to Cle Elum for a second HS graduation.

Yay World Cup!

by msb on Jun 10, 2010 9:15 AM PDT up reply actions  

My friend linked me to about a half dozen variations of this song

the Thai version might be the best.

[DELETED ZOMG NO POLITICS]

by bluemax on Jun 10, 2010 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions  

Stupid ESPN

should post a new article instead of updating the old one. Old one said “source says they could announce as soon as Thursday,” new one has the official announcement in it

by seattlebruin on Jun 10, 2010 9:34 AM PDT up reply actions  

To keep this subthread moderately useful

The reasoning behind why they picked Colorado over Baylor (which we may not be able to discuss here) is hilarious and make me want to give Berkley a giant bear hug.

by Robert on Jun 10, 2010 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'm not sure which I would like more

Either the Pac-16 or keeping the Big-12 intact (with Nebraska not leaving) and inviting Utah for the Pac-12.

I am highly skeptical that this is even an option at this point, as all signs point to Nebraska jumping to the Big 10, but it’s interesting nonetheless.

by seattlesundevil on Jun 10, 2010 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions  

I thought the reasons were pretty simple

1) Colorado brings the Denver market, which is the last major market in the west not already in the Pac Ten
2) Baylor is a church-affiliated school
3) Baylor bring almost nothing to the table athletically
4) Waco, TX

by seattlebruin on Jun 10, 2010 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

They had a good basketball team last year!

And no one has been murdered there for almost 7 years!

by Mariner John on Jun 10, 2010 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions  

Oh hell yes!

80’s Dating Videos

"I might be a butt hoarder...speed skating butts that is." - wazzu93

by kevin_ess on Jun 10, 2010 2:39 PM PDT reply actions  

This may have been asked before.

But now that the Mariners are essentially out of it, which of the 3 in the division would you prefer to win? And, if they made it to the playoffs, is there any chance you would root for their success?

...and now I'm here

by CapSea on Jun 10, 2010 2:49 PM PDT reply actions  

A's and Rangers are essentially equals

I really hate the A’s because we had a nice little rivalry in the early 2000’s.

I really hate the Rangers because ohmygodmichaelyoung.

I would root for either over the Red Sox, Yankees, Angels, and maaaaaybe the Cardinals.

FUCK THE MARINERS!

by Fuckmikereilly on Jun 10, 2010 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

Rangers, because prospects.

And I don’t hate them quite as much as the other two.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Jun 10, 2010 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

There is that....

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Jun 10, 2010 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

This is a great point.

That said, I like how talented the Rangers are and they’ve never felt like a true rival the way the A’s and Angels have.

...and now I'm here

by CapSea on Jun 10, 2010 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not really, I'd just want them to play well and provide entertaining baseball

I very rarely find myself rooting for a specific team in the playoffs, just for good games.

All bets are off if the Nationals, Braves or Padres make the playoffs this year

by seattlebruin on Jun 10, 2010 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

And as to why those three NL teams

Nationals – STRASBURG.
Braves – my favorite non-Mariners team growing up, they were always on TV
Padres – gotta root for the hometown bandwagon

by seattlebruin on Jun 10, 2010 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

Oakland, because that would be fascinating

and I would hope people saying the M’s lost because they didn’t pay attention to the offense would have momentary bouts of cognitive dissonance. “Eric…Chavez..dingers…cust…”

by marc w on Jun 10, 2010 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

I hope we're the last to make the World Series.

If we’re gonna suck, we may as well be the standard of futility.

FUCK THE MARINERS!

by Fuckmikereilly on Jun 10, 2010 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

I mean as a general rule of thumb

I cannot think of any reason to root for the Angels, ever

by seattlebruin on Jun 10, 2010 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

You know, I've always hated them.

But man, Halos Heaven managed to bring this to a level of hate I didn’t know was possible.

...and now I'm here

by CapSea on Jun 10, 2010 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

It is rather convenient that our biggest rival has such a thoroughly hateable fan site.

I was about to say “thoroughly hateable fan base,” but any fan base that provided us with Eyebrows can’t be all bad.

by Chris Hafner on Jun 10, 2010 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

I actually like many of the Angels fans I know

one of them is one of my closest friends.

And yet I still hate the Angels and everything they represent.

by seattlebruin on Jun 10, 2010 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

I have close friends who are Red Sox, Yankees, and Angels fans.

And I’d have to say 3 of the 4 of them are more baseball knowledgeable than most Mariners fans I know.

The Angels fan base as a whole is a little ehhhhh.

FUCK THE MARINERS!

by Fuckmikereilly on Jun 10, 2010 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think I would actually root for that team

but thank goodness this is only a hypothetical situation.

Right?

by seattlebruin on Jun 10, 2010 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

That might actually be a fun team to watch.

I’d bet that Hitler would be a pretty out-of-the-box manager, and I’ll bet there would be some serious chemistry issues in that locker room.

by Chris Hafner on Jun 10, 2010 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

Question for SNES buffs:

I just downloaded a SNES emulator the other day and am looking for some good roms to play. Any suggestions? What were your top 3 favorite games from the Super Nintendo?

Thanks in advance.

Karma police, arrest this man.

by wyte_lightning on Jun 10, 2010 2:58 PM PDT reply actions  

That would be a difficult question to answer.

It would be easy to go the RPG route and say something like Final Fantasy II or III, Secret of Mana, Chrono Trigger, or even Super Mario RPG or Earthbound, but if you’re not into that sort of thing…

Yoshi’s Island? Super Castlevania IV? Zelda III? ActRaiser? Earthworm Jim?

I’d suggest Harvest Moon, but we may never see you again.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Jun 10, 2010 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

Guilty pleasure based-on-a-movie game:

Judge Dredd is surprisingly fun.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Jun 10, 2010 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

Earthworm Jim is awesome.

Is that the light at the end of the tunnel, or the headlights of an oncoming train?

by Benne on Jun 10, 2010 6:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

That I haven't learned to hate?

Mega Man X
Super Mario World
Yoshi’s Island

But I love me some platforming.

Others I’d throw out there:

The DKC trilogy
Goemon
Super Castlevania IV
Contra whatever
R-Type
Link to the Past
Super Metroid
Star Fox

Crap if I was at home I could recommend so much more/better.

[DELETED ZOMG NO POLITICS]

by bluemax on Jun 10, 2010 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

Good call on Metroid.

It’s Contra III though, and for clarity’s sake, by Goeman he means what ended up being “Legend of the Mystical Ninja” in the U.S. and was probably the second best “beat-’em-up” with RPG elements we’ve seen, losing out to River City Ransom in the end. Mystical Ninja is kind of its own thing though as gameplay goes, and man does it fuck with the fourth wall.

I’d add that I think the Mega Man X3 was probably the best of that series, but it’s bugged to where it doesn’t work well on emulators. Some antipiracy thing they installed.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Jun 10, 2010 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's worked fine on emulators for years as far as I know.

I finished it like 3 years ago.

[DELETED ZOMG NO POLITICS]

by bluemax on Jun 10, 2010 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

I found one working rom after a long time searching

but by that time I already had the cartridge.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Jun 10, 2010 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'll go a different direction and say

Dragon Quest V with translation patch.

And Breath of Fire II with the retranslation patch.

If you like turn based strategy you might also check out Front Mission, Ogre Battle and Fire Emblem.

[DELETED ZOMG NO POLITICS]

by bluemax on Jun 10, 2010 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

Thank god someone retranslated Breath of Fire II

That was one of the worst localizations I’ve ever seen.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Jun 10, 2010 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

Indeed

that was a much better fan project than the FF3/6 one.

[DELETED ZOMG NO POLITICS]

by bluemax on Jun 10, 2010 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

I took four years of Japanese in high school, which I've barely used and remember little of.

I could have done a better translation of BoF II than what originally was published.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Jun 10, 2010 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

Thanks for all the imput so far...

I’ll definitely be taking some time to sift through those. Feel free to keep ’em coming.

Karma police, arrest this man.

by wyte_lightning on Jun 10, 2010 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

Donkey Kong Country (all three), Super Mario World, NBA Jam, Final Fantasy VI

Is that the light at the end of the tunnel, or the headlights of an oncoming train?

by Benne on Jun 10, 2010 6:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

ZNES is the only SNES emulator worth using.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Jun 10, 2010 7:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

You mean ZSNES?

If so, yes it’s fantastic.

by BrianL on Jun 10, 2010 11:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, that's what I meant.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Jun 11, 2010 12:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

What was the other one?

Snes9x? I think that was it. It became so much better then ZSNES, even though ZSNES was the gold standard for a long time.

38!

by joof on Jun 11, 2010 10:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, that was the other primary one.

I still use ZSNES because I’ve actually been able to get it to do multiplayer online with Seiken Densetsu 3 and HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE.

But I think that’s the only system that has had one emulator everyone knew and was using, except for maybe NeoRageX for NeoGeo games. Not that anyone plays those.

I use Gens for Genesis and JNES for NES games but they’ve probably gone through six other newer iterations since then. I don’t know. I haven’t really done this sort of thing for about five years.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Jun 11, 2010 11:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

See, I'd love to play Tecmo Super Bowl on NES against people online.

I brought the NES to work last week and took on one of our regulars. I scored on the last play of regulation with the Bills to take it into overtime against his Giants, then scored on the opening possession in OT with a touchdown.

Charter Member: Dave Sims Sweet Hat Club

by Two Rs and Two Ls on Jun 12, 2010 2:17 AM PDT up reply actions  

I have a real difficult time with platformers on emulator.

I would suggest against it unless you have a joystick/controller to use USB, or unless you’re willing to use save-states. For that reason, RPGs and games with less complex inputs are good.

I definitely recommend Chrono Trigger and/or Super Mario RPG. I never really played an RPG before Mario. If you’re the same, it’ll make you a fan.

I also agree with Yoshi’s Island (Super Mario World 2) and Mega Man X for platformers, if you do want to go that route.

Some others: Tetris Attack, Earthbound, NBA Jam TE.

Charter Member: Dave Sims Sweet Hat Club

by Two Rs and Two Ls on Jun 11, 2010 2:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

It is a little

too many years spent playing on emulators when my family couldn’t afford a new console.

[DELETED ZOMG NO POLITICS]

by bluemax on Jun 11, 2010 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

I second Earthbound 110%.

That game has some of the weirdest boss fights ever.

by Kirk on Jun 12, 2010 11:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

Third-strongest mole!

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Jun 13, 2010 12:17 AM PDT up reply actions  

Buh??

Lineup today from USSM:

Ichiro, DH
Langerhans, RF
Gutierrez, CF
Lopez, 3B
Josh Wilson, SS
Carp, 1B
Johnson, C
Saunders, LF
Figgins, 2B

Yay for Langerhans?

Karma police, arrest this man.

by wyte_lightning on Jun 10, 2010 3:26 PM PDT reply actions  

Well, that's something

What? I’m not sure. But it’s something.

by pdb on Jun 10, 2010 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

DH, Ichiro at DH?

Semi off day?

I don't have a solution but I admire the problem.

by the other side on Jun 10, 2010 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

He is not human, he shouldn't need one.

I don't have a solution but I admire the problem.

by the other side on Jun 10, 2010 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well since you mentioned it...

Tui in RF would be entertaining as hell. This season is shit, let’s just have fun with it.

I don't have a solution but I admire the problem.

by the other side on Jun 10, 2010 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

I like Langerhans too much

not that I’m going to watch the game anyway, but the sentiment is there!

by seattlebruin on Jun 10, 2010 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

Good point.

Maybe we can put him at catcher. You wanna play? Then squat down and get to work.

I don't have a solution but I admire the problem.

by the other side on Jun 10, 2010 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

I hope you're talking about Tui.

Having him squat down and get to work should be the only way he ever gets on the field.

Karma police, arrest this man.

by wyte_lightning on Jun 10, 2010 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

Makes you wonder about Rob and Sean.

I don't have a solution but I admire the problem.

by the other side on Jun 10, 2010 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

Wow... Seriously? I like the sentiment of it and all.. but the execution? Fail.
The restaurant BGR: The Burger Joint, is creating the “Strasburger” to recount the young pitcher’s climb. The burger is topped with a hot dog and smothered in aged Vermont cheddar cheese.

The hot dog symbolizes Strasburg’s professional debut with the Phoenix Desert Dogs in 2009. It’s topped with “Syracuse Orange” aged Vermont cheddar to represent his promotion to Triple-A Syracuse. All that is on top of a BGR patty to signify his new home with the Nationals.

by seattlesundevil on Jun 10, 2010 3:48 PM PDT reply actions  

Mistakenly posted in the old OT, reposting here:

 Any networking gurus around?

I had to get a new router yesterday after my old one died, and now I’m having a strange problem with the new D-Link router and my PS3.

The PS3 can only obtain an IP address if I let the WAN port on the router respond to ping requests, which I’ve been told in the past is a bad thing.

Is leaving that option on actually bad? And if so, is there something else in my network config that I might be missing?

by Jeff Nye on Jun 10, 2010 5:14 PM PDT reply actions  

Is the PS3 acquiring a public address, or is it behind a NAT (192.168.1.x address)?

It's hard to convince people to let you eat them if you're an asshole. - Thingray

by Faux on Jun 10, 2010 5:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

NAT

My laptop is at .101, and the PS3 is at .100.

It might be acquiring an external IP address too, but I don’t know how to check that.

by Jeff Nye on Jun 10, 2010 5:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well, that's the weird thing. I'm not on a WAN.

My router is hooked up directly to my Broadstripe cable modem.

Maybe they put me on a WAN though? I’m not sure why else that setting would matter.

If leaving that setting on isn’t a security risk, though, I can just leave well enough alone.

by Jeff Nye on Jun 10, 2010 5:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sorry, WAN is the dedicated port that goes out to your cable modem.

Your router probably has four ports bunched together and one off to the side (or five, and one will say something different on one end). Do you have your modem connected to that port, first of all?

It's hard to convince people to let you eat them if you're an asshole. - Thingray

by Faux on Jun 10, 2010 5:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

Alright. Whichever I try, with the router disconnected from the WAN, or the option in question off:

All give the PS3’s generic “An error occurred during communication with the server. This is a DNS error.” message.

by Jeff Nye on Jun 10, 2010 6:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

Oh, you're using the connection test. Let's back up.

So when you allow pings, the connection test reports successful.
But when you ignore pings, the test reports that you cannot get an IP.

Give me an email fauxsnax in the gmail.com so we don’t clutter the threads more, but Brian might have more insight to this later, being a PS3 owner.

I have a few questions from the get-go.
Wired or wireless PS3 connection?
Model number of router

It's hard to convince people to let you eat them if you're an asshole. - Thingray

by Faux on Jun 10, 2010 6:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

For what it's worth, I would guess that setting the ping setting on your router is doing something else.

I can’t think of why the respond to ping on WAN would need to be on.

You might see if there’s a firmware update for your router. You might also make sure you are changing the router’s settings using IE. Some routers (notably Netgear) don’t play well with other browsers.

by PDXTai on Jun 10, 2010 10:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

Finally started playing Final Fantasy XIII

Here’s my preliminary evaluation only 2 hours into the game:

How come I can only control one player during battle? One of my favorite parts of FF is strategizing and customizing my various characters. I don’t like having my balls cut off in that department, and I really don’t like hitting “auto-battle” over and over again to easily defeat monotonous mooks.

—Where the hell are the shops, the inns, the equipment upgrades…you know, all the things that made FF FUN?

—2 hours in, and I still don’t know anything about the story or care about the characters. Biiiiiggggg problem in my eyes. In FFIV and FFVI, I only needed 40 minutes or so to know the stakes and get an idea of why I should cheer for these guys; since they were mostly likeable, their inevitable backstories would have more emotional impact for me. FFVII and FFX took a bit longer to establish the story, but I still liked the characters then, and cared about what happened to them.

In FFXIII, I feel nothing. I see a bunch of guys running from Point A to Point B, without rhyme or reason. I feel like I’m wandering through a movie shoot, with nobody letting me read the script. Speaking of which…

—What the fuck happened to Square-Enix’s storytelling ability? I’m just going to quote Yahtzee here: “You’re supposed to weave the exposition into the narrative, not hand the audience a fucking glossary when they walk into the theater.” I don’t want to have to open a fucking diary log every 5 minutes just to know what the hell is going on. It’s boring. Show, don’t tell. Isn’t that what they taught you in 9th grade Creative Writing class?

—I’m only 2 hours in the game and I already have an essay’s worth of complaints, without even getting into the ludicrous linearity. Is it worth soldering on? Do things improve? I really want to believe I didn’t just waste $60 on this thing.

Is that the light at the end of the tunnel, or the headlights of an oncoming train?

by Benne on Jun 10, 2010 9:28 PM PDT reply actions  

Forgot to mention:

I played 2 hours, then got bored and switched to God of War 3. How does this happen? Final Fantasy is normally my most dangerous timesink this side of TV Tropes. I can’t even be bothered to play through the night as usual.

—The HD graphics are really pretty. I think I can guess what Square Enix spent most of their time on…..

Is that the light at the end of the tunnel, or the headlights of an oncoming train?

by Benne on Jun 10, 2010 9:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's what really kills me

I’ve heard everywhere that it gets really good at 25-30 hours in. But why the fuck should I sit through 20-25 hours of shit just to get to the part? Fuck that.

Is that the light at the end of the tunnel, or the headlights of an oncoming train?

by Benne on Jun 10, 2010 9:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

You heard wrong.

Once you get to the part that’s really an open world, it gets worse, not better.

It’s got some interesting story possibilities, and the combat paradigm system is interesting; but it’s simply not a very fun game.

by Jeff Nye on Jun 10, 2010 9:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

See I felt the exact same way.

Everyone said that once I got to that point the game gets good, but I just didn’t get it.

by BrianL on Jun 10, 2010 10:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think I might pick up FFIII again.

It’s been a while since I’ve played it, worth doing for the music alone.

by BrianL on Jun 10, 2010 11:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

TACTICS!

I like getting Ninjas before the end of the first act and bringing swift death to my enemies.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Jun 10, 2010 11:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

I was thinking about purchasing a Sounders jersey, but I have a question.

How far off are the replicas from the authentics? It is worth the extra cash?

Charter Member: Dave Sims Sweet Hat Club

by Two Rs and Two Ls on Jun 11, 2010 4:29 AM PDT reply actions  

This interests me as well.

I need a Sounders jersey in my collection.

"Because 100 luftballoons would be far too many"

by Thingray on Jun 11, 2010 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's what I thought.

Pricy little bastards, but I still want one. Probably short-sleeved though, just because I would wear it more often. Wanna talk expensive though, Everett Silvertips jerseys were $120.00 (with no name or number) last time I checked. For MINOR LEAGUE HOCKEY.

"Because 100 luftballoons would be far too many"

by Thingray on Jun 11, 2010 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's definitely very involved, but I wouldn't call it boring.

If you’re bored, why not just be a bad guy – go shoot innocent people. Or try online play?

by Kenneth Arthur on Jun 11, 2010 8:31 AM PDT up reply actions  

This seems like it should be sarcastic

I am pretty much addicted – finally beat the single player last night.. Pretty amazing.

Online is too!

by seattlesundevil on Jun 11, 2010 9:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'm not addicted yet.

I admit I get intimidated by games with so much to do. How many hours did it take you to complete?

by Kenneth Arthur on Jun 11, 2010 9:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

I finished it in around 32 hours

But I did a shit ton of side missions and roaming in the desert, too..

by seattlesundevil on Jun 11, 2010 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think I'm just about done with the Mexico parts

I am absolutely in love with the game. I never thought I could have so much fun wandering around looking for flowers and playing horseshoes but yet I still throw an hour or two per night at it. I’m playing through as a good guy, and this may be the first game that I will immediately restart and play again to be a bad guy. It’s so fun

I want to poop at your house - Thingray

by tootthekazoo on Jun 11, 2010 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yup, I may have to do the same.. Although it appears as though you can continue to play after the missions are done

So I might just start becoming a badass now – see how fulfilling that is – and if it doesn’t work right, I will be starting over.

It’s when you finish the Mexican parts that becomes a lot of fun… Hunting bears up in Tall Trees is intense.

by seattlesundevil on Jun 11, 2010 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's what I'm waiting for

I really want to start encountering bears and being in the great plains. Also, is that where you start encountering wild boars? I’m on the hunting challenge that requires boar tusks and want to make sure I’m not being completely retarded about not finding any of them

I want to poop at your house - Thingray

by tootthekazoo on Jun 11, 2010 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

The majority of them are there, yeah...

They are also in the bog area around Thieves Landing (where I got my first one) and, as Chris said, in Great Plains

by seattlesundevil on Jun 11, 2010 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think they CAN be just about anywhere.. They just heavily populate the Tall Trees area

That place scares the shit out of me. I will throw down some bait to try and kill a bear, run 50 yards up a hill and then this scenario inevitably plays out:

Horse killed by bear, leaving me dazed on the ground
Said bear leaps on me, mauls me once, I run away
Turn around to shoot bear, second bear mauls me from the side
Roll out of the way of that bear, start running up a hill to avoid both bears chasing me
Cougar at the top of the next hill joins the chase
Boar runs me over seconds later
Feeding Frenzy on ol Mr Marsten

by seattlesundevil on Jun 11, 2010 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

One thing I've noticed

is that once you come across a type of animal they start showing up in more places

I want to poop at your house - Thingray

by tootthekazoo on Jun 12, 2010 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions  

Use dead-eye and fuck them up then

I took down a 6 pack of wolves in Mexico using dead eye. Piece of cake

I want to poop at your house - Thingray

by tootthekazoo on Jun 12, 2010 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions  

I can't tell if I've grown out of being a addicted to games.

Or if this just has the perfect balance of being just right. Fun to pick up and play for an hour but doesn’t command my attention.

by Scruffy Lefty on Jun 11, 2010 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's why I fell in love with Guitar Hero/Rock Band

Just play for fun until you’re tired, put it down, forget about it until the next time.

But I am liking RDR.

by Kenneth Arthur on Jun 11, 2010 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

How much time did you put into it?

How far into the game were you? Maybe some of the appeal is lost on you since the Wild West and cowboys is more of an American thing, but to each their own I suppose

I want to poop at your house - Thingray

by tootthekazoo on Jun 11, 2010 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

I keep seeing you online, but I'm a bit too engrossed in the single-player game at the moment to break away.

But, if I’d be welcome, at some some point I’d love to join up with some huge LL posse and serve up some frontier justice.

by Chris Hafner on Jun 11, 2010 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions  

I still need to get this game.

I’m Fats McD on XBLive by the way.

"Because 100 luftballoons would be far too many"

by Thingray on Jun 11, 2010 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

I was right.

$10.00 cheaper for a used one at Gamestop. IF it is in stock. Hurry up payday.

"Because 100 luftballoons would be far too many"

by Thingray on Jun 11, 2010 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

Is that your group?

"Because 100 luftballoons would be far too many"

by Thingray on Jun 11, 2010 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

I still have an LL gamer tag on my profile.

"Because 100 luftballoons would be far too many"

by Thingray on Jun 11, 2010 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

Do you have the game?

And is your Xbox working again?

I want to poop at your house - Thingray

by tootthekazoo on Jun 12, 2010 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions  

It's a Rockstar open world game

I don’t see how anyone goes into these games not knowing what they’re getting themselves into anymore.

[DELETED ZOMG NO POLITICS]

by bluemax on Jun 11, 2010 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions  

I am going to buy it tonight!

Yay replacement XBox and end of school!

by Mariner John on Jun 11, 2010 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

I thought it was incredibly boring as well.

Typical RockStar as of late too. Huge, grandiose games that really go nowhere fast.

by Kirk on Jun 12, 2010 11:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

I was going to pick it up this week

but I don’t know if I’m up for yet another sandbox.

by BrianL on Jun 12, 2010 11:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's just so unnecessarily big in my eyes.

I hate games that are like and that and give little to no direction and don’t open up at all until the final part. That has always been my biggest problem with R*. They make their maps boring until the last part opens up and then it gets fun, but unlocking the last section is a chore.

by Kirk on Jun 13, 2010 12:13 AM PDT up reply actions  

If I have a complaint about the game, this would be it

I hate that they don’t fully unlock the maps from the start of the game. At least in RDR it is plausible that the bridges could be out to go north, and that you should avoid Mexico because of the impending revolution. But the GTA games? Sorry, every single bridge in the city is broken! Guess you’ll have to wait until you perform a mindless task that requires you to travel here!

I want to poop at your house - Thingray

by tootthekazoo on Jun 13, 2010 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions  

Ridiculous Elias Rankings:

I can’t believe how much stock the MLB puts into this.

I know that its based on a certain time frame (the last two seasons, right?) and nothing else. But how is Francisco Cervelli a type B, how is Ben Zobrist 2nd amongst ALL AL 1B/OF/DH and Justin Morneau is a type B? Chone has slipped out of type A (a little late for that Chone), Yuni is 13 points ahead of Jack Wilson, Jeff Neimann is type A and teammates David Price and Matt Garza are type B, how are relievers like Dan Wheeler and Darren Oliver type A? No matter how you slice it if the season ended today and you signed Dan Wheeler it would cost you more than signing Justin Morneau (cost you more in draft picks, if they were free agents)

I understand that its a system and maybe thats just how it works, I just don’t understand how anyone can put any stock in it.

by Kenneth Arthur on Jun 11, 2010 8:22 AM PDT reply actions  

It would be cool if there was alternate commentary on baseball games, like there are on DVD's.

So that when the Mariners are getting killed and I’m bored, I can switch over to the Bill and Angie commentary and shake my head at the fact that they are in sports news.

by Kenneth Arthur on Jun 11, 2010 9:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

Boise State joins the Mountain West

That is a pretty solid conference if Utah stays.

by Kenneth Arthur on Jun 11, 2010 11:44 AM PDT reply actions  

I know everyone hates lists and the decade ended 5 months ago...

But SputnikMusic has the top 100 of the decade. Anything you disagree with? i tend to agree with what I’ve heard of being there, though I’ve only heard/own maybe 25% of the albums and am generally not good at evaluating music. I personally don’t like the Mars Volta as much as they do. Just too… weird I guess. Technically great I assume but not my cup of tea.

by Mariner John on Jun 11, 2010 3:14 PM PDT reply actions  

I'm right there with you, except > 25 %

Its a good starting point for me to check out some music I haven’t heard though.

by Kenneth Arthur on Jun 11, 2010 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

Anyway, pretty good list overall, but The Knife's "Silent Shout" was a serious oversight.

Is that the light at the end of the tunnel, or the headlights of an oncoming train?

by Benne on Jun 11, 2010 6:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

I usually take a look at the top ten as a litmus test.

So, Animal Collective everyone’s going to put on there, Arcade Fire everyone is going to put on there AND I DON’T KNOW WHY, I’ve never heard of their number one, and I think anyone who puts The Microphones in the top ten is probably trying too damned hard (I like “The Glow, pt. 2”, but “Mt. Eerie” is probably more interesting as an experience)

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Jun 11, 2010 10:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

Kind of my thinking

I don’t care about Animal Collective or Arcade Fire, but I knew they would be on the list because everybody but me seems to like them. I never even heard of Converge until today. But still, they have enough bands I like (mentioned above) that I can forgive the errors.

Is that the light at the end of the tunnel, or the headlights of an oncoming train?

by Benne on Jun 11, 2010 11:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't get the fuss over Animal Collective either.

I like the love that Brand New and Modest Mouse got though I guess.

by Mariner John on Jun 12, 2010 12:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

I didn't mention it because I think everyone expects me to at this point...

but there was no Okkervil River on their list. Also a bit of a headscratcher was the lack of Magnetic Fields, particularly considering that they’re usually the darlings of the scene, or the Yeah Yeah Yeahs for that matter, or even Cat Power, or TV on the Radio.

I’m mostly just starting to feel as though all of these lists are identical with slight variation depending on how cool the reviewer is trying to seem. Reading through them, I feel as if the critical narrative for the indie music scene is dominated by music majors who were all trained in the same thing. There’s pretty much only one critic I even bother to pay attention to at this point.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Jun 12, 2010 12:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

If I ever made a "Best of the 00's" List.....

It would be dominated by Nightwish, Kamelot, After Forever, The Birthday Massacre and Opeth.

I can appreciate some “indie music” things like Interpol, but honestly, most of that shit bores me to tears. Give me some good guitar riffs, a good voice, some non-retarded lyrics, and a little keyboard background, and I’ll be satisfied.

Is that the light at the end of the tunnel, or the headlights of an oncoming train?

by Benne on Jun 12, 2010 1:34 AM PDT up reply actions  

You really are a glutton for punishment.

"I might be a butt hoarder...speed skating butts that is." - wazzu93

by kevin_ess on Jun 12, 2010 3:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

In light of the World Cup...

I offer this.

"I might be a butt hoarder...speed skating butts that is." - wazzu93

by kevin_ess on Jun 12, 2010 3:52 AM PDT reply actions  

For PS3 owners:

Go to the PS Store and download Flower. Like, right now. I can’t recommend it highly enough.

Is that the light at the end of the tunnel, or the headlights of an oncoming train?

by Benne on Jun 12, 2010 11:18 PM PDT reply actions  

It's game that's impossible to lose at and yet I saw a friend of a friend do his damndest.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Jun 13, 2010 12:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

Ugh.

The game is so idiot-proof you can forget about conventional gaming 5 seconds in and just let yourself be sucked into the atmosphere. This is the game I plan on using as ammo for the whole “video games can be art” debate.

Is that the light at the end of the tunnel, or the headlights of an oncoming train?

by Benne on Jun 13, 2010 12:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

That post wasn't really directed at your friend's friend...

….or to anyone in particular, really. I’m just drunk and rambling. Point is, Flower was a powerful experience on me. It’s so short—you can beat it in 90 minutes, tops—but so immersing I can play it again and again.

Is that the light at the end of the tunnel, or the headlights of an oncoming train?

by Benne on Jun 13, 2010 12:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

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