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Around SBN: The Most Dangerous Division in Sports

23-35, Chart

6_8wec_medium

Biggest Contribution: Franklin Gutierrez, +5.5%
Biggest Suckfest: Felix Hernandez, -13.1%
Most Important AB: Johnson single, +8.6%
Most Important Pitch: Hamilton double, -13.8%
Total Contribution by Pitcher(s): -12.3%
Total Contribution by Lineup: -43.3%
Total Contribution by Opposition: +5.6%
(What is this chart?)

Comment 153 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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Is there someplace lower on the chart than the Tropic of Cairo?

Because I think I found it. The declare this to be the Isthmus of Vidro.

Karma police, arrest this man.

by wyte_lightning on Jun 8, 2010 8:17 PM PDT reply actions   3 recs

So interesting story.

My lady is having a baby and so playing the role of excited future father I started looking up names for my future boy (I hope). Anyways I was looking through the “C” names and I ran across Cairo…and the meaning of Cairo is “Victorious”.

I do not kid.

by Mariner Melee on Jun 8, 2010 10:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

in fairness

if I were a Mariners hitter and I saw Felix doing so poorly, I would automatically think “I’ll not suck later since we all suck today.”

A true friend stabs you in the front - Oscar Wilde

by dantheman3k on Jun 8, 2010 8:26 PM PDT reply actions  

What the fuck Felix.

YOU ARE BETTER THAN THIS

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work... I want to achieve it through not dying.

by the other side on Jun 8, 2010 8:41 PM PDT reply actions  

BOO

I think we all as fans need to “Boo” a little more often. If the Yankees players make “bone head plays” or the manager does not execute from the bench they hear it from the fans. The fans pay the tickets and buy the merchandise, I think we deserve more. If we stay quite they will continue to make poor decisions and still rake in the revenue because in their minds we are happy with Mediocrity. I say next home stand we let them know what we think, what else can we do….. I mean am a season ticket holder, I invested in the team expecting good returns. Unlike the stock market I can’t sell my stock when the upper management sinks the company!

by wakeupcall on Jun 8, 2010 8:48 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

I would put my John Hancock at the bottom of that.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work... I want to achieve it through not dying.

by the other side on Jun 8, 2010 8:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

So if you are aware of it then check it.

I get the frustration, I really do, but this reads like people blaming Ichiro for 2008.

by Aaron Campeau on Jun 8, 2010 10:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

Wait, what?

People who are frustrated watching Felix this season aren’t being irrational.

His xFIP being only slightly different notwithstanding, he’s showing signs of reverting back to Dumb Felix, and that does not bode well for his future.

by Jeff Nye on Jun 8, 2010 10:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

I know.

This was an overreaction on my part, and I apologize. I get frustrated with Felix as well, but he’s still a damned good player and I think there are plenty of other places to focus the blame.

But with that said, I shouldn’t have been so rash. Mea culpa.

by Aaron Campeau on Jun 8, 2010 10:24 PM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

Yes, and with the imminent Lee trade our system will get another boost. Either that or we'll get two

juicy picks in addition to what seems like a surefire Top 5 or Top 10 pick of our own. Next year’s draft is apparently going to be one of the better ones in recent history, so those picks will be very nice.

By this time next year our farm system should start to look pretty damn good and we can start to see the light at the end of this shitty tunnel we’ve been stuck in for 9 years…

by Rudy4three on Jun 8, 2010 9:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

I worry that if we wind up with the bonus picks

we’ll pass on the best available talent because of fears about big money signing bonuses. So we’ll wind up with pretty much the same talent we would normally draft, but just be drafting them way ahead of where they ought to be picked.

by johnbai on Jun 8, 2010 11:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

Let me just add that today really sucked..

Seattle radio all day pretty much had guest after guest talk about how shitty our clubhouse has become and how Wak isn’t taken seriously. Then we get to watch our King get his brains knocked in, while we act like clowns on the basepaths.

Tinsley and Johnson looking at each other like “What the fuck” as Rob walked to the dugout pretty much sums up this season. I’ve never seen a team with such issues in regards to third base coaching.

by Rudy4three on Jun 8, 2010 9:38 PM PDT reply actions  

Didn't listen to any radio today - was it really that bad?

I feel kind of bad for Wak, but he’s made a whole lot of bonehead decisions, and while it certainly isn’t the sole reason we’re in such a shitty position, it has most definitely contributed.

My Mariners blog SodoMojo, My Twitter Feed

by Griffin Cooper on Jun 8, 2010 9:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

It was pretty terrible.

On 710 at least, I can’t speak for any other stations.

Karma police, arrest this man.

by wyte_lightning on Jun 8, 2010 9:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

However, if your examples of players speaking out = losing your clubhouse are...

Ian Snell (shall I give you the links of times over the last 5 years that Snell has shot his mouth off post-game? It doesn’t seem to indicate anything about the manager and all about Snell) and a very frustrated Figgins, who is experiencing losing for the first time under the only manager he has had other than Mike Scioscia?

I’m sure there is tension, I’m sure there is some eye-rolling, but I think I need an example other than this pair

by msb on Jun 8, 2010 10:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

I feel bad for Wak too

I so badly want to love him as a manager that I actually do despite what might be rational- I can’t even imagine him being fired, but I feel like that’s not too far away.

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by Corco on Jun 8, 2010 9:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

No one's gonna replace him and do better.

These players got the team in this position As much as I hate the DH fiasco and Rob Johnson the primary issues are that the players have put in dogshit performances this year. Last year they played well and Wak looked like a genius. This year they’re playing like crap and he looks like an idiot.

by TheBishop on Jun 8, 2010 10:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

Exactly.

Shannon Drayer was going off tonight and talked about how Wak has not been the greatest but the players are the one who have turned in such poor performances. Once again, further proof that winning leads to chemistry, not the other way around.

by Hopefulmsfan on Jun 8, 2010 10:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think we'd all love Wak to be our guy.

But my god the poor calls, the horrid baserunning, the massive across the board under achieving… I know management thought this was our guy but it’s time to start this season over while we still have a legit shot. He isn’t improving.

Seriously, are we up to 100 baserunning errors yet?

by Great Sergios Ghost on Jun 8, 2010 10:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

Does not allow Rob Johnson onto them.

Although in his defense Rob usually does a pretty good job of that by himself.

by TheBishop on Jun 8, 2010 10:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

Pick better coaches. Better teaching. Punishment for continual failure on the basepaths.

I actually think things like baserunning has a lot to do with the manager and his staff.

by Rudy4three on Jun 8, 2010 10:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

What recourse does he have?

sitting the baserunner? then who does he play?

by msb on Jun 8, 2010 10:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

He's a manager. The players are supposed to follow the plan he sets out.

You can easily say that player A should be responsible for his own baserunning and his own attention level.

I agree with that, but I also think the manager is somewhat to blame when there are constant mistakes like that being made. If numerous players aren’t giving their maximum attention/focus to an area of the game, I put some of that on the manager.

by Rudy4three on Jun 8, 2010 10:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

Most dudes

regardless of station in life, have similar brains. And similar brains respond to punishment similarly.

by johnbai on Jun 8, 2010 11:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

Let me rephrase:

The kind of punishment that Wak has at his disposal strikes me as either non sufficient or non suitable for producing better performance out of his players. Maybe for someone like Saunders or Josh Wilson but not for the team as a whole.

by TheBishop on Jun 9, 2010 12:05 AM PDT up reply actions  

I agree that it has to do a lot with his staff

I’m just not sure how much input the manager has in terms of picking his staff, or if he can do much else besides choose who can or can’t play. I could be wrong though

by bomdal on Jun 8, 2010 10:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, the manager's job is simply to put the players in position to win, get them motivated to

perform, and to help them maximize their potential.

I see very little success in any of these areas with this year’s team.

Same stupid mistakes are being made day in and day out. They obviously aren’t motivated given the reports that some of them are pretty much blowing off what Wak has to say.

He’s not doing his job well this season, and while you can argue that the players are to blame, he’s the one responsible for getting the most out of these guys.

by Rudy4three on Jun 8, 2010 10:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'd say we'd be closer to playing to our true talent level if Torre was the manager.

I don’t think Wak has done much right this season.

As anti-sabermetrics as it sounds, the best managers due make some difference just in setting a tone and creating an environment where players more often than not play to their potential.

I think we’d be a couple games under .500 with a top tier manager.

by Rudy4three on Jun 8, 2010 10:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

Perhaps a different manager eeks out 3 other wins from different pitching decisions.

I mean there has been a ridiculous amount of walkoffs. But a couple over .500? Thats like 8 wins.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work... I want to achieve it through not dying.

by the other side on Jun 8, 2010 10:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

I refuse to believe that Wak is one of the worst managers in baseball history

which, if he were, would put him as something in the neighborhood of -2-3 wins.

by Aaron Campeau on Jun 8, 2010 10:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

No not at all.

I said 3 purely because the completely ridiculous amount of close games that in a normal season go our way half of the time. Has Wak actually cost us 3 wins? Don’t think so.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work... I want to achieve it through not dying.

by the other side on Jun 8, 2010 10:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

I didn't give you an exact number and Im not saying Torre would have

this team .500 or better. I know there are a lot of bad players on this team.

I just don’t think Wak has gotten anything out of this team whatsoever. They are 12 games under and that is unacceptable given that this team’s personnel isn’t horrible.

He deserves some blame for that and based on the buzz from all these beat reporters, he’s not doing a good job communicating with players or establishing an environment where guys are playing to their potential.

by Rudy4three on Jun 8, 2010 10:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

Players playing below their potential isn't the manager's fault.

You can put the bad bullpen usage and baserunning on him fairly; but he can’t exactly tell Kotchman to stop grounding out, etc.

Coaching can only do so much, and it’s really a pretty small effect. The rest is up to the players.

by Jeff Nye on Jun 8, 2010 10:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

We will never know if this teams under performance is Wak's fault or not.

In my personal opinion it’s not.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work... I want to achieve it through not dying.

by the other side on Jun 8, 2010 10:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't want to be too hard on Wak, because I blame the players

and the GM moreso than him. I don’t think some of these guys we took gambles on have been worth a damn, and that’s more Z’s fault than Wak’s.

However, 12 games under, is 12 games under and I can’t sit here and say Wak is doing a good job. Too many players have performed below expectations (reasonable ones at that), the focus appears to be lacking, communication doesn’t appear strong (Figgins, Griffey, Snell, etc), and I don’t think the team’s overall results could be any worse 1/3 of the way through this season.

So while I don’t think Wak is holding this team back from being AL West champs, I have a hard time saying that he’s doing a good job.

by Rudy4three on Jun 8, 2010 10:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

Fair enough.

Z was forced to take some gambles in both 09 and 10. It worked brilliantly in 09. Not so much this year. I still very much like the overall direction of this organization. Despite the losses I see an overall upward trend and some good years to come.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work... I want to achieve it through not dying.

by the other side on Jun 8, 2010 10:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

Same here. Jack has done a great job overall.

He just inherited a bad farm system and a pretty crappy big league roster.

In a couple of years things should be much better.

by Rudy4three on Jun 8, 2010 10:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

I agree they can make a difference.

But Wak was hailed as a savant last year and everyone agreed that the team overachieved. This year they suck and he’s getting flogged. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

by TheBishop on Jun 8, 2010 10:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

Horseapples.

The good ones are lucky enough to have guys that want to compete.

by Aaron Campeau on Jun 8, 2010 10:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

Why is this so?

I see him and think of what might have been.

by TheBishop on Jun 8, 2010 10:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

I know. I really enjoyed watching him tonight.

But I can’t help having the thrill somewhat muted by the pain of knowing he was so close to being ours.

by TheBishop on Jun 8, 2010 10:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yep, I have finally gotten past the what could have been and thoroughly enjoyed a masterful pitching performance.

Any baseball fan should be able to appreciate what they saw today.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work... I want to achieve it through not dying.

by the other side on Jun 8, 2010 10:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yes. That is exactly why I love pitching duels.

Nothing better than watching an exciting, dominant, fast working pitcher. You, I’m looking at you Felix.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work... I want to achieve it through not dying.

by the other side on Jun 8, 2010 11:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

I feel bad for Felix because with normal run support and a decent bullpen

he would have racked up more Ws early on, so the occasional bad game or two would just be part of the ordinary ebb and flow. Although baseball is a team game there are a lot of individual statistics which every sees.

If Felix’s ERA was down but his W-L was good this helps get into the All-Star game, get votes for Cy Young, etc.

Cliff Lee could probably have won all of his starts this year sans the one in which he gave up 8 runs and got a W. Doug Fister is 3-3 but the bullpen blew at least 2 games which looked like sure wins. And so on.

If Felix gives up 5 runs I want the team to score 7. I don’t like to see Felix endure watching 2 guys on no outs and then some insane inning-killing attempted double-steal when the opposing pitcher was in the process of walking the world.

Very bad for a pitcher’s morale.

ignacio

by ignacio on Jun 8, 2010 11:50 PM PDT reply actions  

Johnson, you're cut.

Tui, you’re cut.
Alfonzo, you’re amusing.
Carp…what the hell are you doing here? I thought you were cut.
Figgins…you ought to be be cut.
Milton, you are lovely but are crazy and suck and may well be cut.
Loafie, you’re infuriating and cut.
Aardsma, you’re cut.
Cordero, you’re inspiring and heartwarming and so, so cut.
Luke French, you’re Luke French.
Felix, you ought to be ashamed >:(
Shawn Kelley, I love you, but you’re cut.
Fister, you should suck but somehow don’t. Yet you are hurt >:(
Garrett Olsen…hmmm…Garrett Olsen…..
Hyphen, you are awesome but are also the worst pitcher in baseball.
Ian Snell, we really had something going, but you turned out to be crazy and super-high maintenance. It’s not working.
Sean White, you may die.
Jack Wilson, you may retire.
Brandon League, you may remember that you had the best pitch in baseball last year.

Ichiro, you may stay.
Saunders, you may stay.
Langersex, you may stay.
Ichiro, you may stay.
Josh Wilson – what the hell, you can stay.
Vargas, you may stay.
Erik Bedard, you will be RC’s loveslave until you are healed, so you may stay.
Cliff Lee, I will pleasure you every day (and skype-sex you when I am overseas) if that is what it takes to get you to stay.

by Decatur on Jun 9, 2010 12:50 AM PDT reply actions   2 recs

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