You Would Want...
by Matthew on Jun 21, 2010 3:19 PM PDT
in Seattle Mariners Polling
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I voted for winning, mostly because we don't really have all that many unknown quantities
And the ones that we do have, playing them isn’t detrimental to the team winning games.
This is exactly how I felt.
Most of the people that will be here in 2011 we’re playing now ie; Saunders, Figgins, Guti etc. I think winning would do more good than anything else right now.
by Hopefulmsfan on Jun 21, 2010 5:05 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm torn.. I obviously want to win but I also know that it would take a miracle to get anywhere this season
I voted play as many 2011 players as possible, but I thought about it for awhile.
by seattlesundevil on Jun 21, 2010 3:30 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I picked 2011 players.
Starting with Figgins and Lopez swapping positions to see if that changes anything, both offensively and defensively.
Winning would be awesome, but it is going to take a whole lot of winning to get me back on board.
Personally I don't think you make the move until after Lopez goes away
(or in a less likely scenario, Figgins goes away)
There’s just not a lot of value to bouncing them from position to position like that, and it’s not impossible that Lopez’s trade value is higher as a second baseman, as counter-intuitive as that might be.
I picked draft picks because DRAFT PICKS.
But I would really like to see what we can figure out about our roster in the meantime. It’s just that this mostly entails playing Saunders on a regular basis, and Moore when he gets back. Carp, I don’t care much for, and what pitchers we have that are near ready are already up. I’m not quite ready to bring Pineda up considering how few innings he threw last year.
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors
by JY on Jun 21, 2010 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions
We know what Carp is, I think, and what that is is "nothing special".
That illustrates exactly what I was talking about above. Playing Saunders and Moore every day when they’re available has almost no chance of making the team worse, and a pretty good chance of making the team better.
So evaluating and winning aren’t mutually exclusive.
Bringing up Pineda is somewhat intriguing, though.
I just don't want to push it with him.
You look at his innings pitched for career and you see 20, 59, 138.1, 47.1….
I’m not on the wagon of “ALL PITCHERS THAT INCREASE THEIR IP BY X% WILL HAVE THEIR ARMS FALL OFF”, but there’s a certain level that is reasonable and I prefer not to cross it.
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors
by JY on Jun 21, 2010 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions
I'd be fine with bringing him up after a start or two in Tacoma, depending on his results.
If he doesn’t look like he has a lot to learn there, bring him up and just keep him on a careful pitch count.
He reportedly still needs to work on his change and slider.
The cutter seems to be keeping left-handers honest though.
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors
by JY on Jun 21, 2010 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't see why he couldn't work on those at the major league level, though.
And honestly, I don’t see next year being so much better than this year, unless there’s a lot of roster change. So why not give it a try, and then shut him down in September if he starts showing signs of fatigue?
Confidence.
You don’t want to bring up a kid too early and have his confidence destroyed by getting lit up by major league
level hitting. Let him continue to develop, maybe make a start in September, but nothing else than that.
by Fuzz on Jun 21, 2010 4:49 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Eh, I'm not convinced that Pineda would get "lit up" by major league hitters at this point.
Nor do I know enough about his psyche to know if that’d particularly bother him.
Like I said, see how he does in Tacoma; but if he seems ready move him up, don’t create some arbitrary reason to hold him back.
Agreed.
If it doesn’t look like he needs more AAA time, we shouldn’t force it on him just to satisfy convention. The more time he spends getting used to ML hitters, the better it will be for the team in 2011. Plus, as a fan, I would rather see unproven but potentially dominating (Pineda) than mediocre at best (hyphen).
by Jon S. on Jun 21, 2010 5:06 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
This raises a question I've been wondering about
How much time do pitchers in the show get to work on their stuff vs in the minors? Is there significantly more time spent scouting your next start/rehabbing your previous start vs working on pitches in the majors?
The worry I’d have with bringing him up while his other pitches need work, is that he would probably not be as free to throw his in-progress pitches in game situations (unless the team really has given up on winning), and I’d rather have him getting dinged up a bit in Tacoma while throwing a higher percentage of “bad” pitches, than being a bit better in the bigs just throwing his known stuff. Or is that an unjustified worry?
You can't be a catcher if you can't catch. Rob Johnson will henceforth be listed as a traffic cone on the roster.
Counterpoint
Pitchers can develop bad habits by trying to cheat on bad hitters with techniques that won’t cut it at the higher levels.
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors
by JY on Jun 21, 2010 7:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Well, when does the education happen?
How are players supposed to get better?
(This is a serious question. I guess I’m just perplexed looking back at my favorite Mariner inverting the standard age/talent curve and devolving in the big leagues.)
I'm genuinely curious, not trying to start an argument
Seems like a lot of guys get to the big leagues and realize their secondary stuff can’t cut it and just revert to tossing heat. I seem to recall Felix doing something like that when he first got up. There’s also Mr Fastball behind the plate, I can’t imagine whoever is catching in Tacoma calls more fastballs than Johnson.
You can't be a catcher if you can't catch. Rob Johnson will henceforth be listed as a traffic cone on the roster.
And they have been keeping nearly everyone to very strict pitch counts all season.
The exceptions being random mid-20s arms either in the org or signed as minor league FAs.
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors
by JY on Jun 21, 2010 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Picked the second option but the first option wasn't far behind.
I want to see the team evaluate for next season. At the same time I want to see the 2010 Mariners win games so that they can build off of it next year. This team was supposed to be better than it’s current record so I would like to see them not look like a crappy baseball team.
Whichever option nets us multiple seasons of Cliff Lee
by Poochie on Jun 21, 2010 3:35 PM PDT reply actions 4 recs
D) Turn Nintendo into a wildly profitable company.
Hey, wait a second…
I think you may end up killing yourself before all this is through.
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors
by JY on Jun 21, 2010 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm there, too.
I almost don’t want us to trade him, just so I can watch him more in an M’s uniform this season.
I’m trying to decide if I would take a team that loses a couple more games a year if it had Cliff Lee on it, because he’s so fun to watch.
Charter Member: Dave Sims Sweet Hat Club // Batting 2-for-4 with 1 SB, 1 R, 2 RBI for Rocky Diablos, PSSBL
by Two Rs and Two Ls on Jun 21, 2010 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Intellectually, I know that getting a look at prospects makes sense given how this seasons gone.
But damn, its hard watching shitty baseball. And there’s been a lot of shitty baseball in the last five years.
Hard work never killed nobody, but I won't take my chances.
Losing games for draft picks is so goddamned retarded
Its one thing if the calendar reads September your team is in last place and Strasburg is in the next draft. But in June? Come one now.
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Jun 21, 2010 3:40 PM PDT reply actions
Losing games isn't a strategy at all. Losing games sucks. Play to win, but play for 2011
if that’s all that is in front of you. 2010 appears to be dead. The fan base might be more interested in seeing next years goods than this years losers, even without wins this year.
by TrustBaseball on Jun 21, 2010 11:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Losing for draft picks is really a multi-year strategy.
Because in the meantime you lose your fanbase and payroll. The Mariners should try to win as much as possible.
Win!
Not just because winning is fun.
If we can scrape back somewhere, anywhere close to .500 ball—hell, I’d be grateful for 74 – 88—I’d have an easier time watching, but maybe it’ll be a little easier to woo mid-level free agents here. Because we’ll have to find some cheapies but goodies for next year, right? We don’t have enough kids to fill out an acceptable team for next year.
Totally possible
But it can’t hurt, right? Maybe I just like winning and am trying to justify clicking this option instead of the “draft picks” option.
Anthony Rendon finished the year .394/.530/.801.
I want him.
by Manzanillos Cup on Jun 21, 2010 3:51 PM PDT reply actions
I'd settle for Garret Cole because I don't see us overtaking the Orioles.
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors
by JY on Jun 21, 2010 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions
Gerrit, sorry.
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors
by JY on Jun 21, 2010 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions
I'd settle for Gerrit Cole because hey, awesome!
not sure how much you follow NCAA baseball, but is Trevor Bauer any kind of prospect as well?
by seattlebruin on Jun 21, 2010 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't know?
I’ve heard the name but I don’t generally pay all that much attention to NCAA ball. Not since Lincecum at least.
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors
by JY on Jun 21, 2010 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions
i Picked win
Because no matter how bad we suck the undying fan in me likes to watch the team win.
Yep
Even though they have no chance at anything good, I still watch them on a regular basis and scream and cheer every time they do something stupid or awesome.
We're sick people.... kinds of like drug addicts.
The law of diminishing returns applies, it is far more painful then fun, yet we keep coming back for more!
It's okay. Baseball is a wonderful game. As soon as the season is pointless the point remains:
Baseball.
That is very true
But watching the bullpen blow several great starts by Vargas et al not to long ago I nearly jumped off a bridge.
I'd like to win as many games as possible using players that will help us in the future.
...and now I'm here
The paying subscribers to LL Plus have access to the secret poll options
by seattlebruin on Jun 21, 2010 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
I should subscribe, I was really hoping for an "all of the above" option.
Dissenting opinions are welcome, and should be encouraged, at Lookout Landing. -LL Style Guide
I am in total agreement with this. Win, but figure out 2011 and 2012 while you're doing it.
Winning isn’t going to mean much this year.
by TrustBaseball on Jun 21, 2010 11:35 PM PDT up reply actions
They should attempt to win after they trade Cliff Lee
Exactly who are we talking about for 2011? Isn’t Michael Saunders already playing? Is there a surplus of big league stars waiting their turns in Tacoma?
My "ultimate goal" is always playoffs.
So I voted for that. I think a realistic, tempered option—not ideal, as the poll was clearly asking for—is seeing 2011 players.
Honestly, both definitive options (winning vs. losing as much as possible), have upsides as well as downsides
Which is why I voted for 2011 players. I just hope I can find a bright side to whatever does happen.
My Mariners blog SodoMojo, My Twitter Feed
That was a tough question
I honestly alternated between between all three in my head before finally settling on winning. You can’t lose with winning (get it).
Also, it seems to me that B and C aren’t mutually exclusive…we can lose a ton of games and still play a bunch of ’11 players.
If enough people vote win, I'll stop watching the Mariners.
Because they play much better when I’m not watching.
In the kingdome...
It always seemed that they hit a Home Run when I went to use the urinal trough… so near the end I would drink a lot of water and try to go every inning, hoping that they would succeed without me watching.
by ambrosia2112 on Jun 21, 2010 5:23 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm surprised no one has pointed out that this winning streak occured when Jeff got busy
Although I think a tougher choice than this poll would be choosing between the Mariners winning and Jeff’s game notes. Mariners baseball just doesn’t feel right without LookoutLanding posts.
by Snuffleupagus on Jun 21, 2010 7:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Who are these 2011 players?
I’d be much more inclined to vote B if they were at all interesting.
I voted "play as many 2011 players as possible"
I think it’s the option that would make me the most interested in the remaining games this year. I would also hope that this will include at least one player we aquire in a Lee trade.
by Mind of no mind on Jun 21, 2010 5:15 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
"possible"
Ambiguous question allows me to take the easy way out. Since it is entirely possible to win any game independent of all other games, it therefore is possble to win all 93 remaining games in the regular season, and all playoff games thereafter. I therefore vote we win as many more games “as possible”—104, to be precise—thereby catapulting us into the postseason, sweeping every playoff series, bringing home the first World Series championship in franchise history, and obliterating innumerable records along the way. Maybe we could sign Griff back to a 1-day contract for our series-clinching World Series game 4, just to get the man the ring he deserves.
by dlukas on Jun 21, 2010 5:28 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
I picked win
As said above, there’s just not much in the way of talent to promote, but more importantly I think the fans are pissed at the Mariners and can’t take much more shitty baseball. Um, myself included. Since 2003 I count 04-06, 08, and now 10 as garbage seasons, which makes 5 out of 7.
Anything that gets people to stop saying “Mariners suck” every single time baseball comes up at my favorite bar, I’m in favor of.
Mariners fans have had far more shitty seasons than non shitty ones since 1977
Pretty sure the fans will keep coming around. Even in their smaller numbers.
I picked 2011
Because I think it and C are pretty much the same, and I prefer both to A. Playing Carp and Saunders and Moore will probably hurt the team in 2010, but help the team moving forward.
We aren’t going to contend this year, so do everything you can to get ready for 2011 and beyond.
Actually I disagree.
I think playing Saunders and Moore would actually help us win than having say Bradley in left and Sweeney DHing.
by Hopefulmsfan on Jun 21, 2010 9:36 PM PDT up reply actions
I voted for 2011 because I think we don't know. Play Saunders and Moore and Bradley can
DH, let’s see what that gets us. Sweeney is not in the 2011 picture at all. Anything we get in the Lee trade, 1B, SS, C has got to be in mix also. Let’s work this to our advantage so we know what we might need this winter.
by TrustBaseball on Jun 21, 2010 11:42 PM PDT up reply actions
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