An Interview With Jim Pagliaroni

The following interview, sent along to me by Arne Christensen, serves as a follow-up to the April interview with Steve Cox, owner of Velocity Studios, which recently released its documentary on the Seattle Pilots entitled The Seattle Pilots: Short Flight Into History. The interview is between Cox and Jim Pagliaroni, a catcher who was traded to the Pilots in May of 1969.

Steve Cox: What was it like, kind of joining the Pilots in the middle of the season?

Jim Pagliaroni: It's like anything else. You're joining a new ball club, you gotta get acclimated. A lot of the guys I've known I got to know while I was playing 10 years in the big leagues. So it was pretty easy doing the job and integrating with them and actually a great bunch of guys. Great spirit. Understand that this was a first-year team that was a collection of young guys and older guys. Tommy Harper I believe. Joe Schultz was the manager who was an absolute joy to be around. It was real easy as far as I was concerned. I didn't, obviously I wasn't thrilled about leaving the A's, but being towards the end of my career. I knew that was an issue because I'd had two cervical discs removed from my neck and back in the winter of 1967 because of a major collision I'd had at home plate that ruptured a couple discs. So they took those out.

I came back and I was fine, but I lost velocity in throwing, which really cost me maybe 15% of my throwing ability. Well, if you look at my catching career, I led the National League one year in defense. Double plays 16, which is strike out - throw out. So I really had a great arm then, but to have that happen, it really affected that part of my game. I did hit with some power, which was fine. It was a strategic move on the A's part because they had a young ball club as we all know ended up doing what they did, which was great. That's how I ended up at Seattle. I really enjoyed the time there, enjoyed the team, enjoyed the management.

SC: What did you think of Sicks' Stadium?

JP: Sicks' Stadium, which was interesting, when I played in the Coast League, when I played for the Vancouver Mounties and the Spokane Indians, we went into Sicks' Stadium. It was familiar and of course what I like about it, it had the short porch in left field. For a right-handed hitter it was great. But Seattle's such a beautiful area. I love it and over the years after baseball, I worked in part of that area for business and traveling the western United States. So, Sicks' Stadium I really enjoyed.

SC: What was it like playing there? What was the atmosphere like?

JP: Actually, the crowds were very upbeat. They were so enthused about having a major league ball club. The park was pretty much full all the time or at least from what I remember it to be. So the attitude and spirit of the crowds were just great for the ball player. I played some positions while I was with Seattle that scared me to death. They put me on first base one night, they put me in right field another night and here I've caught all my life. I was absolutely petrified. But Joe says, well I could use your bat in the lineup so, there you are. I had no clue, no clue, but it worked. It was an absolute joy.

SC: I heard people say that Sicks' was kind of a minor league park but it had the best playing surface. Some people said it was the best playing surface in the league.

JP: It was great, immaculately groomed all the time. Yes, that was accurate...as far as the actual physical field, it was wonderful.

SC: When you were playing there, did you ever get the feeling that the team might be in trouble? Maybe that the team might not last in Seattle?

JP: What's interesting about that is Jim Bouton was there and Jim's a very astute individual not only about life but also business. My background in the big leagues is I was a player's representative for pension negotiations for five years for the Pittsburgh Pirates - worked directly with Marvin Miller on pension negotiations with the owners. So I had some experience in business accumulated, and then of course I had my businesses outside that. So whether you like it or not you're in tune to what's going on and you hear certain things. It was always an issue of funding. It was always, are they well capitalized? And it seemed to be an issue and of course as we all know, that ended up being the issue that transferred the franchise to Milwaukee.

SC: Let's go back to something. You talked about how you really liked Joe Schultz. Tell me a little more about him. I've been told that he was kind of a players' manager. In other words, he got along well with the players and was good at motivating the guys, but he wasn't as good as a tactical manager.

JP: That could be true because some managers have a tendency to leave pitchers in too long or not long enough. That's for conjecture of course. Being a new team and just by the nature of not being built up as an organization, we didn't win a lot of games. However for the material he had I thought he did very well. I'm very funny about strategic moves. I think everybody makes the basic moves properly as a manager. I think those are magnified when you're fighting for position, at the top, even become more under the microscope. I really never had any real issues that jump out in my mind about Joe, other than the fact that maybe he didn't have a deep pitching staff. So, he was doing the best he could to juggle starters, middle-relievers, stoppers or whatever. It was a tough job, at best.

I enjoyed Joe. He had a great spirit. You love the guy because you know, (I don't know if people knew this), but he worked for years at St. Louis as a St. Louis Cardinals coach and of course one of the things we found out is he owned a lot of Anheuser-Busch stock. So, after the game, the coolers were full of Anheuser-Busch beer. Whether we'd win or lose he'd come in, "Hey nice goin' guys. Great. Nice try." If we lost, "We'll get 'em tomorrow. Pound that Budweiser into ya." So you know, he tickled you. I enjoyed Joe.

Good managers give people the tools to become better. To me that's what management and business in the real world's all about. Joe had a tendency to do that. He had a tendency to elevate your spirit, which I think a lot of times is that a placebo effect is better than a lot of other types of motivation. Especially if it's constructive in the bad side. In other words, it's real easy to admonish somebody for making an error. Mental or physical. I think there's a timing in order to do that. I was very fortunate in playing for some great managers. Danny Murtaugh, Pittsburgh Pirates. Hank Bauer at the A's. Bob Kennedy with the A's. I got to watch them, how they handled people in special situations. As I moved on into my private life, I even became more appreciative of the correct way to manage people. It's really to understand who they are, what they are and what their personal feelings are all about. Take somebody like Joe Torre - marvelous. And there's many managers like that, my personal feeling.

SC: What did you think when you heard that the team moved?

JP: I thought it was great for the American League and obviously from the National League going from where they were at Sicks' Stadium in the first year as the Pilots and then going into Milwaukee. I'd played against the Milwaukee Braves when they were in Milwaukee as well as when they moved to Atlanta. In fact we played the Milwaukee Braves the opening night in Atlanta. It was marvelous. I got to see the down-side of Milwaukee losing its team that they supported forever and then here they go, they get the team back. Which I thought was a great move on behalf of Major League Baseball.

SC: Do you look back on your time with the Pilots fondly? Or do you see that as just kind of a pit-stop on the road?

JP: I never looked at anything as a pit-stop because you've been blessed by God to play a sport that you dearly loved as a child. You got to do it. So if you come away with any resentment, shame on you. I came away with a lot of gratitude and I always knew that no matter where I was, I was going to gain something by it. Again, the spirit of the athlete, even though they collectively know that they're not going to make a challenge for first place, they really want to be respectable, it's a matter of pride. In that, there was a great spirit, in that you join the Gene Brabenders of the world and the Tommy Harpers of the world and we had a great time, doing the very best we could, with what he had.

SC: Did you read Ball Four when it came out?

JP: Yes. Yes I did.

SC: What did you think of it?

JP: I thought, from a very academic standpoint, I thought Jim was extremely accurate. I think he was extremely personally emotional about his feelings towards the people he was talking about, the Mickey Mantles of the world and his issues. Jim was a very savvy individual, politically and business-wise. He was right on the money because I was involved in pension negotiations so he was right on the money in all aspects and how he spun it as a business. Obviously that wasn't the theme of the book, but his portrayal of the business side of the game was absolutely accurate. Most of his stories - that I know of - were absolutely right on the money. He spun it really right and it was hilarious. I thought he did a great job.