On the Galarraga Perfect Game*
by Matthew on Jun 2, 2010 6:01 PM PDT
in Miscellaneous
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PrintI'm giving it it's own thread to keep comments out of the other threads.
I was rooting for him to throw it because it would have been interesting. However, I think I like the ultimate outcome even better. I have no vested interest in Armando Galarraga actually throwing a perfect game other than wanting Dallas Braden to look less impressive.
I do have a vested interest in umpires getting more calls right. If that means more use of instant replay, I am all for it. This ending can only help generate interest in expanding the use of instant replay in baseball. This is one of the few instances when I am hoping for the media outrage machine to go into overdrive.
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I completely agree
Although, I do really feel bad for Armando Galarraga, and even Tigers fans. If that shit happened to Felix, for instance, I would be going absolutely nuts.
My Mariners blog SodoMojo, My Twitter Feed
Seriously
If I had been at that game, I’d have been livid. You go to games your entire life hoping to see something like a perfect game, and to have it taken away on such a blatantly wrong call, well, I’d sure want SOMETHING to come of it
I'd rather know a little about a lot than a lot about a little
I hate how the guys on MLB Network keep saying Joyce "may" have missed the call.
As if there’s any doubt.
We got Pravda.
And now TASS.
Great point, Matthew.
I totally agree. I imagine they’ll be going on and on about the call on SportsCenter and Baseball Tonight.
Karma police, arrest this man.
Fucking terrible.
I feel sick and I am not even a Tiger fan, but rather a fan of the game. God that was bad.
What a fucking crime.
No, I too have no interest in this other than a passing fascinating with history making, and that run and catch that Austin Jackson made was well done, but all of that matters for absolute shit because Jim Joyce blew a call.
My God. Someone PLEASE FORCE INSTANT REPLAY IN THIS SPORT or ROBOTS!
Fans are typically idiots.
by The Typical Idiot Fan on Jun 2, 2010 6:05 PM PDT reply actions
It will be a huge arguement for IR.
No way this doesn’t strike up a huge arguement for instant replay. And what a play by Jackson.
I know. I just wanted to overreact.
Fuck the Angels
Yes, he is.
saw him punch an infant once.
by PLU Tim on Jun 2, 2010 6:29 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
You can not be sure he is not an assbag
Nor can we be sure that he is one.
Can the Tigers protest the game?
Is there any recourse for them, and does the commish have the power to overturn that call?
No
You can only protest the game, I believe if it is a misinterpretation of the rules that impacts the outcome of the game.
It clearly did not do so.
"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely
See below (I posted the rule)
Its a judgment call.
"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely
Why the hell was Cabrera fielding the ball anyway?
That’s the 2nd baseman’s ball.
by seattle_since_81 on Jun 2, 2010 6:13 PM PDT up reply actions
No Griffey/Silva jokes.
It's hard to convince people to let you eat them if you're an asshole. - Thingray
That's a 20yd field goal of a prediction right there, Sullivan.
It's hard to convince people to let you eat them if you're an asshole. - Thingray
What are tonight's powerball numbers, Jeff?
I’ll cut you in on half.
I feel awful for Joyce.
Not as awful as I feel for Galarraga and his teammates, but Joyce is a dude who made a mistake. The stubbornness of the baseball establishment as a whole is to blame for why Joyce didn’t have an opportunity to correct himself.
Rule 4.19 on protested games
From the MLB rule book:
4.19
PROTESTING GAMES.
Each league shall adopt rules governing procedure for protesting a game, when a manager claims that an umpire’s decision is in violation of these rules. No protest shall ever be permitted on judgment decisions by the umpire. In all protested games, the decision of the League President shall be final.
Even if it is held that the protested decision violated the rules, no replay of the game will be ordered unless in the opinion of the League President the violation adversely affected the protesting team’s chances of winning the game.
Rule 4.19 Comment: Whenever a manager protests a game because of alleged misapplication of the rules the protest will not be recognized unless the umpires are notified at the time the play under protest occurs and before the next pitch, play or attempted play. A protest arising on a game-ending play may be filed until 12 noon the following day with the league office.
"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely
I'm pretty sure
that Jim Joyce has the biggest balls ever. To make that call on the 27th out of a potential perfect game, and to do it in Detroit. Get that man some security, or don’t, either way.
DOWN WITH JAMES JOYCE
WORST AUTHOR EVER
by theslothking on Jun 2, 2010 6:21 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Btw I wish Leyland had pulled a Pinella and started throwing bases and stuff
That would have have been awesome.
"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely
I was pretty amazed that Joyce didn't.
by seattle_since_81 on Jun 2, 2010 6:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Is that an admission of guilt?
I can't resist clicking "Rec" when I see a post with four [of them] already.
by thehemogoblin on Jun 2, 2010 6:24 PM PDT up reply actions
My the look on his face, I think he realized pretty quickly that he might have botched that.
And you could tell the significance of it was sinking in pretty bad.
The Cleveland player looked shocked to be called safe
Players know when they are out/safe.
"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely
He totally looked like, "OH SHIT, you called me safe...oooh no!"
I fucking hate you Mariners
Jim Leyland was very well spoken on mlb network.
He was very neutral and not a dick at all. Leyland said the call looked like an out but that Joyce is a good ump, it’s the human element of the game and thats just what happens.
The last thing Leyland or any manager wants to do is publicly rip on an umpire
You don’t want to make enemies of them
Determined, Jonesing Commentor
This was the most hilariously ridiculously awful thing I've seen in a long time.
If I’m Bud Selig and I’m watching this game, I’m pulling out the best-interest-of-baseball clause and saying that was an out and Galarraga has his perfect game.
Charter Member: Dave Sims Sweet Hat Club
by Two Rs and Two Ls on Jun 2, 2010 6:28 PM PDT reply actions
Who cares? He's the commissioner!
What’s the worst that would happen? An umpire strike? Heavens no!
Determined, Jonesing Commentor
Leyland should NOT have left the field until he got tossed or the call reversed.
He did not do enough. After the call is blown it is Leyland’s shoulders.
It was pretty obvious Joyce wasn't going to toss anyone.
You want him to just stand there and throw a tantrum for 30 minutes?
by msb on Jun 2, 2010 6:37 PM PDT up reply actions
I just want the satisfaction of knowing the manager did absolutely everything possible to help is player out.
Say if this happened to the Mariners, other than the obvious feelings, I’d be mad at Wak.
What the hell is Leyland supposed to do?
Umpires absolutely NEVER reverse their own calls on bang-bang plays.
And note the comment below by msb.
Im new. Is there a way to link to his comment. (For future reference.)
That "on" killed your time.
It's hard to convince people to let you eat them if you're an asshole. - Thingray
You were told by BigR and BrianL how to do this.
But for future reference as well, you are not linking to his comment. You are linking to her comment.
I found this:
The Major League Baseball Umpire Manual addresses call reversal in section 4.12 under the title, “Crew Consultation and Getting The Play Right.” The following plays lend themselves for call reversal, according to the Manual:
- Deciding whether a fly ball that left the playing field is fair or foul (also listed above).
- Deciding whether a batted ball left the playing field for a home run or a ground-rule double.
- Cases where a foul tip is dropped by the catcher, causing it to become a foul ball.
- Cases where an umpire clearly errs in judgment because a ball is dropped or juggled after making a tag or force.
- Spectator interference plays.
- Balks called by an umpire who clearly did not realize the pitcher’s foot was off the rubber.
by msb on Jun 2, 2010 6:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Actually, the juggle would probably apply.
I can't resist clicking "Rec" when I see a post with four [of them] already.
by thehemogoblin on Jun 2, 2010 6:44 PM PDT up reply actions
And the "umpire clearly errs" part.
Hence Leyland should have requested that the umps meet to make the correct call.
"because a ball is dropped or juggled after making a tag or force"
Not applicable here.
What if Joyce thought he didn't have the ball? It did shift in his glove, I guess.
I can't resist clicking "Rec" when I see a post with four [of them] already.
by thehemogoblin on Jun 2, 2010 6:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Sentence states because a ball is dropped
not because a ball is thought to have been dropped.
You can’t parse that sentence both ways. It reads as out calls that should be changed to safe calls.
I was going with juggled, not dropped. I think that makes a difference in this case.
I can't resist clicking "Rec" when I see a post with four [of them] already.
by thehemogoblin on Jun 2, 2010 6:56 PM PDT up reply actions
If Joyce is calling safe because he perceived the ball to be juggled by Galarraga,
then he has erred in judgment subsequent to a force out. It doesn’t say “after calling the player out.” It just says “after a tag or force.”
But if another umpire could have conceivably seen it and recognized the ball was not dropped, a call reversal could have been made.
I can't resist clicking "Rec" when I see a post with four [of them] already.
by thehemogoblin on Jun 2, 2010 6:58 PM PDT up reply actions
See below
“If a decision is appealed, the umpire making the decision may ask another umpire for information before making a final decision. No umpire shall criticize, seek to reverse or interfere with another umpire’s decision unless asked to do so by the umpire making it.”
by msb on Jun 2, 2010 7:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes, this, too.
I think the assumption to the joint complaint from hemoglobin and Tyler is that Leyland would admit that he “thought” it was bobbled and asked for help. My reply to Matthew was only saying that the dropped/juggled rule applies here assuming juggling and a force.
They can say one thing and believe the other.
My point being that I feel there is (and has to be) a way for these umpires to bullshit their way out of this. They all could say they saw a bobble (knowing that there wasn’t), allowing the possibility of this clause to be interpreted such that it gets reversed.
Galarraga snowconed it.
I can't resist clicking "Rec" when I see a post with four [of them] already.
by thehemogoblin on Jun 2, 2010 6:46 PM PDT up reply actions
They need to go back and give him the perfect game.
I know he didn’t have the ability to celebrate like he should, but I’m sure Galaragga would certainly appreciate having his name put down as one of 21 guys to throw a perfect game.
Bud Selig needs to reverse that call.
I think...
at best they may decide to rule that an error….I mean…CLEARLY he bobbled the ball, right? He’d still get a no hitter.
This was absolute BS
How does the ump make that call in that situation. I saw a very similar thing in Arizona a few years ago. With 1 out in the 9th, a similar blown call was made that cost Carlos Zombrano a no hitter. This is just unbelievable.
Wait, which way do the umpires rotate?
Is he going to be behind home plate tomorrow? The Tigers DO play another one at home vs. Cleveland….
Charter Member: Dave Sims Sweet Hat Club
by Two Rs and Two Ls on Jun 2, 2010 6:37 PM PDT reply actions
I can't imagine him umpiring tomorrow.
I fucking hate you Mariners
Third -> Second -> First -> Home
Looks like Joyce is slated to be the home plate umpire tomorrow.
Oh man. That should be interesting.
Karma police, arrest this man.
by wyte_lightning on Jun 2, 2010 6:41 PM PDT up reply actions
The jokes are starting already
BREAKING NEWS: Bud Selig, after reviewing videotape from tonight’s controversial umpire’s call that cost Armando Galarraga the 21st perfect game in MLB history and third in the last 23 days, has declared the Detroit-Cleveland contest a tie.
Fans are typically idiots.
by The Typical Idiot Fan on Jun 2, 2010 6:42 PM PDT reply actions
That was Divish
Official Mariners feed has been busy RTing #thanksjunior
Did anyone see Joe West's abuse of power in the White Sox v. Indians game last week?
That was an utter disgrace to the umpiring profession and the game of baseball. With that in mind (even though I feel tremendously bad for Galarraga), I can’t seem to get too worked up about this particular missed call. However costly it may be, it’s just another baby step towards increased usage of instant replay.
From the Official Rules
9.02
(a) Any umpire’s decision which involves judgment, such as, but not limited to, whether a batted ball is fair or foul, whether a pitch is a strike or a ball, or whether a runner is safe or out, is final. No player, manager, coach or substitute shall object to any such judgment decisions.
Rule 9.02(a) Comment: Players leaving their position in the field or on base, or managers or coaches leaving the bench or coaches box, to argue on BALLS AND STRIKES will not be permitted. They should be warned if they start for the plate to protest the call. If they continue, they will be ejected from the game.
(b) If there is reasonable doubt that any umpire’s decision may be in conflict with the rules, the manager may appeal the decision and ask that a correct ruling be made. Such appeal shall be made only to the umpire who made the protested decision.
© If a decision is appealed, the umpire making the decision may ask another umpire for information before making a final decision. No umpire shall criticize, seek to reverse or interfere with another umpire’s decision unless asked to do so by the umpire making it.
Rule 9.02© Comment: The manager or the catcher may request the plate umpire to ask his partner for help on a half swing when the plate umpire calls the pitch a ball, but not when the pitch is called a strike. The manager may not complain that the umpire made an improper call, but only that he did not ask his partner for help. Field umpires must be alerted to the request from the plate umpire and quickly respond. Managers may not protest the call of a ball or strike on the pretense they are asking for information about a half swing.
Wait...
So you guys really want to send the umps to the instant replay room to review close safe/out calls on the basepaths? Isn’t that getting a little too nitpicky?
This is different from home run/not a home run because there’s much less at stake, so the potential is there to extend the lengths of games way out unnecessarily. And let’s face it, as much as we love too geek out on perfect games, the outcome of the game wasn’t affected.
Whatever needs to happen to make sure calls are correct should happen
Why play the games at all if calls are going to be blown? I’d rather take an extra five minutes to make sure the game is conducted accurately.
Determined, Jonesing Commentor
Also perfect games are not something people wrongfully "geek out" about
23 Perfect Games have been thrown in Major League history. The Perfect Game is the most difficult achievement in baseball and it should absolutely not be compromised by an erroneous third party
Determined, Jonesing Commentor
23?
You counting Pedro and Harvey Haddix, as well as Galarraga?
I can't resist clicking "Rec" when I see a post with four [of them] already.
by thehemogoblin on Jun 2, 2010 7:03 PM PDT up reply actions
No further comments because I'm going to stay civil, but I think you're completely wrong.
It's hard to convince people to let you eat them if you're an asshole. - Thingray
The only thing I care about is that calls are correct.
Umpires should not determine the outcome of games, the players should.
Sorry,
but I suspect this will be a big story for about a week. Maybe. And then it will blow over. Because it didn’t happen to the Yankees or the Red Sox (though I may be biased, since I’m also a huge Seahawks fan and I’m used to blown calls). And even if MLB does do anything about it, they will probably screw it up.
On a side note: I may be a bit of a pessimist.
Now with more lemon bars!
This will be a story for a lot longer than a week.
This has never happened. And with an ump admitting that he ruined a kid’s perfect game and the technology sitting right there in the corner, unused, I think there are going to be some discussions.
George Brett got his Home Run back!!
The Royals eventually won the "Pine Tar" game. All be it nearly a month later, none the less there is a precedent for this just not from Selig. So while he’ll never have that true "Holy fuck I just threw a Perfect Game" celebration it should at least be added that he is now the only pitcher in MLB history to have thrown a 28 out Perfect Game.
"It's a light bat"
The rules say you can reverse a decision based on the misapplication of the rules.
But not for a blown judgement call.
If you read the recap of the game on MLB.com
Joyce even admits that he made the wrong call. Even Galarraga says " I felt bad for him, he was all teary-eyed."
It looks like the ball was still moving in Galarraga's glove when the runner's foot hit 1st.
Does the ball have to be stationary in the glove or can there be a slight bobble and it still be called an out.
Watching the replay in real time it looked to me like Galarrga didn’t have a firm handle on the ball.
That said, I think we should use all means at our disposal to increase call accuracy, consistency and speed.
It sucks for Galarraga but I hope the call stands.
The call was blown, and I’d hate for them to fix this a week from now and then defend the umpire status quo by saying that “the system works!!!”
I’d rather Galarraga get the 1hit shutout and actually have this situation be a fulcrum for change.
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