Nutshots & Studying Pain Tolerance
In the ninth inning last night, Rob Johnson took a foul tip off the junk. It wasn't funny, because it was a foul tip off the junk, but it was funny, because people getting hit in the junk is funny, because the reactions tend to be pricelessly disproportionate to the severity of the damage. Bonus funny points were granted on account of it being Rob Johnson on the receiving end.
What was interesting about Johnson, though, was the speed with which he collapsed forward in a heap, and the amount of time he spent positioned in said heap on the ground. Not that any man who's ever been hit in the junk would ever condemn another man for not taking it well when he gets hit in the junk, but if you thought Johnson's response and recovery were drawn out and unusually excessive, you weren't alone. It seemed like a long delay, and longer than we've seen in the past.
So I went to the video and made use of the stopwatch on my phone that I just discovered by accident last night. Serendipity! Here's the relevant data for Rob Johnson's nutshot:
| Pitch | 93mph fastball |
| Result | Foul tip |
| Time to ground | 3s |
| Time to kneel | 80s |
| Time to stand | 110s |
| Time to warmup | 150s |
| Time to next pitch | 190s |
The most important thing, of course, is the time to next pitch. That's the best measure of how well a guy takes a foul tip off the junk. All the stuff in between only adds color. More than three minutes passed between the pitch that hit Rob Johnson in the junk and the next pitch that did not hit Rob Johnson in the junk.
But then, what is data without a point of comparison? And that's where LL comes in handy. The activity in the game threads can frequently be overwhelming, but the advantage of having so many comments is that everything that happens on the field gets archived online, so by using the search bar we're able to track down the timing of prior events with ease. It was in this way that I was able to pull up a relevant Kenji Johjima nutshot from 2008. Results?
| Pitch | 88mph fastball |
| Result | Foul tip |
| Time to ground | N/A |
| Time to kneel | 2s |
| Time to stand | 60s |
| Time to warmup | N/A |
| Time to next pitch | 92s |
Roy Corcoran got Kenji good, but Kenji took it a hell of a lot better than Johnson did. He never went to the ground, and he didn't need a warmup pitch. He just knelt, caught his breath, and recovered in half the time.
Worried that this might've been an anomaly, I pulled up another relevant Kenji nutshot from 2006. The camera work on this one wasn't as good, so I couldn't measure the transition stages, but Kenji took a Javy Lopez foul tip on a JJ Putz 88mph splitter off the junk, knelt, and prepared to catch the next pitch just 72 seconds later. 72 seconds. That's 20 seconds faster than the first Kenji clip I pulled up, and an unthinkable 118 seconds faster than Rob Johnson last night.
Following are what Rob Johnson and Kenji looked like after 72 seconds, respectively:
And lest you think that Kenji is just some sort of unfeeling iron man, remember that Adrian Beltre took one of the most famous baseballs off the junk in Seattle history last August when he was playing the field. The baseball tore one of Adrian Beltre's testicles. Time to next pitch: 68 seconds, with much of the delay caused by a changing of the batters. Beltre winced, but never fell to the ground. He didn't even kneel or rest his hands on his knees for more than a moment.
Last night, Rob Johnson took a foul tip off the junk. You never want to criticize the way a man responds to a foul tip off the junk, because it really hurts, but, really? More than three minutes? You're a catcher, Rob. You're a catcher in the Major Leagues. It's time to start acting like you've been there before.
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I also loved how Gabe Gross stole second on the next pitch, and how I called that to my boss, who I was watching the game with.
I can't resist clicking "Rec" when I see a post with four [of them] already.
The nutshot is the only injury for which "rub some dirt on it" could get you arrested
by pdb on May 19, 2010 3:59 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
A boob related injury could result in this.
Everything is Rob Johnson's fault.
by the other side on May 19, 2010 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Maybe the 5 mph difference in fastball speed is significant?
Just playing devil’s advocate, but both of Kenji’s hits came on 88 mph pitches.
It seems the reaction from batters is quite different when they get buzzed with a 98 mph fastball, as opposed to a 93 mph one or 88 mph one… maybe the increase in speed increases the pain exponentially.
Or maybe, Rob Johnson is just a wuss in ADDITION to being terrible at baseball.
I'm not a professional athlete
but I’d be amazed if a 98 mph fastball to the junk hurt more than a 93 mph fastball to the junk. After a point, it’s just miserably painful no matter what.
I thought about that, but decided it wasn't worth addressing
Balls are delicate. They can get hurt by walking in jeans. There’s probably a difference between getting hit by a baseball at 5mph and a baseball at 10mph, but once you get beyond, I dunno, 12, it’s all just a baseball to the junk. I can’t even imagine.
by Jeff Sullivan on May 19, 2010 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions 5 recs
So if we were to graph this, the pain will increase as velocity does but eventually plateau beyond a certain point?
You got slurved!
Absolutely
and I’m pretty sure beyond 100mph there’s no pain at all. Just instant death.
by Jeff Sullivan on May 19, 2010 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions 6 recs
We should look into Aroldis doing a favor for us.
“Yes Mr. Chapman hit him right there.”
Everything is Rob Johnson's fault.
by the other side on May 19, 2010 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Shouldn't the axis(whatever the plural is) be switched? Pain goes up exponentially as speed steadily increases.
Everything is Rob Johnson's fault.
by the other side on May 19, 2010 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions
A 93 mph nutshot would entail about 1/3 of a joule in additional kinetic energy compared to an 88 mph nut shot
assuming a baseball’s mass is .145kg
I applaud the calculation
I’m puzzled by the comma.
On the main point, you have me convinced that it would hurt at least a little more.
So how many kilos of force does a 100mph fastball deliver, then?
It says on a few sites I’ve read that 50kg is enough to crush/rupture the testicle, and obviously Adrian experienced that level of damage last year, so a baseball is capable of delivering that type of force.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
Also, let's not go so far as to say that Rob Johnson is a wuss
He stayed in the game. He stayed in the game after that foul tip off the finger, too.
He just takes his time like a pretty princess.
by Jeff Sullivan on May 19, 2010 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Besides, it can't be completely objective
Without X-ray vision and slo-mo (and who would want that anyway, ick) it’s entirely possible Kenji took a glancing blow to the junk, while Johnson took a direct hit.
I would be willing to bet
that a large part of that 190 seconds was spent trying not to vomit copiously all over the home plate area.
Imagine the ump trying to clean the plate off with his little brush after that
*Sweep*Sweep*Sweep*
by HititHere on May 19, 2010 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions 4 recs
Well, I researched for about 30 minutes and didn't find anything conclusive
on google.
I would guess it has to do with the nerve pathway from the testicles (The pudendal nerve enervates the entire crotch, including the testicles), and the ‘overload’ mechanism present in the spinal cord for dealing with overly traumatic inputs, such as a swift junk-shot.
Basically, when the spinal cord gets overloaded then it becomes a de facto brain and sort of processes the data by itself, issuing responses as it sees fit. Usually, the responses aren’t all that productive (like when a paraplegic’s heart rate and blood pressure absolutely skyrocket due to a wrinkle in their bedsheets, known as autonomic dysreflexia).
Not knowing for sure why the testicle trauma = nausea/vomiting, I would guess it has to do with this type of broken feedback mechanism in the spinal cord.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
Speculating without personal experience
but could the edge of the cup been driven into something? And would that be quantifiably more painful?
Not unless an edge got driven directly into a testicle, which seems unlikely given that that's not how they're worn
by Jeff Sullivan on May 19, 2010 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Had a friend in HS who this pretty much happened to
Took a pitch off his cup and I think what happened was his testicle got pinched between the cup and his leg. Was pretty bad… had to go to the hospital and everything…
But yeah, that’s probably not how they’re supposed to be worn
Didn't this happen to Michael Barrett a c(o)uple of years ago?
I can't resist clicking "Rec" when I see a post with four [of them] already.
by thehemogoblin on May 19, 2010 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I get it.
The parentheses. Took me a second though. Well done.
by Matt Erickson on May 19, 2010 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions
What do you know about how Rob Johnson wears his cup?
by FlaskInSafeco on May 19, 2010 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't know anything about how Rob Johnson wears his cup
I know a lot about how you’re supposed to wear a cup, and, being a catcher, Johnson presumably isn’t in the business of putting himself in needless extra danger.
by Jeff Sullivan on May 19, 2010 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm inclined to agree with your assessment,
but then again, I’ve seen Rob Johnson lack the skills that are generally assumed of a major league catcher many a time.
by FlaskInSafeco on May 19, 2010 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions
That makes Beltre's recovery time so much more impressive.
He wasn’t even wearing a cup.
by TrustBaseball on May 19, 2010 6:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Hahah was this really necessary
I mean does taking a nut shot in stride make you a better catcher? I think we should focus more on the lack of skill or depth in our catching position.
I kind of hope this year goes terrible so we could get some good prospects for Lee and Lopez..
I wonder what type of players we could get if we clean house.
I would hope that people don't read this as an actual criticism
by Jeff Sullivan on May 19, 2010 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions
If you found it unnecessary
perhaps you should have stopped reading it, moved on to something you found more interesting, and not said anything?
No harm no foul
just a tip for next time.
by pdb on May 19, 2010 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions 4 recs
You need to take into account crowd size.
Does time to next pitch have to do with how many people are watching in person?
Are we sure Rob Johnson was even wearing a cup?
That could make a difference. You’d think a professional catcher would have heard of the occasional “cup check.”
Even Rob.....Right?
Everything is Rob Johnson's fault.
by the other side on May 19, 2010 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Of course he was wearing a cup. He would have been down for a lot longer than 3 minutes without a cup.
Speaking as a former hockey goalie, getting pegged in the nuts while you’re wearing a cup still hurts, but not for that long. Your business gets jostled, then you get a little nauseous, and then you’re fine.
Maybe Kenji has an immunity to getting nauseous.
Milton Bradley apologist
by sanford_and_son on May 19, 2010 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions
I haven't worn a cup for about 5 years now
but unless technology has changed, or I was wearing them like an idiot, there is potential for one or potentially 2 nuts to be exposed at the very bottom of the cup in a squatting position like being at catcher. The hanging of the nuts combined with the pushing up of the cup that results from a squatting position can lead to a slightly or fully exposed nut.
I know what you mean, but man, I sure hope catchers wear better cups than that.
My goalie cup was enormous and made me feel like some sort ball-protected superhero. It was awesome.
Milton Bradley apologist
by sanford_and_son on May 19, 2010 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Maybe he didn't get hit in the balls at all and instead got it a little farther down in the unexposed regions below the cup.
I imagine a fastball to the taint would suck.
by Edgar for Pres on May 19, 2010 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Or maybe Rob Johnson has massive balls
by Edgar for Pres on May 19, 2010 4:50 PM PDT up reply actions
One way to find out
May 19, 2009
Robert Johnson
Catcher
Seattle Mariners
P.O. Box 4100
Seattle, WA 98194-0100
Dear Robert,
We are the members of an online community called Lookout Landing, a website for Seattle Mariners fans who gather online to watch and discuss Seattle Mariners Baseball. Though we doubtlessly have our differences in opinion on the keys to success for the franchise, we all come together around the ideal of using empirical data to form well founded, evidence driven conclusions regarding the intricacies of excellence in play at a modern, major league team.
Occasionally, however, we are reduced to guessing or even crass speculation due to the lack of insider perspective or accurate and quantifiable data. Highlighting this dilemma is the 93 mph Brandon League fastball you took to the junk on May 18th of this year, during the ninth inning of an already painful 5-6 extra-innings loss to the Oakland Athletics. While we were left with many questions about decision made, opportunity missed and the future of the team, this play left us at a loss of both reasonable explanation and discernible fact.
Similar situations have happened to Mariners catchers past. For instance, in 2008, former Mariners catcher Kenji Johjima took an 88 mph fastball to the junk off of a foul tip. Yet the outcome of this situation was markedly different than what occurred last night. For instance, while over three full minutes elapsed between the fastball impacting your junk and the resuming of the game, as noted by the delivery of the next pitch, a mere 92 seconds passed between Roy Corcoran’s devastating blow and the resumption of play. Likewise, a 88 mph JJ Putz splitter which impacted Johjima’s junk in 2006 resulted in play being resumed in just 72 secons—almost two minutes less than your collapse and subsequent recomposition last night.
As a community, we are at a loss to explain this. One hypothesis is that the extra 5 mph on your junkshot contributed as much as an additional 1/3rd joule to the force of impact. Perhaps there is an exponential, nonlinear relationship between joules and down time for foul tips to the junk. However, an equally likely explanation is an equipment malfunction due to incorrect placement. Should your protective gear ridden up slightly higher than the manufacturer recommends, perhaps your lower junk was inadequately protected from the full force of impact. Lastly, additional downtime on your part could be potentially attributed to a “pinching” scenario, where the protective measure was in turn used to relay force upon junk not properly stowed away under its protective encompass.
While the specifics of velocity, mass and time represent data that are readily available to us, it is clear that the specif information we need to satisfy our inquiry and add to the understanding of baseball is beyond our collective grasp. We respectfully request that you take the time to satisfy this inquiry, and greatly appreciate your candor in doing so. Your perspective is welcomed and eagerly awaited.
Thank you for taking the to read this, and best of luck with the rest of the season.
Sincerely,
(undersigned)
by SeattExPat on May 19, 2010 6:20 PM PDT reply actions 27 recs
So rec'd.
Just make sure you change the date to May 19, 2010 when you actually mail this to the Mariners (which you’d damned well better do).
And that's why you read before posting.
Noticing one or two more typos.
"Perhaps there is an exponential, nonlinear relationship between joules and down time for foul tips to the junk."
I love this part especially. Nice work.
That whole paragraph
is the one that takes it home.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
I think the actual reason behind why Rob Johnson sucks at catching the ball
is because he’s afraid of it.
I think he’s a pussy (for lack of a better word) compared to guys like Kenji, Beltre, or most professional ballplayers, and therefore is too scared of the ball hurting him.
He sometimes instinctively flinches away from the ball, just has his hand out there, with his face almost averted (almost like his eyes are closed with fear), and let’s the ball get by. It happens too many goddamm fucking times.
And I say "pussy" compared to guys like Kenji, Beltre, or most professional ballplayers,
and not compared to the average guy off the street. A ballplayer is a ballplayer no matter how much he sucks compared to his contemporaries.
(But they do ge better paid than the average guy off the street also).
Speaking of pussy...
I wish we had some way of comparing pain thresholds between getting hit in the balls and getting hit in the vagina. Possibly Johnson reacted differently to getting hit down there because he has something different down there than these other guys? I would imagine the pain of getting hit in the testicles would outweigh that of getting hit in the vagina, but who knows? With the proper angle, that could do some serious damage…
Is this too far? I know we all hate Rob Johnson, but I feel a little bad for saying he has woman parts. Maybe I just feel like I’m insulting women.
Are you making a case for female catchers?
If so, I’m intrigued.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
You are bad.
Girl parts jokes are so dead meme’d and unoriginal.
by Eyebrows on May 20, 2010 10:53 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions

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