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Around SBN: The Most Dangerous Division in Sports

14-25, Game Thoughts

Unpleasant conversations you may not have to face:

1) Love interest/significant other: How can you care that much about sports? Sports are pointless. Why can't you care that much about me?

2) You: Yeah, sorry babe, I'd love to, but I gotta watch a game that night. What about the next day? Just so long as we're back by 7.

3) You: So do I drop $250 on the authentic Saunders or $250 on the authentic Gutierrez?

And there are others. Lots of others. If you really think about it, by being lousy, the Mariners are kind of doing you a favor.

  • This was such a slow game, in such a lifeless atmosphere, with so many unexciting players that by the time extra innings rolled around, I just wanted things to end, even if the A's came out on top. There was a scene in House where our hero remarked on how his oncologist friend's patients would thank him when he told them they were dying. This game reminded me of that. The M's may have lost, but I still found myself thankful.

  • You're forgiven if this kind of slipped your mind as things wore on, but today began as Felix Day. It was not a very good one, as the A's kept pounding everything on a line. Ordinarily, when you see six strikeouts and 11 hits in six innings, you assume a little bad luck, but most of those hits were legitimate, as Felix struggled with his command all day long. This gives Felix three pretty mediocre starts out of four. I'm not sure what the problem is, but there are so many problems to investigate on this team that I can hardly work up the motivation to investigate any one of them. So Felix is in a funk? The whole team is in a funk. I think that means they're bonding.

  • For nearly four and a half innings, Rob Johnson was having the game of his life. He delivered a game-tying line drive home run, he added a hard-hit single, he picked an important runner off at third base with a hell of a throw, and he gunned down Rajai Davis on a pitchout. Then everything started coming apart in the fifth. With two on and two down, Ichiro smacked a base hit to left, but Johnson was throwing out trying for third just before Casey Kotchman could touch home plate, negating a run. That was a play that demonstrated zero field awareness. Later on, Johnson struck out with a runner in scoring position, struck out again with a man on first, and let a Brandon League splitter in the dirt get away, allowing Cliff Pennington - the eventual winning run - to advance from second to third. Now that we know he's probably okay, we can laugh at Johnson getting drilled in the sack by a foul ball, because he kind of deserves it for all the shit he's put us through. Even when he's having the best game of his life, he still finds a way to push his suck front and center.

  • Bottom of the tenth: a summary

    -four-pitch walk, where none of the four is more than an inch or two from the zone
    -runner advances to second when Franklin Gutierrez is caught off guard after catching a fly ball
    -runner advances to third when Rob Johnson can't handle a splitter
    -runner scores when Kurt Suzuki rolls a grounder past an immobile Matt Tuiasosopo

    Brandon League got the loss, and he's probably developing a bit of a reputation among the more casual fans, but one could argue that the only thing he did wrong in the inning was just barely miss his spots against Pennington. Once Pennington got on base, everything else was the fault of the defense. Gutierrez needs to be more heads-up, Johnson needs to be more not Johnson, and Tuiasosopo needs to not be on the roster anymore. I know League hasn't exactly been the guy we thought we were trading for so far, but he's also kind of gotten it in the shorts.

  • With a one-run lead in the bottom of the seventh, Don Wakamatsu was comfortable going to Kanekoa Texeira. A broken-bat single and a beanball later, Wak wanted Sean White. By that point, Texeira had thrown three pitches. Only one of them was bad. But Wak still called on arguably the worst pitcher on the team, even though White is not a groundballer and he struggles quite a bit against lefties. A lot of bad decisions involve more than managerial discretion. This was not one of them. Texeira was fine. Shawn Kelley pitched later. Brandon League pitched later. Hell, David Aardsma stirred once or twice. Sean White was the wrong choice for that situation, and Wak got burned.

    In White's defense, he did come up with a good at bat against Jack Cust. He got ahead with a big loopy curve, missed outside with a fastball, and came back with three more curves and a changeup before throwing another fastball and finally putting Cust away with a 2-2 change low and away. White doesn't throw his offspeed stuff very often. He should consider throwing it more, because his fastball is bad.

  • Michael Saunders may not be on fire anymore, but he did lead off the ninth with a good walk against Andrew Bailey, and in the eighth he came in to make a shoestring catch on a sinking Ryan Sweeney liner and then immediately threw to first to double up an over-aggressive Daric Barton. The point is, despite the 0-3, Saunders still did some positive things, and with Milton Bradley possibly returning as soon as tomorrow, it's had to envision a scenario in which Saunders gets sent back down. The cynic in me still expects Ryan Langerhans to just go on the DL rather than the M's doing anything significant with their clownshoes DH platoon, but I know there's a little part of me somewhere that always has faith in other people to do the right thing.

  • Let's just put this in plain English: Ken Griffey Jr., the player, right now, is a worthless pile of shit. It's true that he's been making better contact lately. He's gotten air under some balls rather than simply rolling them over. You know what that better contact has gotten him? A .114 May batting average. I'm certain there's more to this story than meets the eye, but whoever's responsible for Griffey still getting playing time gets to go to sleep with the knowledge that this whole DH catastrophe is one of the biggest reasons the M's are just about out of the race. This is embarrassing. The Seattle Mariners are a Major League baseball team. I don't give a shit if Griffey looks better in batting practice, or if he's getting the barrel on the ball. He's worse than Wilson Valdez. Make him disappear. The fans that get butthurt by the organization doing something that's clearly in its own best interests aren't fans of the organization anyway. 

  • Casey Kotchman is 27 years old and still he makes mistakes on the basepaths most people stop making in high school. The neat thing about Kotchman screwing up on the basepaths is that at least he's on the basepaths, but for example, today, Casey Kotchman of all people should know not to pose when he thinks he's hit a homer. He should just book it out of the box on any ball in play. Even if the ball clears the wall, he'll still have about 320 feet to jog.

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If anyone watched Survivor a couple weeks ago

when Colby was yelling at his brother, this Mariner team reminds me of that. And then Jeff (Probst, although you could do it too Jeff [Sullivan]says, “The team has been like that for all 39 days”. GOD DAMN IT Mariners!

Right now I'm dreaming of Carl Crawford. Maybe next year...(or this year at the trade deadline)...

by SeaKoala on May 19, 2010 3:50 AM PDT reply actions  

Mariners Management

As a fan, I really feel screwed by the Mariners for continuing to play Griffey. Why do we get saddled with this weird, warped relationship between (mis) Management and this old fat guy who, I guess, thinks he’ll catch fire and get to a .500 OPS? Oh my GOD! What did I say? I don’t know where the other old guy is at!!!

[Whack! Slam!! Punch-punch!!!]

I believe BIG!!!! It’s just a matter of time until guys step up. This is what makes men out of boys! Go Mariners!!!

by PackBob on May 19, 2010 4:12 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Saw the play by play

and wondered how Pennington got to second on a flyout to center.

by wobatus on May 19, 2010 4:29 AM PDT reply actions  

I saw it on TV and still don't really get it.

The M’s had 2 runners take an extra base on Jack Cust early in the game, and I think that planted a seed in several people’s minds.
First, it made Rob Johnson think he could go 1st to 3rd on a sharp single to Cust just because Cust is not a very good OF.
Second, it made the A’s think there may be something to this take-an-extra-base-if-the-OF-is-clearly-not-expecting-it thing.

by marc w on May 19, 2010 9:06 AM PDT up reply actions  

I wondered

if maybe Gutierrez made a spectacular catch that left him flat on the ground or over the fence.

The whole thing on play by play just reads sad.

by wobatus on May 19, 2010 9:47 AM PDT up reply actions  

In his defense

it was one of those wierd plays where the 2b and the runner were lined up to where he couldn’t really see the runner taking off.

That’s my guess anyway. Still all sorts of bad though.

by d0nkey on May 19, 2010 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

Matthew might get on my case again (and I'm sorry if so) but I think it's really aggravating to lose because of moronic mistakes

When you say for example “if only Griffey had hit a HR we would have won” that’s not being very realistic, but is too much to say that if only Rob Johnson had refrained from being a moron on the basepaths, we would have had a high probability to win the game?
Kotchmann scores normally on Ichiro’s hit and we’re one up at the end of the ninth. Game over.

I mean players not performing well is the norm on our team (i.e. almost everybody on the roster except Ichiro, Guti, Rainiers, and the 4 starting pitchers except RRS who sucked) but is it too much to ask that players just not make moronic plays?

Like Byrnes shying away from a suicide bunt, which move was was so unbelievably stupid that the opposing manager got thrown out for arguing because he could not believe any major leaguer could be so fundamentally inept.

And there are other games where players (or coaches) making simple costly moronic mistakes cost us the game.

I mean it’s too much asking bad players to suddenly develop abilities to hit the ball, etc., but could they just avoid making some goddamm fucking moronic mistakes? Bad fundamentals are so aggravating to have to watch.

by Sam Regens on May 19, 2010 5:47 AM PDT reply actions  

The Rob Johnson gif is a pretty good summary of the M's season

because on the one hand, RJ represents a lot of the inexplicable – inexcusable really – roster decisions that are sinking the team, and on the other hand watching these M’s has been like getting it in the babymaker again and again.

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on May 19, 2010 6:00 AM PDT reply actions  

I'm surprised it too so long for someone to mention that

Chavez had a “I feel kind of bad, but OH SHIT that’s funny!” look on his face.

by HititHere on May 19, 2010 9:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

Well, I was referring to the original post

Recap posted at almost 2 am, and nobody commented on Chavez laughing at RJ until 6 am. 4 hours!

by HititHere on May 19, 2010 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions  

CHRIST, I'm just going to stop posting today

Since I fail again… I totally missed that thread.

Sorry everyone, move along, nothing to see here.

by HititHere on May 19, 2010 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions  

The search is on for the line between ego and panic

Jack Z may have held onto his process this long out of vanity (ego). “The process is sound, regression upward is inevitable, stay the course.” That would be good thinking if it wasn’t so staggeringly obvious that some of his current players don’t fit that process, or at very least don’t anymore. There is a clear disconnect between the “Mariner blueprint” so gushingly profiled in the offseason and what is happening between the lines.

I get that he doesn’t want to make panicked moves for the sake of making moves. Panicking inspires confidence in no one. But at what point does he cut bait on choices that don’t work (Griffey, Sweeney, Johnson, Tui)? At what point does he call his manager on the carpet and hold him accountable for lineup/substitution decisions and gaffs in basic fundamentals?

All of this may already be in the works and Z is just doing things on his timeline. But that timeline better be at the far end now. All the momentum and happy vibes from 2009 are gone, and this franchise is sliding back into oblivion.

by lemonverbena on May 19, 2010 7:15 AM PDT via mobile reply actions   5 recs

Well said.

Right now my team sucks, and Junior needs to retire immediately. Ugh. Just ugh.

Not encumbered by the thought process.

by Bart's Evil Twin on May 19, 2010 7:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

Without resorting to rosterbation,

who replaces Griffey/Sweeney/Johnson/Tui? Not just ‘anybody!’ – who?

Johnson’s the easiest, even w/Moore injured (he’s better than Moore at this point anyway). So: Jack Wilson’s DL’d, Josh Wilson is your starting SS, so… what do you do? Bring up Everidge, Nelson and Woodward? How many runs will we realistically gain from that?

I completely agree with the sentiment of your comment, but I worry that the roster (going beyond the 40 man) wasn’t as flexible as we thought it was. I think there are still clear gains to be made, as you could replace Griffey with Woodward and get a half a win fairly quickly, but SS is one of those areas where we had a fragile starter and….not a whole lot behind him.

by marc w on May 19, 2010 9:10 AM PDT up reply actions  

Hannahan =(

We could use him on the team one way or another

by seattlebruin on May 19, 2010 9:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

Maybe so. Probably true,

but he’s not on the 40 man, has a fairly imposing career MiLB K rate and has basically never played SS until a game or two this month. You’re completely right that he is a probable upgrade, but don’t you think that’s insane?

by marc w on May 19, 2010 9:21 AM PDT up reply actions  

I guess the point is, my head is saying that moves like that won't do a whole lot (though they'll do something)

but my heart doesn’t care. I don’t want to see Junior bat, and I don’t want to see Tui play SS. The runs gained in a very small # of innings at SS going from Tui to Hannahan seem insignificant, but they’re not the point any more. If we’re going to lose, I’d like to lose differently for a while.

by marc w on May 19, 2010 9:32 AM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

Based strictly on results Griffey is hitting worse than Carlos Zambrano and only slightly better than Jamie Moyer.

This is a bit of a repeat/summary from my comment in the OFFTOP, but Figgins, Johnson, Lopez, Moore, and Griffey are also all hitting worse than all of the horrible seasons that we’ve been screaming about over the last few years – 2008 Sexson, 2008 Vidro, 2006 Everett, 2009 Yuni, 2008 Cairo, 2005 Boone. All of those guys performed better than our C, 2B, 3B, and DH have so far this year; and they’ve combined for more than a third of the Mariners’ plate appearances. Replacing those plate appearances with post-decline Sexson or Vidro, or even Yuni would have been more productive. It’s an epic, historically significant level of suck.

As for Griffey, he has been easily the worst of those five at the plate. Our DH, ladies and gentlemen!

by Chris Hafner on May 19, 2010 9:48 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Holy Christ!!

That’s a whole new level of suck!!

"I call the big one Bitey."-Homer J. Simpson

by Willie Mays Haze on May 19, 2010 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

How many ex-M's are in the running for that 'honor'?

I find it fascinating that two regimes haven’t really found an answer for DH, despite it being so easy (theoretically).

by marc w on May 19, 2010 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

If you just stood at the plate and never swung the bat and everybody knew this was your strategy

How good would you do? This seems like a baseline a player should never go below. You’d never get a hit and strikeout a shit ton but you’d never cause a double play and you might walk in a could AB. 2% BB rate sound reasonable?

by Edgar for Pres on May 19, 2010 9:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

I fell asleep at my computer in the 8th inning

This is a good thing. I don’t think I could have stomached watching Rob mishandle another pitch or watching the defense implode. Also, I honestly think Rob Johnson might be the worst catcher I have ever witnessed. I can’t think of another catcher I’ve hated more, at least.

by E-Lizz on May 19, 2010 7:47 AM PDT reply actions  

Rob Johnson reminds me of Carlton Fisk

Unfortunately, he reminds me of current, present-day Carlton Fisk who is 62 years old. No, never mind, I think Fisk would be able to hit better. And catch better.

by RustyJohn on May 19, 2010 8:10 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think we need to put suggestions on a sign

Then hang them next to the ‘In Z We Trust’ banner.

I fucking hate you Mariners

by kentroyals5 on May 19, 2010 8:15 AM PDT via mobile reply actions  

Just add an "if...." to the end of the banner

“In Z We Trust if…. he Old Yellers Griffey”

by Brian Floyd on May 19, 2010 9:48 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I just can't believe that we're having the same problems we had weeks ago, gut-wrenching to watch problems, and nothing has been changed.

When I see Griffey come up to bat, I add an out to the inning. His 4-pitch strikeout being the perfect example that he doesn’t have the bat-speed, bat-control, eyes, or power to be a major league hitter anymore. What change is Wak or anyone in the FO really expecting out of him?

I think it’s funny that watching the A’s broadcast, they replayed Rob Johnsons only home run of the year, in game 1 against Ben Sheets, and said “the only problem is that he hasn’t had another one in 39 games” and on the next pitch he hits it out. I don’t think it’s funny that we’ve lost several games this year because of Rob Johnson and while he did hit that home run, his shittiness always negates it.

And Sean White because Sean White.

That’s 3 players that are probably a 3 or 4 win difference on the season, at least, and they’re still playing… a lot. WHY?!

by Kenneth Arthur on May 19, 2010 8:26 AM PDT reply actions  

I don't have the heart to make snide chemistry remarks any more

This is sounding more and more like 08.

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on May 19, 2010 9:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

So the Mariners have lost 14 of 17.

And the Orioles started the year 2-16.

So yeah… time to start looking at the top 2011 draft prospects?

I know, I know.. that’s really pessimistic. But at least it gives me hope for an exciting draft again.

by Kenneth Arthur on May 19, 2010 9:31 AM PDT up reply actions  

When can we completely butcher the batting order and just see what happens?

It’s not like it could get much worse anyway. Do we really think it will be worse off if Figgins is any other spot but the #2?

by zachw10 on May 19, 2010 10:03 AM PDT reply actions  

It almost cheers me up some to see that I'm not alone in my rage and despair.

I hate to use the word “rage,” because it seems adolescent to find oneself an enraged fan, but — I’m getting close to really hating this team. I hate Griffey by now. I never saw ythe team in 1995 and didn’t he demand a trade after that because he was sentimental about the Cincnnat Reds?

I never felt like this about Sexson or Vidro or Miguel Batista or Horacio Ramirez or even Carlos Silva (although he seemed to be a jerk). I never felt like this about Hargrove or poor McLaren.

ignacio

by ignacio on May 19, 2010 10:44 AM PDT reply actions  

At this point, can't we start to assume the Griffey situation actually is out of Z's hands?

I mean it’s not like Lincoln and Armstrong have never tried to get involved before, and it’s not like Z can really be blind to what’s going on.

by BigR on May 19, 2010 10:51 AM PDT reply actions  

I would rather no one make any assumptions about the Griffey situation

We just don’t know, and it’s enough that we can say that somebody is stupid.

by Jeff Sullivan on May 19, 2010 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions  

Are suspicions reasonable then?

The whole situation just reeks of some underlying bigger problem to me.

by BigR on May 19, 2010 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

Jeff won't try to tell you what you should or should not be suspicious of.

His comment implies that he would prefer that we don’t post them on the blog.

How does Brumley still have a job?

by ToddK on May 19, 2010 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions  

You can be suspicious. I'm suspicious

I just don’t want the place to end up littered with comments blaming Wak or Armstrong for something when we don’t know the whole story of who’s behind it.

by Jeff Sullivan on May 19, 2010 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'm pretty sure it's safe to blame Griffey

he can walk away from it all at any point. He is hurting the team. That he lacks the self awareness to do it is not my problem. Blame Griffey.

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on May 19, 2010 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

Can't we blame Robo?

How does Brumley still have a job?

by ToddK on May 19, 2010 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

Can you really blame a guy for wanting to play if they love the game?

I am sure he is aware, I just don’t know that he really sees that as a viable option. Clearly he wants to keep playing and the team is willing to let him. The team had a chance to get their grand ending. Admitting he sucks and retiring mid season is just not a path he wants to take. Plus if the team keeps sucking after hes gone you get the backlash from fans who cared primarily about Jr. and not what is best for the organization.

by zachw10 on May 19, 2010 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

You can't blame Griffey

Or to clarify that, you can only blame him if you would walk away from the chance to be a MLB player but sucked.

Nobody quits their job because they suck at it if they still enjoy it. Absolutely nobody would quit their job because they suck when they are having fun and getting paid a shitload of money. You get fired if you suck. That’s how employment works. Blaming Griffey for not retiring is shifting the blame from the people who make roster decisions to the players. Hating Griffey because he sucks I think is justified but hating him for not retiring is just a little strange I think. If he is bad, management needs to grow some balls and get rid of him. Until they do that, its their fault.

by Edgar for Pres on May 19, 2010 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I'd love to have some insight into this - though not so much from the Lincoln/Armstrong standpoint.

I think we all believe that the M’s management is still a group of really sharp people, including Wakamatsu – it would be fascinating to get an idea about how the management dream team is discussing these issues (not just Griffey) behind closed doors. Starting at one extreme, I can’t imagine Tom Tango, for example, is a big fan of Tuisasosopo at SS, Sean White as high-leverage reliever, or Griffey batting fifth. I can’t imagine Blengino is either. There has to be some level of disagreement about what’s going on.

I wonder to what extent these things are discussed, and how those conversations go; I think it would be fascinating to know how all of those pieces (Z/Wak/Fusco/Blengino/Kingston/Grifol/McNamara/Tango) fit together and how both the strategic and tactical decisions are made.

by Chris Hafner on May 19, 2010 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

Felix Ks and luck

Jeff mentions that even with 6 Ks in 6 innings, Hernandez’s hits allowed didn’t seem like bad luck. His K rate per batters faced is a bit more relevant. Although King Felix isn’t the problem, as Jeff notes.

by wobatus on May 19, 2010 12:57 PM PDT reply actions  

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