The Best We Can Do With What We Have
by Jeff Sullivan on May 17, 2010 3:13 PM PDT
in Miscellaneous
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PrintAlternate title: Holy Shit Guys You Better Do Better
| C | Bard | B-C | Johnson | SP | Lee | RP | Aardsma |
| 1B | Kotchman | B-OF | Langerhans | SP | Felix | RP | League |
| 2B | Figgins | B-IF | Hannahan | SP | Vargas | RP | Kelley |
| SS | Wilson | B-Bat | Sweeney | SP | Fister | RP | Texeira |
| 3B | Lopez | Figurehead | Griffey | SP | RRS | RP | Lowe |
| LF | Saunders | RP | Snell | ||||
| CF | Gutierrez | ||||||
| RF | Ichiro | ||||||
| DH | Bradley |
Nothing groundbreaking or even particularly original in here. This is just to answer the question of what I'd do if I were in charge of the team and had to operate within the constraints of reality. Jack Hannahan brings his uninspiring AAA performance up as the infield reserve, Josh Bard starts getting more playing time, and the bullpen shifts back to six men, saying farewell to two nobodies in the process.
That's really it. And then I come to some understanding with Griffey whereby he goes on the DL and I fill his spot with a righty who can play a lot of positions. I know Dave likes Ryan Raburn, who fits the mold. Ryan Doumit does, too. And others. I don't make a move for anybody sexy, because this club isn't in position to trade for anybody sexy, because anybody sexy would cost to much for a team in our position to acquire. The Mariners are 14-23 and chasing three teams. Now isn't the time to make a big splash.
If Griffey's unwilling to do what's best for the team - that is, go away - then I either launch a PR crusade against the selfish son of a bitch, or I attempt to come to the same understanding with Sweeney. Sweeney still has some life in his bat, but we can find comparable or superior life in a guy who can play the field as well. And if Sweeney's unwilling, then I just cut him, because I'd rather deal with the backlash from cutting Sweeney than the backlash from cutting Ken Griffey Jr.
As for Erik Bedard, I'd deal with that when the time arrived, but I'd have my eye on Ian Snell as the next to go.
The bottom line? There are moves that could be made to maximize the current roster - easy moves, in-house moves - but all the maximizing in the world doesn't change the fact that, more than anything else, these guys need to start playing like we know they can play. Whether it be bad luck, bad performance, or a combination of the two, Kotchman, Figgins, Lopez, and Bradley need to start getting hits, and we need our catchers and shortstops to quit being total black holes.
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Have to ask why you think Bard will be better than Rob Johnson
Lesser of two evils or do you think Bard is significantly better? If they are pretty close to the same and you think Johnson has a future on the team then he should be getting the majority of playing time, right?
by Edgar for Pres on May 17, 2010 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions
In my head I actually have them at a roughly 50/50 split
They’re pretty similar, and while neither offers anything good behind the plate, I like that Bard can switch-hit.
by Jeff Sullivan on May 17, 2010 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions
The thing I like best about Josh Bard is that he's Not Rob Johnson.
by Jeff Nye on May 17, 2010 4:32 PM PDT up reply actions 19 recs
I'm glad you like it, but Eyebrows is right.
Rec it or don’t rec it, but talking about rec-ing it doesn’t add much to the conversation.
Amen, brother.
Rob Johnson was behind 9/11
by I Lick Squirrels on May 17, 2010 6:30 PM PDT up reply actions
He was one of my favorites when he was on the Padres.
I really thought he might break out and be a league-average bat at the catcher position after his 2007 season. I didn’t realize he was already 29 at that point.
Heck people who are blocked in the minor leagues on other teams would be huge boosts
Kia’ahue, Alex Gordon, Chris Ianetta would all provide upgrades to DH/BIF/C.
But yeah also Bard uber alles.
by ManifestDestiny on May 17, 2010 3:16 PM PDT reply actions
Snyder probably won't be available till the deadline, or if by some miracle that the DBacks are contending, until the offseason.
By then it’ll be too late.
You're dead to me.
Montero isn't supposed to be back until mid to late June as it is.
I would also think they’re gonna ease him back in considering the severity of the injury, so you’re talking a few more weeks on top of that.
You're dead to me.
Well, they did send him to AAA in order to keep playing Miguel Olivo, so there must be something going on there.
Mostly, we have no idea who is and who isn’t available either way.
Isn't Alex Gordon a former top prospect at 3B?
Do you think he still has star potential, is a bust, or is headed for the Kotchman zone?
by Jon S. on May 17, 2010 5:21 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I hear what you're saying...
but I think Kotchman can be pretty good if he hits the ball in the air for once in his life. In all honestly, I’d rather see a popups than groundouts from Kotchman. Then at least you know he’s trying to play to his strengths.
by Jon S. on May 17, 2010 5:27 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
So you're saying he's not a bust as long as he hits the ball better.
You might want to rethink your stance.
...and now I'm here
I'm saying he should try for a different batted ball profile.
This is the same point Dave made at ussmariner.
What you’re saying is you either didn’t read my comment or didn’t understand. Either way, it’s you, not me who doesn’t know what I’m talking about.
by Jon S. on May 17, 2010 5:58 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I'm going to go out on a limb
and say that most likely Kotchman isn’t saying “Holy yes! I should totally hit into a double play right now!” What Dave said is that IF he hits in the air, THEN he’s better. Or “Hey, if he’s hitting in the air, maybe he’s better.” Not “Maybe he should choose to hit home runs now.”
...and now I'm here
Oh SNAP
Check it out, I’m right again.
...and now I'm here
You're right.
Dave never said he should try for a different batted ball profle. He merely insinuated that that’s what he was trying and that it was working.
Also, you don’t need to be a dick. It’s possible to make your point courteously. I’ve even seen you do it before.
by Jon S. on May 17, 2010 9:48 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
"What you’re saying is you either didn’t read my comment or didn’t understand. Either way, it’s you, not me who doesn’t know what I’m talking about."
Guess which one of these comments came first?
As I mentioned below, if you want me to be respectful of you, you should probably not start off with some holier than thou attitude from the get go. You need to earn respect here, not expect it, especially if you’re not willing to provide the same level of courtesy with your own comments.
...and now I'm here
I apologize
I got offended by your oversimplification of my stance. You said “better”, I said “higher”. Still, I should have been more civil.
by Jon S. on May 17, 2010 10:56 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I would strongly recommend Sec 108's fanpost idea.
I think it’s clear that these topics generate discussion, which is the entire purpose of the fanpost. Plus it will give you an opportunity to lay out your thoughts all at once, which will make it easier to show specific points. I think you can combine both your thoughts on Kotchman and Bradley (though most importantly the Bradley/Sweeney topic) if you like, that way you don’t have to create two fanposts to discuss both points, but at least that way everything can be in one centralized location.
...and now I'm here
Also, a GB% of over 50% for a slow, pull-happy lefty with power is a complete waste.
It may work for a slap-hitting speedster like Ichiro, but not Kotchman. Someone really needs to tell him he’s doing it wrong.
by Jon S. on May 17, 2010 5:45 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Kotchman was good in 2007 with a GB% of 50.6
by Jeff Sullivan on May 17, 2010 5:47 PM PDT up reply actions
That's the lowest mark of his career.
More evidence that less groundballs = more success for Kotchman.
by Jon S. on May 17, 2010 6:00 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Right...
but again, maybe he CAN’T hit the ball in the air consistently, which would be why he’s a bust.
Also, players with old player skillset (slow, walks) tend to not do well as they age (see: Davis, Alvin, Sexson, Richie and Grieve, Ben), so the time for Kotchman to show he’s more than a 1-1.5 WAR hitter may actually be past. What we see may be what we get.
by eponymous_coward on May 17, 2010 6:15 PM PDT up reply actions
It's not "Maybe He Can't."
It’s “He Can’t.” None of these players are choosing to hit ground balls, with the exception of maybe Ichiro. They are choosing to hit the ball hard, and the ball goes where it goes.
If Kotchman is able to learn how to hit the ball in the air, he can do very well. Which, again is saying “If he learns how to hit better, he’ll be better.” The same is true of literally every “Bust” player in the world. Guess what?! If Halman learns how to hit breaking balls and gets better pitch selection, he’ll be great! Or if Willie Bloomquist learns to hit for power, he might be awesome!
It’s a stupid argument to say he should choose to do something he’s not in control of. Yes, if he learns to hit better he’s better. No shit. The same is true for every player in baseball. Can they do it? Sometimes. Most of the time they can’t.
...and now I'm here
Well...
there’s limited evidence he can do better at hitting flyballs. But it’s limited and outweighed by the rest of his career.
I don’t usually like to write off players at 27, but I think it’s about time to for Kotchman, given he’s on his 4th organization.
by eponymous_coward on May 17, 2010 6:43 PM PDT up reply actions
No, there's a limited amount of evidence that he was hitting better.
NOT that he “could do better.” It wasn’t a choice he made, and he’s not doing poorly now simply because he’s lazy, bored, tired, not trying, etc. The Mariners wanted him to fix his swing because he was hitting the ball and the ground. He tried, or he didn’t, we don’t really know, and he got different results for a short period of time that didn’t last. He didn’t “choose” anything, just like he’s not choosing to hit the ball on the ground now.
...and now I'm here
You realize you're arguing with someone who basically agrees with you, right?
Please show me where I said “choose” in any of my posts.
by eponymous_coward on May 17, 2010 6:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Not arguing.
I’m agreeing/augmenting more forcefully. There is almost literally no doubt of this, and I want to make sure that Jon S. doesn’t take your words and spin them.
...and now I'm here
Well, my take is as follows.
At this point, it’s just as likely that Mike Carp finds another gear in his bat as Casey Kotchman, though holy crap is he not hitting in Tacoma.
by eponymous_coward on May 17, 2010 7:12 PM PDT up reply actions
This post is a little disturbing.
Being an ass to someone because they are willing to have an open minded conversation with me? I hope I’m overreacting.
by Jon S. on May 17, 2010 10:52 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I think he may be taking his dislike of me out on you.
I’m really sorry. You don’t deserve that.
by Jon S. on May 17, 2010 10:02 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
You're probably right on that.
I hope you’re not, for the sake of the team. But I feel like you probably are.
by Jon S. on May 17, 2010 9:55 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
We need 07-08 Bradley.
2009 Bradley doesn’t help us much.
by Jon S. on May 17, 2010 5:24 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Yeah a .340 wOBA would be terrible right now.
by Mariner John on May 17, 2010 5:46 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm really starting to think that Bradley beat Jon S's dog to death or something.
by Jeff Nye on May 17, 2010 5:47 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'd rather you not concern yourself with my opinion on Bradley if you can't be bothered to figure out what it is.
This is the cliff notes version of my opinion on Bradley:
I think he’s very talented. I think he’s our best DH option for the future. I haven’t been impressed with his performance since 2008. I do think he deserves every opportunity to show he can still hit at a high level. I don’t think he should get those PAs at the expense of a more productive.
Is anything I said unreasonable or at odds with what I’ve said in the past?
by Jon S. on May 17, 2010 7:10 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
You're doing a terrible job acknowledging the more valid opinions of others.
Instead of whining about being misunderstood, you should try harder to be right, or at the very least explain your theory of why other people’s responses to you are incorrect rather than go on some “I know what I’m talking about” quest to act like a victim of everyone else’s misunderstanding when all available evidence points to you being wrong and your thoughts on this being incorrect.
...and now I'm here
I know it's more "fun" to have a conversation with a bunch of people who agree with you, but that's not how things work.
Not everyone who has a dissenting opinion is whining. What you’re doing is refusing to acknowledge that a dissenting opinion has the right to exist. I accept your opinion that Bradley is immediately our best option at DH. That is your right to feel that way and your plan of action may be the right one. I just disagree and am willing to defend that opinion with facts.
I welcome a fact based discussion on this topic. I have had more than a few in past threads. This is not one of them. If you or anyone else want to challenge my opinion, you’d better bring something better to the table than “everyone else agrees with me”.
And please, read the other conversations before jumping into this discussion. I’m really getting tired of explaining that Sweeney has a career-long reverse platoon split and that Sweeney and Bradley provided the same level of production in 2009.
by Jon S. on May 17, 2010 9:17 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
If you would look down, or up, at all of the other places where I already responded to you
maybe you wouldn’t sound like such a whiny bitch. In the interim, you should try being more right, since you clearly are ignoring every valid point that disagrees with your sentiment in order to complain about the same inaccurate numbers that have now been addressed some dozen times.
...and now I'm here
Since I'm feeling less annoyed at the moment.
I don’t care about his reverse platoon split. It’s a small number, it didn’t exist in 2008 or 2007 (before we brought him here to platoon) and he’s now older, which gives us even less reason to believe that somehow he’ll keep it up. In 2009, his platoon split was helped in large part by a ridiculous .365 BABIP, which was well below his career norms, as well as a small sample. You can argue – or believe – that the the small sample was indicative of his overall abilities, but to do that you have to also ignore both his overall production, as well as the likelihood of Sweeney having a better season than the younger, healthier, and stronger Milton Bradley.
The fact that Sweeney did really well against righties in 2005 is not important for how we address his skills today.
...and now I'm here
by CapSea on May 17, 2010 9:28 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
We have conversations all the time where we disagree
(Well not conversations, I don’t know what you call it over the internet.)
The general requirement is only that the arguments for both sides be reasonably thought out. Not wanting Bradley to hit when only two people on this team are doing better than him is not reasonable, it’s stupid.
You know why it looks like we’re all a bunch of group-think sheep? Because we have hashed out this argument a million times already, and it’s pretty clear who is right.
And yes, I'll respond to your thoughts as follows:
1) So your only issue is how Milton Bradley did in 2009. Yet Mike Sweeney had a WORSE 2009, so your opinion on this makes no sense.
2) In addition to the fact that Bradley did better in 2009 than Sweeney, which already invalidates every point you made, Sweeney also platooned, which drives up his numbers. Bradley didn’t, and STILL did better.
3) Up until like 5 days ago, Sweeney was hitting worse than Bradley, so you’re basing your entire opinion of Sweeney’s 2010 on what he’s done in about 5 days in a sample that is still smaller than Bradley’s.
So to summarize:
1) There is no evidence that Sweeney is more productive.
2) Sweeney did worse than Bradley in 2009
3) You’re wrong. Again.
...and now I'm here
by CapSea on May 17, 2010 7:27 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
Again, read the discussions.
Bullet points 1 and 2 have been addressed for days now.
Point 3 is valid and is one of the reasons why it wouldn’t hurt to wait to annoint Bradley the DH. It may only take a few games for him to show he’s still got it and should be the full time DH.
It’s really kind of sad to see how emotional some people are getting over such a small difference in opinion. The popular opinion and my own don’t differ that much. My problem is there is so much dismissiveness from people who obviously haven’t taken part in the whole conversation.
by Jon S. on May 17, 2010 9:28 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Maybe if you were less self righteous with your answers we would respond without hostility.
As it is, you’ve shown no respect for a community to which you have only just now introduced yourself, and therefore you deserve no respect from any of the long term posters here. Show more respect, be less of an ass when you respond to people that disagree with you – especially if they are being disrespectful themselves – and others will be less of an ass to you.
...and now I'm here
Sec 108's idea about a Fanpost is a really good one.
While I wouldn’t presume to speak for the mods here, I don’t know that you’re accomplishing anything by just telling people to “go look at the other discussions we’ve been having about this”.
A Fanpost would consolidate the whole discussion in one place, and keep it out of only very marginally related threads like this one.
2009 Bradley would be the third best hitter on the team
Oddly enough, 2010 Bradley is also the third best hitter on the team right now, bad luck and all.
If a .340 wOBA is acceptable at DH, why are we so anxious to get rid of Sweeney?
The very same Sweeney who posted a wRC+ in 09 ~equal to Bradley despite facing a platoon disadvantage for most of the season. The same Sweeney currently sporting a .352 wOBA.
I’m all open to Bradley showing he’s the better option at DH. I’m confused as to why everyone just assumes he is. I need to see him hit well before I jump on that bandwagon.
by Jon S. on May 17, 2010 6:11 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
A: 2010 is SSS Theatre, B: Bradley was better in 2009, 2008, 2007, 2006.
Given the 32 year old who has ~1500 plate appearances of being the better hitter and the 36 year old with 50 PAs of being the better hitter, sorry, I pick the 32 year old. This isn’t even counting the fact that C: you can actually occasionally play Bradley in the field, unlike Sweeney (thus giving a regular a pseudo-day off as a DH).
by eponymous_coward on May 17, 2010 6:20 PM PDT up reply actions
People have explained this to you in three separate comment threads that I can immediately think of.
By now you either get it or you don’t.
Everyone is anxious to get rid of Sweeney because:
He got that wOBA in a platoon.
His back is screwed up and makes it so he can’t play every day, even as a designated hitter.
The Mariners are already stuck with Griffey.
Sweeney can’t play defense at any position.
I hope that’s everything.
I can't resist clicking "Rec" when I see a post with four recs already.
by thehemogoblin on May 17, 2010 6:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Sweeney has a reverse platoon split for his career.
Facing lefties most of the time did him no favors last year. Jeff and I discussed this in an earlier thread.
As for his back, that’s definitely a concern. If he can’t play and help the team on a regular basis, he has to be released or go on the 60 day DL.
We may or may not be stuck with Griffey. It’s a fair assumption that he will likely be here for the rest of the season, but as Jeff said in this post, it’s not a given and our team will be better if we can ditch Griffey and keep Sweeney. One of them does have to go, and making it Griffey without upsetting the public is probably one of Jack Z’s biggest tests as GM.
Sweeney definitely can’t play defense. But he has a plus bat (one of the few on this team) and we need him in the lineup in the short term. Until a combination of Saunders/Bradley or Langerhans/Bradley gives us a better chance to win than a combination of Langerhans/Sweeney, Saunders/Sweeney or Bradley/Sweeney, Sweeney should be our DH. I like the lineups with Bradley at DH, and I think that’s what we should have at the end of the season provided Milton plays nice and plays well.
So, for what feels like the hundredth time: I want Milton to succeed and be our DH. I just don’t think it’s a given that he will hit better than Sweeney.
by Jon S. on May 17, 2010 8:29 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Do yourself a favor and put a Fanpost together showing how Sweeney has a plus bat.
From my position the last time Sweeney achieved the “HOLY SHIT GET HIS BAT IN THE LINEUP!” level was 2005. For Milton Bradley it was 2008.
You keep using strange caveats to your arguments about how Bradley has to prove something to you. Show those of us who need numbers to understand your words where you are coming from.
by Sec 108 on May 17, 2010 8:50 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Hey, if you find the link for the earlier thread, I just might actually believe what you're dishing.
I can't resist clicking "Rec" when I see a post with four [of them] already.
by thehemogoblin on May 17, 2010 10:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Recent evidence suggests you are not open to much of anything and that your reading comprehension skills are low.
...and now I'm here
by CapSea on May 17, 2010 6:22 PM PDT up reply actions 9 recs
You're not actually reading these threads, are you?
by Jon S. on May 17, 2010 8:33 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Of the two of us, I'm pretty sure it's not my ability to read that's in doubt.
...and now I'm here
He's reading this one all right.
I’m not so sure about the other ones you’re talking about. Can you provide links?
8 recs? Really guys?
Maybe Jon S. isn’t making his case very well, but there’s a lot of far more useful and constructive comments being thrown around. This comment looks like trolling.
No, he's making his point just fine.
It’s just that his point is wrong. He’s only supported it with stats and “facts” he’s twisted (knowingly or not). He’s completely unwilling to acknowledge that perhaps he is wrong, and instead is playing the martyr by accusing everyone else of being unwilling to acknowledge that he just has his own opinion. Ok, it’s fine if he has opinion. But his opinion is wrong and unfounded, and if he has a problem with people telling him that, that’s no one’s problem but his own.
by Matt Erickson on May 17, 2010 11:27 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
I've been a cranky asshole going on 38 years now so I may not be the best source for this one,
but from my perspective Jon S. does deserve such a comment and this is why. He is basically beating a drum loudly in the center of the drum with no discernable tempo.
When people ask him to work an actual rhythm or to vary the tone and volume all he does in response is point out that when he first walked into the room he was in fact beating the drum loudly then with no discernable tempo. We already knew this and are not impressed by his drumming acumen at this time.
Aside from the points everyone else has made, personally I rec comments I agree with.
This prevents the piling on effect with numerous repetitious comments. This is a policy that has been suggested several times, I believe at least a few times by one mod. Regardless, it is a policy I agree with.
Otherwise, if you wanted a comment that would not be appreciated I could speak my mind in a public fashion. This is not desirable, the rec is better.
Regicidal?
Someone alert Scotland Yard, the Queen is in danger!
by Aaron Campeau on May 17, 2010 6:59 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
Yeah, crazy huh?
Have the ability to allow the ball into your catcher’s mitt and you too can be a catcher for the Seattle Mariners.
Because we’re rebels. Accurate, intelligent, introspective rebels. And damn proud of it my friend. - CapSea
Preserved In All His Greatness - R.I.P. The Reignman 1989 to 1997
What is the understanding to come to with Sweeney?
“You’re probably better than Griffey but well… you know.” I can see that happening, but I’m not sure its an understanding, per se.
Basically the best-case scenario is that we get one of them to go on the 60-day DL with something
by Jeff Sullivan on May 17, 2010 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions
I think the best case scenario is we guilt Griffey into retiring within the next week
But barring that yeah.
Somehow getting rid of Sweeney is probably better though.
Since he’d also be the go-to guy for quotes about how unfair it was that Griffey didn’t get to end on his terms.
Or so I’d guess.
I hate stupid trade ideas on blogs, but I wonder if there isn’t a market for Sweeney to be traded for NOTHING/Cash to someone else as the 25th guy. Or, perhaps, a Garko 2 situation.
If we've learned anything in the last few days, it's that we want Griffey to be accused of something absolutely heinous and then forced out.
That way, Sweeney will have no choice but to homer daily and continue making asinine comments after the game about it his fallen comrade.
As far as I know, we didn't do it.
We just found it and saved copies of it around here for posterity.
...and now I'm here
A strategically placed banana peel or two
Could do nasty things to a fragile back or hamstring.
by AltCtrlDelete on May 17, 2010 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well, this is the organization that used acute suckitis for both Cirillo AND Player A
so yeah, I see this as an option.
Bone went on the DL in 2001, too, before getting a farewell tour so it’s not like ZOMG WE ARE SO DISSING JUNIOR by telling him he can have the summer off.
by eponymous_coward on May 17, 2010 6:22 PM PDT up reply actions
Our catchers are _not_ black holes!
For one, black holes tend to be pretty good at catching things.
by craig3410 on May 17, 2010 3:36 PM PDT reply actions 9 recs
White dwarfs?
Adam Moore’s a big dude.
I thought you were talking about David Eckstein for a minute
Hell, I bet he could play catcher better than RJ. And he has a wOBA of .325. Plus, my wife thinks he’s cute.
Figgins is hurting us worst of all
Is anyone aware how wasted Ichiro’s start is? He is having his best start (thru May 16) since 2002 and Chone keeps knocking him into double plays.
by God of Biscuits on May 17, 2010 3:38 PM PDT reply actions
Keeps?
Three GIDP’s for Figgins this season. Check your stats before quoting them.
by Matt Erickson on May 17, 2010 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions
You beat me to it
He has GIDP 1 every 54 PAs this year.
Career average is 1 every 79 PAs.
This is also the epitome of small sample size. He may very well exceed his career high of 9 (back in 2005), but 3 is not a large number. Especially not compared to Jose Lopez (6) or Kotchman (4).
You should be yelling at Lopez for wasting Ichiro’s start. At least Figgins is walking.
Jesus fucking Christ.
Awful.
Milton Bradley apologist
by sanford_and_son on May 18, 2010 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions
I was expectin your faux-Griffey retirement post so when I saw the alternative I burst out laughing,
That being said, wow we can do so much better than this.
You got slurved!
I'm new
so I’m not sure if this is a thread allowing us to talk about realistic roster changes (as Jeff discussed) or if that would be too much like rosterbation. If this is a stupid question I’ll go back in my hole and lurk some more before posting.
No matter where you go, there you are.
by KC Mariner on May 17, 2010 3:44 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I'd like to keep it as rosterbation-free as possible
by Jeff Sullivan on May 17, 2010 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions
But it's okay to talk about realistic solutions
even though I recognize this is a slippery slope that I will regret allowing.
by Jeff Sullivan on May 17, 2010 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
That might be too much pressure for a newbie
but I’ll try to keep your imminent regret as painless as possible.
No matter where you go, there you are.
Whatever in house solutions are available, doesn't it all hinge on the manager utilizing them effectively?
Or is that a direction you’d prefer the thread not to take.
Naturally, but for all intents and purposes we should consider this a Wak-free thread
Nothing makes people exaggerate the effect of a manager than a nice prolonged slump.
by Jeff Sullivan on May 17, 2010 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions
If you're looking to make a slightly bigger splash than someone like Raburn or Doumit, who do you go after?
Also, I’m thinking that RR-S isn’t long for the rotation, and may not even last until Bedard is back. Who would you plug into the #5 spot instead?
I'd probably keep RRS there and skip his spot when possible
by Jeff Sullivan on May 17, 2010 5:00 PM PDT up reply actions
That's not a bad idea, either.
(by the way, my pet idea is Dan Uggla but I don’t want to rosterbate all over the place)
Do we really have the chips to make a big splash?
I just can’t see us going after a “name” player unless it’s some one like Bradley who’s damaged goods and/or the other team bites some of the salary. I know we have some promising names in the minors, but there doesn’t seem to be enough there to trade away without seriously setting us back.
No matter where you go, there you are.
We do.
It would definitely be a quantity over quality situation, but a few guys on the major league roster could have value, too.
I guess I shouldn't under estimate Jack Z
and any speculation would be dangerously close to rosterbation, but I could envision him making a creative trade that leaves us looking much better.
No matter where you go, there you are.
The "alternative title" made me laugh.
Considering how dismal this season has become, levity is important. Thank you, Jeff.
I'd rather have White than Snell in the bullpen, but was that more of a preemptive "Wak, you can't put him in, he's not on the roster" move?
I can't resist clicking "Rec" when I see a post with four recs already.
I think I'd rather have Snell than While or RRS in the bullpen
And I’d rather have RRS in the bullpen than White. I don’t mind White but I think we have other RP that just have more talent.
by Edgar for Pres on May 17, 2010 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions
I'd definitely rather have RRS in there than either of the two right-handers.
I think his curve would play well out of the bullpen. I just don’t ever see Snell being able to get out left-handed hitters on a remotely consistent basis. He walks 5.5 lefties per nine innings over his career. That is unfathomably ugly.
I can't resist clicking "Rec" when I see a post with four recs already.
by thehemogoblin on May 17, 2010 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah Snell would be a lot better fit if we didn't have a ton of RHP in the bullpen already.
by Edgar for Pres on May 17, 2010 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Lowe is already a better righty specialist
Which is probably how he and Snell should be used at this point.
Can somebody give me a good reason why Tui should be on the team this year?
I just don’t see it.
by Edgar for Pres on May 17, 2010 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions
No.
There is absolutely zero reason for him to be on this team.
by seattlesundevil on May 17, 2010 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Community impact? Merchandise sales? Family name?
Wait, who are we talking about again?
I can't resist clicking "Rec" when I see a post with four recs already.
by thehemogoblin on May 17, 2010 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Are you local?
I can't resist clicking "Rec" when I see a post with four recs already.
by thehemogoblin on May 17, 2010 7:03 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Dave Niehaus.
Hard work never killed nobody, but I won't take my chances.
Hopefully the Mariners don't drag out their decisions to the point where it doesn't even matter.
We might already be there now.
They're only 5.5 games back. I know it could get out of hand in a hurry, but I trust that Jack is dealing with these issues as fast as possible.
Fuck the Angels
The item that keeps me from lamenting too much is the number of games left within our own division.
Nothing makes me feel better than the opportunity hang a few losses on Oakland/Angels/Rangers.
I must say, this post made me feel a good bit better about all this.
Whether that’s warranted or not is something I won’t worry about right now.
Did all the projections think we'd have both Sweeney and Griffey on the bench?
And didn’t we figure it was Moore or Johnson with Bard, not the two of them together with Bard in AAA? And we figured on Cliff Lee starting with us…
We have the same talent, but I don’t think we’d have the same projection.
Yeah I was wondering about the talent
Do we think we need to lower our expectations for players who have been performing badly or is it completely all just luck. I doubt its all just luck but if we are going to go back and revise our true talent estimations how much should we decrease them. Did we overestimate this team’s true talent by 1 win, 2 wins or 5 wins?
by Edgar for Pres on May 17, 2010 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions
If you think your projections were not accurate to begin with, then you would want to change them.
If you think they were accurate, then what’s happened so far this season wouldn’t change them all that much.
For the most part, I don’t think it’s much about over- or underestimating the talent level of the team — there’s always a lot of uncertainty with that anyway. They just haven’t been producing.
by nathaniel dawson on May 18, 2010 5:29 PM PDT up reply actions
No Saunders?
Fuck that.
SEAN WHITE IS THE WORST PERSON EVER
by I Lick Squirrels on May 17, 2010 4:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Isn't Sweeney's back a little tight?
And Langerhans has a sore elbow or something.
by Jeff Sullivan on May 17, 2010 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions
I hear Sweeney's back is so tight that he might need to go on the 60 day DL
by Jeff Nye on May 17, 2010 5:06 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Holy God that is a terrible lineup.
So unavailable for various reasons: Wilson, Bradley, Sweeney, Langerhans? Fuck man. Fuck.
From Stone:
“Speaking of which, Mike Sweeney is still out with a sore back. Mariners manager Don Wakamatsu said Sweeney wanted to play, but they’re going to keep him out one more day just to be safe. He may be available to pinch-hit.”
“In other injury news, Ryan Langerhans still has stiffness in his left elbow but is available to play. Rob Johnson (sore back) was again out of action but Wakamatsu hopes to use him tomorrow to catch Felix Hernandez.”
So no Sweeney, Langerhans, or Johnson
So the bench is Josh Wilson and Saunders.
And I wish both of them were starting
Instead of Tui and Griffey.
But then again, if you don’t start Griffey, there is only one positional sub available.
Correction, Josh Wilson is starting.
So the bench is Saunders.
I wish it were Tui, but at least Griffey starting at DH makes marginally more sense for the single game.
Though it doesn’t excuse the joke of a roster that created this situation.
Drayer says Wak says Langerhans elbow might be a bit of a bone chip, possibly available for pinch hitting
Johnson & Sweeney both have the back tightness, and they are trying to give both of them extra time, as they want Rob for Felix and with Sweeney they can take advantage of a couple of leftys.
no word on Saunders, other than they want Tui to get some at-bats.
You know who else wants Tui to get some at-bats?
Gio Gonzalez.
I can't resist clicking "Rec" when I see a post with four recs already.
by thehemogoblin on May 17, 2010 6:11 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Wak had said when Saunders came up that after last year's struggles against lefties he didn't want to play him against too many LHPs this time around.
I imagine that’s the justification for Tui over Saunders today with Langerhans hurt.
by drblacknwhite on May 17, 2010 6:14 PM PDT up reply actions
So Dave is propositioning for the acquisition of Ryan Raburn.
I sure hope Jack Z looks up USSM and reads it as “Ryan Braun”
Wak's counter-solution is apparently to keep hitting Figgins second and instead not play Saunders and Langerhans who have shown life with their bats and defense
Additionally opting to bat Lopez 4th, Griffey 5th, and put Tui in LF where he has hardly ever played.
Believe Big!
What about current performace justifies any of these decisions?
Aren’t belief systems supposed to be grounded on things worth believing in? Such as Michael Saunders and Ryan Langerhans being better baseball players than Tui?
Don Wakamatsu is just another generic MLB manager. I thought maybe we had something special
in Wak, but his decision making this season and the reasoning behind it has me disgusted. I see nothing unique or special about this man. Couldn’t care less if he was replaced tomorrow.
by Rudy4three on May 17, 2010 5:40 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don't think we can nail down for sure what we have with Don Wakamatsu.
It is, after all, only his second year on the job. And he must have been doing something right if it took this long before fans started turning on him.
I think he is exceptional with his personnel management, but I just don't think he's good with strategy at all.
In other words, he either needs to be a bench coach or needs a bench coach who knows how to manage the team on the field, which would enable him to worry about other things.
I can't resist clicking "Rec" when I see a post with four recs already.
by thehemogoblin on May 17, 2010 5:46 PM PDT up reply actions
This really reminds me of how hard it is to go from a .500 team to a contender.
I know it was talked about both here and USSM, but going from last year to a playoff race is a pretty big jump. I still think despite a couple of moves (I think we know what couple) the front office did a pretty good job this past off season based on what they knew then and the options available to them. There aren’t a lot of options in house, but more often then not this front office is going to make the right choice even if it seems like the choice is pretty obvious to all of us first.
No matter where you go, there you are.
I think it's important to remember, when criticizing the pace at which moves do or don't get made
that we’re at a significantly further remove from these guys than the people filling out the lineup card or making the roster decisions.
It’s easy for me to say “yeah, Tui sucks, he should never get a major league at-bat again” because I haven’t and likely never will meet the guy, and won’t ever have to say that to his face.
Whereas Jack and Wak need to see these guys every day and be able to interact with them as a human being.
It’s not an excuse, per se; just something to think about.
Totally agree.
Didn’t mean to sound like I was griping too much about the pace. Jack and Wak are spending each moment thinking about the problems that quite frankly are problems any of us can escape by turning off the television or computer. It is easy to complain about Wak, but he’s the one who has to look at the guys in the locker room and make decisions and deal with the real life effects it has on the team.
No matter where you go, there you are.
Why can't they all just be robots?
by Cantu Easley Winn on May 17, 2010 5:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Because we would spend our lives
inventing new acronyms and formulas that annoy Jon Heyman and Murray Chase while never leaving our basements.
No matter where you go, there you are.
Remember when Lopez said he wanted to walk 50 times this year?
He’s on pace for 27.
He’s also swinging at balls more than his career average.
I don’t hate Lopez, and I want to like him after what I’ve seen him do defensively at 3B, but watching him bat this season is a test of my willingness to watch pathetic things.
After what Drayer wrote
… Why isn’t he batting second? Normally, it shouldn’t matter where someone hits in the order, but apparently it does to Loafie.
by Cantu Easley Winn on May 17, 2010 6:28 PM PDT up reply actions
He's historically hit best in the 5th slot
Jose’s career tOPS+ is 133 batting 5th. 2nd, 3rd, and 4th in the line-up have all been fine for him too (108, 104, and 108 respectively).
Though I haven’t gone through to see if it’s based on hitting is specific slots during his “good” seasons.
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