Enough!
by Matthew on Apr 30, 2010 10:58 PM PDT
in Seattle Mariners Game Recaps
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PrintI'm sure Jeff will have a recap later on, or you can just read the live blog that he did. Also, I'm sure a lot of the good from tonight (the pitching, Ichiro) will be lost to venting over some reasonable things to vent about. Consider this a thread to vent in. I'll start.
I don't like reactionary cries. No, the team shouldn't be completely dismembered. No, Eric Byrnes shouldn't be released. For one thing, we do actually need a RH OF on the bench and you really don't want that to be Tui. Did he blow that play in the 11th? Yes, I have no idea what he was thinking there. I also don't know if that was a safety squeeze or a suicide squeeze call. Without the benefit of knowing the play, I'm not sure who the entirety of the blame falls upon. Maybe it was a safety squeeze, Byrnes laid off and Ichiro kept going when he saw Treanor drop the ball.
So this might seem contradictory coming after that, but I would really like the management of this team to get reactionary, so long as they get reactionary in the right way. Mike Sweeney needs to go. Ken Griffey Jr needs to be demoted out of a full time role. Milton Bradley needs to DH, Jack Hannahan and Ryan Langerhans need to return and the team needs to ditch the 7th reliever. Jose Lopez needs to not be batting 4th. Things need to be shaken up, but they need to be shaken up smartly and right now I'm not sure I have faith in the management to do that.
I get that managers, both general and field, will take longer to make seemingly obvious roster moves than most of us would care for. They have exercise more caution because of the way they come under scrutiny for their moves. Stasis is a lot safer for your job. However, three flippin' games into the season this team ditched the 11-man pitching staff and DFA'd Ryan Langerhans. Three games! Milton Bradley got five games as the cleanup hitter and was demoted. I can understand Wakamatsu wanting to take the pressure off Milton for awhile, but it's off Wak! He's producing now and we need that production where it can do the most benefit.
Jack Zduriencik, Don Wakamatsu, you've made quick decisions before. Please, make some more now and make the right ones this time. This team has potential and it was a winnable road in front of it. You're like a hockey team with a 3-0 lead at home and a chance to force game 7 where you would be the top remaining seed in the playoffs if you win. Don't blow this chance. Don't blow this because you held onto Mike Sweeney and Ken Griffey Jr for too long. Neither of those guys were in your plans, Zduriencik. We know this. You didn't build this team for them. You built it for Felix, Lee, Ichiro, Figgins, Guti, the defense and a flame throwing bullpen. Don't let DH be this team's Achilles heel. You'll regret it if you do.
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Based on the various statements Wak has made regarding each of these issues, I just don't have any confidence that he's going to make the right moves
He just doesn’t get it, and I really hope it doesn’t take us losing more games like this one for him to wake up.
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by Griffin Cooper on Apr 30, 2010 11:05 PM PDT reply actions
Needing a right handed outfielder isn't a reason not to release Byrnes
Replacement level OFs are not difficult to find
by Graham MacAree on Apr 30, 2010 11:07 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
And now I wish to hang him to death by his balls
by Graham MacAree on Apr 30, 2010 11:11 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Byrnes responsible for yet another popup.
...and now I'm here
by CapSea on May 1, 2010 1:00 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
We watch games to be entertained, no?
And we’re going to go for a RH replacement level OF anyway, why not have it be an entertaining what that Arizona is paying for?
Good point.
I guess I should change my views. Next time I go to a game I’ll look at it as if I’m going to a comedy show.
We watch games to see if our team wins the fucking game
Not to see if a player on our favorite team is legitimately stupid enough to not at least try to bunt on a suicide squeeze
DH is a great thing to have but a terrible thing to waste. We are wasting it on two old men who ground out every time. WE COULD HAVE HAD VLAD OR MATSUI!!!!!
Check out my Mariners blog at MarinerMayhem.com
We have Bradley
My Mariners blog SodoMojo, My Twitter Feed
by Griffin Cooper on Apr 30, 2010 11:09 PM PDT up reply actions
The Langerhans-Byrnes LF platoon with Bradley at DH sure makes a lot more sense
then the current configuration with Bradley forced to play LF almost daily, and the two old timers sucking up the joint at DH
It's almost like these are the easiest decisions in the world, but our management just WONT do them...
I mean what the hell? Is there anyone here who disagrees that your proposed actions aren’t the best way to go about things?
I can understand getting beat going all in on a pair of aces. Shit can happen.
But you don’t stop going all in on a pair of aces. This fucking team gets dealt a Q/J, and has a choice of suited or not, and decides to go with not. I don’t get it. Why would you ever do that.
Suited hands add 2% to a hand's WE
This is a move that will have a much more lasting impact then that. It’s a domino effect of keeping Bradley healthy, replacing a moderate LF with a very good one, giving us a platoon that can actually fucking hit, and putting our better hitters in position to actually get baserunners home.
Despite not running a precise analysis of the percentages.
My comment was basically an analogy for the team giving away tactical advantages. Any advantage however the size or percentage. Thank you for clarifying my anger induced inaccuracy. Personally I’m fairly aware of the basic moves this team can make to improve several areas of weakness.
Why can't Griffey just take the classy way out and retire
If he’s going to be this horrible in his farewell tour it’s just embarassing for him and detrimental to the teams success, it’s not really good for anyone to keep pretending like he’s still a pro baseball player.
by OlSalty on Apr 30, 2010 11:20 PM PDT reply actions 3 recs
Divish:
@TNTmariners Eric Byrnes stormed out of the clubhouse on his bicycle riding past the assembled media – I am not making this up
I appear to be posting in the wrong thread :(
by Aaron Campeau on Apr 30, 2010 11:22 PM PDT up reply actions
Can you "storm out" on a bicycle?
Do you just slam on the pedals loudly and ring the your bell with anger yelling ON YOUR LEFT!!!
...and now I'm here
by CapSea on May 1, 2010 1:02 AM PDT up reply actions 5 recs
The sad part is this.
Zduriencik constructed a team over the offseason to handle situations like the ones seen in this game. Griffey as the part-time DH, Bradley as the LF/DH, Byrnes as the LF vs. Lefties, Langerhans as the backup outfielder, Hannahan as the backup infielder. We were in good shape to only carry a 6-man bullpen.
Between spring training and the first week of the season, we went from that to carrying a Care Bear DH tandem, seven relief pitchers, Tui as a backup everything. Only one of those moves were due to injury.
This is a smart organization. They assembled a pretty decent roster. Certainly enough to contend in a wide open division. But ever since they kept Sweeney on board they’ve been trying like crazy to make this version of the roster work…and at the expense of almost everything else.
This is compounded by the fact that Wakamatsu is uncharacteristically sticking with a sub-optimal line-up in the name of showing a belief system behind Lopez and Griffey.
It’s baffling for certain, and I hope this issue gets resolved soon.
They are making players happy at the expense of the fans.
If I wanted to see a happy clubhouse lose without caring enough to do something about it, I’d go watch the Microsoftball team.
How much is the Manager to blame?
Some of my thoughts:
- He talks about his hitters pressing, but maybe that is a result of him pushing the aggressiveness on the base paths, the bunting, and all these risky plays like hit-and-runs or tonight’s suicide squeeze.
-Why don’t we have a guy on our bench that can come up and hit a sac fly?!
-God it’s a tough squad he has to work with on offense, but he’s not doing himself any favors by, dare I say, pressing with his tactics.
As soon as I write some of this I read USSM recap. I guess everyone but Don Wakamatsu notices this stuff. It seems like basic strategy that he over-think. Boy he loves his guys from last year. He pulled the plug on Kotch and Bradley in the middle of the order after just a few games. A lot of us never liked Snell, which I understand, but he basically said he is sticking with RRS over Snell because of familiarity with the team. I almost broke my TV when he pinch hit for Figgy with Griffey in Texas, that was bullshit (before Chone was even slumping). The only new guys he likes are League and Lee (who wouldn’t?). He’s too into this chemistry thing. Maybe Shawn Kelley didn’t build up enough good favor with Wak last year, so he was sent down? I know Colome has been endearing himself to the coaches like Sweeney. I hate when a manager sticks with favorites for emotional reasons.
by refuse2lose2010 on Apr 30, 2010 11:45 PM PDT reply actions
My issue with Wak is simply his lineup card. It's nonsensical and based totally on
showing his support for Griffey, and this silly “take the pressure off” of Bradley and Kotchman.
The roster configuration is on Jack. He made a bad move by bring Sweeney aboard, and the Byrnes roster spot isn’t looking so hot. Particularly given that Byrnes seems to keep coming up vs RH pitching.
Yeah but Sweeney is "Wak's Guy" and while he might talk over things with Z, he made those calls in Spring Training.
I’m pretty sure Wakamatsu is a big reason why Sweeney is on this team, and a big reason why he gets at-bats in important situations.
by refuse2lose2010 on May 1, 2010 12:11 AM PDT up reply actions
That is true
Wakamatsu and Sweeney got to know each other in Oakland. Apparently, Sweeney was a jolly and knowledgeable player and was a mental “lift” to a lot of the A’s players. But, that was a different kind of club than the 2010 Mariners…waaaaaaaaay different.
"I'm not going to comment on the cacophonous generation of ancillary noise". Ken Korach on the Tampa Bay indoor dome.
by One won lost won on May 1, 2010 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm trying to be realistic.
Griffey’s not getting released.
But if someone from LL kneecapped him, it would solve our problems!
I'd sleep at the Internet, but I've found servers don't make for good pillows.
by thehemogoblin on Apr 30, 2010 11:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes you're right. Goodbye Sweeney and much less at bats for Junior.
(Their replacements are nothing hot it has to be said though).
Langerhans is a legitimately decent baseball player
Sweeney and Junior are fucking abominations. The difference in seeing Langerhans (LF) and Bradley (DH) in a lineup as opposed to Bradley (LF) and Griffey (DH), over the course of about 90 games (which is about what you’d expect in terms of facing RHP), is about a 2.5-win differential.
(Leaving that on the table is FUCKING STUPID it has to be said about twenty-seven times though)
Well said Matthew.
And I’m just going to echo Dave’s sentiment, because he says things so much better than I could:
“Screw team chemistry – give me a team that can play baseball.”
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel, or the headlights of an oncoming train?
by Benne on Apr 30, 2010 11:59 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
Don gets attached to players. It's a weakness of his.
by refuse2lose2010 on May 1, 2010 12:06 AM PDT up reply actions
Do we know this to be true?
Or are we guessing this?
...and now I'm here
by CapSea on May 1, 2010 1:05 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
So I guess Paul Konerko hits homers off everyone? He has 11 all of a sudden.
Maybe I can forgive some of our pitches who he shelled last week.
by refuse2lose2010 on May 1, 2010 12:15 AM PDT reply actions
I'm trying to think of a good literary or historical analogy for what this game means at this point in our season.
Sort of a “all the folly was laid bare at this moment” type thing, but not a total disaster yet and hopefully something that will be a moment in the learning process. Ideas?
US Civil War? Antietam?
Bloodiest single day action of the war, McLellan removed from duty as general of the Army of the Potomac. 3 years later, Union wins?
I mean, no one’s getting fired (and we have no Halleck or Grant to come in and replace McLellan/Wak), but…a bloody, ugly day that’s still early in the process, plenty of time to fix the nonsense?
That's right Eric, storm out on that bicycle.
Ride down the street in the anger. But don’t forget to look behind your shoulder Eric. Don’t forget to look. BECAUSE I WILL BE RIGHT THERE! ALWAYS ONE STEP BEHIND YOU!
Because one day. One day Eric, you will pay. You will pay for the years of torment that you have inflicted upon me. I shall not allow this to go on unabated any longer! You must answer for everything you’ve done. And the day will come when you will answer. And when it does, I will be there. I will be there to personally make sure THAT YOU FACE IT ALL! THAT YOU SUFFER IN PAIN AS I HAVE! AS WE ALL HAVE AND SHALL DO!
I will never forgive you Eric Byrnes.
Never.
You're dead to me.
by Goose on May 1, 2010 2:05 AM PDT reply actions 6 recs
He's a D-Backs fan as well as an Ms fan
So Byrnes has now been fucking him over on his 2 separate favorite teams!
Mariners/D Broncos/BSU Broncos fan in Seattle
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Indeed
Hi Appleshampoo,
You probably don’t know me but I used to be a regular, and I’m well aware of who Goose is, having played in his fantasy baseball league the last two years. I’m also aware of his old automated signature that read “Fuck Eric Byrnes” and of his occasionally obnoxious Diamond-backing. This was just an attempt at humor. I was suggesting that he was taking it so personally because there must be a dark secret in the closet… like Eric Byrnes traumatizing him back in high school.
But thank you for trying to clarify for me. One of the hard things about Lookout Landing is that sometimes it seems as if 80% of the comments are ironic or laden with some kind of inside joke subtext. Many others are of the teasing variety… taking friendly pokes at other posters, many of whom know each other quite well, having gathered for drinks or played various sports together. I, for one, appreciate your earnestness.
Cheers,
Johnbai
It's weird that I know both of you in real life.
Charter Member: Dave Sims Sweet Hat Club
by Two Rs and Two Ls on May 1, 2010 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions
I've never trusted Byrnes, and I never will.
I can never forgive him for the death of my boy.
by Phil Hatzenbuehler on May 1, 2010 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions
I slept on it, hoping in the morning I would not be as angry at Byrnes
Then I read where he “stormed out” on a bicycle and I am perhaps more angry. The least he could have done was own up to the mistake, instead of “riding off into the distance” and not speaking to the media. I understand these guys have pride and don’t want to admit they screwed up but sheesh. I don’t trust Byrnes either.
I wanted to sleep on it first so that I did not speak from pure emotion, but I no longer trust Wakamatsu.
Maybe someday he wins that trust back, but he managed to lose that game last night by overmanaging the last few innings. It is a difficult job to manage a major league squad, I get that. However, when you make your job harder than it needs to be then you do not deserve the position.
by Sec 108 on May 1, 2010 9:10 AM PDT reply actions 7 recs
This is where I was headed with the Fanpost I wrote up early in the season.
I took a bit of flak for judging the decisions so early, but I was doing so based on the process. It was bad process then and the results are catching up. I don’t mean to say I’m giving up on the team or their chances, but someone has to step in and protect Wak from himself.
I don't want to overreact but I'm starting to agree
This is getting ridiculous. Wak and Z need to make some changes. They are smart, we know they care about objective analysis, I dunno what is taking them so long.
I do not lay much of this on GMZ.
I think he has given Wak some leeway in constructing his own roster. It is that handful of roster decisions that Wak has had a hand in that are the bad ones. Over time I think we will see our front office give us a more talented roster than we have now. The thing that upsets me is that we are not maximizing the talent we have on hand.
Having slept on it, as frustrating as that loss was
The important thing is that Cliff Lee is here and looks every bit his normal self.
I went to bed hoping to have some frustration relieved
And it worked, and last night was only one game, but I still feel frustration over the roster. It’s already been discussed, and I agree, so I won’t repeat it.
One thing that I haven’t seen brought up too much is the wear on our few field-capable players this is going to cause. We have a seven-man bullpen (to alleviate stress on the pitchers) and two DHs (for chemistry), and 2 catchers. We also have 10 players to play 12 positions. There’s almost no room for off-days. These guys are going to be worn out come August.
I was trying to find a picture of Byrnes on a bike but couldn't
I did find this video of him. Only really interesting thing in it is that he picked out Bud Light to drink at a bbq. If you are on the fence maybe this will be enough to get the anger boiling.
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