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Around SBN: Devils Beat Rangers, Head To Stanley Cup Finals

9-8, Quick Game Thoughts

There's a surprising amount of animosity for JJ Putz floating around the Mariner blogosphere. I should know - I feel it too. And it's weird, because my memories of JJ are very nearly all positive, as he was one of the most electric and exciting Mariners I've ever had the privilege of watching. I know he had some struggles there towards the end, but for a couple years he was as dominant as any reliever I've ever seen, and even his departure did us an astonishing amount of good by bringing in Franklin Gutierrez.

But then he went to New York and said some irritating things about Ichiro and, in a flash, all goodwill was lost. Fair? I'm not here to judge fairness. He said what he said, though, and people stopped liking him in an instant. And so, more than a year later, today seemed so perfect. Playing against JJ for the first time and taking him deep for a game-losing grand slam? Sweet retribution right there. That's how we all felt, and we took delight in seeing JJ walk off with that expression of shock and dismay that remains singed in our brains.

It wasn't to be. It wasn't to be, because Alex Rios hit a good pitch and Andruw Jones hit a bad one. Revenge is a dish worst served bittersweet. We made JJ feel bad, which is nice, but it means little without the win, which retroactively takes some of the shine off the dinger. A little while ago, I was jumping around my living room praising Jose Lopez for his timeliness. Now I'm sitting down, typing angrily, and thinking critical thoughts about Jose Lopez's power. I suppose, if nothing else, that was one weak-ass grand slam. A true Jose Lopez special, only a little further to the right. Proper revenge takes the ball at least into the first row. That grand slam was just embarrassing for everybody involved.

It wasn't supposed to go like this.

God dammit.

Now for some one-sentence bullet points! Friday night, everybody.

  • After tonight's outing, Ryan Rowland-Smith has ten walks and five strikeouts in 23.1 innings despite not really facing many more righties than he did a year ago, which is disconcerting.
  • Milton Bradley and Jack Wilson being hurt at the same time, but not sufficiently hurt to go on the DL, is totally not something anyone could've ever predicted ever.
  • Mark Lowe could not have thrown Andruw Jones a worse slider.
  • A lot of people express surprise when I tell them US Cellular is the most homer-friendly ballpark in the league, but then they watch a game at US Cellular.
  • Sean White was the wrong call for the seventh inning.
  • Brandon League threw actual offspeed pitches.
  • Things Donny Lucy did like a girl: throw to second base, bunt, reach base via beaning.
  • Ken Griffey Jr. had a strikeout and three grounders to the right side.
  • I think Eric Byrnes would be good at finding land mines.

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For some reason

I don’t really feel bad about this loss. I know I should, as I usually feel miserable after a walk-off defeat. Maybe it’s been the good games we’ve been having lately, but I’m relatively okay with this. It didn’t feel like we were going to win anyways.

by barabuski on Apr 23, 2010 9:19 PM PDT reply actions  

I think that is why

It doesn’t feel like we ‘deserved’ this win. If we had won, it would have felt like we snuck away with it.

But it’s still unnerving to lose a one-run game. Our margin for error to get to the playoffs this year is so small.

by Snuffleupagus on Apr 24, 2010 9:21 AM PDT up reply actions  

Three walkoff losses already

I have absolutely no historical or mathematical evidence to back it up, but that feels like a goddamn boatload

I'd rather know a little about a lot than a lot about a little

by Sportszilla on Apr 23, 2010 9:21 PM PDT reply actions  

Regarding League and White

Per Baker

“I’ve said from day 1 that I’m going to interchange League and White,‘’ Wakamatsu said. "Sean did a heck of a job for us last year and he’d done a good job for us this year. Like I said, he hadn’t given up a run. But you also watch a guy facing the first couple of hitters and you could tell whether (his sinker) is sinking or not.

“And that’s why we got him (League) up at that point. It gives you some options, but I have talked a lot about being able to interchange that bullpen deep. We were still in good shape when League was in there with two outs.’’

Not a big fan of the “he hasn’t given up a run” argument but I can’t say he didn’t think this idea through.

by ThundaPC on Apr 23, 2010 9:30 PM PDT reply actions  

I doubt that he regards them as equals.

But as a manager not named Ozzie Guillen, he’s not ever going to say anything like that to a reporter.

"Most all good Americans hate the Yankees. It is a value we cherish and pass on to our children like decency and democracy and the importance of a good breakfast." - William B. Mead

by Steve Nelson on Apr 24, 2010 6:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

Cut out the bullshit Wak. Between this obsession with White and the refusal

to adjust the lineup I’m beginning to wonder why I’m so supportive of this guy. He’s got a nice mellow attitude which apparently the players are down with, but in regards to his actual in game managing, I’m not all that impressed.

by Rudy4three on Apr 23, 2010 10:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

Why do we give Wak the benefit of the doubt?

Seriously, I don’t remember.

What decisions has he made that make us feel like he is a good manager? I like him. The players like him. Is that enough?

The Sweeney decision and the White analysis is some bad baseball.

I’m not trying to be confrontational, I’m genuinely asking what management decisions Wak has made that we use as evidence that he is a good manager.

by Snuffleupagus on Apr 24, 2010 9:31 AM PDT up reply actions  

We could probably come up with some list of good decisions he's made.

Griffey/Sweeney is not one of them, obviously, but I’d say bringing an inexperienced Shawn Kelley onto the squad in 2009 was a great move.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://www.marinersminors.com/

by JY on Apr 24, 2010 9:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

You don't remember the decisions that managers get right

only the ones you disagree with. Remember when he put Branyan in the 2-spot? How many other managers would ever do that and that was a good move.

Look, every manager is going to have too much loyalty to the internet crowd. And yes, I’m using a derogatory term here. It is true that we will tend to gloss over or minimalize the personal parts of a clubhouse. I’m not talking about chemistry per se, but a manager is going to want to have control and jumping players between roles every week and dumping players you relied on before is going to be seen as weakness and being unsure.

Is his use of Sean White frustrating? Yes. But some of you seem to have a skewed concept of the proportional impact Sean White over Brandon League in the 7th actually is.

by Matthew on Apr 24, 2010 9:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think it has to do with his bringing the clubhouse together.

The players seem to respect his management style and that is something we can appreciate. As for in-game decisions, there appears to be “belief system” that GMZ or Blengino need to break down a little.

But in reality, other than bullpen and lineup moves, I think Wak has done a good job. He at least recognizes when pitchers need to be replaced, which is huge.

by Wilder. on Apr 24, 2010 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

Thanks

I genuinely was trying to remember reasons (that I know are there).

The fact that he is willing and able to pull pitchers is wonderful. Something I praised all last year, so I appreciate the reminder.

by Snuffleupagus on Apr 24, 2010 9:50 AM PDT up reply actions  

This is great:
that was one weak-ass grand slam. A true Jose Lopez special

At that point I knew it wasn’t going to go our way.

by TrustBaseball on Apr 23, 2010 9:33 PM PDT reply actions  

I caught this game in a non-sports bar, with one screen only about 10 people could see.

When he lofted that ball, every patron seemed to jump to where they could see what was going on. And the entire bar erupted in laughter. Everyone was holding their breath when Jones fell on his butt for a slow 3 count, then when we knew the ball barely cleared… laughter. It was the most amazing reaction

by Kermit. on Apr 24, 2010 5:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

I couldn't stop laughing for about five minutes.

It was just so Jose Freaking Lopez of a home run coming at the most crucial time against a pitcher we are used to blowing guys away. It was so improbable, it was destined to happen.

by Wilder. on Apr 24, 2010 9:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

No backups for the next few games???

With Wilson out a few games, Bradley’s quad acting up, and our hugging DH tandem unless the M’s make a roster move tonight they will not only have no IF backups, they won’t have any backups that can play in the field, this is insane roster construction. If someone gets hurt tomorrow, who goes out there. Other than 1B I can’t see where Jr. or Sweeney could play. PLEASE MAKE A ROSTER MOVE ASAP—-DFA Colome and Sweeney, bring up Langerhans and Hannahan.

by littlelinny6 on Apr 23, 2010 9:42 PM PDT reply actions  

I'm also a little amazed Putz is hated on so much around here

Sure, he talked shit about another player on the team. If Randy Johnson would have called ARod a little bitch in 1998 would you have turned on him too? Its not the greatest moment in Putz’s life but Ichiro is probably not the most likable guy and probably legitimately looks like he is not trying that hard.

There are very few times in baseball that you get so excited you get chills but when you were at the game and heard Thunderstruck as Putz entered the game during the 9th inning you knew it was gonna be awesome. That’s what I remember about JJ Putz.

by Edgar for Pres on Apr 23, 2010 9:42 PM PDT reply actions  

I felt the chills when I heard Thunderstruck and it was awesome, but don't %^^$#$@ mess

with ICHIRO. He’s awesome and he is the HOFer, not Putz. At that point JJ was a bad teammate and a loser. If you don’t think Ichiro is “trying that hard” I guess I just don’t get it. Ichiro is doing things that have never been been done before, and I don’t see him slowing down.

by TrustBaseball on Apr 23, 2010 9:50 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I went to a game for my friend's birthday in 2006 against the Giants.

Putz came in in the 9th with a 1 run lead. He got the first guy on a groundout, second guy on a swinging strike, and then struck out Barry Bonds looking. That was such a good match up.

by seattle_since_81 on Apr 23, 2010 9:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not sure how that happened.

Anyway, it’s fine for JJ to think those things because he can think whatever he wants. But don’t say those things right after you get traded. Just because you’re on another team doesn’t make it ok to slander your former teamates. That’s why I hate Jose Canseco so much.

by Hopefulmsfan on Apr 23, 2010 11:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

Randy Johnson >>> J.J. Putz

And Ichiro is a lot more likable than A-Rod. So no, I wouldn’t have responded the same way. Randy Johnson complaining about A-Rod = superstar squabbling. Putz complaining about Ichiro = rank ignorance, bad camaraderie.

by pygmalion on Apr 24, 2010 5:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

Is it possible RRS is just a slow starter?

We’ve never really gotten a good feel of how he does in April/May since he’s always either been hurt or in the bullpen. I know he’s not the greatest but maybe(hopefully) he just needs some time to get a feel for his pitching.

by Scrupio on Apr 23, 2010 9:59 PM PDT reply actions  

RRS taking pitching advise from Twitter.
@thebrido good call mate, I agree, go right after these f+#*ers! Will take that into next game! Thanks for the comment champ!

I have no idea whether he’s serious or not.

Hard work never killed nobody, but I won't take my chances.

by JAH on Apr 23, 2010 10:25 PM PDT reply actions  

Please never use the word disconcerting again.

It is never used in the proper context and you’re unfortunately guilty of the same infraction.

by refuse2lose2010 on Apr 24, 2010 2:37 AM PDT reply actions  

I'm confused

How is that not the proper context? “Disconcerting” means disturbing/frustrating/confusing.

I think that stat about RRS counts as “disconcerting”

by Karma Police on Apr 24, 2010 2:53 AM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

I'm not going to point out how much this comment makes you like an idiot and an asshole ...

… You’ve done that job far better than I ever could have.

"Most all good Americans hate the Yankees. It is a value we cherish and pass on to our children like decency and democracy and the importance of a good breakfast." - William B. Mead

by Steve Nelson on Apr 24, 2010 6:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

Being a grammar scold requires walking a fine line

between being informative and being an ass. It also requires always being right.

by pygmalion on Apr 24, 2010 7:16 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'm not sure you deserved to get slammed this hard

But on the other hand, it’s not like dictionaries are a hard thing to find online . . . .
Disconcerting

by Snuffleupagus on Apr 24, 2010 9:48 AM PDT up reply actions  

I want LL to be more tolerant of beginner's ignorance.

Not of condescension or asshattery. If someone acts like an asshole, that behavior is fair game to trash from where I sit.

by Matthew on Apr 24, 2010 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions  

"He was the only male performer I have ever seen to whom I responded sexually;

it wasn’t real arousal, rather an erection of the heart, when I looked at him I went mad with desire and envy and worship and self-projection."
That was rock critic Lester Bangs eulogizing Elvis Presley. I don’t hate JJ Putz, but if you want to know why someone would hate JJ Putz for saying bad things about Ichiro, the answer was given more than three decades before the question was posed.

by groovewrangler on Apr 24, 2010 3:11 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Jeff - looking back, what do you think you missed seeing or overlooked about Thornton when he was with the Mariners?

When he was traded, I certainly agreed that he looked like he was never going to be anything. Looking back, was there anything we should have picked up on but didn’t?

"Most all good Americans hate the Yankees. It is a value we cherish and pass on to our children like decency and democracy and the importance of a good breakfast." - William B. Mead

by Steve Nelson on Apr 24, 2010 7:02 AM PDT reply actions  

A couple things stand out:

1) He’s a lefty who threw in the high 90s. I should’ve been more patient

2) His home run rate was completely unsustainable

3) Related to #1, his contact rate in his bad year was 74%. That’s really really good. He clearly had stuff he was young enough to harness

Of course, I can’t speak to the mechanical changes in Chicago. I didn’t pick up on those, and I couldn’t pick up on them now.

by Jeff Sullivan on Apr 24, 2010 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

Absolutely

His control got tons better, he started getting more groundballs, and his velocity shot up.

by Jeff Sullivan on Apr 24, 2010 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

When the trade was made Cooper specifically mentioned mechanical flaws that he thought he saw

They figured there was a good chance they could adjust some things and make Thornton more effective.

Worst case that nothing changed and they were no worse off than they were with Borchard. So the trade was nothing but upside for them, and it worked. Cooper and the White Sox deserve a (grudging) tip of the hat on that deal.

"Most all good Americans hate the Yankees. It is a value we cherish and pass on to our children like decency and democracy and the importance of a good breakfast." - William B. Mead

by Steve Nelson on Apr 24, 2010 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

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