Why Pitchers Can Be Difficult To Project
God bless the ST articles that still manage to feed us something worthwhile. On Derek Lowe:
"I literally changed everything from my feet to my head," he said. "I looked at video from before, watched video of successful guys and what they do. I changed my arm angle, arm path, stride, knee, shoulder, head, elbow, height of my arm, we can go on all day long. There isn’t one thing I did last year I’m doing right now – which a lot of people will be happy to hear."
Now, there are two options, here. One is that pitching mechanics don't make a difference. That's silly. You're silly.
The other is that pitching mechanics do make a difference, and given that condition, if Lowe's telling the truth and he really did overhaul the way he throws, then we should expect him to be different in 2010 than he was in 2009. Granted, even with a new delivery, Lowe will still throw the same pitches. I imagine he will forever be an extreme groundballer. But when you change the way you throw a baseball, there exists the possibility - or likelihood - that you see a change in the results you generate. And that's the sort of thing that doesn't get picked up by projection systems.
Hitters are easier - not only because they're not as fragile as pitchers, but also because they seldom change the way they hit. You'll hear about the occasional re-tooling, such as we saw with Michael Saunders, but by and large it's just about learning what to swing at and what to avoid. That's a lot more projectable than a pitcher who makes a change to his delivery, and pitchers mess around with their deliveries all the time. Oftentimes they don't make a difference, but sometimes they do, and that can make predicting their performances quite the challenge.
It would be neat to create a database separating pitchers who changed their mechanics from pitchers who didn't. Of course, you'd have to break them down by type of change, and degree of change, and then you're dealing with total sample size issues, but it'd be great to see some work done on the issue, because as of right now this is something we're not really sure how to handle. (Note: I realize this is impossible. I also think it would be neat if my laptop made bagels.)
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The trouble is
Pitchers come in almost every spring training saying they’ve gone back to their old coach who “saw something” that they adjusted, or they say they “learned a new pitch,” or whatever. Often the results are the same. Sometimes they’re different. Sometimes they don’t claim to have changed anything, and their results are different.
The only way to really do this would be to look at a season’s worth of Pitch FX data and compare it to previous seasons’ Pitch FX data and look for significant (and consistent) differences, and then see if that causes consistent (and different) results. So you would at least have retroactive confirmation, but it still wouldn’t help with projections.
Well there's a difference between "toying with a new pitch" and "I literally changed everything"
but anyway, the point’s valid – we don’t know how to treat this, so projection systems won’t know how to treat this, so the projections will be less reliable.
by Jeff Sullivan on Mar 6, 2010 12:03 PM PST up reply actions
We have our own version of this in camp.
It’s not the same as Lowe, but Shell was a guy that was thought of as never quite doing what his arm led people to think he could do.
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://www.marinersminors.com/
Me too
I would have been ok with Sean White saying it too. Maybe Lowe will become as awesome as he was a while ago. I guess that’d be neat.
by Edgar for Pres on Mar 6, 2010 1:32 PM PST up reply actions
Carlos Silva
today-2 inning- 7 hits and 6 runs!
he’s toying with a new pitch
thank god he’s bleeding cubbie blue!
I don't understand the link to Sean Green's Fangraphs page
I don’t really remember when Sean Green changed his mechanics, and nothing in his stats is helping me remember. Results-wise, he’s pretty much the same pitcher he’s always been and there’s no significant evidence of a change in true talent level. Perhaps you were trying to post a different link to show an example of changed mechanics making a difference.
by Sukafish on Mar 6, 2010 2:41 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Misplaced links happen to the best of us
And the rest of us, like me.
by Sukafish on Mar 6, 2010 2:42 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Green dropped his arm angle to sidearm back in 2007 and became very different
by Jeff Sullivan on Mar 6, 2010 2:55 PM PST up reply actions
Green dropped his arm angle mid-season in 2009 and became very different.
Pictures!

became….

Indisputable evidence of a change in approach
Is there a corresponding change in performance? I didn’t see anything in fangraphs. The changed arm angle would logically lead to different motion on the ball, but it looks like he was hit just as hard (moderately hard) from season to season.
by Sukafish on Mar 7, 2010 2:00 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
No, the sample sizes are too small (he made this change around September) of last year.
He had an even higher GB ratio, but not by enough to say anything definitively. And it sounds like he’s dropping his arm angle further this spring, so he’ll be quite a different pitcher next year.

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