The Ricky Nolasco Case: What Went Wrong?
Because of the fact that I have a Mariners blog, I write a lot, but for whatever reason I've never written anything here. However, Taylor's recent fanpost inspired me, so I decided to give it a whirl.
Ricky Nolasco was undeniably solid in 2008. His peripherals were good, his ERA was good, and his advanced stats were good. At the end of the 2008 season, he looked to be somewhat of a budding star. He was just 25 years old, and it appeared he had finally put it together after spending nearly the entire 2007 season between rookie-ball and triple-A.
There was absolutely no indication that his good year was a fluke, either. His BABIP was slightly below league average, and his LOB% slightly above, but not nearly enough so to completely discount the 3.77 FIP he posted. The impressive numbers, including the low ERA, were well-deserved. Ricky was no doubt feeling pretty good about himself at the end of 2008. 2009, on the other hand, was a bit of a different story… or at least, it appeared to be.
He got off to an extremely rocky start, sporting a 9.07 ERA at the end of May, had some success in the middle months, and ended the season with a 5.06 mark. Understandably so, a lot of fans were probably wondering what went wrong. Well, frankly, nothing did.
Ricky Nolasco was at least as good in 2009 as he was in 2008 – he was simply the victim of awful luck. While it may be arguable as to what exactly pitchers have control over, I don’t think anyone would disagree that they do control strikeouts and walks – so let’s look at those first. In 2008, Ricky Nolasco struck out 186 and walked 42, good for a 4.43 K/BB. In 2009, he struck out 195 and walked 44, good for a 4.43 K/BB. I think it’s safe to say that there wasn’t any sort of drop off there. Fair enough?
Aside from luck (which I’ll get to in a minute), the only real noticeable difference I can find between Nolasco’s 2008 & 2009 season’s, is the success he had with his pitches. Here’s a chart showing each of his pitches, and their respective run values in each of the last two seasons:
| Pitch | 2008 Run Value | 2009 Run Value |
| Fastball | 4.7 | -15.5 |
| Slider | 4.0 | 14.3 |
| Curve | 11.2 | 0.5 |
| Change | 1.5 | -0.4 |
According to these values, his fastball and curve got a lot worse, his slider got a lot better, and his change stayed pretty much the same. I looked into this, hoping there was a drop in velocity or something that could explain this in a concrete way, but there really isn’t. Aside from a slight drop in zone% with his pitches as a whole, I can’t find any reason that his fastball and curve would have dropped off like that, so I’m just going to write it off as insignificant.
The most prominent reason for his 2009 struggles is pretty obvious, though; luck. Ricky Nolasco was extremely unlucky in 2009. When a pitcher has a tRA under 4, an FIP under 4, and an ERA over 5, that’s a pretty clear red flag telling you that you shouldn’t be paying attention to his ERA, and in Nolasco’s case, the other numbers really back this up. We already covered his K/BB, and the fact that it didn’t change at all over the last two seasons is a pretty good indicator that he didn’t become less effective. There’s also his .336 BABIP – which was .33 points above league average, and the third highest in baseball. In some cases a BABIP this high can be explained by bad defense, but the Marlins really weren’t that bad defensively in 2009, meaning it was mainly just bad luck. And last but not least, you have his LOB%, which, at 61%, was the lowest in baseball by a wide margin. When someone got on base against Ricky Nolasco, they were going to score ALMOST HALF OF THE TIME. That’s pretty ridiculous, and certainly not sustainable.
So, there you have it. Ricky Nolasco was not a bad pitcher last season – there was no huge drop off, he was simply exposed to the scorn of Lady Luck like no other. He’s still a well above average, young pitcher, and I hope that the Marlins front office realizes that.
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Is there ever a time you should pay attention to a pitcher's ERA?
Not being a smart-ass… legitimately wondering.
It has so many flaws. With so many better stats available, I don't see the point in ever actually paying attention to it as a tool for pitcher evaluation.
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by Griffin Cooper on Feb 9, 2010 6:26 PM PST up reply actions
Career ERA+ is okay given 10+ seasons
It’s like getting a keg of bud for a big party; it’s not great or anything, but it’s cheap and easy to get and it’ll get the job done.
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Feb 9, 2010 7:53 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, I guess in most cases that's true.
Except there are always going to be a few scenarios in which a pitcher has pitched in a big ballpark, or with a really good defense behind him for a large portion of his career. I guess even then, if it’s over 10+ seasons, it would at least be a fairly accurate depiction.
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by Griffin Cooper on Feb 9, 2010 8:01 PM PST up reply actions
I think ERA gets too hard of a rap
ERA contains things that FIP or tRA won’t tell you, namely BABIP skill, and the ability to better sequence events, as well as little things like pickoffs, the ability to prevent stolen bases, etc. The only reason that we use FIP is that ERA contains too many things that are less in a pitchers control. And in a smaller sample size (like 2-3 seasons) the amount of luck that FIP strips out outweighs the amount of skill that it strips out.
However, I think that once you get to a 4-5 season sample size, ERA is better than FIP or tRA (and defense and park adjusted RA is the best!). That’s basically what Baseball Projection WAR does, and I like it better for evaluating a career than FanGraphs.
Of course I don’t know exactly when it’s better to use ERA over FIP. Has anyone ever done a split season correlation on ERA?
by vivaelpujols on Feb 9, 2010 10:23 PM PST up reply actions
In listening to advocates of resigning Washburn, one point has struck me as interesting.
They quote his ERA from last year and say that, no matter how luck-based his performance happened to be, it still happened. And for that reason, for the M’s pitching to improve on last year, that production needs to be made up and passed, which they believe sets the bar pretty high for Lee. Not necessarily out of reach, but just high. I think what they’re trying to get across is that him having a season like last year won’t just improve the Mariners as if he was starting from zero. It’s like he’s already in the hole because he needs to make up Washburn’s production as well. I hope that makes sense. Anyways…
I’m not advocating this as true, and I’m not advocating at all that ERA should be given any more than a passing glance, if that. What I am wondering about is this: despite performances like Washburn’s being entirely luck-based, they still happened. The M’s still had good things happen when he was pitching last year, for the most part. For that reason, it seems to me that “lucky” performances can’t just be written off as such when considering the future, as far as a team goes. Those lucky performances still happened, and any legitimate improvement for the future isn’t just building from scratch, but is starting behind and has to catch up.
I can’t think of a better way to explain what I’m trying to say, so I hope it makes sense. I’m not trying to postulate a theory. Just interested in stimulating conversation about the topic and seeing what comes from it. Sorry about the long post.
by Matt Erickson on Feb 10, 2010 2:26 AM PST up reply actions
Well the whole point of FIP and stuff is to seperate pitching from defense
ERA isn’t something that “happened” for the pitcher, it’s something that happened for the pitcher and the defense.
If we had a perfect DIPS than there would be no use for ERA or RA. But we don’t. Even the best DIPS have some flaws that are captured in RA to some extent.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 10, 2010 7:30 AM PST up reply actions
Ok let me try this again.
I wasn’t quite saying his ERA happened to him. I was saying (and I’m not completely sure whether or not this is different) that that production happened, stated in part by his ERA, in connection with him. That is, when he pitched, runs were scored at a rate of 2.64 runs per nine innings, regardless of whether or not he pitched at a level that should have resulted in more runs scored per nine innings (can’t find xFIP, etc., for his ’09 with Seattle).
So as far as predicting his future performance and analyzing his past performance, it’s important to pay attention to DIPS. But as far as thinking towards the improvement of the rotation next year, it seems that we can’t write off Wash’s production as luck and quote his various DIPS to prove that and say that Cliff Lee would basically be an improvement regardless, as if in a vacuum. Cliff Lee could produce at a rate such that, according to his DIPS, runs are scored at a rate of 2.64 runs per nine innings (resulting in a damn sight lower ERA than Wash put up), and the result wouldn’t be an improvement on what happened when Washburn pitched, correct?
Now Lee might be around longer and might be more reliable and I’d sure as he’ll rather have him in the playoffs. I’m not trying to question who is the better pitcher. Just had to make that clear. If I’m wrong about all this or missing something, please let me know.
by Matt Erickson on Feb 10, 2010 9:50 AM PST up reply actions
I understand exactly what you're saying, and what a lot of other players have been saying about projecting the M's for this year.
Why should we think our rotation is going to be better this year than it was last year when we replace a guy who gave up less than 3 runs per game with Lee, who might be lucky to achieve such results?
And I think it’s a pretty good point. Sort of.
Run distribution matters as well as average runs allowed, but that becomes a guessing game, because we can’t forecast run distributions for a team or player. And of course, There are other things a pitcher can’t control, like defense and park effects, that impact his runs allowed. WE don’t know exactly how much those things impacted Washburn last year, or will impact Cliff Lee this year.
Which is why most analysts will say that it’s really not proper to look at last year’s team, observe the changes that are made, and try to estimate how much those changes could impact wins. It’s much better to start from scratch and build up the team as currently constructed to forecast expectations for this season.
by nathaniel dawson on Feb 10, 2010 3:33 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I completely understand your point here, but I think there are some things you need to consider
While we can’t predict what kind of luck Cliff Lee is going to have, he is going to have our defense behind him (just like Washburn did), and he is going to be pitching at Safeco (just like Washburn did). Those two things were huge benefits to Washburn last year, and huge parts of why he gave up so few runs. Cliff Lee is going to have those same benefits, on top of the fact that he’s a significantly better pitcher than Jarrod Washburn. Washburn was worth 1.2 WAR with the M’s last year (via StatCorner), while Lee has been worth 5.7 and 7.6 over the last two years. Any way you slice it, Lee’s going to be a huge improvement over Washburn – especially once you consider that he’s going to benefit from the same factors.
My Mariners blog SodoMojo, My Twitter Feed
by Griffin Cooper on Feb 10, 2010 12:21 PM PST up reply actions
I completely agree that he's going to be better.
But how exactly do you quantify “better” here? What exactly does it mean? Does it mean he will achieve better results? Because the end result is all that matters. Winning is what really counts. If one compares a pitcher who consistently pitches 7 innings of 4-6 hit/2-3 run ball that is entirely based on luck (lots of fly balls to the warning track, lots of gappers caught by omnipresent centerfielders, hard shots up the middle speared by terrific defense shortstops, etc) with a pitcher who consistently pitches 7 innings of 4-6 hit/2-3 run ball that is entirely based on talent (weak fly balls, slow grounders, lots of strikeouts, etc), the end result is the same for the team.
Now, one situation is clearly more likely to be repeatable, and there’s no question on which pitcher one would want to bank for the future. But just the same, the outcome of the second performance, objectively, in and of itself, is not inherently “better” than the outcome of the first. Statistically, the first will look prettier, particularly because it is more reliable, and for that reason, it is certainly preferable (and perhaps because the defense doesn’t have to work as hard). But it is not “better”. Both performances are quite likely achieve the same (desired) result—a win.
Understand what I mean here. I’m not saying that the M’s could replace Lee with Washburn in the rotation this year and be just as well off. Not even close. I am saying that when Washburn pitched last year, despite all of the luck and lack of skill on his part, the end result was that, on average, 2.64 runs/nine innings were allowed. That is good. When Cliff Lee pitches this year, if he consistently pitches 7 innings and, by his own talent as a pitcher, allows only an average of 2.64 runs/nine innings, his stats that matter will be better, he’ll be more reliable, and the Mariners’ defense won’t feel so taken advantage of, but will the Mariners be better off this year (compared to last year) when all’s said and done?
by Matt Erickson on Feb 10, 2010 1:35 PM PST up reply actions
An addendum to my previous post...
Illustration:
We’ll set “x” = outcome of Washburn’s starts with Mariners in ’09
“x” is composed of the following…
“a” = Skill
“b” = Luck
“c” = Defense
In saying that Cliff Lee will be “an improvement” on Washburn, we are making the assertion that the outcome of Lee’s starts with Mariners in ’10 (call it “y”) will be greater than “x”. So we are making the assertion that “y > x”.
Now if this is true, then that of which “y” is composed must be greater than that of which “x” is composed. Is this the case? Well, Cliff Lee is a lot more skilled than Washburn, so yes, in “y”, “a” is greater than it is in “x”. But by nature of the relationships between “a” and “b” and “a” and “c”, as “a” increases, “b” decreases, and as “a” increases, “c” also decreases. So because Lee is a much more skilled pitcher, he makes much less use of luck than does Washburn, and for the same reason, terrific defense has much less of an impact on the overall result of his performance.
When comparing “x” and “y”, then, we can see that, though one aspect of “y” is greater than “x”, other aspects are likely to be less.
So the question is, will “y > x”?
by Matt Erickson on Feb 10, 2010 1:53 PM PST up reply actions
Well
It’s important to remember that luck is not sustainable, and there’s a really good chance that Washburn would have faced a lot of regression if he had stayed in Seattle for the second half. On top of that, he certainly could not have been counted on to benefit from the same type of luck in 2010 – meaning that Lee is certain to have more success than Washburn would have, because he doesn’t need the same type of luck to pitch well. As for whether or not Lee will be more successful in 2010 than Washburn was with the Mariners in 2009, in terms of RA/9, maybe not, but we’ll be able to count on him to be consistently good, while Washburn’s success was flukey and unsustainable. It’s not as if the fact that Washburn’s success was strongly influenced by luck hurt the Mariners in any way last year, so in that respect, we’re likely to get the same type of RA/9 “success”, only with an improved bullpen and an improved offense.
My Mariners blog SodoMojo, My Twitter Feed
by Griffin Cooper on Feb 10, 2010 2:16 PM PST up reply actions
More of a first principles question: what question are you trying to answer?
As I’m sure you know, a look at Washburn’s ERA in his half-year in Seattle in 2009 is a poor place to start if you’re trying to evaluate Washburn in comparison with Lee, and it’s a poor place to start if you’re trying to determine if re-signing Washburn is a good idea.
The advocates for re-signing Washburn point more to his career ERA, and claim that he has some skill that isn’t captured in defense-independent metrics. That’s an interesting claim, but that skill wasn’t much evident in 2008, and certainly left him after he moved to Detroit. But yes, his big-sample ERA versus his big-sample FIP or xFIP is an interesting debate worth having. But using 2009 results (but only his results in Seattle! Toss the rest of them!) doesn’t help move that debate forward.
Using a half-year of ERA of one player to create a baseline from which we would evaluate Cliff Lee is a bit weird. Cliff Lee adds several wins in true talent, and will hopefully pitch 200+ innings in 2010. Who you ‘assign’ those innings to in your 2009 baseline is arbitrary and just not useful. If he’s measured against Washburn’s half season, maybe it’s more difficult to claim that the team’s getting better. Measure Lee against 2009 innings pitched by Olson, Vargas and Jakubauskas and boom, he’s a massive improvement. This is a separate issue to the whole ERA debate; this is about how to account for team changes. This came up a lot after 2007 when many thought the team was really close to contending. I mean, just substitute Bedard in for Jeff Weaver, Cha Baek and Horacio Ramirez and BOOM, the team’s a pennant winner, no problem!
I think the question he's trying to answer, or what a lot of people have been asking,
Is how can we expect our rotation to be better this year when we can see that we got great results from Washburn, and we can’t expect Lee to produce results that are better than that?
Can Lee allow fewer runs per game than Washburn did last year?
I’m pretty sure he wasn’t trying to compare the results we could expect from Washburn this year to what we can expect from Lee. And I don’t think he was advocating for re-signing Washburn.
With the changes they have made, can we expect our rotation to allow fewer runs than they did last year?
by nathaniel dawson on Feb 10, 2010 3:51 PM PST up reply actions
I know that, and tried to respond to that.
The whole comment was about why the question ‘Can Lee allow fewer runs per game than Washburn did last year’ is sort of problematic.
I'm going to disagree with you here (with a caveat)
I think that for a couple of seasons, there’s zero reason to use RA/9. Past that, you start looking at both RA and the defence-independent metric of your choice together. If you had a pitcher who played for, say, the Mariners between 2000-2004, you have a massive defensive bias even over a large sample. So looking at both and figuring out why there are differences (if there are differences) gives you a better idea of what’s actually been going on.
by Graham MacAree on Feb 10, 2010 7:17 AM PST up reply actions
Hmm.. I think maybe some sort of weighting as a function on innings pitched would be good
Even over a single season, I think that RA has some information that DIPS lacks. However, you would obviously weigh DIPS much more heavily.
It should be pretty easy to find the right weighting. You could either A), do a split season multivariable regression for pitchers on teams around 0 UZR/DER, or B) do a multivariable regression on players who changed teams mid-season.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 10, 2010 5:57 PM PST up reply actions
His LD% rise from 18.8% to 21.8% might explain some of the BABIP increase
but that’s certainly not to say he didn’t get screwed on luck.
I'd be wary of using pitch values for anything at this point
They seem to fluctuate quite wildly and since the values are tied to the events after the ball has been struck, they are not defense independent. You certainly can’t say something like ‘pitch x got worse’ etc based on pitch values, particularly when you can see that his K rate and swing rates have remained stable.
Otherwise, nice breakdown. I think the LOB rate is the most telling here. I’d look into Nolasco’s splits in high leverage situations or with runners on to find his 09 problem. A guy with his stuff should have a LOB rate in the 68-72 neighborhood.
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Feb 9, 2010 8:02 PM PST reply actions
Yeah, I've noticed that, which is why I ultimately decided to just ignore them.
I should have stuck an “according to these values” in front of “pitch x got a lot better, pitch y got worse, etc”. In fact, I’ll do that now.
My Mariners blog SodoMojo, My Twitter Feed
by Griffin Cooper on Feb 9, 2010 8:07 PM PST up reply actions
So... his FIP rises dramatically with leverage (2.5 low, 4.0 med, 4.7 high)
and looking simply at bases empty/runners on you get a 2.5/4.7 split. That pretty much ought to tell you everything about what happened. His career numbers have no such split, so it may be poor luck in the clutch. On the other hand, this is FIP we’re talking about so its not like his defense failed him (although that happened too – 30 points higher babip with runners on).
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Feb 9, 2010 9:47 PM PST up reply actions
Huh. Those leverage splits are interesting, although I just don't think that's something that's sustainable
Unless we’re going to believe that he’s choking in these situations and pitching poorly. There is the possibility that he has trouble pitching from the stretch.
My Mariners blog SodoMojo, My Twitter Feed
by Griffin Cooper on Feb 9, 2010 10:12 PM PST up reply actions
Oh I agree with you
I think he’s fine. I just wanted to point out that it wasnt all bad luck (which there was a little of, based on his higher BABip with men on) but some of it seemed to be tied ti his own performance in those situations.
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Feb 10, 2010 6:17 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah, and if you check out the links I posted above
It looks like he pitched legitimately worse last year with runners on. Whether that’s sustainable, I don’t know…
by vivaelpujols on Feb 10, 2010 7:32 AM PST up reply actions
You should also take a look at this series of peices by Michael Jong about Nolasco
http://marlinmaniac.com/2010/01/05/is-nolascos-problem-the-stretch/
http://marlinmaniac.com/2010/01/08/update-on-nolasco-and-the-stretch/
http://marlinmaniac.com/2010/01/25/nolasco-stretch-vs-windup-2-the-pitch-fx-returns/
http://marlinmaniac.com/2010/02/04/nolasco-pitch-fx-pitch-locations-by-count-type/













