The Best And Worst Rotations In Mariner History
Inspired by a comment from Goose in the thread below, I decided to take a look at how the Mariner starters have done every year since 1977 against the league-average performance. I used FIP for what should be obvious reasons, and though these numbers aren't park-adjusted, they should be close enough. Safeco and the Kingdome have opposite home run effects, but the end result when you calculate it out isn't a huge change, and I'm not even going to bother trying to figure out how the Kingdome affected strikeouts and walks. This isn't a journal article.
Top Five Unadjusted Mariner Rotations:
1. 1993 (-10.4% from league average FIP)
2. 2000 (-9.4%)
3. 1990 (-9.1%)
4. 2001 (-8.1%)
5. 1995 (-7.2%)
The neat thing here is that we don't have to worry about park adjustments at all, because a Kingdome rotation leads the way anyway and adjusting for park would only broaden the gap. The '93 Mariners gave 88 starts to Randy Johnson, Erik Hanson, and Chris Bosio, all three of whom were great, and they didn't give too many innings to anyone terrible. Adjusting for park would flip #2 and #3, so we can take this chance to recognize the good work of Hanson and Matt Young while avoiding having to say anything about Aaron Sele.
Bottom Five Unadjusted Mariner Rotations:
1. 1977 (+24.6%)
2. 1978 (+16.7%)
3. 2008 (+6.5%)
4. 1980 (+5.6%)
5. 1979 (+4.9%)
The league-average starter FIP in 1977 was 4.14. The best FIP by any regular Mariner starter was Tom House, at 4.55. To expansion! And congratulations to Bill Bavasi on constructing the worst non-expansion era rotation in franchise history. Incredible to think that that happened (A) with Felix Hernandez, (B) after trading for Erik Bedard, and (C) after handing $48m to a free agent.
Park adjustments will replace 1979 with 2005, which, hey, Sele again. Felix was the only guy on that staff with a K/9 over 5.2, and he only threw 85 innings. We have seen some bad pitching.
How does the 2010 Mariner rotation project when compared to other rotations in team history? Well, it's kind of silly to run these numbers now considering the team may still add a starter and we have no idea who's going to get hurt or replaced, but if you go with Felix, Lee, RRS, Snell, Vargas, Olson, and Fister all picking up innings and you use their CHONE-projected FIPs, you end up around -10%. This also uses the CHONE-projected innings for the first five guys and giving the rest to the latter two, along with a 4.59 league FIP (weighted average of the last four years).
Sorry for that unreadable paragraph. Basically, the 2010 Mariners have a chance to showcase the best starting rotation in team history, but in order to do that, they're likely going to need Felix and Lee to combine for 450 innings. Alternatively they could get a breakthrough from Snell or land someone from outside the organization, but then you still have to deal with park adjustments, aaaaaaaand the bottom line is that having the best rotation in team history, when you're competing against 33 other rotations, is hard.
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I think you mean that last + to be a -
At least based on how you used them in higher paragraphs
Next up?
The Best And Worst Bullpens In Mariner History.
Sweet I can't wait!
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by Griffin Cooper on Feb 4, 2010 6:13 PM PST up reply actions
Bobby Ayayayala.
’Nuff said.
I'd sleep at the Internet, but I've found servers don't make for good pillows.
by thehemogoblin on Feb 4, 2010 6:28 PM PST up reply actions
You'd be shocked how well he pitched according to FIP.
...and now I'm here
Yeah my bad
I knew you had thrown it around some but forgot you devoted basically a post to it. I guess i remembered it more for just the Ayala stuff.
by Edgar for Pres on Feb 5, 2010 12:06 AM PST up reply actions
I know, I know
… but he consistently had an ERA much greater than his FIP (~0.50), to the point that it was probably structural. Plus, FIP =/= memories.
I'd sleep at the Internet, but I've found servers don't make for good pillows.
by thehemogoblin on Feb 4, 2010 8:38 PM PST up reply actions
That no-hitter was one of the strangest/best moments in M's history
Walked the first two batters, went to 3-0 (I think) on Greenwell, pitching coach comes out, and from that moment on – starting with a double play on Greenwell – Bosio throws a perfect game.
Also, 1993 featured Dave Fleming
Sure he was past his peak but he was still awesome in my mind.
One of my favorite Mariners ever.
Him and Mike Schooler.
Batted .393/.614/.464 for 2009 Diablos, #5 in OBP for PSSBL Rocky Division.
by Two Rs and Two Ls on Feb 4, 2010 11:19 PM PST up reply actions
The radio called him that all the time that year.
I remember it vividly
Thanks for the cool and informative write up
Would the -10% change at all with the addition of Bedard? And how likely is it that Felix and Cliff would actually be able to pitch 450 innings? Just curious.
RJ and Hanson
I love that the ’95 rotation is one of the best, despite the fact that it was Randy Johnson and then a handful of magic beans. Guess he was kinda dominant that year, huh?
And viva Erik Hanson! My all time favorite Mariner pitcher before the Big Unit. People forget how good Hanson was for about three years before he got hurt. He had the best curveball I had ever seen at the time, easily as good as Blyleven’s. I saw him strike out Mattingly twice in one game with that curveball.
Yeah, that was a video game pitch.
Like Jeff Nelson’s slider when he first came up. Neither pitch looked real/fair.
Just tried to find video of it through Google...
and I was first pointed to “Nintendo slider”. That couldn’t be more apt, for a multitude of reasons.
I'd sleep at the Internet, but I've found servers don't make for good pillows.
by thehemogoblin on Feb 4, 2010 8:48 PM PST up reply actions
"VIdeo Game Pitch" should be a stat, or an article, or something.
A list of pitches that were so unfair they shouldn’t have even been included in video games.
...and now I'm here
Let's see...
- Jeff Nelson’s slider
- Mariano Rivera’s cutter
- Randy Johnson’s slider (Larry Walker)
I'd sleep at the Internet, but I've found servers don't make for good pillows.
by thehemogoblin on Feb 4, 2010 8:52 PM PST up reply actions
It's not always big names.
That one Brandon League pitch is supposed to be ridiculous.
...and now I'm here
Any knuckler when it is "working"
Also any Gaylord Perry pitch using, uh, let’s call it a “non-pristine” ball.
Bill Lee's curveball.
Say it with me: Washington Capitals. Capitals.
Preserved In All His Greatness - R.I.P. The Reignman 1989 to 1997
Fun fact: In his first start of the year in 1992 with Boston, Matt Young threw a no hitter against the Indians.
He walked 7 batters and lost the game 2-1.
FUCK ERIC BYRNES FUCK ERIC BYRNES!
ZiPS projections... Yes Please!
Name ___________Age___ERA___W___L___G___GS___INN___H___ER___HR___BB___K
Felix Hernandez …..24……..3.02…..15…..7…..34….34….232.2….194….78……19……79….216
Erik Bedard* ……….31……..3.12…..7……3…..18….18….106.2…..83…..37……11……40….110
Cliff Lee* ………….. 31……..3.42….15……9…..33….32….216.0…209….82……19……46….163
Ryan R-S*………….27……..4.05…..9……8…..27…..25….164.1…157….74……19……58…..102
Ian Snell……………28………4.41….10….11….34….34….193.2….192….95……20……89…..142
I mean, I don’t really see Snell happening, and I wonder is Bedard’s accounts for his surgery or if its all weighted averages. But still.
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Feb 5, 2010 7:12 AM PST reply actions
Its just a weighted average for Bedard
Since he missed time I think it might kind of round about style guess he might have had an injury but it doesn’t know anything intelligent. ZiPS isn’t told he was hurt.
by Edgar for Pres on Feb 5, 2010 9:30 AM PST up reply actions
Safeco and Steroids
My immediate response to this graph was “Wow, look at the dawn of the Steroid Era.” Obviously a lot of other things changed around that time, but the league average really skyrockets.
2010
Should have a pretty good shot of placing in the top 5, anyway. That would make me pretty happy, especially just two years removed from the suck of 2008.
And with this defense, the trailing edge in the wider world who still look at ERA should be impressed as well.
Interesting to see how bad pitching was overall in 1996
I remember our patch work rotation from that year after the Unit went down featuring starts from guys like Matt Wagner, Bob Wells, Paul Menhart and Edwin Hurtado.

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