What Arbitration Is Like
by Jeff Sullivan on Feb 22, 2010 9:35 PM PST
in Miscellaneous
34 comments
From the Washington Post:
Those who call arbitration hearings just business typically haven't attended one. "Brutal," Bruney called his. "Uncomfortable," Burnett called his. "It does wear on you. You listen to guys belittle you, make you feel like you're invaluable. It's like, '[Damn], these guys really hate me.' But at the same time, too, when your guy is talking it's weird to hear all the praise. The whole situation is awkward."
...
But because the arbitration process also leaves scar tissue -- "a hatefest," said Jason Bergmann... -- very few teams and players end up in battle.
I like how the word they used to censor the worse word is still borderline offensive.
Anyway, nothing groundbreaking in there, but it's a good indication of why this is something teams generally try to avoid. You don't win friends with arbitration.
On the other hand:
"If anything, I think [the hearing] can better you," Bruney said. "Because I know the only bad things they can say about me are things I can fix."
I have no doubt that it's an ugly, hurtful process, but I wonder if there might be a kernel of truth to Bruney's statement. Few things motivate quite like hearing your employer say you're not as good at your job as you think you are.
It would be interesting if arbitration damaged the relationship between player and team while simultaneously making the player a little better.
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"While he may have won two Cy Young awards, we will present data showing that he is
several standard deviations from the average height AND weight of pitchers with comparable service time."
by marc w on Feb 22, 2010 10:54 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I walked into the SABR meeting at the 2009 FanFest.
They had someone from the Mariners talking to them, discussing the case the team was preparing to make if a contract had not been negotiated, and the two parties had to go to arbitration.
It was nasty. I listened to him go on about how unfavorably Felix compares to Cole Hamels before I couldn’t take it anymore and left.
Given what I've heard about hearings,
I’m surprised players even go. Hire the best agent possible, and go to the beach.
I wonder if they're required to attend,
because I can’t imagine who in their right mind would want to go through that.
That said, I bet you’d be curious….
Now that I think about it, it makes some sense...
It seems that a lot of the leverage that a player has in arbitration is the fact that it’s a nasty process, and hearing all those bad things is poisoning the well for the club in terms of ever being on friendly terms with the player.
Teams may rather settle than know that the player is going to hear all those terrible things.
One of the very few favorable traits Bavasi had was his almost stubborn refusual to allow his players to go to arbitration.
FUCK ERIC BYRNES FUCK ERIC BYRNES!
Lots of successful GMs do that
Andrew Freidman, for example. Wait, no.
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Feb 23, 2010 6:11 AM PST up reply actions
"Arbitration" isn't really like the real world meaning of arbitration
Because of the pick one or the other aspect of the process, arbitration is different from the way arbitration occurs in lots of other settings.
In many cases arbitration brings the parties together and attempts to find an amicable solution to the dispute first, and not getting that tries to find a compromise, and then and only then imposes a solution if all else fails. Arbitrators are used in labor disputes between union and management, to keep lawsuits out of court, etc. The goal of finding an amicable settlement doesn’t happen in baseball – it’s all out war from the start, and a bad situation for both sides.
by New England Fan on Feb 23, 2010 5:52 AM PST reply actions
Except for the whole thing that baseball cases rarely go to "all out war" because they work out settlements long before an arbitrator actually gets involved
by seattlebruin on Feb 23, 2010 8:16 AM PST up reply actions
Which arguably is precisely why the process is so harsh and "one side wins all"
It focuses both sides on avoiding what could be an ugly, painful process. If arbitration was all touchy-feely listen-to-both-sides-and-reach-a-compromise it would take forever and it would happen all the time, meaning teams would go into Spring Training every year with at least a couple of players sitting out because they were still in arbitration.
Having arbitration be the thermonuclear option keeps disputes from escalating to that point; the real “arbitration” process happens earlier and without a 3rd party.
I really wonder if part of this discomfort is overblown
due to the fact that we’re talking about people that live in a bizarro sports world and rarely hear negative evaluation that goes beyond “expletive expletive why’d you drop that foul ball?” type of stuff
What makes you think players rarely hear negative evaluation?
I’d bet they hear more negative evaluation in a week than most of us do in 6 months at our jobs. The whole concept behind coaching someone to be better at what they do is to constantly point out their flaws and how to improve on them. Imagine your boss constantly standing over your shoulder telling you what to do better. And that’s just the coaches. Athletes are some of the most publicly scrutinized people in the world. Erik Bedard is a pussy who fakes injuries, Griffey/Sweeney are too old/not good and should retire, Rob Johnson sucks at everything, Yuniesky is the worst player in the majors, Kotchman is a failed prospect, Byrnes/Hall are shells of their former selves, Saunders isn’t good enough to hit major league pitching, Felix is going down the path of Liriano, Snell/Morrow are headcases who’ll never put it together, Bradley is a bad person and bad for team morale, Lopez/Ibanez are lazy/unfocused on defense, Ichiro is a selfish player who only cares about his own stats, Silva is the most overpaid player in baseball, Beltre/Sexson are busts and wastes of money, Figgins is just a slap-hitter who can’t do anything else, Wilson can’t hit his way out of a paper bag but that doesn’t matter anyways because he’s always hurt, etc etc etc. You get the point. Professional athletes are no strangers to heaps of criticism, whether valid or not, coming at them from coaches, talking heads, and complete strangers alike. They get booed and taunted by thousands of people at games, heckled in the streets, and it’s not uncommon for them to require security escorts in less-than-friendly opposing cities. When one of them describes something as a “hatefest” I would probably take their word for it.
by Terminator X on Feb 23, 2010 2:10 PM PST up reply actions
some fair points there
but how many guys truly become lightning rods of negative criticism?
a random middle infielder or RP is probably not going to become the source of a media meme about their flaws
I also think that jock culture pretty strong insulates them against taking criticism from fans seriously. Not saying they all can, but I think they have defense mechanisms built in for it. To a lesser extent, this is also true of media criticism. In an arb hearing those criticisms come from their employer and from inside the industry, which they have also been told for years are the only people who actually know the game at all.
I just think that most non athletes deal with employment related criticisms and failure all the time, all while receiving none of the adulation and praise. A player who has advanced in baseball far enough to be having an arb hearing has been a tremendous success professionally. They’re the equivalent to someone who’s made partner at a law firm or is already the manager or whatever. They’ve beat out 99% of the people they started with in baseball.
by Will McDonald on Feb 23, 2010 4:04 PM PST up reply actions
Most athletes seem to completely discount feedback given by non-peers or managers
why should they care if awesomedude234 on the internet or Crazy Mike on the radio thinks they suck?
Even Ichiro fails two thirds of the time at the thing he does best
Baseball is a pretty humbling sport. It takes a big ego to compensate. Whether the humility or the ego carries over to other aspects of their life probably depends on the player.
"Damn" is borderline offensive?
Where? The Vatican?
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
What was it used as a sensor for?
Sh*t? F*ck? Hell?
Right now I'm dreaming of Carl Crawford. Maybe next year...(or this year at the trade deadline)...
Fuck, most likely.
I think anyone that finds the word “hell” offensive is going to find “damn” equally offensive.
by Terminator X on Feb 23, 2010 3:08 PM PST up reply actions
Yes, the Vatican, among many other places as well.
It’s an expletive with a heavily taboo/negative religious connotation. I personally am not offended by it in the least, but do you seriously not realize that it’s generally considered a swear word?
by Terminator X on Feb 23, 2010 3:07 PM PST up reply actions
I haven't really encountered anyone who thinks so since the 1980s, no.
And then I lived in a rural community where everyone went to church on Sunday.
I didn’t realise there was still a significant minority who was that stuck on religion. Maybe being on the other side of the border has something to do with that.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
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