Today's Fun Fact
by Jeff Sullivan on Feb 16, 2010 11:33 AM PST
in Seattle Mariners Stats
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PrintIn 2004, Carl Everett hit .260/.319/.402 in hitter-friendly environments at the age of 33.
In 2005, Carl Everett hit .251/.311/.435 in a hitter-friendly environment at the age of 34.
In 2006, both Marcel and ZiPS projected Carl Everett for a ~.760 OPS in a hitter-friendly environment at the age of 35. This was good for a wOBA about 4-5% below the league average.
In 2006, in addressing our need for an everyday DH, Bill Bavasi signed Ken Griffey Jr., only with a worse OBP and the complete opposite chemistry potential.
Man, Bill...
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But Bill's projection "system"
always looked back THREE years.
And in 2003 he had a .876 OPS.
So of course Bill thought he would repeat that.
Bavasi Signed Vidro not Griffey in 2006
I’m pretty sure that GMZ signed Griffey in 2009, with an equally bad OPS, but good chemistry potential.
Occupying the Mariner bench in 2006:
Roberto Petagine, he of the 1.008 AAA OPS over more than 2000 trips to the plate.
I was at the park on opening day and called his home run.
That was unfortunately the highlight of Petagine’s Mariner career.
But hey, he’s big in Japan.
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://www.marinersminors.com/
Him and Tom Waits
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Feb 16, 2010 1:10 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Recc'd for getting it.
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://www.marinersminors.com/
by JY on Feb 16, 2010 1:46 PM PST up reply actions
I never realized this.
I guess it’s because my baseball fandom has grown a lot over the last four years (or maybe because I was an air-headed high school sophomore), but I didn’t see that as a horrible decision at the time.
Though I did see the obvious team cancer… The incident he had with the spitting and crotch-grabbing at Moyer, for instance.
I'd sleep at the Internet, but I've found servers don't make for good pillows.
Weren't the available options pretty limited?
Not saying it was a wholly defensible move, but I remember it was pretty slim pickings.
We signed Roberto Petagine at the end of February and he got 32 PAs from Opening Day until July
by Jeff Sullivan on Feb 16, 2010 12:07 PM PST up reply actions
From an old USSM post
Other available DH options at the time of the signing:
Burnitz, Durazo, Hatteberg, Higginson, Jacque Jones, Mad Dawg Matt Lawton, Travis Lee, Tino, Bill Mueller.
In that context, a 1-yr/4MM deal for Everett doesn’t seem like the worst idea. Though a better way to deal with it would have been to either sign a LF and slide Ibanez to DH or go with an “unproven” like Petagine, which goes against Bavasis’ prediliction for experience.
Maybe I find myself in the strange position of half-heartedly defending the move based on what came next.
by waldo rojas on Feb 16, 2010 12:51 PM PST up reply actions
Don't forget who your managers were at the time
Hargrove was done caring and I don’t care how much the M’s faithful loved John Mac, He was a terrible manager. God-awful. Putridly retched. But, Riggleman was no better.
If memory serves, Bavasi essentially worked up a list of options …
… then asked Hargrove which one he liked.
Hargrove replied, “I’ll take Everett”, not realizing that Bavasi was talking about Carl Everett, not Adam Everett. That was when Hargrove knew the season was pooched.
by Steve Nelson on Feb 16, 2010 3:10 PM PST up reply actions
To the best of my recollection, rrue the part that Hargrove selected Everett from a list of options
The team wound up with a list of options. Hargrove may have been part of the process of identifying options. But at some point, Bavasi got together with Hargrove and reviewed what was available. Hargrove said let’s go with Everett.
by Steve Nelson on Feb 17, 2010 3:24 PM PST up reply actions
Why does that context *improve* your opinion of the signing?
In 2006, Hatteberg put up a 109 OPS+ and was paid the tidy sum of $750,000. (It was a one year deal).
Jones made more ($5.8m) but was a good hitter/fielder.
Mueller hit better with the Dodgers.
Lawton was signed by the M’s that year, but was serving a steroid suspension and his body was breaking down.
Basically, what I take from the list is that the M’s got to pick 2 names, and somehow came away with the worst two outcomes.
And yes, this is revisionist history. But the other thing is that all of the other players were more valuable because they played defense. Hatteberg, Burnitz, Mueller – they played in the NL in ‘06. It’s something special to have a need at DH and sign a guy who hits worse than comparably aged/priced position players. So special that, of course, Bavasi did it again the following year with Pepe Vidro.
And we’re all still M’s fans somehow!
Because he was chosen from a pool of old guys/crapshoots/scrubs on a 1 year/low-money FA deal.
Overall, I think it was a bad move but there were so many worse ones that the Everett signing doesn’t even seem that bad to me.
I'm just using the somewhat arbitrary premise that you have to choose from the pool of old/crapshoots/scrubs
and what’s funny is that EVEN WITHIN THAT POOL it didn’t make sense.
I remember sitting around that season, watching all the fail all over the field
and wondering why they didn’t ever play Petagine. Sure he was an unknown, but I’d take an unknown with a good track record in AAA then known, predictable, and soul-crushing failure.
So, you're saying
that there was no one anywhere who was a league average hitter and was available to DH?
Well, you said …
… the options were limited. Then you listed a bunch of free agent alternatives as the options to establish the context.
I don’t think it’s at all unreasonable to infer that you are saying that there weren’t any better alternatives.
by Steve Nelson on Feb 16, 2010 2:24 PM PST up reply actions
The funny thing is, your whoops applies to both your typo and the decision made by the M's
I'd sleep at the Internet, but I've found servers don't make for good pillows.
by thehemogoblin on Feb 16, 2010 12:40 PM PST up reply actions
It feels like yesterday
how pessimistic we were about the Mariners all the time.
2009 Safeco Field Record: 6-0 ; Overall Safeco Field Record: 10-4
There's not as much of a possibility of disappointment when your team
sucks balls.
It could only get better, not much worse.
You could sign up at Royals Review.
It’s like stepping 5 years back in time.
by Steve Nelson on Feb 16, 2010 3:48 PM PST up reply actions
I don't ever want to root for the Mariners to lose games again
2008 was soul-crushing.
by Graham MacAree on Feb 16, 2010 4:25 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Yes
It might have seemed like it was more fun, but that’s because we had to make our own fun to cope with the horrifying pain of watching that team.
I skipped that season.
I'd sleep at the Internet, but I've found servers don't make for good pillows.
by thehemogoblin on Feb 17, 2010 3:48 PM PST up reply actions
I don't ever want to live through 2008 again either.
But I was talking to some Mariner fans last night about how the cool thing about 2008 was that it was literally the worst possible season. The whole year we “joked” about how there wasn’t a floor, and by the last series of the year, everyone knew we were going to sweep the A’s, because that would mean missing out on Strasburg, and that was our luck.
2008 was an awful season, but at least it brought people together + it resulted in a new front office.
Not true.
Not much gets more fun then things like the Felix extension, and the Lee trade. Man those were good days.
Now with more lemon bars!
Silva for Bradley was a pretty fun day too.
Hard work never killed nobody, but I won't take my chances.
I found out about that in a cab!
Also I continually remind my friend, the Phillies fan, about the Lee trade, which still stings months later.
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://www.marinersminors.com/
Never forget
That was probably one of the first gifs that started the trend.
by Edgar for Pres on Feb 16, 2010 7:21 PM PST up reply actions
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